Eileen Nearne, 1921-2010

[Bilge_Rat]

Lest we forget:

Ms. Nearne, her older sister, Jacqueline, and their brother, Francis, were recruited by the Special Operations Executive. In March 1944, Didi Nearne followed her sister in parachuting into France, remaining there, under the code name Agent Rose, after her sister was airlifted back to Britain.


Ms. Nearne, known as Didi, volunteered for work that was as dangerous as any that wartime Britain had to offer: operating a secret radio link from Paris that was used to organize weapons drops to the French resistance and to shuttle messages back and forth between controllers in London and the resistance.

After several narrow escapes, she was arrested by the Gestapo in July 1944 and sent to the Ravensbruck concentration camp near Berlin, a camp that was primarily intended for women, tens of thousands of whom died there.

Ms. Nearne survived, though other women working for the Special Operations Executive were executed in the Nazi camps.

As she related in postwar debriefings, documented in Britain’s National Archives, the Gestapo tortured her — beating her, stripping her naked, then submerging her repeatedly in a bath of ice-cold water until she began to black out from lack of oxygen. Yet they failed to force her to yield the secrets they sought: her real identity, the names of others working with her in the resistance and the assignments given to her by London. At the time, she was 23.

The account she gave her captors was that she was an innocent and somewhat gullible Frenchwoman named Jacqueline Duterte, and that she had been recruited by a local businessman to transmit radio coded messages that she did not understand.

She recalled one interrogator’s attempts to break her will: “He said, ‘Liar! Spy!’ and hit me on the face. He said, ‘We have ways of making people who don’t want to talk, talk. Come with us.’ ”

From Ravensbruck, Ms. Nearne was shuttled eastward through an archipelago of Nazi death camps, her head shaved. After first refusing to work in the camps, she changed her mind, seeing the work assignments as the only means of survival.

In December 1944 she was moved to the Markleberg camp, near Leipzig, where she worked on a road-repair gang for 12 hours a day. But while being transferred yet again, she and two Frenchwomen escaped and eventually linked up with American troops.

Even then, her travails were not over. American intelligence officers initially identified her as a Nazi collaborator and held her at a detention center with captured SS personnel until her account, that she was a British secret agent, was verified by her superiors in London.



http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/22/world/europe/22nearne.html?pagewanted=1&src=ISMR_HP_LO_MST_FB

rest in peace

[frau kaleun]

And they called them the "weaker sex." :doh:

RIP, brave lady. :salute:

[antikristuseke]

That only means women have sex less forcefully than men:D
It is all consensual of course.

Does this rag smell of chroloform to you, by any chance?

[frau kaleun]

That only means women have sex less forcefully than men:D

You really need to get out more. :haha:

[antikristuseke]

I am at work, just got a surprise visit from my boss. Last time he showed up here was 2 months ago, I just got promoted to this sites supervisor, meaning I get to pick the new person that comes to work here when a collegue of mine has to go do his national service, my 4 month trial period ends in two weeks so I suppose things are going well. I may be able to get out more to test that hypothesis of mine:D

[Schroeder]

Wow, that was a brave lady.
Rest in Peace.:salute:

(I think we need a more serious salute smiley. This one isn't too good for occasions like that....:hmm2:)

[antikristuseke]

Crap, forgot to pay my respects to that brave woman.:salute:

[Gerald]

:salute:

[Takeda Shingen]

We thank her for her service.

[Catfish]

Being a spy in a foreign country during a war needs some courage !
Brave woman indeed. Rest in Peace.

Greetings,
Catfish

[Takeda Shingen]

(I think we need a more serious salute smiley. This one isn't too good for occasions like that....:hmm2:)

My friend Rick Sniper always used <S> for salutes of respect.

[SteamWake]

Crap, forgot to pay my respects to that brave woman.:salute:

I was wondering what the heck you were on about.

Anyhow we should all be greatfull for this brave womans life.

I would really like to hear details on her clandestine radio contacts. I bet it would be a fascinating story.

Rest in Peace.

[antikristuseke]

I get distracted easily when at work, it is the abject boredo mof my work, my appologies. No, I am not trying to be sarcastic.

[Bilge_Rat]

yes, very brave woman and as the article points out, she was never quite the same after the war because of her experiences.

One question I have concerns this quote:


the Gestapo tortured her — beating her, stripping her naked, then submerging her repeatedly in a bath of ice-cold water until she began to black out from lack of oxygen.



why is it torture when the GESTAPO does this, but when American interrogators use a similar technique, i.e. waterboarding, it is not torture? :hmmm:

[Catfish]

yes, very brave woman and as the article points out, she was never quite the same after the war because of her experiences.

One question I have concerns this quote:

why is it torture when the GESTAPO does this, but when American interrogators use a similar technique, i.e. waterboarding, it is not torture? :hmmm:


It IS torture. Don't let yourself be fooled by "patriotic" hubbub :stare:

Greetings,
Catfish

[frau kaleun]

why is it torture when the GESTAPO does this, but when American interrogators use a similar technique, i.e. waterboarding, it is not torture? :hmmm:

There is no comparison between what they did and what we do... because "they" are always the bad guys, and "we" are always the good guys, and what the good guys do is always acceptable (unless the bad guys do it, in which case it's just plain wrong).

This is obviously the case, since it's been stated time and time again, by people who are more than happy to do all our thinking for us on this issue, that "We don't torture" - so how could anything "we" do be called that? It just wouldn't be logical!

/sarcasm :damn:

[tater]

Since the nazis actually (routinely) tortured people to death, and everyone knew this, there is all the difference in the world (and the two methods in question are not the same).

If the US does it to you (all 3 guys who were so-treated) you can be confident that they're going to not kill you, or even permanently harm you. When the nazis so much as talked to you, you had no certainty that the conversation would not end with you dead, right there, on the spot.

[Catfish]

And what makes you think that this islamic insurgent "swine" or "sand ******" as he's called by his torturers, is not in fear of dying during his imprisonment ? How can he be sure he's not just waterboarded to death ? This is the whole purpose of torture, mind you, to get information by scaring people to death.

B.t.w. the training of the marines is quite similar to that of the SS, minus being Nazis ;)
Yes i know they're the good guys. The difference is in the moral background.

Greetings,
Catfish

[frau kaleun]

Since the nazis actually (routinely) tortured people to death, and everyone knew this, there is all the difference in the world (and the two methods in question are not the same).

If the US does it to you (all 3 guys who were so-treated) you can be confident that they're going to not kill you, or even permanently harm you. When the nazis so much as talked to you, you had no certainty that the conversation would not end with you dead, right there, on the spot.

So your definition of "torture" only includes situations where you end up dead, or where your death is intended?

Fine, let me strap these electrodes to you. Don't worry, I won't use enough juice to kill you, and I'm telling you ahead of time that I have no intention of causing your death, and I'm convinced that if I'm really careful I won't do you any permanent damage.

So I'm assuming you'll be perfectly fine with me jolting your nuts with as much electricity as I like, as many time as I like, for as long as I like, so long as those conditions are met.

Yeah, right.

[tater]

So your definition of "torture" only includes situations where you end up dead, or where your death is intended?

Fine, let me strap these electrodes to you. Don't worry, I won't use enough juice to kill you, and I'm telling you ahead of time that I have no intention of causing your death, and I'm convinced that if I'm really careful I won't do you any permanent damage.

So I'm assuming you'll be perfectly fine with me jolting your nuts with as much electricity as I like, as many time as I like, for as long as I like, so long as those conditions are met.

Yeah, right.

The GC requires that to be considered torture, it cause "severe" physical or mental harm. That is the definition.

The two techniques described are of course not at all the same (being submerged in water vs having a cloth wetted), but assuming that both nations did "waterboarding" we'd have an equal comparison, so let's downgrade the nazi method described to be waterboarding.

Since waterboarding is NOT lethal done by the US, the GC here is not really in force for physical harm for the US. It IS in force for the nazis, because clearly they'd happily keep pouring until you died.

So in the physical harm category we have the US method NOT ever leaving "severe" physical damage. With the nazis... severe physical damage (death) is quite possible if not likely.

OK, how about severe psychological damage. Here there is certainly a case against it on the US side, we're in agreement. Does it reach the "severe" requirement of the GC? Quite possibly, but then again, the GC was written in an intentionally vague way to allow rough treatment (clearly, or they'd have forbidden ANY harm). What about the nazis? Hmm, since the person being interrogated KNOWS they will kill him without a second thought, the effect of the SAME waterboarding would be FAR more severe mentally. You KNOW they shoot people summarily on the street. You KNOW they torture people to death, wholesale. It then is LIKELY in your mind that they WILL kill you with this.

So, while waterboarding might well be psychological torture, period, it is FAR more likely to reach that benchmark done by people known to torture people to death. Note that Bin Laden's own remarks regarding what AQ could expect as retaliation from the US (pre-9-11) included him saying that the US would likely subpoena them for making an attack. KSM, et al, clearly had a low opinion of US force of will in terms of dealing with them, so I imagine as uncomfortable as the interrogations were, he intellectually did not expect to die.

[krashkart]

I had never heard of this before today. Rest in peace, Eileen. :salute:


And they called them the "weaker sex." :doh:

RIP, brave lady. :salute:

No less brave or powerful than men. :yep:

[Sailor Steve]

Several years ago I played the second PlayStation Medal Of Honor, in which you played the part of a female resistance fighter. I mention it because they included video interviews with several of the 'real things'. It was fascinating watching them talk about their experiences.

In all honesty, knowing myself I will probably forget all about this lady tomorrow, but today I salute her, her bravery, and her service. :rock:

[SteamWake]

I'm fascinated about this clandestine radio thing.

Anyone know of any books/movies that delve into it?

[TarJak]

I'm fascinated about this clandestine radio thing.

Anyone know of any books/movies that delve into it?
Check this one out. Nacy "The White Mouse" Wake's autobiography goes into a bit of detail about how these radios were used.

Check this for pics of some of the equipment they used: http://home.ca.inter.net/~hagelin/WWIIClandestine.html (http://home.ca.inter.net/%7Ehagelin/WWIIClandestine.html)
http://www.duxfordradiosociety.org/restoration/equip/b2/b2.html
There is a bit of techie info about the mini radio receiver's themselves here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/33341759/WWII-SOE-MCR1-Clandestine-Radio-Receiver
http://www.scribd.com/doc/33342244/WWII-SOE-B-MK-II-Suitcase-Radio-Operating-instructions

[bookworm_020]

Check this one out. Nacy "The White Mouse" Wake's autobiography goes into a bit of detail about how these radios were used.

Check this for pics of some of the equipment they used: http://home.ca.inter.net/~hagelin/WWIIClandestine.html (http://home.ca.inter.net/%7Ehagelin/WWIIClandestine.html)
http://www.duxfordradiosociety.org/restoration/equip/b2/b2.html
There is a bit of techie info about the mini radio receiver's themselves here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/33341759/WWII-SOE-MCR1-Clandestine-Radio-Receiver
http://www.scribd.com/doc/33342244/WWII-SOE-B-MK-II-Suitcase-Radio-Operating-instructions


Darn TarJak, you beat me to listing Nacy! Her bike ride was epic!:yep:

[TarJak]

Darn TarJak, you beat me to listing Nacy! Her bike ride was epic!:yep:
All the SOE women and men were the ultra brave. It is hard to imagine now what stress these people had to live under whilst fighting their clandestine war.:salute: This is a potted bio for Nancy: http://www.moreorless.au.com/heroes/wake.html Hers truly was a ride!

[SteamWake]

Check this one out. Nacy "The White Mouse" Wake's autobiography goes into a bit of detail about how these radios were used.

Check this for pics of some of the equipment they used: http://home.ca.inter.net/~hagelin/WWIIClandestine.html (http://home.ca.inter.net/%7Ehagelin/WWIIClandestine.html)
http://www.duxfordradiosociety.org/restoration/equip/b2/b2.html
There is a bit of techie info about the mini radio receiver's themselves here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/33341759/WWII-SOE-MCR1-Clandestine-Radio-Receiver
http://www.scribd.com/doc/33342244/WWII-SOE-B-MK-II-Suitcase-Radio-Operating-instructions

Thanks TJ I will be looking into this when I get the time.

Radios and 'techie' things are one of my interests.

BTW I glanced at the first link and saw caltrops on there :doh:

Pretty funny to see caltrops on a page full of electronic equipment. :haha:

[bookworm_020]

They have done a story on her in the paper here in Sydney.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/the-extraordinary-heroism-of-scatterbrained--eileen--the-spy-who-never-came-in-from-the-cold-20101029-176e1.html

[gimpy117]

That only means women have sex less forcefully than men:D


depends on who is on top. they can get forceful. trust me

[the_tyrant]

:salute::salute::salute::salute::salute::salute:

oh, and regarding the torture.
Unless an effective brain washing method could be created, torture would have to continue

[Herr-Berbunch]

This was the second Agent Rose to pass away this year, the first in March. Respect to all the members of SOE - all of whom were disgracefully kicked out of France at the first opportunity after Germany's capitulation by an embarrassed CDG, only gaining recognition and thanks years later.



So I'm assuming you'll be perfectly fine with me jolting your nuts with as much electricity as I like, as many time as I like, for as long as I like, so long as those conditions are met.

:o:stare::doh::88):rock::dead: How much?

[August]

Oh for Crumps sake. Why don't you people take the arguments elsewhere and quit stinking up a tribute thread to a brave woman?

[Platapus]

yes, very brave woman and as the article points out, she was never quite the same after the war because of her experiences.

One question I have concerns this quote:





why is it torture when the GESTAPO does this, but when American interrogators use a similar technique, i.e. waterboarding, it is not torture? :hmmm:

Because when we do it, it is called "enhanced interrogation". When they do it it is called torture.

When they do it to us, it is called a warcrime

The term hubris comes to mind :yep:

[Platapus]

If you like this sort of history (and I do), check out Sisterhood of Spies by Elizabeth McIntosh.

If you made a movie about these ladies, no one would believe it.

These were some true heroes. Risking all and receiving little or no recognition. :salute:

Even today, there are OSS operatives whose names can not be released. :yep: