2 Questions.. Returning to base and Torpedoes

[fastfed]

Just when I was about to ask a question about torpedo settings, someone here said "There is no reward to return back to base, just press ESC"


So, I have GWXgold and wondering why I always travel ALL the way back to base, is it true that this is not needed? Just press esc and click end patrol?

There will be no "Dock at <insert base>" option I assume..

Do you guys travel back to base or just press ESC?

THANKS!!

Now to the torps.. For the longest time I was just using auto for my settings, but recently I just realized It seems better to set the depth of my torps to just a meter or so below the ship, sometimes I get it just right or sometimes it still hits the broad side.. Either way, I assume there is more damage from exploding underneath than on the side?

What would the benefit be to use impact vs magnetic? I know one case would be that using magnetic you don't have to get a broad side 90 degree shot, you can shoot at an angle or even head on.

Thanks all!

[ediko]

If I'm honest I don't know about the ESC end patrol... Real Kaleuns didn't have that :)

As for torpedoes yes they do more damage if you set to magnetic and hit the ship on it's bottom. ( was it keel or I'm wrong?) Be careful though since in bad weather the ships can go up and down at about 2~3 meters and I had many duds because of torpedoes hitting at the deflecting surface (or premature explosions) so try to do this only in calm weather (or you can try it if "you're feeling lucky")

[Weiss Pinguin]

1) as far as returning to base goes, that's only true if you're playing below 100% difficulty.

2) yes, firing your torpedo underneath the keel does more damage (and can even break the ship in half), but as far as fuses go, I'd say magnetics are better for less than 90 degree shots since in theory you don't need a direct hit. But impact is more reliable early war.

[frau kaleun]

As WP indicates - if you are playing at 100% realism, you cannot just hit ESC at any time and "teleport" back to base regardless of your current location. You must be within a certain distance of a base to dock there, which is still done by hitting ESC, clicking "Exit Patrol" and then "Dock at [wherever]" even if you're sitting dockside in the pen you originally sailed out of.

At less than 100% realism you can go through that same procedure and exit the patrol without actually sailing back to within minimum required distance of your base.

[Weiss Pinguin]

I think the minimum distance from homeport is 24-30 km, FWIW.

[desirableroasted]

What would the benefit be to use impact vs magnetic? I know one case would be that using magnetic you don't have to get a broad side 90 degree shot, you can shoot at an angle or even head on.

Thanks all!

Impact "simply" explodes against the hull, punching a hole in it. Often that is enough for a small ship, and often (after some hours) for a big one.

A magnetic-pistoled torpedo goes off just below the ship. Physics are not my long suit, but the explosion, aside from the damage it does, creates a vacuum that the water (and the ship) immediately rush to fill. It can easily crack the keel of even a large ship, sinking them in minutes.

Even if it doesn't crack the keel, magnetics seem to cause far more damage and faster sinking.

I always use magnetic if the conditions are right for it (they tend to pop off early in rough seas if fired from a distance). 1) bigger bang, 2) far easier shot to set up.

Useful note: magnetic/impact is not "either/or". ALL torps are set to impact; magnetic is just gravy.

[K-61]

Except, the the impact pistol will not fire if the torpedo runs under the ship and the magnetic pistol fails. My personal preference tends more toward impact pistols than magnetics. If I miss the target I still have the chance of hitting a ship in one of the adjacent columns. Sometimes, though, this has worked against me, as a cheap, closer target takes an eel meant for a more distant and fatter ship. C'est le guerre!

[desirableroasted]

Except, the the impact pistol will not fire if the torpedo runs under the ship and the magnetic pistol fails. I still have the chance of hitting a ship in one of the adjacent columns. Sometimes, though, this has worked against me, as a cheap, closer target takes an eel meant for a more distant and fatter ship.

No, but it's a little bonus that magnetics are armed for impact, too. I've had a (fairly) few gratifying explosions in choppy seas where the torp happened to hit, rather than go under, the target. We take what we can get, right?

They put the cheap targets outside. It helps to make your own list of frequently encountered merchants, rather than relying on the Target Book. Who can keep in their head that a medium cargo runs at 9/2 while a large merchant runs at 8/9, and who has time to fiddle through the book.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Sometimes, though, this has worked against me, as a cheap, closer target takes an eel meant for a more distant and fatter ship. C'est le guerre!
Another advantage to under-keel shots - you can 'skip' torpedoes underneath a ship to hit the target behind it. Provided the closer ship has a shallower draft. ;)

[K-61]

Another advantage to under-keel shots - you can 'skip' torpedoes underneath a ship to hit the target behind it. Provided the closer ship has a shallower draft. ;)

I have used that method. After going through the hassles of getting close to a convoy I have no intention of giving myself away by attacking the small fry on the perimeter. One thing this game forces us to do is think in three dimensions. It's way better than any point and shoot console game. I had one of my brother's friends telling me the other day about some console game and how "realistic" it is. I nearly died of a laughter fit after he told me that "after a minute and a half submerged you have to come up for air."

I don't play games, I play simulations. Games are for kiddies.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Eh, SHIII is a thinking game and great for laidback play, but IMO nothing beats an FPS for stress release (as far as games go that is) :hmmm:

[reignofdeath]

I think he was just refering to the fact that you had to come up for air. I know I myself played both battlestations and found them quite entertaining since they were semi-realistic as far as most things.

And secondly, no matter what way you look at it. your playing a game ;)

if you want real, join the Navy, become a CO and get your own sub ! :P

I have used that method. After going through the hassles of getting close to a convoy I have no intention of giving myself away by attacking the small fry on the perimeter. One thing this game forces us to do is think in three dimensions. It's way better than any point and shoot console game. I had one of my brother's friends telling me the other day about some console game and how "realistic" it is. I nearly died of a laughter fit after he told me that "after a minute and a half submerged you have to come up for air."

I don't play games, I play simulations. Games are for kiddies.

[Tessa]

Magnetic shots at 90 degrees are still effective, generally the best angle is 45 degrees or less depending on the boat. A large boat like a tanker/warship or very large passenger ship (like the Queen Mary) the key is surface area that the torpedo can cover. In a 90 degree shot if you're depth is too low good chance it'll keep going, on a 45 degree it goes across more of the keel and has a longer period to make contact and detonate as the ship goes up and down from the water conditions. Impact setting may be more reliable (depending on the year) though magnetic hits can take down almost anything with a single eel. Biggest ship so far to go down from 1 magnetic hit was the Nelson (35,000 tons) with a shot directly under the middle turret. Once the fuses get fixed they give you the biggest bang for your buck.

[desirableroasted]

Once the fuses get fixed they give you the biggest bang for your buck.

The fuses aren't even broken... and the electrics "keep depth" perfectly fine, no matter what the game instructions say.

So, in stock, you can use magnetic pistols and electric drives from day one.

In GWX, I believe you need to factor the pistol problem back in until mid 1940, though they are still far more reliable than not in my experience. Depth keeping is not an issue in stock or GWX.

[fastfed]

This sucks :(

I wish I never knew I could just hit ESC.. I was so tempted last night.. OVER AND OVER again, I had no ambition to get back to base, I was almost out of fuel, I kept getting radar contacts, all I wanted to do was hit ESC.

I didn't, but Its really ruining this game for me now :( I don't know why they wouldnt award you more renown to get back to port, vs just hitting ESC all the way out in sea..

THIS BLOWS :(

[frau kaleun]

This sucks :(

I wish I never knew I could just hit ESC.. I was so tempted last night.. OVER AND OVER again, I had no ambition to get back to base, I was almost out of fuel, I kept getting radar contacts, all I wanted to do was hit ESC.

I didn't, but Its really ruining this game for me now :( I don't know why they wouldnt award you more renown to get back to port, vs just hitting ESC all the way out in sea..

THIS BLOWS :(

There is a "renown award" in the basic.cfg for returning all the way to base, there's a line for it right after the awards for reaching your patrol grid and for completing a 24-hour patrol there (altho IIRC GWX removes these awards completely unless you mod them back in).

Unfortunately the "return to base" reward just doesn't work (stock bug) and AFAIK nobody has ever figured out how to make it work.

You can always reward yourself for returning to base by editing your career files manually after exiting the game. I'm not sure exactly what has to be edited in which file(s), but somebody else here will know for sure.

[Weiss Pinguin]

If you use SHIII Commander, there's a mod that adds renown for RTB again, and increases the amount as the war goes on.

[ediko]

If you use SHIII Commander, there's a mod that adds renown for RTB again, and increases the amount as the war goes on.

Wait how? I have SH3 commander and I can't find this option. My last few patrols were... lethal. So I really want an award for just returning. DiD is getting annoying :haha:

[Weiss Pinguin]

It doesn't come with SH3 commander, look through the SHIII mods forum for it. Can't remember the name of it ATM, maybe some else does?

[K-61]

I think there's a mod by "WB" or something similar that restores the renown for completing your patrol objective: reaching and patrolling for 24 hours in your patrol zone. That gives you 500 renown. Never heard of a mod which gives you renown for returning to base.

[K-61]

Here it is:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1182

[Weiss Pinguin]

Huh, after looking through the mods forum it looks like you can't actually get renown for returning to base. Guess it's just been a long while since I last played :oops:

[Tessa]

The fuses aren't even broken... and the electrics "keep depth" perfectly fine, no matter what the game instructions say.

So, in stock, you can use magnetic pistols and electric drives from day one.

In GWX, I believe you need to factor the pistol problem back in until mid 1940, though they are still far more reliable than not in my experience. Depth keeping is not an issue in stock or GWX.

Unless you're playing with no duds, the torpedo fuses are severly screwed up; they may keep their depth but were prone to premature detonation or not detonating at all.

"In the days immediately following Norway (Narvik Operation), Donitz collected and meticuosly analyzed tge torpedo firiing data. The skippers had carried out a total of thirty eight attacks: four against battleships, fourteen against cruisers, ten against destroyers, and ten against troop transports. Discounting marginal attacks from long range at high speed targets in poor light or other unfovorable conditions, Donitz concluded that had the torpedo's not failed (yes ALL 38 of the aforementioned struck the targets and failed to detonate), "certain hits" (and probably sinkings or severe damage) would have occured in one of the attacks on the battleships, seven of the cruisers, and five on the transports. In summary, he calculated that about twenty warships and transports had escaped almost certain destruction because of torpedo failures.

Donitz used this damming data to mobilize internal politcal pressure against the torpedo bureaucrats, and he won over Admiral Raeder and the OKM. With the return of good weather to the Baltic , the "Torpedo Dictator" Dr. Cornelius, had been carrying out intensive tests of the impact pistol. The results presented about May1 were "staggerring" and "criminal". Cornelius reported a high rate of failure owing to a poor, overly complex, and clumsy design."

--Clay Blair, Hitler's U-Boat War V.1, pp 156-160

It wasn't until the capture of a ship full of British torpedos where upon inspection the pistol were declared to be fully sound and copied. Afterwards reliable pistol torpedoes were then available.

All this is straight out of history, the book goes even into more detail about how miserable the torpedoes were and how long it was until they were properly fixed, something that is well mirrored in GWX if you're using the Dud torpedoes for realism. Had the torpedoes worked perfectly fine the Narvik operation would have been an outstanding success for the Kriegsmarine which would've sunk several hundred thousand tons worth of shipping, at least 1 capital ship and many mid sized war-ships. If you're getting more than good success rates in GWX with duds on you're a very lucky man.

[Tessa]

It doesn't come with SH3 commander, look through the SHIII mods forum for it. Can't remember the name of it ATM, maybe some else does?

If you want to add back in the renown for reaching, staying at your patrol area for 24 hours, and returning home you need to modify the basic.cfg file as such:

[RENOWN]
RenownReachGridObjCompleted=x
RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted=y
CompletedPatrol=z

For those using SHC add these lines into the static_settings.cfg file:

RENOWN|RenownReachGridObjCompleted=x
RENOWN|RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted=y
RENOWN|CompletedPatrol=z

x,y, and z are whatever amount of renown you want to assign to completing the tasks - they're activated in the vanilla version but GWX (and all other supermods iirc) disables them and sets them all to 0.

[frau kaleun]

That will work for the first two, but the renown for returning to base doesn't work no matter what value you attach to it. IIRC it never worked, even in stock, even though the line is there in the basic.cfg file.

GWX removes the values attached to all three items. Adding them back in will get you renown for reaching your grid and completing the patrol there but not for RTB.

[Weiss Pinguin]

GWX removes the values attached to all three items. Adding them back in will get you renown for reaching your grid and completing the patrol there but not for RTB.
Yeah, I missed that in your earlier post but found it while searching through the mod forum. Forgot about that bug :shifty:

[fastfed]

:( so.. Do you guys return to base? or do you all just hit ESC ?

I returned last night, still knowing I can just hit ESC.. It was hard, but I did it :)


AS for renown.. I was reading a lot of information on this.. I seem to never have enough to get some some cool stuff ( newer conning towers, radars, sonars, decoys )

How do you guys do this? do you just add Renown to cfg file and add what you want, when the year and equipment calls for it? (kind of taking the arcade style of this game out of it)

??

THANKS!

[K-61]

I always return to base; real life captains had to and I try to simulate their careers. Esc'ing to base is gamey and arcadish. As for renown, the higher your difficulty settings, the higher renown you will earn. Editing renown is cheating, but it is possible to do.

[frau kaleun]

I return to base, or within a few hours of it, before exiting and ending the patrol.

I've never edited my renown to reward myself for it. Mostly I do it because I don't want my patrol logs to show me firing my last eel somewhere in the mid-Atlantic one day and being back at base the next day, or even just a few hours or minutes later. And also because sometimes the immersion factor in actually sailing up into a friendly harbor and docking the boat in its pen can be very satisfying.

Typically I have Commander set to start my patrols at sea (which basically "relocates" the coordinates of a home base somewhere outside the harbor proper, away from the docks and other local shipping) but even then I sometimes go right past the relocated "dot" that represents my starting/ending position, and sail up into the harbor anyway before exiting the patrol.

[Pisces]

It ain't over 'til the band plays on the docks!!!

[Draka]

I am a glutton for punishment - I always drive both out of harbor and back in. If nothing else, just for the "eye candy" all the new mods add in to the harbor areas. As for renown - I "cheat" and edit the files. I always equip a "new" boat with all the latest - and simulate what would be available at the flotilla later on IF I live long enough. One of the best things about being in the Wolves at War group is a lot of that is handled by the staff - I merely request items and then get told what is available!

[desirableroasted]

Unless you're playing with no duds, the torpedo fuses are severly screwed up; they may keep their depth but were prone to premature detonation or not detonating at all....

All this is straight out of history, the book goes even into more detail about how miserable the torpedoes were and how long it was until they were properly fixed, something that is well mirrored in GWX if you're using the Dud torpedoes for realism. Had the torpedoes worked perfectly fine the Narvik operation would have been an outstanding success for the Kriegsmarine which would've sunk several hundred thousand tons worth of shipping, at least 1 capital ship and many mid sized war-ships. If you're getting more than good success rates in GWX with duds on you're a very lucky man.

I know the history, and am very happy GWX models it. And I didn't know GWX modeled it until I was told in another thread by Jimbuna.

In my current career (now November 1940, VIIB, GWX, 14 patrols, 270K), I have been using magnetics left and right because I thought there was not any GWX modeling. What I have found is that it still pays off. Even if you factor in "duds," the magnetics are a far better value.

Looking over logs and trying to remember what I fired, I am guessing I have about a 10-15% "dud" rate (that is excluding prematures in choppy seas and my own firing solution mistakes).

Am I lucky? What do you all think?

[Tessa]

I return to base, or within a few hours of it, before exiting and ending the patrol.

I've never edited my renown to reward myself for it. Mostly I do it because I don't want my patrol logs to show me firing my last eel somewhere in the mid-Atlantic one day and being back at base the next day, or even just a few hours or minutes later. And also because sometimes the immersion factor in actually sailing up into a friendly harbor and docking the boat in its pen can be very satisfying.

Typically I have Commander set to start my patrols at sea (which basically "relocates" the coordinates of a home base somewhere outside the harbor proper, away from the docks and other local shipping) but even then I sometimes go right past the relocated "dot" that represents my starting/ending position, and sail up into the harbor anyway before exiting the patrol.

During WWI it was an unspoken protocol to always leave 1 torpedo for the return home, it was uncommon for them to find enough targets to expend them all during their patrol time. After the 160 day South Africa trip of one of the type IX's resulted in only 36,000 tons Donitz was furious and ordered that if hunting grounds were stale and no convoys were to be found to come back home rather than sit out and wait for two or three more weeks and have nothing to show for it. He knew it wasn't the crew's fault, so probability wise was better if things were going horrible boats would be more likely to have better success over a longer period of time with more shorter patrols than fewer extremely long ones.

Until this thread I didn't know you could use esc to warp back to home, always would plan my trips and fuel such that I'd have enough for a round trip ticket.

There's 1 condition that I admittedly modify my renown as imo the game punishes you twice for the same thing - hull damage. Personally I see that it should have no negative effect on your patrol's renown, besides the 3/4 weeks you're required to stay before you can start your next patrol + 1 day per point of damage it can be months before you can take on another patrol; that in itself is punishment enough.

So if I were to return to port with 15% hull integrity left, but have sunk 200,000 tons in the process getting 1,500 renown is just a big fat slap in the face, why bother even trying to return if your ship is that damaged? Though I've never had it happen, if on that same patrol instead of 200,000 tons you only managed to get 20,000 tons would you get negative renown? While each case is subjective, if I crawl home with 44% hull left and 130,000 tons I feel entitled to my full share and compute and edit the delta renown to what its full value would be. Real u-boat captains never got tonnage subtracted from their patrol regardless of what shape their boat was in when they arrived in port, why should we?

[frau kaleun]

I often head for home with one eel left in the stern tube just in case I need it (provided I'm patrolling all that far from home to begin with). But I almost always end up using it before I get there. Targets of opportunity usually pop up in the upper Western Approaches, or in the North Sea on occasion. There's a limit to how far off course I go to chase them, since fuel could be an issue - but if they cross my path and I can get in position without too much of a hassle, I'm going for it.

[Jimbuna]

I know the history, and am very happy GWX models it. And I didn't know GWX modeled it until I was told in another thread by Jimbuna.

In my current career (now November 1940, VIIB, GWX, 14 patrols, 270K), I have been using magnetics left and right because I thought there was not any GWX modeling. What I have found is that it still pays off. Even if you factor in "duds," the magnetics are a far better value.

Looking over logs and trying to remember what I fired, I am guessing I have about a 10-15% "dud" rate (that is excluding prematures in choppy seas and my own firing solution mistakes).

Am I lucky? What do you all think?

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Capt. Morgan]

:( so.. Do you guys return to base? or do you all just hit ESC ?

I returned last night, still knowing I can just hit ESC.. It was hard, but I did it :)...


Getting the boat home again is part of the game for me. A lot can happen on the journey, especially as the war progresses. Like many, I save one torp. for the trip, and pray for good weather so I can use the deck gun - at least in the early war.

...AS for renown.. I was reading a lot of information on this.. I seem to never have enough to get some some cool stuff ( newer conning towers, radars, sonars, decoys )

How do you guys do this? ...Well why not reward yourself with a few hundred points if you take the long way home? That should take some of the sting out of it.

You also receive more renown per sinking as you raise the realism level. You get 100% renown only at 100% realism.

As for what I do, I edit back in any renown costs for major purchases like new subs or upgrades.

[Sailor Steve]

I always sail back into the dock. I love to hear the band playing, especially with randomized marching tunes. The only time I will ever use the 'teleport' button is if my rudder is damaged, as the game doesn't allow for steering with the engines, and that certainly was a last-ditch option.

As for renown, I almost never buy upgrades, so it's not really a problem. I suppose that will change someday, but i'm not too worried about it.

[K-61]

I often head for home with one eel left in the stern tube just in case I need it (provided I'm patrolling all that far from home to begin with). But I almost always end up using it before I get there. Targets of opportunity usually pop up in the upper Western Approaches, or in the North Sea on occasion. There's a limit to how far off course I go to chase them, since fuel could be an issue - but if they cross my path and I can get in position without too much of a hassle, I'm going for it.

You're a girl after my heart! I do the exact same thing. It does break my heart, though, if I use my last torpedo on a runt and then have to sail by a fatter target on the way home. As my English wife likes to say, "The things you see when you don't have a gun!"

[frau kaleun]

"The things you see when you don't have a gun!"

:rotfl2:


I came home once (early war) with one stern eel and used it to take out something - don't remember what, but it was fairly small potatoes - NE of the Shetlands. Then I'm sailing south towards Willy in the deeper water off the coast of Norway when what did I spy with my little eye but a large merchant flying a Union Jack and heading for England.

Fortunately the seas were calm and the weather was beautiful... so I bagged her with the deck gun. :yeah:

[Weiss Pinguin]

Gotta love the deck gun... but that's one reason I love the big IX: so much room for torpedoes. The type VII might be more survivable, but all it takes is one good convoy and several loners to free up all those extra bunks in the torpedo room.

[K-61]

I think it is great that we have frau Kaleuns playing this game. I'm able to tell my wife of them, as she thinks this game is a guy thing. Mainly it is, but it's refreshing to see some ladies like it, too. When I was a teenager I used to play Avalon Hill wargames with my brothers and buddies but I never met any girls who enjoyed them. I always fantasized about a hot chick in short shorts who knew how to handle a panzer korps, but never did meet her.