DREAM Act, more like the NIGHTMARE Act

[Bubblehead1980]

So that Dems are trying to get amnesty for illegal aliens, young ones at that so they can try to solidify their votes for years to come.

The Dems failed to get their amnesty bill and while they have control and know they won't have control much longer, so they are trying to attach an amendment to a defense spending bill known as the DREAM Act to give amnesty and citizenship just because an illegal joins the US Military.Wrong, on many levels.
Hopefully in this election climate with illegal immigration such as a hot button issue, most Dems who would normally go for this won't let it fly.

So sick of these b****** in D.C. :damn:

[Platapus]

Please share with us, without your usual emotional outbursts, what specifically about the Dream Act you find objectionable.

[TLAM Strike]

Right volunteer to fight and maybe die for the United States even though you are from another nation and not recive any benefits of that service.

Its like the Filipino Guerrillas all over again. :damn:

Only problem I have is that the enlistment should be longer, four or more years like most enlistees. :down:

[Bubblehead1980]

Please share with us, without your usual emotional outbursts, what specifically about the Dream Act you find objectionable.


Just a "side-step" type of amnesty for illegal aliens.Allowing someone, even if they join the military, to become an citizen when they were already breaking the law by just being in the country, is wrong.This is a political ploy by the Dems to solidify the ever growing Latino vote.These young men and women would remember it's a Dem who allowed them to do this and become citizens and would vote Democratic for the most part instead of for who is right.They will always have a loyalty to the Dem Party.


Allowing an illegal who manages to get a degree (who should not be allowed to attend college in US anyway) to earn legal status.For example, some illegal could get in state tuition but a legal out of state student has to pay out of state, that is wrong on many, many levels.I did my undergrad in state because my parents paid for college and wanted to save them money.I am currently in Law School, out of state.The tuition provided to illegal should be reserved for an actualy citizen, not an illegal.

Illegal Immigration would not be a problem if we cut off any incentive for them to be here.

So in the long run, this DREAM Act is more of a NIGHTMARE Act for this country because it just rewards illegal behavior.


Please, the Filipino Guerrillas is different.They were fighting for THEIR own country and aiding us who eventually Liberated them.These people are illegals who do not belong in the US anyway.

[Lord_magerius]

Well chosen on the user name bubblehead by the way :up: It fits perfectly

[razark]

I may be mistaken, but isn't this for illegal immigrants who were brought to the U.S. by their parents when they were age 16 or below?

So rather than creating a slew of folks crossing the border just to enlist in the Army and get quick citizenship in exchange for a cushy job for a few years, wouldn't it deal with the people who were already brought here?


Regarding the in-state tuition, illegal immigrants should definitely not be getting it. Government funded educational institutions should not be open to them, either. However, if a school is privately owned and funded, wouldn't it be their decision who they admit and what rates they charge?

[Castout]

For this I think the illegal immigrants deserve citizenship
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge52hGWudec&feature=spotlight

Without the law no illegal immigrant would have wanted to join the Army why would they?

This may signal a severe shortage in recruits to the Army. Guess the number of people willing to volunteer and join are becoming less and less as the years go by.

[mookiemookie]

This guy makes SUBMAN1 look like a well reasoned political genius. :rotfl2:

[tater]

Serving in the military is a fine trade for citizenship. It's a damn sight more than most do. I'm all for it.

Other than that, I don't think any illegals here should get citizenship at all unless they leave, and reapply (then enter legally) from abroad. I don;t care if they've been here 20 years. Leave, apply, return.

[Zachstar]

So that Dems are trying to get amnesty for illegal aliens, young ones at that so they can try to solidify their votes for years to come.

The Dems failed to get their amnesty bill and while they have control and know they won't have control much longer, so they are trying to attach an amendment to a defense spending bill known as the DREAM Act to give amnesty and citizenship just because an illegal joins the US Military.Wrong, on many levels.
Hopefully in this election climate with illegal immigration such as a hot button issue, most Dems who would normally go for this won't let it fly.

So sick of these bastards in D.C. :damn:

Trying to catch up with Skybird with bigotry?

You think somone who joins the military and has a LIKELY chance of being deployed in combat gives 2 craps about "Solidifying dems"? Your description as such is beyond disgusting.

[CaptainMattJ.]

it doesnt matter what they do, what they call it, how they try to cover up the ugliness, EVERY illegal immigrant is a CRIMINAL. Amnesty of any kind is unacceptable. its Unbelievable the benefits they get. They practically get a free dam pass on everything. Health care without insurance or any kind of payment, college scholarships, no taxes and its like there god dam royalty. its sickening. they bring crime, poverty, disease, degradation of schools and what do we give them? Amnesty!?!?! dam. it doesnt matter who it is, they are ALL corrupt selfish greedy piiiiigs in washington in BOTH parties. The majority of the U.S public dont even WANT to give them amnety, and yet there giving it to them anyway. Its time for us to Sift through this ocean of political correctness and touchy Racial BS and Get to the REAL problem. Mexicans/south american people come here and feast like parasites on this country. And people dont have the BALLS to go and tell them to GET OUT because theyll be branded as "racists" and "bigots". AHAHAHA! you leech off us and WERE racist? THats hilarious! and They have the AUDACITY to protest for Rights and freedom, when theyre NOT citizens and theyre BREAKING THE Law! And all in spanish, nonetheless. You dont GET to enjoy the freedoms of this country because you ARENT part of this country. America has become the most touchy-feely over the top anti racial society. Theyre afraid to tell the Actual specific groups What theyre doing and they cant take action, because theyre too dam scared of being 'Racists". THATS why theyre WINNING. people need to grow some balls and DO something.

[Zachstar]

Ok i'll grow some balls. And call your right out.

Captain Matt Your post is BIGOTED. Hows that?

Disease? WTF is with that? Some twisted logic you designed from reading on how settlers from Europe brought diseases that devastated population of the Natives?

[Skybird]

1.

Illegal immigration is just that: illegal. Politicians, left wealth-redistributors and social know-it-alls ignored it both in content and volume for very long years. In europe, it is a problem printed in capital letters too. And if you follow the poltiical events in europe, you see that the tide of public opinion is slowly shifting. Right parties have emerged from former conservative camps that are not racist or Nazi in themselves, but collect those many voters that got fed up by the former conservatiove parties having shifted into the poltical center and the even the left side of the political spectrum. In Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Holland, nw right-oreinted poltical movements made it in to the parliaments for the first time, often immediatly after they were founded. In these countries they currently can tip the balance in coalition forming. In France, Italy, Poland, strong rightwinged camps, that partially are openly facist (Italy), are part of the poltiial spectrum since long. And with the current debate around Thilo Sarrazin and migration in Germany,, and all conservative heavy-weights having turned their back on the CDU in frustration in recent months, it seesm to be only a question of time before even in Germany a new conservatove party right of the CDU will form up.

And honestly said, I think that is needed. It also is the natural result of career-poltiicans thinking for too long that they can afford to ignore urgent problems with migration, Islam and crime rates, and must not take serious the wide-spread sentiment of the general public that the nation gets lethally damaged by following these leftist policies anymore.

2.

If you join a foreign nation'S armed forces and do a certain ammount of service time, especially in wartimes, then you risk your life for that nation. That could be for two reasons. Either you do it for money only, then you are a mercenary and that nation has no further obligations towards you then to pay your the money that was mentioned in the contract. Or you do it because you feel attracted to that nation for any reason: then risking your life for it really is a strong statement that you make. In that case, after a certain ammount of service time or time spend in wartime action you should be ggrantedc citizenship as a reward indeed. In England they just have had a debate on this issue, regarding the Gurkhas. The service time should not be so brief only that it just serves as an excuse for allowing legalising illegal migration through the backdoor. It really should be a sacrifice in time spent, and risks taken. Sitting two years in a safe garrison inside said nation, is not enough, imo. Having done one or two tours in a hot shooting war, or having spend 8 years or so in a non-fighting unit, sounds more like it. No matter the specifics - you get the idea. The citizenship gained that way, indeed should be deserved, it should be a reward for services done, no investement in advance over hopes that the person maybe in the future will do something valuable for that nation.

3.

However, the recruiting of foreigners for the armed forces nevertheless should be done outside the nation doing it, else the foreigners turn into illegals by entering thta nation and then trying to legalise their status by entering the armed forces. Or better, since I have a problem with active advertsiing and recrutiing for the armed forces, offices should be maintained in other countries where foreigners can enlist. Or they should be able to do it in embassies.

[ETR3(SS)]

I would just like to point out the fact that non-US citizens have joined the US military in the past and worked towards their citizenship while enlisted. Being a natural born US citizen I'm a little sketchy on the details, they could be from US Territories.

[SteamWake]

Well chosen on the user name bubblehead by the way :up: It fits perfectly

You do realize that Bubblehead is a 'slang' term for enlisted submariners. I realize its just a forum name but personally I hold "Bubbleheads" in the highest regard.

This thread is so full of personal attacks. How about addressing the topic at hand?

[TLAM Strike]

I would just like to point out the fact that non-US citizens have joined the US military in the past and worked towards their citizenship while enlisted. Being a natural born US citizen I'm a little sketchy on the details, they could be from US Territories.

They can be from any country not just US Territories.


Qualifications
A member of the U.S. Armed Forces must meet certain requirements and qualifications to become a citizen of the United States. This includes demonstrating:



Good moral character
Knowledge of the English language;
Knowledge of U.S. government and history (civics);
and Attachment to the United States by taking an Oath of Allegiance to the U.S. Constitution (http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/oathofcitizen.htm).

Qualified members of the U.S. Armed Forces are exempt from other naturalization requirements, including residency and physical presence in the United States.
...
Service in Wartime
All immigrants who have served honorably on active duty in the U.S. Armed Forces or as a member of the Selected Ready Reserve on or after September 11, 2001 are eligible to file for immediate citizenship under the special wartime provisions in Section 329 of the INA. This section also covers veterans of designated past wars and conflicts.


Service in Peacetime
Section 328 of the INA applies to all members of the U.S. Armed Forces or those already discharged from service. An individual may qualify for naturalization if he or she has:



Served honorably for at least one year.
Obtained lawful permanent resident status.
an application while still in the service or within six months of separation.

from: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/milcitizens.htm

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes, the topic at hand.....I would venture to guess that the one best path we could offer is citizenship if those here illegally join the military. Monetarly capturing and deporting all illegals is unrealistic. Training those that choose to stay and join the military get not only physcial training but classroom time so they understand what they are fighting for. I see no problem with it.

[Takeda Shingen]

I agree with AVG, but would also add that one of the most frequent arguments levied against illegal immigrants is that they do not contribute to the 'system'. Military service, espeically in these times, is one of the highest form of contribution to America. If one is willing to risk his life in the service of this country, I think it only fair that he be granted a path to legal citizenship.

[AVGWarhawk]

I agree with AVG, but would also add that one of the most frequent arguments levied against illegal immigrants is that they do not contribute to the 'system'. Military service, espeically in these times, is one of the highest form of contribution to America. If one is willing to risk his life in the service of this country, I think it only fair that he be granted a path to legal citizenship.

Absolutely.

[mookiemookie]

Absolutely.

Also agreed.

[SteamWake]

Im just wondering what percentage of the illegal immigrants in this country, you know the ones 'doing jobs americans wont do' would actually enlist as a path to citizenship.

Rather I would think they would dive even further 'below the radar'.

There interists are purely economic not political.

[AVGWarhawk]

Im just wondering what percentage of the illegal immigrants in this country, you know the ones 'doing jobs americans wont do' would actually enlist as a path to citizenship.

Rather I would think they would dive even further 'below the radar'.

There interists are purely economic not political.

True but it is a start. I would suspect a lot would take the opportunity. Besides three hots and a cot those in the service are paid as well.

[Bubblehead1980]

All the personal attacks, why? I have said nothing racist or bigoted.I simply oppose amnesty in ANY form because it gives someone who is a criminal with no respect for my country, a break they don't deserve.This has nothing to do with hispanics, I dislike ALL illegal immigrants, can be a white illegal from the UK or a Mexican illegal etc, if you are here illegally, you do not belong nor deserve any assitance.That is not bigotry, that is called following the law.So lets be men and drop the PC crap, thanks.


SteamWake....I chose the name Bubblehead because I hold it in high regard but again someone uses it for personal attacks because we disagree.Again, people know in essence their argument is wrong so they resort to personal attacks such as accusing me as being a bigot etc.

On a side note....the illegals themselves may not have a political angle but the Dems certainly do.They know they could solidify many votes with this for a long time and instead of trying to have the bill passed on the up and up, they are trying to attach it a defense spending bill.This is the Dems playing politics with our military.

[Bubblehead1980]

it doesnt matter what they do, what they call it, how they try to cover up the ugliness, EVERY illegal immigrant is a CRIMINAL. Amnesty of any kind is unacceptable. its Unbelievable the benefits they get. They practically get a free dam pass on everything. Health care without insurance or any kind of payment, college scholarships, no taxes and its like there god dam royalty. its sickening. they bring crime, poverty, disease, degradation of schools and what do we give them? Amnesty!?!?! dam. it doesnt matter who it is, they are ALL corrupt selfish greedy piiiiigs in washington in BOTH parties. The majority of the U.S public dont even WANT to give them amnety, and yet there giving it to them anyway. Its time for us to Sift through this ocean of political correctness and touchy Racial BS and Get to the REAL problem. Mexicans/south american people come here and feast like parasites on this country. And people dont have the BALLS to go and tell them to GET OUT because theyll be branded as "racists" and "bigots". AHAHAHA! you leech off us and WERE racist? THats hilarious! and They have the AUDACITY to protest for Rights and freedom, when theyre NOT citizens and theyre BREAKING THE Law! And all in spanish, nonetheless. You dont GET to enjoy the freedoms of this country because you ARENT part of this country. America has become the most touchy-feely over the top anti racial society. Theyre afraid to tell the Actual specific groups What theyre doing and they cant take action, because theyre too dam scared of being 'Racists". THATS why theyre WINNING. people need to grow some balls and DO something.


:salute:

[XabbaRus]

If you are wondering why the personal attacks then maybe you should think about the way that you introduce your posts.

They are full of invective and fury not rational analysis. A lot of people agree with you as disagree with you but a lot of how a discussion continues and how people respond stems from the first post. By all means you have a right to be angry at what your government does that you don't agree with and post that here but I think you need to calm it down a little. You are studying law and I hope you don't approach your subjects the same way as you approach things here.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Ok i'll grow some balls. And call your right out.

Captain Matt Your post is BIGOTED. Hows that?

Disease? WTF is with that? Some twisted logic you designed from reading on how settlers from Europe brought diseases that devastated population of the Natives?
Of course they bring disease. its exactly like European settlers. Theyre are diseases ALL around the world that the native population of that area has grown immune to. They bring what THEY'RE immune to and not us, well then they brought a disease over. Way to make uneducated statements.

and either they need to grow a pair or they need to Shed themselves of that Moronic Racial screen. Its become so Sensitive that its basically CONTROLLING us. Cause if we talk about a certain ethnic group and what they do wrong, were racists. Thats unacceptable. We gotta shed that off BACK to where it was, which was basic Nondiscrimination. No hating ethnic groups because of skin color, and allowing them to be a lesser. Not this touchy-feely oversensitive idiocy. we gotta relearn when ENOUGH is ENOUGH and we gotta engrave it in titanium. Were gettin pushed around by other races and im tired of it. If we dont give you that job EVEN though your a terrible worker, then they call us bigots. And thats fine. They can think whatever lies they want. its that we treat them as if they were Special BECAUSE of that that is overboard.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Yea i suppose so. I heard they were talking about making any child that got a GED citizens. THAT is unacceptable. But military service is.......reasonable..grounds for citizenship. Although soon they wont really be risking their lives as much. when we pull out, there isnt going to be very much life risking jobs. Not to say there isnt during peacetime, of course there is, and while the gesture of volunteering for a duty that COULD take your life is good, theres going to be less of a risk then there is now. If youre stationed here, just waiting around its pretty much a kush job.

Military, OK. Anything else? no. No amnesty. your child gets a GED? SO WHAT! i got my GED, wasnt all that hard. And i actually had to PAY for my college. What just because you pass high school, especially with all the unbelievable benefits, you should get a free pass for breaking the law? Thats where most illegals are just gonna stop cold. No college, nothing else to further education. Theyre going to be forced to get jobs where American Citizen TEENS should be able to go to work. Now its all being taken by illegals. How the Hell is a high school grad supposed to pay for college if he cant get a job hes qualified for with his GED. Meanwhile, any ILLEGAL basically gets a FREE PASS to college. Wtf!? they don pay taxes, they bring crime and poverty, they bring high school drop outs and juevinile delinquints. And they DO take jobs that SHOULD BE RESERVED FOR CITIZENS. but of course these corporations are GREEDY PIGS who are RUINING this country. By buying out politicians, screwing over consumers, and Hiring ILLEGALS to work for them because they take a lower wage!? What the hell is gonna happen to A good LAW ABIDING American family that cant find a decent Middle-class wage jobs? theyll slip into POVERTY. so frankly, illegals are PARASITES on this country.

[SteamWake]

Well Mr. Reid tried to slip this little jewl into the defense spending Bill.

Result? Bill by failed by 4 votes.

I dont know if that was the intent to begin with but yea... way to go Mr. Reid. :doh:

[Zachstar]

Bill diddnt fail it diddnt get to a vote because Rethugs did not vote for cloture.

And because of that we will call out rethuglicans on their votes against the military. Keep giving us political ammo repubs!

[GoldenRivet]

rethuglicans

Is this the left's attempt at bipartisanship? I had almost given up hope.

Keep giving us political ammo repubs!

they will... you guys need it so desperately:salute:

[Zachstar]

Our attempts at bipartisanship have been met with nothing but hostility from republicans. Even on their OWN ideas!

[mookiemookie]

Is this the left's attempt at bipartisanship? I had almost given up hope.

I dunno. Is "libtards" the right's attempt at it?

What's good for the goose...

[Takeda Shingen]

It's good to see that respect and maturity are still part of political discussion on SubSim.

[Bubblehead1980]

If you are wondering why the personal attacks then maybe you should think about the way that you introduce your posts.

They are full of invective and fury not rational analysis. A lot of people agree with you as disagree with you but a lot of how a discussion continues and how people respond stems from the first post. By all means you have a right to be angry at what your government does that you don't agree with and post that here but I think you need to calm it down a little. You are studying law and I hope you don't approach your subjects the same way as you approach things here.


I am passionate about this issue.Illegal Immigration is one of the real long term threats to America, economically, culturally, as well as national security wise.My posts have rational analysis, I have stated many times the damage illegal immigration does and how it is wrong to allow criminals to be rewarded or put ahead of actual citizens.I am sure my passion comes across in my posts and that is okay with me.Nothing wrong with actually caring about something that is harming this nation and will harm us much more if we do not get it under control while we can.

The personal attacks are usually from Left wingers who like to pull the race card and say I am being racist, bigoted etc when it is simply not true.I find that highly insulting and aggravating because it detracts from the discussion.

[Bubblehead1980]

Bill diddnt fail it diddnt get to a vote because Rethugs did not vote for cloture.

And because of that we will call out rethuglicans on their votes against the military. Keep giving us political ammo repubs!


Not a vote against the military, vote against Reid and the other sc, eh well Senators trying to stick their political agenda onto a defense bill because they KNOW that a bill with just the DREAM Act or Just a DADT repeal will FAIL.Cynical ploy by Reid who thinks many "middle of the road" or non political types who don't follow politics day to day or don't understand the process will simply think the Republicans voted against money for the military.Majority of Americans are not that dumb, sorry Uncle Harry, try again.

[Zachstar]

The republicans voted against the military bill making their vote anti-military anti-gay and anti-immigrant at the same time.

Democrats will POUND the republicans with that. There is no defense.. No reason. The thugs knew what they were doing and the ads will show it.

Oh I can see the ads now. When democrats go on the offensive they will show America just how insanely right the Republican party under Sarah Palin has become. Thugs claim "moderate" which is laughable considering their most moderate showing "John McCain" went down the drain when they forced him to go further right to appease the nutjobs.

This vote against the Military will haunt repubs this year.

[GoldenRivet]

says you.

fact remains that the democrats sold out American Citizens wholesale.

the November election results will determine how the majority of people view our nation's leadership.

[Zachstar]

I am passionate about this issue.Illegal Immigration is one of the real long term threats to America, economically, culturally, as well as national security wise.My posts have rational analysis, I have stated many times the damage illegal immigration does and how it is wrong to allow criminals to be rewarded or put ahead of actual citizens.I am sure my passion comes across in my posts and that is okay with me.Nothing wrong with actually caring about something that is harming this nation and will harm us much more if we do not get it under control while we can.

The personal attacks are usually from Left wingers who like to pull the race card and say I am being racist, bigoted etc when it is simply not true.I find that highly insulting and aggravating because it detracts from the discussion.

Your posts are full of bigoted remarks. Even when almost everyone here IS for Immigration changes.

Have you not noted how I want a mess of drones on the border as an effective way to catch groups of em? I want TOUGH new measures against companies that hire em. Etc...

But when you claim they bring Disease like something out of a history book. That is crossing the line by any measurement. Diseases get transfered globally due to air and sea travel. That is why there are measures taken to try to combat the effects. Illegal's have NOTHING to do with that. They catch the same crap everyone does. So putting that in there is just about as bigoted as it gets.

I am not DUMB enough to think that illegials will join JUST to get citizenship. JUST to vote only dem. Saying otherwise would be calling military vets mindless and clueless. They will vote on the issues that matter to them just like EVERYONE. If they vote dem it is because Repubs have voted against them or their family's future.

[Bubblehead1980]

Your posts are full of bigoted remarks. Even when almost everyone here IS for Immigration changes.

Have you not noted how I want a mess of drones on the border as an effective way to catch groups of em? I want TOUGH new measures against companies that hire em. Etc...

But when you claim they bring Disease like something out of a history book. That is crossing the line by any measurement. Diseases get transfered globally due to air and sea travel. That is why there are measures taken to try to combat the effects. Illegal's have NOTHING to do with that. They catch the same crap everyone does. So putting that in there is just about as bigoted as it gets.

I am not DUMB enough to think that illegials will join JUST to get citizenship. JUST to vote only dem. Saying otherwise would be calling military vets mindless and clueless. They will vote on the issues that matter to them just like EVERYONE. If they vote dem it is because Repubs have voted against them or their family's future.


First of all I did not say they bring disease, that was someone else.However, since you raised the issue, they can and some do bring disease, as can any immigrants who are not checked.Why do you think people had to be inspected at ellis island ? Europeans brought a ton of disease that killed many of the native populations.I do recall that the current strain of swine flu was said to have originated in Mexico.Hmm wonder how many illegals brought it across the border? Perfectly valid, non bigoted point but certain members like to play the race card to distract from the real issue.All humans spread disease but most illegals are usually poor, uneducated with little access to healthcare so are not going to get checked before crossing.



I rarely actually address illegal mexican immigrants, I am talking about all illegals.All illegals aggravate me, it shows a fundamental disrespect for America, her actual citizens who have a right to be here and our laws.That is my problem.I could care less if you are mexican, chinese, european etc, come here legally and if you dont then you need to go back and should not get anything from the US other than a ride back.

Illegals would join mainly to get citizenship, also college paid for as well as "three hots and cot" in addition to all the other benefits.They would not join to vote Dem but the Dems are pushing this in order to pander to hispanics and the loyalty this would inspire from many who would become citizens, dam the effects on this nation as long as the Dems get to stay in and implement their far left agenda.

Yes the Republican Party will prob not do things in illegal immigrants best interest, you know why? Their job just is to do things in best interest of this country and its actual citizens who have the rights and are entitled, not some illegal.Dems have shown they believe their job is to cater to criminals with things like AZ lawsuit etc.

[Bubblehead1980]

The republicans voted against the military bill making their vote anti-military anti-gay and anti-immigrant at the same time.

Democrats will POUND the republicans with that. There is no defense.. No reason. The thugs knew what they were doing and the ads will show it.

Oh I can see the ads now. When democrats go on the offensive they will show America just how insanely right the Republican party under Sarah Palin has become. Thugs claim "moderate" which is laughable considering their most moderate showing "John McCain" went down the drain when they forced him to go further right to appease the nutjobs.

This vote against the Military will haunt repubs this year.

LOL how can you say that? really?

This was a vote against the attached amendments that should be brought up as their own bill, not piggybacking in to try and force votes.Bravo to the Republicans and Dems who voted against this garbage.

DADT is a good policy and is not bout being anti gay but is about morale which is very important.Everyone I talk to in the military is for the policy.Of course Liberals who know nothing about the military(most of them) are for it because they think the military a good place to try out social engineering.Simple, keep your sex life to yourself and no problem.People know what the policy is when they join, they dont like it, shouldnt have joined.Of course groups always think the rule don't apply to them and that everyone should cater to them:damn:


The DREAM Act provides amnesty and should never be enacted.They deserve nothing but a trip to their country of origin.

[Zachstar]

You must have hated bush with glee when he proposed his plan for immigration.

DADT is on it's way out. That is not social engineering that is reality. And it is silly for you to say that considering that Clinton was the one who enacted it.

[Bubblehead1980]

You must have hated bush with glee when he proposed his plan for immigration.

DADT is on it's way out. That is not social engineering that is reality. And it is silly for you to say that considering that Clinton was the one who enacted it.


I was quite angry with Bush over his proposed policy.

DADT is not as dead as some may think.The policy is about morale.

Clinton enacted the policy as a compromise and I actually approve of that. DADT is a good thing.Morale issue not a civil rights issue.Military is different than civ world.If a civ employer tried to have a DADT policy, I would be against it but military is different.

[Zachstar]

They said the exact same things about African Americans in the military...

[ETR3(SS)]

On the bit about college education, when you enlist you have the option of signing up for the Montgomery GI Bill and it was $50k when I joined and has gone up a little since. Also going off the top of my head here, Congress approved additional educational funding called the Post 9/11 something or other that added an addition $100k of educational funding. I think I still have the info about it here somewhere.

So if an immigrant joins the military (thank you TLAM btw for that info) they are pretty much already getting what Mr. Reid is pushing. So why is this such a big deal? Something stinks and I think it's coming from Mr. Reid.:nope:

[Bubblehead1980]

They said the exact same things about African Americans in the military...


Seriously? That is different.Race and sexual preference are two entirely different things.

I assume you are comparing the intergration of the Armed Forces to homosexuals in the military correct?

[Bubblehead1980]

On the bit about college education, when you enlist you have the option of signing up for the Montgomery GI Bill and it was $50k when I joined and has gone up a little since. Also going off the top of my head here, Congress approved additional educational funding called the Post 9/11 something or other that added an addition $100k of educational funding. I think I still have the info about it here somewhere.

So if an immigrant joins the military (thank you TLAM btw for that info) they are pretty much already getting what Mr. Reid is pushing. So why is this such a big deal? Something stinks and I think it's coming from Mr. Reid.:nope:


The DREAM Act was to give any illegal immigrant who graduated high school and graduated college, amnesty.The illegal could not pay for college I am sure so would go on grants etc paid for by the government on in state tuition taking a legal citizen's place at a college then get amnesty? Beyond screwed up

OR they could join the military, then get all the benefits plus college when they are out.Equally screwed up.

[Zachstar]

Seriously? That is different.Race and sexual preference are two entirely different things.

I assume you are comparing the intergration of the Armed Forces to homosexuals in the military correct?

No they are not completely different. It was called a morale issue back then. "What about the Morale of white men being forced to call a black man his battle buddy or co-pilot or gunner?"

It is the same as today. Pretending that all the sudden that gays will be overflowing in the military or if military men and women will worry more about if their battle buddy is focused on his/her's rear rather than protecting both of theirs.

To be honest it is downright disgusting how our forces are portrayed. After integration before it was not long before people of different races trusted each other with their lives. Saying that suddenly wont happen with DADT repealed is just insulting.

[Tribesman]

Seriously? That is different.Race and sexual preference are two entirely different things.

Not at all, race and sexual preference are both things small minded bigots discriminate over.