U.S. soldiers accused of killing Afghans for sport

[Méo]

Another case...:nope:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/09/us-soldiers-afghan-civilians-fingers

http://www.washingtonpost.com/?reload=true

----

Anyone remember Abu Ghraib ???

Sad but true, war is far from being what it seems. :damn::down::dead:

[Skybird]

"Krieg vertiert." (Egon Bahr)

"Determination and cruelty are two different things." (me :) )

"Carelessness for lives is a sign for detoriating moral and discipline in an army. " (my grandfather, fought in WWII).

If the story is true, committing these murders in times of war inside a warzone means to me they should be courtmartialed and shot. A question of both discipline and principle.

[Méo]

"Determination and cruelty are two different things." (me :) )

Of course.

But I already been in the army (Canadian reserve force) as an officer candidate and I quickly realized there were many ''wackos'' there ...and I quickly quitted.

IIRC there wasn't a lot of ''determined'' people. :-?

(of course I'm not saying those ''wackos'' were all potentially baby killers but...)

[tater]

If true, they need to be prosecuted, and punished as harshly as is allowed (death?).

Same goes for the Ft. Hood shooter.

[Méo]

Same goes for the Ft. Hood shooter.

That's for sure.

There so many cases of mental disorders among the military and so little is done about it. :nope::nope::nope:

[tater]

He did what any good jihadi would have done. Not saying he's not mentally ill, but the Ft. Hood shooting was islam-inspired until he's proved mentally ill (then it's a blend).

[Castout]

I almost wanted to post / discuss this here.

I'd call them *****d up people.

[TLAM Strike]

I am reminded of this dude... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI)

"Carelessness for lives is a sign for detoriating moral and discipline in an army. " (my grandfather, fought in WWII).

I think the word you were intending to use if Morale and not Moral, Sky. Two different meanings caused by a single 'e'. (Darn English Language at it again) Morale can be described as unit cohesion or "fighting spirit", while Moral is determination of right and wrong. :03:

While I agree, just to play Devil's Advocate I would suggest that the army willing to do anything, pillage, burn, massacre and throw away the lives of their own troops, can be quite effective and maybe in fact be the army likely to win.

"In other words, the sailor most likely to win the war is the one most willing to part company with the politicians and ignore everything except the destruction of the enemy." -Capt. Ramsey, Crimson Tide.

[Castout]

except when they started to shoot non enemy :hmmm:

[TLAM Strike]

except when they started to shoot non enemy :hmmm:


[Devil's Advocate]
Non-combatant maybe:
Enemy in disguise.
Part of enemy's infrastructure. (Builds or maintains enemy's industry while not actually fighting).
Demoralizing to the enemy in death. (If particularly gruesome or if treatment of body in some way violates their spiritual beliefs).
Used as trap to lure out or kill real enemy.
[/Devil's Advocate]

[GoldenRivet]

he's a hero...

there ought to be a season on Muslims. :salute:

think we could fit it in some time in late November.

Just my morbid and effed up opinion


J/K

[Méo]

he's a hero...

hmm... who's the hero exactly :06:

[GoldenRivet]

hmm... who's the hero exactly :06:

It was a joke. Nevermind

[Méo]

It was a joke. Nevermind

Ok, sorry, that's just not the kind of things that makes me laugh.

Like the Fallout quote: War, war never changes.

[Blood_splat]

I'm not surprised look at the gangs that were forming in our military.

[Castout]

If soldiers are indiscriminate on whom they attack or kill then they are plainly nothing more than terrorists.

[Skybird]

I think the word you were intending to use if Morale and not Moral, Sky. Two different meanings caused by a single 'e'. (Darn English Language at it again) Morale can be described as unit cohesion or "fighting spirit", while Moral is determination of right and wrong. :03:

You are right, I messed it up, actuallky I thought about the "e", but in the flow of writing obviously decided wrong. It remains to be and always will be a foreign language.


While I agree, just to play Devil's Advocate I would suggest that the army willing to do anything, pillage, burn, massacre and throw away the lives of their own troops, can be quite effective and maybe in fact be the army likely to win.

Indeed, which has be my aregument in past debates. But the killing described in this case, as a sports and entertainment event, imo does not meet the description of contributing to the fighting's cause or securing the mission's objective.

Maybe you remember the Samurai's reasoning, narrated from the off in Kill Bill 1, quite early, after the first fight in the kitchen:

For those regarded as warriors, when engaged in combat, the vanquishing of thine enemy can be the warrior's only concern. Suppress all human emotion and compassion, kill whoever stands in thy way, even if that be Lord God or Buddha himself. This truth lies at the heart of the art of combat.

Although it is a movie in comic style and does not want to deliver philosophic education, that short text is true - my own mentor and teacher taught me like that, too. Point is - he did not left it to that but also taught me some things more.

Launching a war but ignoring the above, imo is simply nothing else but irresponisble, and treachery towards one's own men, and one's own cause.

But the incident described in the news, has nothing to do with these thoughts. That'S what makes it not an act of war, following military needs and military logic, but an ordinary crime undermining the army's morale and discipline. Thus the harsh penalty I would call.


"In other words, the sailor most likely to win the war is the one most willing to part company with the politicians and ignore everything except the destruction of the enemy." -Capt. Ramsey, Crimson Tide.[/QUOTE]

[tater]

If soldiers are indiscriminate on whom they attack or kill then they are plainly nothing more than terrorists.

Terrorism requires a political goal or rationale for the killing. They are psychopaths if they kill for no reason (*besides it's not the policy of the military to kill that way—unlike their enemy who kills like that as SOP).

[Cohaagen]

All too reminiscent of the ear-collecting in Vietnam, and GIs in the Pacific theatre sending Japanese skulls home as trophies.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/AWM_072837.jpg

[Castout]

They are psychopaths if they kill for no reason (*besides it's not the policy of the military to kill that way—unlike their enemy who kills like that as SOP).


Even worse. Glad they've been found out and the media wrote about it.

[Ducimus]

I'm not surprised look at the gangs that were forming in our military.

That i'm sure is part of it.

Or rather.. Gang members that are joining the military. The Army is taking people they never would have previously because of the need for more boots on the ground. That includes people who would have previously been scored too low on their ASVAB for even the army, and those with gang affiliations. Suffice to say, some of the worst elements in our society can be/are enlisting.

Then they take that training and go back to the streets with it. There was some special on it some time ago on National geographic i think. It was pretty disturbing.

edit:

Thought i'd add, that it is easy to lose yourself. You may not think it, but a year can seem like a lifetime. When your in an enviorment doing a job that royally sucks, you live one day at a time, and things from home, seem like a life time ago, and the memory of things "before" being "there", becomes more and more faded. From my own experience, i never saw it ending, even though i counted the days. When my stint was over, i couldn't believe it. I honestly thought i was dreaming, and that i'd wake up on a cott, and still be in some ****ty tent somewhere, smelling that musty ass tent mixed with the smell of diesal, and the hum of generators in the back ground. I was emotionally disconnected, and i disbelieved that "it" was done, i didn't think it would ever end. I couldn't remember when I was born, when xmas was, couldnt remember MANY things.. and I didn't even care.... at all. Things like that just didn't matter to me anymore. I imagine alot of guys go through that. Now toss in someone who already as a propensity for violence..... and well.... there you go.