Britain set to slash its armed forces

[TarJak]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/britain-set-to-slash-its-armed-forces-20100911-155yl.html:damn::damn::damn:

Great idea, save money by putting all that hard earned investment in training onto the dole. Which genius thought this crock up?

[Lord_magerius]

This would be the Tories and their zombie like single mindedness and asshattery in trying to reduce our nations deficit. God bless em, what do I need my money for anyways...

[papa_smurf]

Bah! They hand out the contracts for the new aricraft carriers, start to build the first one, only to discover the whole project could be scrapped!
Yes carriers are expensive, and some say not necessary, but with our current ones getting on, and not to mention the amount of skilled labour it will create (which we need), I say build them - we need a bit of national pride right now.

[Oberon]

In an effort to slash costs, HMS Queen Elizabeth will be powered by the rapid rotational power of Nelsons corpse. :nope:

[bradclark1]

Are they going to enlarge their Reserves or is it a permanent chop?

[krashkart]

The important question is... who will keep us Americans in line now? http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=258&pictureid=2164

Oh wait... :oops:

[Oberon]

I believe the actual spending review comes out sometime within the next month.

At a guess I'd say we'll see the navy take the brunt of it because they're the ones with the most expensive projects on the go right now. The Darings will probably get chopped from six to four, the Astute will go from seven to five, we'll probably lose a Vanguard, either to scrap or conversion to an SSGN and we might lose a QE carrier, probably the Prince of Wales.
The RAF will get a reduction in the Attack squadrons no doubt, but there's not a lot of fat there left to trim so it'll probably be merging of squadrons, or alternately a merger with the Army...that's been talked about I know.
The Army will fare better than most because a) they've already suffered a large share of cuts, and b) they're the most in use force at this time in Afghanistan, so the government can't actually cut back to any major extent on the Army without endangering the Afghanistan mission.

Of course, I could be wrong...in many areas I hope I am wrong, but the writing seems pretty clear on the wall. All part of the governments grand scheme to reduce unemployment and encourage people to get back to work by cutting jobs or forcing companies to cut jobs.

[TLAM Strike]

The important question is... who will keep us Americans in line now? http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=258&pictureid=2164

China? They seem to be the only ones besides Iran and N. Korea not cutting their military budgets these days... :damn:

The Darings will probably get chopped from six to four...

Care to buy some Littoral Combat Ships to bring up the slack? From what I read here (http://www.informationdissemination.net/2010/09/red-flags-everywhere.html) I don't think we are going to want them... :haha:

[Oberon]

I guess we could scrap the carriers and convert the LCS's into carriers... :hmmm:
Now if you could give us the same deal on the F-35s that you gave Israel then we might also be able to get something to fly off them... :yeah:

[XabbaRus]

I've been following this and I think the navy is going to be OK.

Personally I think they could cut a lot of the armoured formations, at least stick the tanks in a shed somewhere.

The Navy will do anything to keep the carriers.

[TLAM Strike]

I guess we could scrap the carriers and convert the LCS's into carriers... :hmmm:
Now if you could give us the same deal on the F-35s that you gave Israel then we might also be able to get something to fly off them... :yeah:

Well if you give us back the tin cans we gave you it might be arranged.

50 old flush deck four stackers might be the only way we get to a 300 ship navy anytime soon.

:O:

[Jimbuna]

I believe the actual spending review comes out sometime within the next month.

At a guess I'd say we'll see the navy take the brunt of it because they're the ones with the most expensive projects on the go right now. The Darings will probably get chopped from six to four, the Astute will go from seven to five, we'll probably lose a Vanguard, either to scrap or conversion to an SSGN and we might lose a QE carrier, probably the Prince of Wales.
The RAF will get a reduction in the Attack squadrons no doubt, but there's not a lot of fat there left to trim so it'll probably be merging of squadrons, or alternately a merger with the Army...that's been talked about I know.
The Army will fare better than most because a) they've already suffered a large share of cuts, and b) they're the most in use force at this time in Afghanistan, so the government can't actually cut back to any major extent on the Army without endangering the Afghanistan mission.

Of course, I could be wrong...in many areas I hope I am wrong, but the writing seems pretty clear on the wall. All part of the governments grand scheme to reduce unemployment and encourage people to get back to work by cutting jobs or forcing companies to cut jobs.

I could have written that almost to the letter myself....it is uncanny in a way because this is precisely my thinking as well http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

The two biggest oxygen thieves curently residing in the UK :nope:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/home/features/d/content/images/2010/05/07/cameron_clegg_inbed_626x260.jpg

[Oberon]

Well if you give us back the tin cans we gave you it might be arranged.

50 old flush deck four stackers might be the only way we get to a 300 ship navy anytime soon.

:O:

Hmmm...I think they're probably still patrolling off the Falklands... :hmmm:

Jim, I hope Xabba is right, we could probably afford to mothball a few Challengers...I mean, we're an island nation after all, short of the Scottish and Welsh getting a bit antsy we need the RAF and Navy for direct home defence...and let's face it, in times like these one has to look at home first and outside of Afghanistan and the Falklands (and perhaps Gibraltar :doh:) we have no overseas territories in direct threat...and even so, once upon a time the RN was enough to keep them in line.
Of course, I think the importance of the RN and RAF wained when we took on the Cold war role in Germany, after all what we needed then was tanks and men to help push back the Soviets, the US had the aircraft and the navy, so we pitched in with a bigger army.
Just my thought anyway, and now that Germany is no longer in danger of being overrun by the Soviets our armed forces still reflect a Cold War status...but that being said, they're coming around after nine years of desert insurgent warfare and we've learnt a lot of lessons along the way...most of them the hard way.

Of course, the other point of view is that in this modern Europe, do we need home defence? Well, the Russians seem to think so otherwise they wouldn't keep playing with it, but the likelihood of a war with Russia is low, as is a war with any of the EU nations. Primarily, our main danger is from homegrown and external based terrorist cells, and you can fight them with a Challenger II MBT, not in Hounslow...you'd never get it through the congestion charge...but I digress. Therefore, what is needed is better police and intelligence services, however, that's on a different budget to the MoD and will no doubt be receiving its own fair share of cuts (Going back to the Ford Anglia police cars? :doh:) but then if we do change our force composition to combat such a force then we'll find ourselves royally up the creek if a conventionally armed nation does come knocking.

Either which way, something is going to give before long, there's not a great deal there to cut, not where they're putting the knife, and what is going to be cut in both the military and in public affairs, is going to hurt not the MPs, not the Lords or the Civil Servants, or even the Bankers...it's going to hurt the other end of the ladder, those who have barely enough anyway, those who are legitimately on benefits who find themselves facing the Stasi at the DSS, those who are told that they need to get back to work or lose money when there are no jobs in the area.

But again, I digress...but it's a bit like being at the top of the drop on a rollercoaster and looking down at the steep drop to come. :doh:

[Tarrasque]

But again, I digress...but it's a bit like being at the top of the drop on a rollercoaster and looking down at the steep drop to come. :doh:


Have to disagree with you there - a rollercoaster is controlled and designed by people who know what they're doing and also is safe.

The UK at the moment isn't :wah:

[bookworm_020]

The way your going, New Zealand will be able to invade you! At least then we might stand a chance of winning the Rugby!

[Bubblehead1980]

Sad to watch a nation with a once great fleet in the circumstances she currently is, hang in there, surely a great leader will come along and remedy the situation.

[Zachstar]

Sad to watch a nation with a once great fleet in the circumstances she currently is, hang in there, surely a great leader will come along and remedy the situation.

What?

What is there to "remedy"? Ships are more and more vulnerable to subs every few years. A failed occupation of Iraq. Not to mention drones stealing the show.

[Jimbuna]

Hmmm...I think they're probably still patrolling off the Falklands... :hmmm:

Jim, I hope Xabba is right, we could probably afford to mothball a few Challengers...I mean, we're an island nation after all, short of the Scottish and Welsh getting a bit antsy we need the RAF and Navy for direct home defence...and let's face it, in times like these one has to look at home first and outside of Afghanistan and the Falklands (and perhaps Gibraltar :doh:) we have no overseas territories in direct threat...and even so, once upon a time the RN was enough to keep them in line.
Of course, I think the importance of the RN and RAF wained when we took on the Cold war role in Germany, after all what we needed then was tanks and men to help push back the Soviets, the US had the aircraft and the navy, so we pitched in with a bigger army.
Just my thought anyway, and now that Germany is no longer in danger of being overrun by the Soviets our armed forces still reflect a Cold War status...but that being said, they're coming around after nine years of desert insurgent warfare and we've learnt a lot of lessons along the way...most of them the hard way.

Of course, the other point of view is that in this modern Europe, do we need home defence? Well, the Russians seem to think so otherwise they wouldn't keep playing with it, but the likelihood of a war with Russia is low, as is a war with any of the EU nations. Primarily, our main danger is from homegrown and external based terrorist cells, and you can fight them with a Challenger II MBT, not in Hounslow...you'd never get it through the congestion charge...but I digress. Therefore, what is needed is better police and intelligence services, however, that's on a different budget to the MoD and will no doubt be receiving its own fair share of cuts (Going back to the Ford Anglia police cars? :doh:) but then if we do change our force composition to combat such a force then we'll find ourselves royally up the creek if a conventionally armed nation does come knocking.

Either which way, something is going to give before long, there's not a great deal there to cut, not where they're putting the knife, and what is going to be cut in both the military and in public affairs, is going to hurt not the MPs, not the Lords or the Civil Servants, or even the Bankers...it's going to hurt the other end of the ladder, those who have barely enough anyway, those who are legitimately on benefits who find themselves facing the Stasi at the DSS, those who are told that they need to get back to work or lose money when there are no jobs in the area.

But again, I digress...but it's a bit like being at the top of the drop on a rollercoaster and looking down at the steep drop to come. :doh:

Rgr that matey.....troublesome times ahead.

The way your going, New Zealand will be able to invade you! At least then we might stand a chance of winning the Rugby!

LOL

Sad to watch a nation with a once great fleet in the circumstances she currently is, hang in there, surely a great leader will come along and remedy the situation.

We once had one....Winston Churchill....fantastic leader in times of war but totally clueless on how to govern during peacetime.

[Oberon]

Have to disagree with you there - a rollercoaster is controlled and designed by people who know what they're doing and also is safe.

The UK at the moment isn't :wah:

Touché....you got me there... :nope::wah::wah::wah::wah:

[mookiemookie]

In an effort to slash costs, HMS Queen Elizabeth will be powered by the rapid rotational power of Nelsons corpse. :nope:

:rotfl2:

[Herr-Berbunch]

If only we'd spent the last 30 years investing in 'local' manufaturing and continuing our once great naval and aviation industries providing jobs all round rather than spending lots of the budgets on CONsultants telling us we need to cut funding on all areas except CONsultants.

It's not tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum's fault - there is a huge hole in the bank account and something's gotta go, but labour pushed through lots of things in their last six months that they knew we couldn't afford - purely to get it cut by the next government which wasn't going to be them, to make them out to be evil-cost-cutting-bastards. Guess what - it worked. The media fell for it, the unions fell for it, and now - it appears - some of the most highly intelligent people on subsim have fallen too :nope:

[bookworm_020]

I feel sorry to see the erosion of the Royal Navy, it has contributed much to shaping the navies of other nations for many years with much foresight and advancement in technology. The RN has suffered much due to the public perception that it was good for defending the British Empire, but with the Empire gone, and Europe being mostly stable (at least to history), it has had a hard time trying to justify it's existence.

In some sense Australia is lucky, due to the vast amount of coastline and a history of unstable neighbours, the defence forces are seen as important part of Australia. The fact that we are doing well economically at the moment means that we can afford to upgrade and expand our navy, army and airforce.
The hardest thing about doing this is finding enough people to man the new ships, subs, planes, tanks and trucks, let alone manning the existing harware!

[Jimbuna]

If only we'd spent the last 30 years investing in 'local' manufaturing and continuing our once great naval and aviation industries providing jobs all round rather than spending lots of the budgets on CONsultants telling us we need to cut funding on all areas except CONsultants.

It's not tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum's fault - there is a huge hole in the bank account and something's gotta go, but labour pushed through lots of things in their last six months that they knew we couldn't afford - purely to get it cut by the next government which wasn't going to be them, to make them out to be evil-cost-cutting-bastards. Guess what - it worked. The media fell for it, the unions fell for it, and now - it appears - some of the most highly intelligent people on subsim have fallen too :nope:

What precisely did Labour push through in the last six months of their tenure that is now planned to be cut?

Surely not the public services in every town and city in the country, state benefits to the most needy in society, the Police, NHS etc. that are about to be decimated....some of those have been around for the best part of a century now (even longer in the case of the Police).

When the full extent of the cuts become public knowledge, April of next year should see unemployment becoming the only growth industry in the UK.

Keep a watchful eye on Clegg during the next Lib-Dem conference when his grass roots mebers see the national outcry against the envisaged cuts and ask why so many of the parties fundamental principles and promises to the electorate were cast aside so he could become Deputy PM.....and after possibly the worst election outcome ever seen by the Lib-Dems (55 seats IIRC)....a pathetic turnout in anyones language.

I accept Labour failed to get things right after 14 years in power but that was because of the in-house fighting for power between the people that made the decisions on the way forward and not enough scrutiny on the policy front.

The aftermath has a potential negative consequence on most of the people in our communities but the bitterist pill to swallow is the realisation that most of the burdon will be born by those least able to afford it.

Rant over :DL

[Oberon]

I do recall a last minute spending spree by Labour, in all fairness, I think one of the points was to do with money spent on schools. Let me check.
Free swimming sessions, a eighty million pound loan to Sheffield steelworks, four hundred and fifty million pounds to North Tees and Hartlepool hospital and a five hundred and fifty million pound 'Jobseekers guarantee', all announced in March 2010, with the election in May.
It was a clever ploy to leave the next government, and let's face it I think Labour had a good idea that as long as Brown stayed at the helm that Labour wasn't getting in, Lib-Dem or otherwise. However, I still think that Tweedledum and Tweedledummer are going to cut a little too deep and cut in the wrong places, industries will be destroyed, not encouraged, unemployment will rise, not fall and public unrest will increase, fueled by the encouragement of the unions, the cuts in public services and attacks on the poor.
The coalition government will fall within, oh, two years, three at the most I'd say, and then we'll see what happens then...if Labour has got their act together, perhaps they'll come back in, or perhaps the Tories will get a firmer stronghold. The voting system may or may not have been reformed so that may or may not effect things.
Either which way, it's going to be a very interesting winter this year...very interesting indeed... :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

money spent on schools


To help the future educational needs of our offspring and to help a construction industry gripped by recession and making thousands of people jobless.....a worthwhile investment IMHO.


Free swimming sessions


To help people fight obecity, improvr their health and fitness and utilise currently underused public leisure services....don't see much wrong in that, surely.

eighty million pound loan to Sheffield steelworks

An investment that will help keep many in work, far cheaper in cost than the damage done to whole communities if the steelworks were to close....remember Corus on Teesside?


four hundred and fifty million pounds to North Tees and Hartlepool hospital and a five hundred and fifty million pound 'Jobseekers guarantee'

I suppose the Tories would object to the above when you consider the cuts soon to be announced regarding the NHS and the resulting unemployment figure rise.

This is as cynical as governments can get....they announce cuts in spending and benefits prior to carrying out their policies that will surely result not only in drastic funding cuts but an inevitable steep rise in unemployment figures.

Why not tax the banks on their vast profits and those that earn the most income or withdraw from Iraq?

I've one serious concern and that is the simple fact that those most in need are going to pay the heaviest price.

[Oberon]

Oh, I never said they weren't worthy causes Jim, heck there's a million and one worthy causes out there...but there just isn't the money for them and there wasn't the money for those. Well, not if you do things the same old government way, that is hit the poor and protect the rich.
You know what I read the other day?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11279763

Yeah, great ain't it? :nope:

[The Third Man]

“MAY THE GREAT GOD, whom I worship, grant to my country and for the benefit of Europe in general, a great and glorious victory: and may no misconduct, in anyone, tarnish it: and may humanity after victory be the predominant feature in the British Fleet.

For myself Individually, I commit my life to Him who made me and may His blessing light upon my endeavours for serving my Country faithfully. To Him I resign and the just cause which is entrusted to me to defend.

AMEN AMEN AMEN”

Lord, Admiral Horatio Nelson


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/HoratioNelson1.jpg/250px-HoratioNelson1.jpg

[Jimbuna]

Oh, I never said they weren't worthy causes Jim, heck there's a million and one worthy causes out there...but there just isn't the money for them and there wasn't the money for those. Well, not if you do things the same old government way, that is hit the poor and protect the rich.
You know what I read the other day?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11279763

Yeah, great ain't it? :nope:

Yeah...absolutely disgraceful :nope:

It must just be a coincidence then that the vast majority of cabinet members in this present coalition government are millionaires :DL

[XabbaRus]

Looks like it is the RAF that is going to get hit.

There are calls to reduce the RAF and merge most of it with the RN or the Army.

Now since the RAF really came from the RNAS that would be ironic.

I do think that the RAF could be slimmed down. Move strike assets to the FAA once the Tornado is retired and go with the F-35. Keep Typhoon for air defence and tactical strike, and maintain the Heavy lift with the RAF.

Transfer all helicopters between the army and the Navy.

Any CAS assets move to the Army just like the US Marines have their own aircraft.

Interesting times ahead.

[Tchocky]

If the RAF can find a buyer for all those excess Typhoons, then it may survive. The Typhoon is a great aircraft, but I can't see it's place beyond a LGB/Brimstone truck and occasional Bear-pusher.
The RAF certainly doesn't need two hundred of them.
I'm not sure what they want with the F-35 either, to be honest. If you want to get a decent warload or range out of it, then stealth is compromised with external stores. If that, why pay for a stealth aircraft anyway?

[TarJak]

It must just be a coincidence then that the vast majority of cabinet members in this present coalition government are millionaires :DLThen they should know a thing or two about saving a pound.:D

[TLAM Strike]

The Typhoon is a great aircraft, but I can't see it's place beyond a LGB/Brimstone truck and occasional Bear-pusher.
The RAF certainly doesn't need two hundred of them.

Kinda a waste to use a Typhoon to shoo away Bears. A BAE Hawk armed with 'winders would be sufficient. :03:

Heck isn't shooting down Bears what the Harrier was intended for! :haha:

[Oberon]

Kinda a waste to use a Typhoon to shoo away Bears. A BAE Hawk armed with 'winders would be sufficient. :03:

Heck isn't shooting down Bears what the Harrier was intended for! :haha:

That and popping up from German forests to drop munitions on Soviet tanks. :03:

[bookworm_020]

I can tell you where all the money saved will be going, to the 2012 Olympics!

That's what happened here in Sydney. The government cut huge amounts out of transport, hospitals, education, infrastructure and so on to pay for the games in 2000 and we're still paying the price 10 years on.

I do have to admit, I had a ball during the 2000 Olympics (was a Torchbearer for the Olympics and Paralympics) and have volunteered for the 2012 games in London. Someone has got to help spend the money you cut from defence, plus, I can scout for a suitable point of attack to take the UK over......:arrgh!:

[TarJak]

The point of attack is the easy bit. Making sure they get rid of most of the army navy and airforce before we get there is the hard part. Oh hang on the Tories are doing that for us.:D

[Oberon]

Advice, don't try the Suffolk coastline, there's still enough munitions left around here from the last war to stop any invasion. :haha:

[Herr-Berbunch]

If all military contracts were scrutinised and corrected before signing then this country would save a fortune - to continually place an order, then realise that nobody is trained on the kit, then hurriedly place an order for the maintenance of said kit, then upgrade to bring it almost into line with some other almost outdated kit... beggars belief, time and time again! :nope:

In fact not just military contracts, ALL contracts that are publicly paid for in any form should be thoroughly completed at first attempt! :nope:

Labour, Tory, Lib-Dems, Green, BNP - doesn't matter which party, they're all as bad as each other in almost every respect. :nope:

[Oberon]

Labour, Tory, Lib-Dems, Green, BNP - doesn't matter which party, they're all as bad as each other in almost every respect. :nope:

This is something I think nearly every single person in the UK will agree with you on.

[papa_smurf]

Someone has got to help spend the money you cut from defence, plus, I can scout for a suitable point of attack to take the UK over......:arrgh!:

Try Derbyshire, its out of the way plus no-one really notice - too busy sheep farming or eating Bakewell pudding:doh:

[Herr-Berbunch]

And I'm all for investment in schools, with my wife being a teacher, but £20m+ to build a school plus continual DfES funding for upkeep as opposed to <£2m per annum upkeep of well-built older schools? Okay, some buildings really could do with some modernisation but not all?

And then there is the whole special needs furore at the minute... grrr!

[Jimbuna]

Labour, Tory, Lib-Dems, Green, BNP - doesn't matter which party, they're all as bad as each other in almost every respect. :nope:

This is something I think nearly every single person in the UK will agree with you on.


Even me :DL

[FIREWALL]

All you guys have all the answers. Why don't you all run for office and fix everything. :DL

[Oberon]

They'd never take us :haha:

[XabbaRus]

We would just sit around in the office all day and squander public money on uber PCs to run Storm of War and have a lolwaffles campaign.

[Oberon]

I wonder if I could stall a Eurofighter.... :hmmm:

[TarJak]

Even me :DL
You're not single Jim!:O:

[Jimbuna]

You're not single Jim!:O:


Hehe :DL

[bookworm_020]

All you guys have all the answers. Why don't you all run for office and fix everything. :DL

Bookworm for Benevolent Dictator!:rock::rock::rock::rock:

[TarJak]

I'll vote for you BW. You gotta be better than the muck we have in power now.:yeah:

[Castout]

Safest and most economical way in the long term for Britain to ensure its security is to move the island

Here

Miles:3459.34 or
Kilometers:5567.11
Bearing:SW



That would place it conveniently within walking distance to New York :haha:
Better start towing . . .

[TarJak]

Safest and most economical way in the long term for Britain to ensure its security is to move the island

Here

Miles:3459.34 or
Kilometers:5567.11
Bearing:SW



That would place it conveniently within walking distance to New York :haha:
Better start towing . . .
The USN might intercept and sink it before it gets there.:haha:

[Castout]

The USN might intercept and sink it before it gets there.:haha:


Not if it can submerge not if it can submerge :haha:

[Oberon]

Well, they did once call us the worlds biggest aircraft carrier. :haha:

[Herr-Berbunch]

Yeah but due to cut-backs, we're now the world's biggest lifeboat :nope:

[Jimbuna]

Not forgetting the biggest begging bowl in Europe.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Not forgetting the biggest begging bowl in Europe.
http://www.londonstimes.us/toons/cartoons/richdiesslin_paypal.gif

[nikimcbee]

Great, now that y'all saving more money, all you UKers can come to the subsim meet!:woot:

[Jimbuna]

Great, now that y'all saving more money, all you UKers can come to the subsim meet!:woot:

My sentiments exactly :yep: