I was so very very close...

[CaptainMattJ.]

After ficing my mods problem, i installed RFB 2.0 and a few other things. i started a new career in Manila with a Sargo. i put as many skippers on board as i can get and head off. i started heading towards the western part of luzon when sure enough i get contacts. it was one warship extreme range. one then turned into 4. i assumed it was a destroyer and a few gunboats and a subchaser. i TCed and ended up abruptly stopping 20 minutes later when i recieved around 15 contacts. this was no doubt a task force. This early, it HAD to be something big. i used external cam and shot foward12 KM and sure enough, there were 3 battleships, 2 Heavy cruisers, one light cruiser, 8 destroyers and strangely enough a Merchant was in there too. it was anything big, just a lowly small tanker. i believe the battlehisp were......fuso maybe? it was a little odd looking to me. ive seen mostly all of the japanese battleships and i could quite put my giner on these ones.

I immedately abandoned my ourse and turned to an estimated intercept course and dived.

The really rotten part of this story so far? the destroyers saw me already. they sent 2 at first, and i didnt even notice. i tced and was stopped a few minutes later (game time) by me getting shelled by destroyers trying to hit me underwater. They had sent FOUR destroyers. i had NO intention of abandoning this opportunity. they had already pinged me, and since they already knew where i was i pushed to flank and turned hard right. one destroyer was around 400 meters. and my stern tube was a perfect 180 bearing, so i fired. it ran for a few seconds and bounced off them like if it hit a giant rubber band. a dud :nope:. there was a destroyer moving perpendicular and right behind the one i just shot at, giving me another good shot. i fired, but it was mocing too fast. my torpedo fired and had to take a wide turn , and AGAIN bounced off the same destroyer i had just fired at. thats now 0 for 2. i turn hard over, but the destroyer tracked me and ran over me. My scope bashed against it, Hard. It didnt do a dam thing to it, but it killed about 12 men on the bridge, and injured everyone else. however, it didnt drop anything (odd)? i turned and fired another shot at that same destryoer, and it tore it to shreds instantly. Vengence!

i turned again and hit another destroyer, it did nothing instant except make a giant gaping hole. they came around for another run, but STILL didnt drop anything. i turned for another shot and it also only left a gaping hole, no instant effects however. i tced and turned towards their fleet. when i stopped, i looked around and only one destroyer mulled about. it didnt try anything so i set up for another attack. This time however, they sent the other destroyers at me. they tried again, but still diddnt DC me. By then i realized that this was a glitch, so i took advantage of it. i tced again and 1 minute later i get stopped and get reports of taking damage. it started out as one warning, then turned into multiple system hits. i heard Scraping noises of metal on metal, and i look in external and theres NOTHING near me. im not anywhere near shallow water, and no ship was near me. i just took a massive beating from "phantom" damage, which has been happening ALOT lately.

Nothing serious though i again i try to intercept. THe battleships were still 3000 M away and zigging, which meant id have very little chance to attack. i end up catching up to the back, near a Takao HC. i try to go to periscope station, and BOTH scopes are busted. i cant even go into persciope view, much less steup an attack.i fired a few shots based on the last attack i carried out that still stuck in the TDC. They all of course missed. Both scopes were WAAAAY below 1% damage, and yet they couldnt be fixed. terribad damage rep in this game.

The ONLY consolation prize i got was the 3 destroyers i nailed all sank. i cant believe because of this phantom damage i lose 3 battleshisp and a bunch of heavy cruisers :x. heres some screenies of it.


One of the Battleships
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y347/XP51MustangX/Silent%20Hunter%204/sh42010-09-0720-06-43-64.jpg

some of the task force in their neat rows
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y347/XP51MustangX/Silent%20Hunter%204/sh42010-09-0720-06-48-64.jpg


That dam POS destroyer that killed 12 men, 6 of which were officers getting Justifiedly pulverized..

http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y347/XP51MustangX/Silent%20Hunter%204/sh42010-09-0720-20-12-05.jpg


One of the destroyers that took a hit but didnt burst into flames instantly.
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y347/XP51MustangX/Silent%20Hunter%204/sh42010-09-0720-59-13-20.jpg

That same destroyer a little later.
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y347/XP51MustangX/Silent%20Hunter%204/sh42010-09-0720-59-41-47.jpg

[Thrair]

Sounds like ya had a bit of fun, even if the game was acting wierd.



Side note:

This is just a guess (as while I am a history buff in general, my knowledge of WWII naval warfare is limited to general information), but I'd say the reason a tanker was there would be for carrying fuel for the rest of the task force. For the sake of realism.

Not saying they refueled with it while on the ocean, ofc, but it might be to carry the supply of fuel with them to be used when the task force docked at port.

Again, this is just a guess. Someone else on the forums could probably tell you for sure one way or the other.

[Armistead]

Should we count the things you did wrong...:haha:

If you had 12 men killed, sounds like you left men on the DG, AA guns, ect.
You can't leave them there dived as the game still sees them on those stations and a charge will kill them. Place them in the alley or damage crew, but never load your sub with so many men you can't move them from the topside gun stations. If not on the DG, you were just too shallow and they scored a direct hit.

Early war you probably didn't have surface radar and your men have poorer skills. If you have a contact, don't use TC until you have everything figured out. They can hit you with a dozen shells before you get slowed down. Often you can see them, but your men can't.

Instead of fighting escorts at scope depth, I would've dived deep and evaded and saved my torps for the TF if a end around was possible. I'm sure they slowed when you were spotted. Very dangerous fighting multiple escorts, you set up on one the other blast you with a good run.

You didn't get phantom damage. No doubt while using some TC a escort made a run. Even 8% TC under battle you can die and the escort be long gone before you slow down. So with TC you got attacked and the DD had made his pass before you slowed down. It's also possible a plane made an attack on you, happens all the time.

Not sure how many skippers you had, I would think RFB limits officers and you would be very limited anyway at the start of the war.

That was a Kongo.......

[Panser]

...and strangely enough a Merchant was in there too. it was anything big, just a lowly small tanker.


I'd say the reason a tanker was there would be for carrying fuel for the rest of the task force. For the sake of realism.


Although I know little of the specifics of SH4 (yet), I think this is a safe bet on what was being represented in the game. Oilers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oiler_%28ship%29) often sailed with allied task forces and, I believe, occasionally with some convoys too. I guess it would only be natural for the axis to do the same.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Should we count the things you did wrong...:haha:

If you had 12 men killed, sounds like you left men on the DG, AA guns, ect.
You can't leave them there dived as the game still sees them on those stations and a charge will kill them. Place them in the alley or damage crew, but never load your sub with so many men you can't move them from the topside gun stations. If not on the DG, you were just too shallow and they scored a direct hit.

Early war you probably didn't have surface radar and your men have poorer skills. If you have a contact, don't use TC until you have everything figured out. They can hit you with a dozen shells before you get slowed down. Often you can see them, but your men can't.

Instead of fighting escorts at scope depth, I would've dived deep and evaded and saved my torps for the TF if a end around was possible. I'm sure they slowed when you were spotted. Very dangerous fighting multiple escorts, you set up on one the other blast you with a good run.

You didn't get phantom damage. No doubt while using some TC a escort made a run. Even 8% TC under battle you can die and the escort be long gone before you slow down. So with TC you got attacked and the DD had made his pass before you slowed down. It's also possible a plane made an attack on you, happens all the time.

Not sure how many skippers you had, I would think RFB limits officers and you would be very limited anyway at the start of the war.

That was a Kongo.......

1: i read that the game auto placed them in the alley. and FYI, i didnt get DCed. my periscope bashed agains their ship, which still somehow kiled 12 men nd injured everybody else

2: they didnt attack me while on the surface. they tried shelling me at periscope depth.

3: i was planning to dive if it got way too rough. since they never DCed, i didnt dive.

4: this wasnt a run.if you had read more carefully, youdve seen that i said NO destroyers were even close. and besides i got 1 TC the second it started happening though. again, if you had actually read more carefully, you wouldve seen that instead of getting all the damage all at once likke you would in TC, this was gradual over 10 seconds. i heard SCRAPING sound, not any booms or dongs, like youd expect if i hit the ocean floor or get DCed, and again there werent any destroyers nearby. and since it was scraping, it meant that i was scarping against Metal. a look on the external cam showed NOTHING. therefore, this was phantom damage.

And to top it off, the dds never made a run on me.

4: i originally thought it was a kongo, but got it confused with the Fuso so that the ithought the kongo had 6 Dual main batteries instead of 4, therfor i ruled out the kongo.

but whats the other class of battleship? theres 2 jap battleship classes with 6 main batteries. It was the Fuso class and the...what?

[Armistead]

What confused me is you said

"i tced again and 1 minute later i get stopped and get reports of taking damage. it started out as one warning, then turned into multiple system hits. i heard Scraping noises of metal on metal, and i look in external and theres NOTHING near me. im not anywhere near shallow water, and no ship was near me. i just took a massive beating from "phantom" damage, which has been happening ALOT lately."

I assure you no mysterious ghost attacked your sub. Here you say you used TC and implies a minute or so into the TC it automatically came back down because of damage reports. You may not see it, but it's obvious you were attacked why using TC by either a ship or plane.



My bet it was a ship. Believe me in this game using TC why dd's are near will get you killed. You say nothing was near, but obvious you were in battle with DD's and they were around somewhere. This was an attack that happened, as damage just doesn't happen. Just because nothing was near after you came out of TC, doesn't mean it wasn't. Just think a DD making a run at just 12 kts, times 8TC, that could equal 96mph, so he could easily long be gone. It's happened to me many times. Usually I think I've escaped the DD and start using TC. THe DD may have been 3000 yards away, and then whamo, massive damage. Take a look around and the DD may then be a mile away.

You said no need to go dive, I assume you mean go deeper because they weren't dc'ing you. How do you know one won't? Don't trust that. 90% of the time they will and at scope depth you're usually a goner. That's testing fate...

You said this was happening to you a lot. Many complain of this mysterious damage, it simply is not, it's an attack by a plane or ship...

Only BB's I see in the SS are Kongo's...

.just trying to help ya...meant no offense and fight on.

[CaptainMattJ.]

What confused me is you said

"i tced again and 1 minute later i get stopped and get reports of taking damage. it started out as one warning, then turned into multiple system hits. i heard Scraping noises of metal on metal, and i look in external and theres NOTHING near me. im not anywhere near shallow water, and no ship was near me. i just took a massive beating from "phantom" damage, which has been happening ALOT lately."

I assure you no mysterious ghost attacked your sub. Here you say you used TC and implies a minute or so into the TC it automatically came back down because of damage reports. You may not see it, but it's obvious you were attacked why using TC by either a ship or plane.



My bet it was a ship. Believe me in this game using TC why dd's are near will get you killed. You say nothing was near, but obvious you were in battle with DD's and they were around somewhere. This was an attack that happened, as damage just doesn't happen. Just because nothing was near after you came out of TC, doesn't mean it wasn't. Just think a DD making a run at just 12 kts, times 8TC, that could equal 96mph, so he could easily long be gone. It's happened to me many times. Usually I think I've escaped the DD and start using TC. THe DD may have been 3000 yards away, and then whamo, massive damage. Take a look around and the DD may then be a mile away.

You said no need to go dive, I assume you mean go deeper because they weren't dc'ing you. How do you know one won't? Don't trust that. 90% of the time they will and at scope depth you're usually a goner. That's testing fate...

You said this was happening to you a lot. Many complain of this mysterious damage, it simply is not, it's an attack by a plane or ship...

Only BB's I see in the SS are Kongo's...

.just trying to help ya...meant no offense and fight on.

im telling you there wasnt any destroyers. i sunk 3 and the last one was around 8000 METERs (not yards, mind you) and traveling in circles. all other dds were staying in formation. also you cant explain the scraping noises i heard AS i recieved the damage. and also why i took the first damage, then there was a 5 second interval between getting more damage WHILE i heard scraping.

[Armistead]

It was either a DD or a ghost or your game files are fubar ? You'll have to decide.


You get all kinds of sounds when damage is taking place during and after. Usually you get damaged and as more things go wrong, you can hear scraping, banging, hissing as your ship takes more damage. How deep were you...could've been a plane, but I don't think RFB has those deadly TMO planes that can hit you deep. Did you see any planes around?

The issue is, people say this happens alot, most newer players loading harder mods. This is a common complaint, but their are no known bugs that cause this. A few facts are always the same, TC was being used and escorts are in the contact zone....Understand a lot of time can pass using even low TC, crank it up to even the 40's and that's enough time for a DD to sink you and be gone. By the time your PC has read all of that and slowed down enough to give you the damage messages a lot of time has gone by. Another factor is your PC specs and how fast your PC can read and process info.

I've run into mines, but you don't hear them scraping in the game, but mines are rare and you said this happens alot.

If you're sure this is phantom damage happening on it's own, then it can only be one thing, you have mod soup or bad files, but I've never heard of this bug, not that it may not be out there.

Good luck..

[CaptainMattJ.]

It was either a DD or a ghost or your game files are fubar ? You'll have to decide.


You get all kinds of sounds when damage is taking place during and after. Usually you get damaged and as more things go wrong, you can hear scraping, banging, hissing as your ship takes more damage. How deep were you...could've been a plane, but I don't think RFB has those deadly TMO planes that can hit you deep. Did you see any planes around?

The issue is, people say this happens alot, most newer players loading harder mods. This is a common complaint, but their are no known bugs that cause this. A few facts are always the same, TC was being used and escorts are in the contact zone....Understand a lot of time can pass using even low TC, crank it up to even the 40's and that's enough time for a DD to sink you and be gone. By the time your PC has read all of that and slowed down enough to give you the damage messages a lot of time has gone by. Another factor is your PC specs and how fast your PC can read and process info.

I've run into mines, but you don't hear them scraping in the game, but mines are rare and you said this happens alot.

If you're sure this is phantom damage happening on it's own, then it can only be one thing, you have mod soup or bad files, but I've never heard of this bug, not that it may not be out there.

Good luck..
i never said a ghost. i said phantom damage, as in coming from nowhere.

and to clear it up, i didnt mean a minute in real time, i meant a minute Game time. x64 TC is a minute per real second, and i went x8 so thats Eight seconds per minute game time.

there were NO destroyers near to me that couldve come near, dced me, and gotten that far away in 1 minute. so that rules THAt out. there were NO planes, plus we were in the middle of Nowhere. so planes are out. No mines either. i was at periscope depth with over 1000m of ocean below me. this was caused by NOTHING.

and also, sorry to have mislead you, but i didnt mean THIS particular event happens alot. i have been getting bow tube "phantom" damage. of course i think i really did recieve damage, but the systems tab didnt show it. i accidentally bashed into a docking prong, and back up, taking a few systems damage. NOT my bow tubes, according to the system tab. i reverse and try to fire my tubes, all were "too damaged". however this particular anomaly has happened once

[Armistead]

No doubt you can get bow damage and have your tubes totally destroyed and often it will clear out on the damage board, but tubes still destroyed.

You say the damage wasn't serious, do you remember how deep you were and where you were? Very possible it was a plane. You said multiple system damage, but not major, it's possible if you lost your scopes that you lost some other top equipment. I've lost air radar before and not known it and next thing I know why at scope depth with radar up, I get blasted out of the water by planes. How do you know it wasn't a mine. Did you have the cam on your ship when it happened?

Not trying to be an arse with you Cap, just saying you were attacked by something. In this game it's not possible for damage just to happen on it's own, there is a cause, plane, ship, hitting ground, mine, ect...

The only other possibility is you had damage and went too deep. Depends on the boat, but I know RFB use to use more realistic depths, so with minor damage that would limit you even more. You cross that point then one system after the other fails, but I assume you've died this way before and would know how it acts.

Before, I thought this was a major on going issue for you, since it's not, I don't know that I would fret about it. Course I know nothing of RFB, you may want to post there if this becomes a ongoing problem. You may have found a bug not yet found by anyone.

[WernherVonTrapp]

I remember experimenting alot w/external cam when I was playing the stock version. I was trying to learn how the game behaves under various circumstances. One conclusion I came to was that, it's not a good idea for me to TC while any DDs are approaching. I could never resolve why the game behaved the way it did but I noticed that, at TC, for some reason, the incidence of detection by the DDs was increased, even though I had taken all precautions (silent running, no damage control team working, etc.). These experiments often involved saving and replaying the same scenario several times under varying conditions.
As a result, I never TC now when a TF or convoy is first detected. I remember in one scenario, I think it was during the convoy practice mission, I sank quite a few of the merchants, slithered away by the skin of my teeth and once I was (should've been) far enough to stop worrying about the DDs, (somewhere in the vicinity of 9000yds away) I TCed and immediately had the DDs zero-in on my exact location and promptly destroy my boat. Never did figure out how they accomplished that after I managed to gain all that distance undetected.
I don't know if these dynamics carry over into any of the mods but as a rule of thumb (or was it wrist -Boondock Saints), I just don't TC anymore while in the proximity of DDs.
BTW, you external cammed about 12nm? That had to take quite some time, no? I've done the same thing on occasion (though not quite 12nm) but gave up on it due to the time it takes at distance.;):DL

[CaptainMattJ.]

No doubt you can get bow damage and have your tubes totally destroyed and often it will clear out on the damage board, but tubes still destroyed.

You say the damage wasn't serious, do you remember how deep you were and where you were? Very possible it was a plane. You said multiple system damage, but not major, it's possible if you lost your scopes that you lost some other top equipment. I've lost air radar before and not known it and next thing I know why at scope depth with radar up, I get blasted out of the water by planes. How do you know it wasn't a mine. Did you have the cam on your ship when it happened?

Not trying to be an arse with you Cap, just saying you were attacked by something. In this game it's not possible for damage just to happen on it's own, there is a cause, plane, ship, hitting ground, mine, ect...

The only other possibility is you had damage and went too deep. Depends on the boat, but I know RFB use to use more realistic depths, so with minor damage that would limit you even more. You cross that point then one system after the other fails, but I assume you've died this way before and would know how it acts.

Before, I thought this was a major on going issue for you, since it's not, I don't know that I would fret about it. Course I know nothing of RFB, you may want to post there if this becomes a ongoing problem. You may have found a bug not yet found by anyone.
Im telling you this was no plane. and we were literally utoin the middle of nowhere, so mines would be astronomical.i was at Periscope depth, about 18M. we were so remotely far into the ocean that plane would also be VERY VERY unlikely. Mainly because it means there would have to a plane nearby RIGHT then, and itd also have to coordinate attacks with destroyers on pretty much my last known position. since there werent any destroyers near me, the nearest being about 8000m away and me going at ahead 2/3, that their sonar would have a pretty slim chance of finding me actively.

[CaptainMattJ.]

I remember experimenting alot w/external cam when I was playing the stock version. I was trying to learn how the game behaves under various circumstances. One conclusion I came to was that, it's not a good idea for me to TC while any DDs are approaching. I could never resolve why the game behaved the way it did but I noticed that, at TC, for some reason, the incidence of detection by the DDs was increased, even though I had taken all precautions (silent running, no damage control team working, etc.). These experiments often involved saving and replaying the same scenario several times under varying conditions.
As a result, I never TC now when a TF or convoy is first detected. I remember in one scenario, I think it was during the convoy practice mission, I sank quite a few of the merchants, slithered away by the skin of my teeth and once I was (should've been) far enough to stop worrying about the DDs, (somewhere in the vicinity of 9000yds away) I TCed and immediately had the DDs zero-in on my exact location and promptly destroy my boat. Never did figure out how they accomplished that after I managed to gain all that distance undetected.
I don't know if these dynamics carry over into any of the mods but as a rule of thumb (or was it wrist -Boondock Saints), I just don't TC anymore while in the proximity of DDs.
BTW, you external cammed about 12nm? That had to take quite some time, no? I've done the same thing on occasion (though not quite 12nm) but gave up on it due to the time it takes at distance.;):DLpressing SHift+move helps alot with the time it takes.

[Armistead]

I don't know. If you're sure it wasn't a ship, plane, mine, running around, what do you think caused the damage? The only choice is your game files are fubar, but I've never heard of such a bug.

I don't know of anything else to help you figure it out, but if you ever do let us know.

[WernherVonTrapp]

pressing SHift+move helps alot with the time it takes.Ahh, I didn't know that.:doh: Thanks for the tip, Cap.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Ahh, I didn't know that.:doh: Thanks for the tip, Cap.
no problem