Perspective from a complete newbie :(

[poetic hunter]

Alright guys, I hope someone out there reads this thread carefully and understands the point I'm trying to make here.


----------------------------------------

I am not attacking the game. In fact, I am absolutely intrigued by this game and want to learn more. :)

--------------------------------------------

However, this game is not very newbie friendly.

This is even more of an issue because it's very hard for veterans like you guys to understand what I mean by that.

Let me explain:

I have already read many previous threads here including the big sticky thread above for new players.

But one problem still remains: Even though you guys are very helpful, it seems like the help you give makes more sense to a veteran than to a complete newbie. Do you understand what I'm trying to say here? Thus, it is still difficult for a complete newbie to get into this game.




For example, let's start with the academy lesson # 1 Navigation. The video tutorial was practically useless. It took me hours and hours to try to pass that navigation examination (even though it's so simple), and the only way I found a solution was by using information that the in-game help doesn't give you. I had to pay close attention to the radio messages, and do everything just right. I don't know how someone who is a complete newbie could figure out how to finish that navigation tutorial without stumbling across outside help like that.


Now, let's move on to firing the torpedo. That is easy enough in automatic mode. Point and shoot. But when it comes to manually firing the torpedo, the video tutorial was completely useless :doh: . The video guides I found online move so fast and the way they talk it seems like the information they give would make more sense to someone already familiar. But to a complete newbie it is still very confusing.
------------------


Does anyone else understand the point I was trying to make here?

I'm saying that while there is help available, the help seems like it makes more sense to veterans than to complete newbies. That's just not good.

---------------

I am willing to do the dirty work here and learn more about this game (particularly intercepting and manual TCD), and then re-translate it back into a language that complete newbies would be able to understand.

I know how hard it is for a completely new player to dive into this game.

But I would need help to be able to do this translation for newbies. Thus I started this thread. :yep:

[Gerald]

And of course you will get the help you need,what it is now one may be :salute:

[poetic hunter]

And of course you will get the help you need,what it is now one may be :salute:

Thanks for welcoming me. I suppose the first thing to work on would be understanding Navigation, the F5 map screen and how to intercept a moving target. There is a thread called "The Hunt" which is amazing and explains this very well. But it is very technical, and detailed, and it seems to assume that you already posses certain knowledge. Sometimes, it is possible for help to be too detailed.

[U777]

I suggest trying the navel academy. Wilkommen :salute:

[poetic hunter]

I suggest trying the navel academy.


I did...and that's the problem! As I explained in that long post, the tutorial videos are useless, and some of the academy lessons are still difficult to complete for a new player because many things aren't explained at all. There is help available online, but much of it seems geared towards people who are already familiar and not for complete newbies.

[Gerald]

Thanks for welcoming me. I suppose the first thing to work on would be understanding Navigation, the F5 map screen and how to intercept a moving target. There is a thread called "The Hunt" which is amazing and explains this very well. But it is very technical, and detailed, and it seems to assume that you already posses certain knowledge. Sometimes, it is possible for help to be too detailed. and how are you supposed to put up your strategy,here is a link to some of your concerns..


http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=96026

[Snestorm]

Welcome aboard!
I would suggest that you stop "trying to get your feet wet", and just "dive in".
You do, in fact, have a "life preserver", in that you can begin a new carreer following any "fatal" mistakes. Consider it to be your training period, and you have much to learn.

Just select the highest "Realism Level" you feel comfortable with, and start a (training) patrol. Whether you go to the assigned patrol grid, or not, is entirely up to you, as your objective is to learn.

Learning the basics of safe Navigation and Ship Handling should be your primary goal.
I recommend the Weapons Officer as a fine instructor. Ask him to identify the contact, and provide a solution. Use all the information provided in that solution to decide how to avoid a collision with that vessel (if friendly), or how to evade (if hostile). Write down any questions which may arise, and if you haven't stumbled on the answer by the end of the patrol, post the question here.

Raise the "Realism Level", and extend the training patrol length as you see fit. You'll know when you're ready for the real Patrol 1. Experiment. Don't be afraid to make mistakes. That's how we all learned.

(I recommend that you not mod your game before becoming familiar with the stock version, and being able to logicaly form a judgement on what more you do, and don't want out of your game.)

[timmy41]

GWX3 comes with a several hundred page manual, all of which is useful!
dont worry, half the pages are illustrations or space
i read the whole thing before getting in to the game, and i refer back to it very often. read it even if you arent going to use the mod.
its very interesting, even if one would not play the game at all as it has a lot of history in it.
there are many suggested tactics in it that should be ones rule of thumb in many situations.
but most importantly of all, practice! even if you feel like a fool doing it, just get your uboot and navigate the baltic and go in circles and whatnot. get used to the tools. find a neutral ship and learn how to plot it, then find another and submerge and learn how to plot it, then another, and learn how to plot it using the hydrophones!

dont be discouraged if its hard, ive been playing for months and im still only mediocre at gathering target information. i learn a new thing every time i come here, and the odd things i learned here have saved my life more than once!
also, learn the shortcuts to commands, youll just inherently learn them eventually. it makes the game that much easier when you dont have to click on every little thing.



oh and be more aggressive! :P

[HW3]

Welcome poetic hunter! If ever we give an answer that you do not understand, just say so, and we will try again to give an answer that makes sense to you. Remember, we all were newbies once.

:salute:

[flag4]

Alright guys, I hope someone out there reads this thread carefully and understands the point I'm trying to make here.


----------------------------------------

I am not attacking the game. In fact, I am absolutely intrigued by this game and want to learn more. :)

--------------------------------------------

However, this game is not very newbie friendly.

This is even more of an issue because it's very hard for veterans like you guys to understand what I mean by that.

Let me explain:

I have already read many previous threads here including the big sticky thread above for new players.

But one problem still remains: Even though you guys are very helpful, it seems like the help you give makes more sense to a veteran than to a complete newbie. Do you understand what I'm trying to say here? Thus, it is still difficult for a complete newbie to get into this game.




For example, let's start with the academy lesson # 1 Navigation. The video tutorial was practically useless. It took me hours and hours to try to pass that navigation examination (even though it's so simple), and the only way I found a solution was by using information that the in-game help doesn't give you. I had to pay close attention to the radio messages, and do everything just right. I don't know how someone who is a complete newbie could figure out how to finish that navigation tutorial without stumbling across outside help like that.


Now, let's move on to firing the torpedo. That is easy enough in automatic mode. Point and shoot. But when it comes to manually firing the torpedo, the video tutorial was completely useless :doh: . The video guides I found online move so fast and the way they talk it seems like the information they give would make more sense to someone already familiar. But to a complete newbie it is still very confusing.
------------------


Does anyone else understand the point I was trying to make here?

I'm saying that while there is help available, the help seems like it makes more sense to veterans than to complete newbies. That's just not good.

---------------

I am willing to do the dirty work here and learn more about this game (particularly intercepting and manual TCD), and then re-translate it back into a language that complete newbies would be able to understand.

I know how hard it is for a completely new player to dive into this game.

But I would need help to be able to do this translation for newbies. Thus I started this thread. :yep:



...hello poetic hunter.

first, dont panik, dont worry. for example, my son is 10yrs old. and last weekend he took his first command and he is heading out towards BF13. he has no real idea but we are not rushing. at the moment he loves crash diving and i have to remind him to make sure there is enough water under him for this. he will learn as he goes. i have the settings on easy for him. he will start with point and shoot and hopefully BOOOOM. this will increase his confidence. we have watched 'DAS BOOT' the famous u boat film so he has seen a little of what it was like in real life, including depth charging. he thinks he can evade the Destroyers!! ( i like his confidence!!)

so, keep things simple ie; the settings. go about in your boat and get used to the workings of it. dont give up with the naval academy. if you are not too good on one element go to another - i loved the deck gun. and yes the navigation can be strange. my son did it not so long ago and we could not complete it. we did everything it asked, but no (?)

dont try to over achieve. find your learning range and go with that. it will take time for you, but eventually it will come, bit by bit - honestly!!

if my son can begin to learn im sure you can.
ask lots of questions here at Subsim. some one will respond. dont think your question is silly or stupid - there is no such thing.

all the best:salute:

[poetic hunter]

*sigh* Alright then. Guess I'll just ask questions.

First of all. My weapons officer isn't helping me out in the torpedo academy lesson.

He has two options that I can't seem to use.

1.Choosing target. None of them seem to work.

For example, under the target tab, if I click on "Recommended Target" he always says "cannot recommend target." If I click on "Target nearest ship" or "Target nearest merchant" Nothing happens.

2. His "Torpedo attack" tab doesn't seem to work.

If I click on "identify ship" nothing happens. If I click on "Find solution" Nothing happens.

If I click on "Fire torpedo" it shoots out, but it goes waaay off course.


In other words, I'm trying to do assisted torpedo firing, but my weapons officer isn't helping me. Is it because I'm in the academy mode (as opposed to campaign mode)? What's going on?:hmmm:


-------------------

[smilinicon]

the navigation tutorial is quite easy. all you do is follow the radio messages. I guess manual TDC will be out of the question...

[poetic hunter]

the navigation tutorial is quite easy. all you do is follow the radio messages. I guess manual TDC will be out of the question...


See this is why I was afraid that people would misinterpret the thread. Sure, the navigation tutorial is easy...if you know what to do. From the perspective of someone with experience, it's a piece of cake. But Trust me, for someone who has never played the game before, that navigation tutorial is almost impossible to complete without outside help. No where in game does it explain that you have to listen to the radio messages and follow them. There is also a tricky part when it comes to completing objective 2 and objective 4 in that navigation tutorial. They have to be completed simultaneously if I recall correctly, not consecutively like you would expect.

[desirableroasted]

No where in game does it explain that you have to listen to the radio messages and follow them.

I agree that SH3 has a steep learning curve at the beginning.

When you start the Navigation tutorial, you do get a message on the right hand side that states "Follow closely the instructions in the radio messages to complete the exercise." It's also in the Captain's briefing (which you can reach at any later point by clicking "Mission Objectives" from the menu on the left).


There is also a tricky part when it comes to completing objective 2 and objective 4 in that navigation tutorial. They have to be completed simultaneously if I recall correctly, not consecutively like you would expect.

They are sequential. You should take the academy briefings utterly literally. Yes, it makes my eyes roll, too, just as it did back in Navy basic training.

[Snestorm]

@poetic hunter
Forget the academy.
Get yourself set up for a carreer beginning in 1939. This will be your on the job training.
You must Lock your target/contact on one of the periscopes or the UZO (binocular looking thing on the bridge).
Aim it at your target then Left Click on the Lock button.
Next, tell the WE (Weapons Officer) to identify target. (He will).
Tell the WE to give a solution to the target. (He will).
These things will be entered on the notepad, which is on the right of your screen.
(Ship type, range, speed, angle on the bow.)
These are the only two things he will do for you. The other buttons look very impressive, but do nothing. They don't work. There, SH3 is messed up, not you.

OK. Get yourself a carreer, boat, and crew. Take them out on a (training) patrol. Take the boat for a ride some place. Just driving yourself out of the base can be a real learning experience in ship handling!
Let us know how it goes. If your past problems were solved, and any new problems you encounter.

On return, as long as you are within 25 km of your homeport, hit the "escape" key.
LC (Left Click) End Patrol.
LC Dock at XYZ (your port name).

[Mittelwaechter]

SH3 is incomplete, has a very bad documentation and a steep learning curve. The navigation tutorial has an error too.

Not the best premise for a newbie to get into the game.

Choose one teacher and follow his advice, I'd recommend Snestorm. If he fails to give proper advice 25 guys will show up and correct his comments. :DL

Don't be shy to ask simple questions - no one will take the mickey out of you.

[Pisces]

Poetic Hunter, you have a point in that the manual and Academy tutorial missions and movies could use some improvements. We all wish them. However Ubisoft has left SH3 'as it is' many years ago. There simply is no way to solve this without 'experienced knowledge' from other players. And forums like Subsim are the simplest and cheapest ways (well maybe not for Uncle Neal ;) ) to get it across. I suppose it's possible to create replacement academy missions that requires no a priori knowledge. But those would come in the form of mods, a community generated 'patch'. Personally I think it is more likely that a new player is going to search for and find 'the proper steps to do' in the forum, rather than consider adding modified files before he has any idea how the game works.

If you feel that the community generated tutorial videos, documents and tutorial-threads are not clear enough for a beginner, then please say which. Or better, write a request for additional clarification in their respective threads. But do realize some of those threads are many years old. The original writer may not be around anymore. Or just can't be bothered for various reasons.

[Jimbuna]

Welcome poetic hunter! If ever we give an answer that you do not understand, just say so, and we will try again to give an answer that makes sense to you. Remember, we all were newbies once.

:salute:

Precisely....simply ask and we will do our best to enlighten you.

NONE OF US IS AS CLEVER AS ALL OF US


http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/welcome.gif

[Herr-Berbunch]

Welcome aboard :salute:

There is not a friendlier forum out there, ask and ye shall receive (but try searching first :rolleyes: )

We look forward to your tales of derring do in hunting down the convoys, but mostly we're looking forward to your tales of hitting the harbour walls as you embark on a mission - we have ALL done that, probably more than once too :har:

[Sailor Steve]

WELCOME ABOARD! :sunny:

Mr. "I don't know anything but I'm very patient" (that's me) is here to help. I understand that even the simplest things can be confusing sometimes, mainly because I'm simple myself.

I would invite you to PM me with any problems, but I'd also like to keep everything out in the open so anyone else who happens along can see each step.

STEP 1: Navigation. First rule of learning: In the SH3 game folder are two files labeled SH3_QRC_PG1 and SH3_QRC_PG2.

PG1 shows you all the in-game hotkeys, which keys to push to make things happen. This will become second nature in time, but when you are playing these are also available by pressing the 'F1' key.

PG2 shows the keyboard layout, including what each key combination does.

There is also a manual in there. It is pretty much useless, but it doesn't hurt to give it a look anyway, since any question you have will be answered here.

When in the Navigation tutorial, the radio messages will tell you to click on certain functions, and will also tell you which hotkeys duplicate those functions. At the bottom right of the screen are three dials. One is the depth guage. You click on it to set your depth when the message says "Go to 25 meters". When it says "Go to periscope depth", just press the 'P' key. Another guage is the engine telegraph. It is the one that is divided into sections with funny names like "Kleine Fahrt". You don't have to memorize the names, just note that there are five of them forward and four reverse, and they translate as "Ahead Slow", "Ahead 1/3", "Ahead Standard", "Ahead Full" and "Ahead Flank". You can click on them, or press keys 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.

That's pretty much all you need to know to earn an "Excellent" in the Navigation Class. Practice that one and ask anything you don't understand, and then we'll move on to the next one.

[Hangman]

Hey, count me in on this action, I wanna play too.

I like your idea Poetic Hunter regarding a tutorial for the absolute newbie beginner. I have never played SHIII yet. I bought the game about a month ago and have just barely (over the Labor day weekend) loaded it onto my laptop. Unfortunately, I've run into a little snag trying to update it to v1.4b so I can't even get the mods on it yet.
<uh oh, long story coming on ... trying to resist>
I've read enough to claim a five credit hour course stretching months worth of work from an accredited university. But my schedule only allows me an hour or two a week to mess with this. So I can read all about it, but I can't participate much. Hopefully this coming weekend I'll get the v1.4b update and the mods going. From all I've read, I'm going to bypass the stock SH3 and go straight for GWX3.0 to start. I've worked out a 10 year plan so I should be good for sub work for a while. In five years I will pull GWX off and load Living SH3 v5, it sounds like a really good mod too.

I'm anticipating the starting of a career and hopefully by the first weekend of October I can begin. They say, "in a classroom setting, the teacher always learns the most"; I'd love to help in writing a newbies crash course on how to start this game, but I'm afraid my schedule would hold everyone back, much like the convoy can only go as fast as the slowest ship.

So don't fret. I'm sure I'll see you out there on the vast expanse and stop you for some helpful information.

Lemme think here; 52 weeks (weekends) in a year, two hours a weekend will give me 104 hours. A 60 day patrol could take ... what, 12 hours on 8x speed.?. That's 12*2 = 24 weekends ... I should be able to get two whole patrols done in a years time. If I can manage to last the entire war, I'd need the whole 10 year plan just on GWX3.0, but given the odds of history, I should only last until 1941-42. That's do-able. :D :yeah:

By the way, keep the questions rolling. I can learn from these and so - in five years - I won't be asking questions regarding SH III and these guys here are working with SH VIII.

[Sailor Steve]

I bought the game about a month ago and have just barely (over the Labor day weekend) loaded it onto my laptop. Unfortunately, I've run into a little snag trying to update it to v1.4b so I can't even get the mods on it yet.
If you only bought it a month ago odds are it's already patched to 1.4b and Starforce-free. You should be good to go.

In five years I will pull GWX off and load Living SH3 v5, it sounds like a really good mod too.
I've been playing the game for five years - since its release - and have never finished a career, due to starting over with new mods. I'm currently setting up muliple installs using MultiSH3, one each with GWX, LSH3 and WAC.

I'm anticipating the starting of a career and hopefully by the first weekend of October I can begin. They say, "in a classroom setting, the teacher always learns the most"; I'd love to help in writing a newbies crash course on how to start this game, but I'm afraid my schedule would hold everyone back, much like the convoy can only go as fast as the slowest ship.
I consider myself to be a poor writer, but years of experience being unable to grasp certain concepts has left me with a unique perspective: I'm willing to explain things bit-by-bit in excruciating detail, as I did in my previous post. So I'm more than willing to lay it out that way, but if my explanations can be simplified by someone else, that's cool too. :sunny:

Lemme think here; 52 weeks (weekends) in a year, two hours a weekend will give me 104 hours. A 60 day patrol could take ... what, 12 hours on 8x speed.?. That's 12*2 = 24 weekends ... I should be able to get two whole patrols done in a years time. If I can manage to last the entire war, I'd need the whole 10 year plan just on GWX3.0, but given the odds of history, I should only last until 1941-42. That's do-able. :D :yeah:
Don't forget the extra time it will take to run the actual attacks, which require running in normal time, sometimes for hours on end. On the other hand the best TC for cruising is 128x, so that helps.

Why are we whispering? :O:

By the way, keep the questions rolling. I can learn from these and so - in five years - I won't be asking questions regarding SH III and these guys here are working with SH VIII.
I tend to run multiple careers at the same time, so it takes me forever to progress from one year to the next. So I'll be playing them all seemingly forever. So yes, ask any questions.

If I don't know the answers, I'll make 'em up! :D

[Hangman]

If you only bought it a month ago odds are it's already patched to 1.4b and Starforce-free. You should be good to go.


I just learn't that today, thanks. Hopefully this coming weekend I'll move on to installing the mods, which by the way, I'm having issues with JSGME. Who would I talk to about changing the default 'mods' directory ?


Don't forget the extra time it will take to run the actual attacks, which require running in normal time, sometimes for hours on end. On the other hand the best TC for cruising is 128x, so that helps.

Why are we whispering? :O:


Not whispering, ... talking to myself quietly. One of the sure signs of insanity. Most all uboat captains suffer from this, especially those who's schedule don't allow sufficient time on the high seas.

You're right, I didn't figure in the time running an attack and only half the time to leave the scene afterwards.
I thought I had read a post somewhere suggesting with GWX3.0, you not run TC over 8x as it causes some mishaps in the career.?.

[poetic hunter]

These are the only two things he will do for you. The other buttons look very impressive, but do nothing. They don't work. There, SH3 is messed up, not you.


SH3 is incomplete, has a very bad documentation and a steep learning curve. The navigation tutorial has an error too.

Not the best premise for a newbie to get into the game.



Ah..I see. So the game does have some bugs and a few functions that don't work as intended. That's good to know ! It would have saved me some hours of frustration, if I knew this before.


Thanks for the encouragement, guys. :yeah: I will take Snestorm's advice and just start a career. I will use the career mode to learn more about the game, and help me with that tutorial I intend to write later on for complete beginners.

And if I run into serious snags, I will run back here with my tail between my legs.

[poetic hunter]

:88) Ran into a problem already.

Does the Weapons officer make mistakes with Torpedoes? Or am I the one making mistakes?

Tell me where I'm going wrong:


Step 1: I press F3 and go to periscope, I raise the periscope and turn around. I see different ships. Some have a green arrow, some have a yellow arrow and some have a red arrow. What is the difference between these arrow colors?

Anyway, I pick a ship with a yellow arrow on it, and it's automatically identified as a cargo merchant. I then press Tab to zoom in, then I press lock to lock on to it.


Step 2:

I go down to the weapon officer and click on torpedo attack, then I click on identify,and find solution.

Step 3:

I click on hatch number 1 to open it, then I press fire. Do I have to stay on the F-3 periscope screen after I fire a torpedo?




Step 4:

The torpedo goes straight out of my sub's front. Whereas the target was off to the side. :-?

In other words, a complete miss.

Where did I go wrong?

----------------------


(I also notice that I always miss whenever I use hatch number 5. Is there something special about torpedo hatch 5?)

[Convycmg]

Hatch number 5 is your stern tube (on a Type VII u-boat). It points out of your rear end, whereas your hatches 1-4 are your forward tubes. For your stern tube you need to line up your boat so that your stern is facing where your WO calculates the ship you want to hit will be.

[Convycmg]

In fact sounds like a more general point about torpedo gyro angles would help you out, going by what you said, though there are many here that would do a far better job at it than me!

The gyro angle is the amount your eel has to turn itself when you fire it in order for it to intercept the target. Zero degrees is ideal; that is you've calculated that the target ship will be directly in front of you at the time your toprpedo will find it so you simply fire your shot directly ahead (for your front tubes; for your rear tubes the ship will be passing directly BEHIND you at the point of impact). Anything more than about 5 degrees of gyro angle is problematic, which is why if you aren't aware that tube five points backwards you will never hit with it. Any poor torpedo you fire at a ship in front of you would have to make a massive turn in order to meet the target.

Also remember that at the point of impact your torpedo should hit the target ship as close to a 90 degree angle as possible or it will sheer off she hull instead of detonating. You can check this kind if thing early on as long as you have the event camera enabled. It's all about angles :D

[desirableroasted]

:88) Ran into a problem already.

Does the Weapons officer make mistakes with Torpedoes? Or am I the one making mistakes?

Tell me where I'm going wrong:


Step 1: I press F3 and go to periscope, I raise the periscope and turn around. I see different ships. Some have a green arrow, some have a yellow arrow and some have a red arrow. What is the difference between these arrow colors?

Anyway, I pick a ship with a yellow arrow on it, and it's automatically identified as a cargo merchant. I then press Tab to zoom in, then I press lock to lock on to it.


Step 2:

I go down to the weapon officer and click on torpedo attack, then I click on identify,and find solution.

Step 3:

I click on hatch number 1 to open it, then I press fire. Do I have to stay on the F-3 periscope screen after I fire a torpedo?




Step 4:

The torpedo goes straight out of my sub's front. Whereas the target was off to the side. :-?

In other words, a complete miss.

Where did I go wrong?

----------------------


(I also notice that I always miss whenever I use hatch number 5. Is there something special about torpedo hatch 5?)

What's happening is that you are "losing lock", which will screw up your approach.

I would do things pretty much the opposite.

Let's assume calm, Academy weather... (there is plenty of advice about how to approach in bad weather on these forums).

0) Targets out there. Green means a good shot for impact torps, Yellow means very iffy, Red means impossible. (Magnetic pistolled torps are a different breed, stick to impact for now).

HOWEVER: the game assumes you are going to use tube 1, which is a forward tube. If you want to use tube 5 -- the rear -- click on it and the triangle will change accordingly. But see below.

1) Identify the target. It has a draft of 6 meters? OK...

2) Go to TDC. Click on Tube 1, set your depth to 3 meters, since you are going to make an impact shot. Set your I/M (Impact/Magnetic) switch to I. Set your Torp speed to the highest.

3) Hit Q to open your tube. This is very important; failure to do so delays your shot by several seconds, long enough to ruin your shot.

4) Angle the boat so that you are pretty much perpendicular to the target. We call this "AOB" and, again, there's pages of material about approaches here on the forum.

5) Go to your scope or uzo and "lock" the target. Fire (later you will learn to nuance your shots, but for now just shoot on lock).

These are the bare bones basics. Hope it helps.

[Draka]

For the real simple answer - green means a pretty good firing solution - torpedo los! Yellow is very iffy - only gonna work if the target does something stupid like turn into yer eel's path - work towards green. Red is forgetta-bout-it - no go. Like firing your stern tube at a ship on yer bow - ain't gonna happen.

[Pisces]

...
2) Go to TDC. Click on Tube 1, set your depth to 3 meters, since you are going to make an impact shot. Set your I/M (Impact/Magnetic) switch to I. Set your Torp speed to the highest.Not your (Uboot) depth! The depth of the torpedo run!

[poetic hunter]

What's happening is that you are "losing lock", which will screw up your approach.

I would do things pretty much the opposite.

Let's assume calm, Academy weather... (there is plenty of advice about how to approach in bad weather on these forums).

0) Targets out there. Green means a good shot for impact torps, Yellow means very iffy, Red means impossible. (Magnetic pistolled torps are a different breed, stick to impact for now).

HOWEVER: the game assumes you are going to use tube 1, which is a forward tube. If you want to use tube 5 -- the rear -- click on it and the triangle will change accordingly. But see below.

1) Identify the target. It has a draft of 6 meters? OK...

2) Go to TDC. Click on Tube 1, set your depth to 3 meters, since you are going to make an impact shot. Set your I/M (Impact/Magnetic) switch to I. Set your Torp speed to the highest.

3) Hit Q to open your tube. This is very important; failure to do so delays your shot by several seconds, long enough to ruin your shot.

4) Angle the boat so that you are pretty much perpendicular to the target. We call this "AOB" and, again, there's pages of material about approaches here on the forum.

5) Go to your scope or uzo and "lock" the target. Fire (later you will learn to nuance your shots, but for now just shoot on lock).

These are the bare bones basics. Hope it helps.


UPDATE: I followed the advice here and managed to sink a yellow target ship from the rear using torpedo 5 ! :)

Thanks for that.

Many questions remain, however.

One: What do you mean by draft of 6m? And

Two: Why did you tell me to set the depth to 3? How was that number determined?


Three: When I did the Aob, I basically averaged it. I just temporarily put it on manual and twisted the ship to where it sort of looked perpendicular. Not very precise at all, but it worked somehow. Is this ok for now or should I delve into the complex intricacies of making it precise ? :o

[Gerald]

it is good if you do not have obvious attack periscope longer a need to Avoid detection by other ships as DD or the vessel you have been meaning to sink..

http://imgur.com/UjWSs.jpg


This is only a small example,how it would look like in a given situation :yep:

[Tessa]

Regarding the Academy, though the navigation is screwed up it still gets you somewhat familiar with the keys used for navigation. Long as you can accomplish the objectives (whether you credit for them or not isn't really important) is the important part, getting used to the controls. Unless you're suicidal DON'T do the Flak exam, its unforgiving and general rule of thumb is to avoid attacking planes at all costs and dive to escape em.

Until you're comfortable with everything else I wouldn't think of trying manual targeting (lot of experienced players don't use it either) till last. There's a number of good GUI's out there to help with manual targeting if you really want to tackle that.

The learning curve is steep and harsh, its better to set realism low (like 25% or less) so you can stay alive longer and not have to worry about too many things at once (like fuel consumption or CO2 content) so you can focus on learning how to play. Once you cross the hump and get familiar the rewards are worth the effort, there's no shame in starting out easy to learn the game.

[K-61]

Another good idea is to install stock SH3, do the academy and then install a mod like GWX. That way, the flak exercise in the academy is not so unforgiving. In any event, it is not necessary to run the academy exams in GWX as you get 1500 renown to play with at the beginning. This way you will get to learn how to handle the flak guns without getting killed right away. Once you are in GWX, avoid tangling with planes unless you are forced to; even then, I do not man the guns myself as I suck at it. My boat's gunners do a better job than me. They fended off three passes by a Hudson last night. The reason I didn't dive was because I was surfaced and reloading externals. The game allows you to simply suspend the reload, but I simulate the time it would take to dismantle the external gear before diving. I took some damage, but the my flak gunners managed to send the Hudson away with smoke trailing from its port wing. I tell you, I was terrifed seeing that thing diving on me, machine guns blinking rounds which zinged around my head. He must have been a rookie pilot as we did not take any crew casualties and only minor damage which took a couple of hours to repair [I have the longer repair times mod installed.]

[Obersteuermann]

UPDATE: I followed the advice here and managed to sink a yellow target ship from the rear using torpedo 5 ! :)

Thanks for that.

Many questions remain, however.

One: What do you mean by draft of 6m? And

Two: Why did you tell me to set the depth to 3? How was that number determined?
Well done on the sinking! :)

I know very little about manual targeting (I'm new too!) but I can answer your first two questions:

1. A ship's draft is how much of her lies below the waterline.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Ship_length_measurements.png

The blue line shows where the waterline is on the ship's hull. Dimension d on the lower picture is the draft. Its main importance to us is figuring out the best point on the target's hull to fire the torpedo into.

http://www.ship-technology.com/projects/mscpoesia/images/1-msc-poesia-in-dry-dock.jpg

Have a look at the contours on that hull. Most ships in SH3 are similar: the hull is more or less vertical near the waterline but curves more and more as you go down towards the ship's keel. Our torpedoes' fuses (impact fuses - magnetics are a separate topic) work best when they hit at 90 degrees to a flat surface. When they hit at shallower angles, or hit a curved surface, the odds of the fuse failing increase very rapidly. So, it follows that if you set your impact torpedoes to run too deep, they'll hit the target's hull but won't explode.

2. 3 metres is a fairly "safe bet" for impact torpedoes - I'm afraid it's one of those things you learn from experience! You can experiment with your own torpedo running depths by looking at your ship recognition manual (in Attack Periscope view, F3 - it's the brown book at bottom left) and looking at the contours of ships' hulls which are shown in there. You can also use the external view and the event camera to learn a bit about your targets' contours.

[Convycmg]

Draft: it's a measure of how far below the waterline the ship goes. A draft of six metres means the very bottom of she ship is six metres below the waterline. You can find the draft values for each ship in the recognition manual. Small nible ships like destoyers and corvettes might have a draft of only one or two metres, whereas a big old tanker or battleship might have a keel far more than 10 m below the waterline.

The further below the waterline you hit with your torpedo the more damage you will do, so you will want to check the draft of the ship you are targeting and set your torpedo depth appropirately. You will DEFINITELY want to view your shots through the ecternal 'event camera' when figuring this out, as if you set your eel too deep, it won't impact a flat surface at 90 degrees and will just bounce off when using an impact pistol to detonate your torpedo.

Knowing the draft of a target also allows you to set your torpedo to detonate magnetically as it passes under the ship, between 0.5 and 1 metre below the keel (the draft value given in the recog manual). This is the most devastating shot you can carry out and you can sink even the biggest ships with a single torpedo this way by breakng its back. You should only use magnetic detonation in calm seas, and IMO when just starting out sticking to leanign with imapct pistols is the safest way as you avoid introducing yet another variable that you must keep track of.

EDIT: where are my manners; Herr Obersteuermann not only provided a fine explanation of draft including photographic evidence but also didn't forget the important point of actually congratulating you on achieving some success!

[K-61]

This is a great thread. I really like how new guys get help.

Speaking of draft, it only works out that way on paper. A ship sails in a liquid environment, subject to the forces of wind and sea. A ship's draft will vary as it pitches up and down. In a flat dead sea your draft will be accurate, but a heaving ship? You could set a magnetic torpedo for 1 metre below the keel, only to see the ship go up just as it arrives and sails harmlessly under it. I don't trust magnetics in rough seas for the above reason and set impact pistols for 2 metres or more above the keel. For a ship of 6 metres draft, I set the pistol for 4 metres. If it is a calm sea and I wish to use a magnetic, I set the draft for 6.5 to 7. Because the running depth can be set in the TDC by dragging the needle, you can set increments of 1 metre by guessing and dragging the needle.

As well as hitting as close to perpendicular as possible vertically on the hull of the ship, you'll also want to hit within 20 degrees of dead centre relative to the horizontal axis of the target. To visualize this, imagine that you are looking straight down from a bird's eye view; your torpedo track should form as close to a 90 degree angle as possible as it approaches the side of the target. Inside this range of angle, within 1000 M using auto targeting you will get the vulnerable zones to "light up." Click on the box you wish to hit [engine, fuel bunker, etc.] and fire your torpedo when you get a green triangle and you may get a catastrophic hit that kills the ship with one torpedo. I know you wish to manually target, but learning this technique with auto targeting will give you an idea of how the target should look in the scope when you do try manual targeting.

It's a great game; I wish you all the best with it.

[Tessa]

it is good if you do not have obvious attack periscope longer a need to Avoid detection by other ships as DD or the vessel you have been meaning to sink..

http://imgur.com/UjWSs.jpg


This is only a small example,how it would look like in a given situation :yep:


When you lock the scope/UZO on a ship and get the green/yellow/red arrow also remember that while it is locked it will aim right at that spot; which isn't necessarily the best spot to fire at to sink the ship quickly. Each ship has its sweet spot:

http://pelsia.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/achilles2.jpg

I was using a magnetic shot and it landed exactly where I wanted it to (under the middle turret, there's 3 adjacent to each other on the Nelson), I wasn't expecting it to go down with just 1 torpedo on a battleship (have sunk many with 2, but none with just 1). The other shot was aimed at the boilers which hit a few seconds later but didn't matter, the event cam from the first shot was brutal enough that it looked like the ship was going to crack in half like many merchants do when you hit them at their achilles heel.

In order to aim at a specific spot on a ship you'll need to unlock the scope (toggle the L key so the lock light goes off) and aim the recticle at the exact spot you're after (if target is stationary or using the weapons officer).

http://pelsia.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/hood.jpg

General rule of thumb is to aim for boilers (aft section) or cargo compartments (like the fuel tanks on tankers) and if you're lucky can get a 1 shot kill on a 10,000+ ton ship. If you want to tangle with capital ships magazines always cause massive damage.

[K-61]

GWX is so amazing because of the many variables factored into the damage model. I soon grew weary of the same tired, predictable Hollywood damage effects of stock SH3. Now? I can never accurately predict how many torpedoes I will need to sink a given target. I've sunk large ships with just one, and needed more than one to sink a puny freighter of under 2K.

One tactic I have found to be effective, especially in rough weather, is to manually target a torpedo near the front of the target. The flooding in the bow section can, but now always, drag the front end under. With her engines pushing her forward, she progressively drives herself underwater, or causes her to slow so much I can tackle her after she falls behind the convoy.

[poetic hunter]

And the saga continues, but wait...our hero is stuck...at the harbor !!!

Funny story. I started a career mission, and this time I was required to leave port, and go to a place called AN-16 to patrol there. But as soon as I plot the course, and click on "return to course" my sub starts taking a ton of damage. Now my torpedo place is damaged.

I haven't even left the harbor, and I'm already taking damage. Not a good sign for our hero.

[Gerald]

And the saga continues, but wait...our hero is stuck...at the harbor !!!

Funny story. I started a career mission, and this time I was required to leave port, and go to a place called AN-16 to patrol there. But as soon as I plot the course, and click on "return to course" my sub starts taking a ton of damage. Now my torpedo place is damaged.

I haven't even left the harbor, and I'm already taking damage. Not a good sign for our hero. so you can start at sea instead of the port,it is better to take up a course outside the port when it is small and contains other boats also..

[Convycmg]

Hehe, sounds like a classic case of your navigator being shoddy in his plotting; taking you into a harbour wall or a ship or some such :DL

I like to stay on the bridge and navigate the boat out of port myself, which avoids these problems, plus I like the view. It's not necessary to do that though; just zoom in as close as you can when you plot your course and ensure there are no obsticles near your boat (some things will only show up when zoomed in very close). Also bear in mind if your're plotting a very tight course round a harbour wall or whatever that your boat might not be able to turn as tightly as you've plotted, and could drift into the obsticle. Give yourself plenty of space!

[K-61]

And watch out for the mines and sub nets in your own ports! I like the "start at sea" option in SH3 Commander; it avoids having to waste time leaving your berth and hearing the 1,001 "ship sighted!" messages, unless of course you install the "no ship sighted" mod.

[OSU]

I can relate to your predicament my friend. I am new to SH3 myself, and it took me quite a while to get a handle on the manual TDC thingydoodadwhatsitcalled. Don't worry about that for now. Take it nice and slow, thats what I did, and in no time you will be sinking ships left and right.

As for pulling out of port, all of the above posts took care of that. If you don't mind taking the time to manually steer your boat out of port, it can be a very fun experience with a ton of cool crap to look at.

[K-61]

Wait until the RAF attacks your port while you are sailing out to sea. Things'll get really interesting, really fast.

[poetic hunter]

I managed to make it out of the port without taking damage by steering manually.

Is there a better way to enter values into the rudder/compass?

For example, if I need to turn exactly 7 degrees starboard, it's kind of hard to actually click on 7 using that wheel. Perhaps if there was a way to manually enter the values...:hmmm:

[Sailor Steve]

You can use the binoculars, the UZO, the periscopes or the naked eye to look in the exact direction you want to go, then hit the '=' key. The boat will turn to that exact heading.

[poetic hunter]

^Excellent tip! I''m starting to fall in love with this forum :ahoy:

[poetic hunter]

Alright. I cleared the port, made it out to open sea. I have a loooong way to go to get to AN-16.

So I decided to dive to periscope depth, and charge ahead at full speed ! Big mistake.

My sub has come to a complete standstill. :cry:

Now I see a bunch of red exclamation marks all over my crew (I assume this means that they are tired and need to be put to bed. Am I correct?)

----------------


Question 1: when you have to travel to a loooong distance, is it better to stay on the surface, or to dive below?

Question 2: How do I get my sub moving again ?

[Draka]

Answer1: Stay on the surface as much as possible - this will be easy early on, increasingly hard as time goes on and all the aircraft/hunter-killer groups/etc make your life miserable! Two reasons:

1. You travel faster on diesels by a large margin
2. Battery life is limited - save it for maneuvering on attack runs or to get out of REALLY bad weather.

Answer2: If you are using stock fatigue, then you have to watch the green bar above each compartment. Only man those sections you need NOW - lookouts/diesel room on surface, electric room underwater, Command room at all times. Leave everyone not needed in the bow/stern quarters - and rotate out as needed to keep those green bars at AT LEAST 50% - or that compartment quits working.

[Pisces]

I managed to make it out of the port without taking damage by steering manually.

Is there a better way to enter values into the rudder/compass?

For example, if I need to turn exactly 7 degrees starboard, it's kind of hard to actually click on 7 using that wheel. Perhaps if there was a way to manually enter the values...:hmmm:It doesn't work like that. If you set a certain angle on the rudder, then it is just the deflection of the rudder 'board'. The Uboat will keep turning indefinately in circles until you set it otherwise. Not a specific amount of degrees on the compass. So 7 out of 40 degrees was just a slow turn setting.

[Jimbuna]

Alright. I cleared the port, made it out to open sea. I have a loooong way to go to get to AN-16.

So I decided to dive to periscope depth, and charge ahead at full speed ! Big mistake.

My sub has come to a complete standstill. :cry:

Now I see a bunch of red exclamation marks all over my crew (I assume this means that they are tired and need to be put to bed. Am I correct?)

----------------


Question 1: when you have to travel to a loooong distance, is it better to stay on the surface, or to dive below?

Question 2: How do I get my sub moving again ?

I'm unaware if you are using SH3 Commander but if not I can thoroughly recommend it.....select the 'no fatigue' option and your crew will never tire.

Failing use of the above, the more patrols you undertake will increase the stamina of your crew and therefore lengthen the time before they become tired/fatigued.

[Convycmg]

You should stay on the surface. You lose huge amounts of range, speed, agility and situational awareness when you dive. You dive when you detect something that you don't want to be seen by, or if it's already seen you and you need to get away from it.

Later in the war when u-boats changed from being the hunters to being the hunted, it became harder and harder to stay on the surface and so innovations like the snorkel came into play in an attempt to let the u-boats stay submerged as long as possible. This culminated in the Type XXI boats which were the first submarines intended to operate entirely submerged, and were the template for all major navies' submarine designs after the war.

Also it will take a long time or sailing to get to your patrol grid, but you should resist the urge to shorten the journey by travelling at high speed. Large and medium size boats cruised at 6-7 kts, which you can manaully set yourself, or just choose 'ahread one third' which will make you run a bit faster than this but is a reasonable approximation. You can also experiment with asking your navigator to tell you how far you can sail at your current speed (this will change depending on the weather), how far it is to the end of your plotted course, and make your own judgements about fuel economy. Remember though that the faster you run the quicker you use up your diesel.

There is no way round having to babysit the crew and move them to quaters when they get tired, other than using SH3 Commander to dispence with crew fatigue all together as others have said. However on the surface, the game stops keeping track of fatigue at (IIRC) 64x time compression and higher, so while sailing to your patrol grid you shouldn't need to worry too much about it. Managing the game's crew management system is something that you get your head around the more you practice.

[Hangman]

You should stay on the surface. You lose huge amounts of range, speed, agility and situational awareness when you dive. ...
...
This culminated in the Type XXI boats which were the first submarines intended to operate entirely submerged, and were the template for all major navies' submarine designs after the war.
...

Think of the uboat as more of a submersible rather than a submarine.
You could dive, but everything becomes very slow and difficult to do. The submersibles were good for going under the water and "hiding" if you will.

A true submarine is a boat that performs better under the water than on the surface of the water. A submarine can run under the surface longer, faster, and all around better than on the surface.

[poetic hunter]

Yeah !!! What a feeling !!! :D

I sunk my first ship in career mode today.

I went through so much with this little crew in this little sub. First we had trouble leaving the home port, then my battery ran out, and I came to a standstill because I didn't know that it is better to stay on the surface. Then we spent days just sailing surrounded by the vast loneliness of the blue ocean.

Until finally, my watch officer spotted a ship, and we moved into action. Managed to hit it with both a magnetic and an impact torpedo. I turned my ship, averaged the AOB, fired and voila....two hits in a row.


It just feels so darn satisfying ! And these guys are starting to feel like a little family now. We're basically stuck together in this u-boat in the middle of nowhere surrounded by potential enemies.

Sorry if I'm getting to sentimental for you guys. :)

[Draka]

You are beginning to get the total immersion that keeps ALL of us coming back to this. It will get more intense .... wait until you have 5 or 6 patrols under your belt, know each man inside and out - and then nearly lose the boat or do lose crew - gut-wrenching.

[Jimbuna]

Yeah !!! What a feeling !!! :D

I sunk my first ship in career mode today.

I went through so much with this little crew in this little sub. First we had trouble leaving the home port, then my battery ran out, and I came to a standstill because I didn't know that it is better to stay on the surface. Then we spent days just sailing surrounded by the vast loneliness of the blue ocean.

Until finally, my watch officer spotted a ship, and we moved into action. Managed to hit it with both a magnetic and an impact torpedo. I turned my ship, averaged the AOB, fired and voila....two hits in a row.


It just feels so darn satisfying ! And these guys are starting to feel like a little family now. We're basically stuck together in this u-boat in the middle of nowhere surrounded by potential enemies.

Sorry if I'm getting to sentimental for you guys. :)

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif







http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/whistle.gif

[OSU]

Yeah !!! What a feeling !!! :D

I sunk my first ship in career mode today.

I went through so much with this little crew in this little sub. First we had trouble leaving the home port, then my battery ran out, and I came to a standstill because I didn't know that it is better to stay on the surface. Then we spent days just sailing surrounded by the vast loneliness of the blue ocean.

Until finally, my watch officer spotted a ship, and we moved into action. Managed to hit it with both a magnetic and an impact torpedo. I turned my ship, averaged the AOB, fired and voila....two hits in a row.


It just feels so darn satisfying ! And these guys are starting to feel like a little family now. We're basically stuck together in this u-boat in the middle of nowhere surrounded by potential enemies.

Sorry if I'm getting to sentimental for you guys. :)

Congratulations! No, you're not being sentimental, almost everyone here has felt this way at one point or another.

Jimbuna is right. You NEED to get SH3 Commander. It will add much more immersion and will make managing your crew much easier. I would recommend Grey Wolves Expansion 3.0, but wait until you get comfortable with the stock game before you download a major mod like GWX.

[Mittelwaechter]

Wait for your first DD to drop some depth charges at your tiny bucket and you'll get caught by this game. Bloody lips and sweat and pure horror. You'll love the tactics and you'll enjoy to simply enter the conning tower and watch and listen to the waves for several minutes. Your trusty crew next to you doing their job...

[frau kaleun]

And your first successful convoy infiltration. Now there's a nail-biter. Setting up your intercept course, trying to time it just right so you hit them when it's dark, sweating it out trying to sneak past the lead escorts undetected, suddenly realizing you've made it and are now smack dab in between two columns of ships... picking out your targets, trying to get into position and wait for the best moment to fire at the fattest merchants, all the while trying to keep track of the entire convoy because there are ships EVERYWHERE.

Meeeeem-reeeeeeez... light corners of my miiiiiiind....:O:

[poetic hunter]

Hmm...ran into another problem.

How do I actually complete a patrol in career mode, and get credit for it?

I had two missions to complete on this patrol:

1. get to AN-84

2. Patrol AN-84 for 24 hours.

I have completed BOTH of those two mission objectives. But yet, the patrol doesn't end. There is no message or anything that says "patrol complete".
Should I just keep floating around out here? How do I actually get credit for completing this patrol ?

[Draka]

Your patrol doesn't end until you 1) return to base or 2) die. If you get 1, then you will receive credit and any renown earned as part of the "in base" screen as you get ready for your next patrol. As for WHEN you decide to return to base - that is totally up to you. Most of us go to our assigned grid, cruise around for 24 hours then go find something to sink in the known trade lanes until either outta eels or low fuel. There will never be a call from Unkle Karl to "Come on in - yer done fer this'un!".

[Tessa]

Depending on the version you're playing you may or may not get any reknown for completing your patrol grid, only way to find out is to look at the readme's as its usually one of the major points of many mods.

Aside from increasing the immersion and historical aspect, the supermods, SHC, and the custom GUI's frequently increase the games performance (a few decrease it; those which do are explicitly noted), some of the GUI's actually would boost up your FPS by 20 or more on a modest machine. Aside from their contribution to historical aspect of the game, they also usually make the game itself run better.

Don't think it's been mentioned, but when you hit the Z key for silent running it isn't really "silent", a DD or even a trawler can spot you travelling at 2 knots, to run truly silent you need to manually adjust the speed to 1 kts in order to have a chance at fooling the escorts.

Patrols end either when you're ready to go back to port, get sunk at sea, run out of torpedo's and deck gun ammo, have expended 2/3 of your fuel and only sunk 1 measly coastal freighter or your hull is so damaged that diving to periscope depth becomes a dangerous situation; pretty much whenever you feel like it, or have completed (your own personal goals) for the patrol. Despite what comes over the radio you don't have a curfew or have to go anywhere unless you want to.

Another great mod is the torpedo damage one, it not only shows damage from torpedo hits but from deck gun shells too. Enable the use of the external camera so when you manage to one shot kill a 10,000+ ship you can go back and look at the exact point(s) you hit her at. Here's one from the Hood with 2 magnetic explosions under the 2 & 3 turretts, after bout 10 minutes (game time) she listed until she finally sank upside down:

http://pelsia.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/hoodmagnetic.jpg

The torpedo damage mod is great for effects, but also for finding out what shots are most effective against each kind of ship; and most importantly where the torpedo actually exploded. Will take awhile to find the achilles heels to all the different ships but they've all got em, personally biggest I've been able to take down in one torpedo is the Nelson (35,000 tons). By aiming at the right spot and best done at a 45 degree aob you can sink a whaling ship or bigger with just 1 eel even in bad weather :up:

[poetic hunter]

Thank you for the responses, guys. And I'm glad that Tessa brought up mods.

Ok.

Are there any mods that are strictly bug fixes? You mentioned UI mods that help to improve performance. That sounds like something I would definitely want to try out. :yeah:

So if you guys could recommend mods that are strictly bug fixes, or a good UI mod, that would be very helpful.


----------------------------------
I am a bit wary about the supermods like GWX for two reasons:

1) I'm still learning the game, and mods usually add more complexity. I don't need more complexity yet. :DL

2) The Grey Wolves mod affects performance, and my computer isn't that powerful. If there was a way to install that mod without the graphics improvements, that would be cool.

[Jimbuna]

Be advised...you will not get any renown for returning to base because this function has never worked in the stock game or any of the supermods.

[Draka]

I sincerely doubt anyone here has a more modest machine than mine - Dell Dimension E510, single 3GHz processor, only 1G RAM, ATI Radeon X600 256MB graphics card. OS: WinXP SP3. I am running SH3 with GWX 3, SH3 Cmdr and a bunch of mods:

http://www.filefront.com/17276090/Current%20Mods%2006%20Sept%202010.bmphttp://www.filefront.com/17276090/Current Mods 06 Sept 2010.bmp

Runs fine - a small bit of loading when I first start - a slow 360 degree turn in place so it can load everything outside - and then off I go.

[poetic hunter]

^Nice. I'll get MaGUI and read up a bit more on some of the others you have there.

Good thing I studied German as my foreign language requirement in college. So while I can't speak it fluently, I can pick out words.

[Herr-Berbunch]

I sincerely doubt anyone here has a more modest machine than mine - Dell Dimension E510, single 3GHz processor, only 1G RAM, ATI Radeon X600 256MB graphics card. OS: WinXP SP3. I am running SH3 with GWX 3, SH3 Cmdr and a bunch of mods:

http://www.filefront.com/17276090/Current%20Mods%2006%20Sept%202010.bmphttp://www.filefront.com/17276090/Current Mods 06 Sept 2010.bmp

Runs fine - a small bit of loading when I first start - a slow 360 degree turn in place so it can load everything outside - and then off I go.

@Draka - 1Gb ram doesn't sound great, I'm sure someone on here will post some more to you if you let us know what you can take - people upgrade and just have old stuff piled up gathering dust. I've recently sent some ram to Latvia so have none spare but like I say - let us know and we can speed you up.

Should get a swap-shop thread running under the PC Hardware/Software forum. How stupid will I look now if there is already one? :D


Edit: There is now - http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=174675

[Sailor Steve]

As far as patrol requirements go, as Yogi Berra once famously misquoted, "It ain't over 'til it's over!"

Your patrol ends when you dock back at your home base. Historically kaleuns were assigned to go to an set grid and stay there until new orders came. Silent Hunter 2 had a wacked-out FPS-style that had you doing a "mission" over and over until you got it right. SH3 was originally planned to be similar, but a massive protest got that changed, at the expense of a six-month delay in the release date. The "patrol 24 hours" is a holdover from that. In the stock game you recieve extra renown for going to the assigned grid and some more for staying there the required 24 hours. GWX removes those rewards, the thinking being that captains weren't praised for just doing the job.

Some players ignore those orders entirely, feeling that they can earn more renown by going to where they know the traffic is and sinking lots of ships. I, on the other hand, don't care about renown at all. I go to my assigned grid and stay there for at least two weeks, after which I roll a die to determine if I have been ordered to stay there or go to a new grid. My thinking is that is what happened in real life, and if I end up with little or no tonnage that's the way it goes sometimes.

Good thing I studied German as my foreign language requirement in college. So while I can't speak it fluently, I can pick out words.
I picked up what little I know from repeated watchings of Das Boot (the 5-hour 'Uncut' version, of course), so what little I can recognize is exactly what I need when using the Das Boot Sound Mod. :D

[Herr-Berbunch]

As far as patrol requirements go, as Yogi Berra once famously misquoted, "It ain't over 'til it's over!"


I prefer his "I spy a pickernick basket"! :D... but that's nothing to do with patrol requirements.

[frau kaleun]

Also be aware that you have to hit the ESC key and then choose to exit your patrol by clicking on the appropriate option. When you see the option to "Dock at [name of base]" and click on it - then, only then, does your patrol end.

Going all the way back to your home base, and skillfully maneuvering your boat through the harbor and docks and/or locks (as the case may be) right back into the pen from which it sailed, will not end your patrol. Indeed, not even swinging the boat around and BACKING it in like an old pro will officially end your patrol. Even if you, say, keep pulling in and out of the pen and wiggling the boat this way and that trying to hit the "magic spot" that tells the game you're back where you started, your patrol will not be over.

In fact, not even yelling "LUUUUUCY I'M HO-OOOOME" at the computer will end your patrol.

Yelling it in German doesn't work either.

Um, not that I ever forgot about using the ESC key and tried any of that, of course. :O:

[Sailor Steve]

I prefer his "I spy a pickernick basket"! :D... but that's nothing to do with patrol requirements.
Not the same person...bear...whatever...

[Snestorm]

Glad to see your progress.
And all the helpful posts in your thread.
Keep up the good work.

[Gerald]

Are Mr Snestorm from Bdu, "Keep up the good work."

[poetic hunter]

Is there a bug with Time Compression?

Because after a while it simply stops working. No matter how much I press the + button, it doesn't go up, and the simulation moves like it is at 1 speed.

Is this bug related to the F-5 map screen? because that is where I usually run into it.

On the F-4 bridge screen, time compression usually works ok.

[Gerald]

It tends to stop when you get the message, or very close to the land or other ships in the vicinity

[poetic hunter]

Yeah, I understand that it slows down when I encounter enemy ships etc.

I'm talking about it just not working anymore. Like I would try to increase it, and it won't go past 4X, and everything would be crawling like molasses. As I said, this (bug?) usually happens on the map screen.

[Gerald]

you can get settings there for TC, :yep:

[Tessa]

Thank you for the responses, guys. And I'm glad that Tessa brought up mods.

Ok.

Are there any mods that are strictly bug fixes? You mentioned UI mods that help to improve performance. That sounds like something I would definitely want to try out. :yeah:

So if you guys could recommend mods that are strictly bug fixes, or a good UI mod, that would be very helpful.


----------------------------------
I am a bit wary about the supermods like GWX for two reasons:

1) I'm still learning the game, and mods usually add more complexity. I don't need more complexity yet. :DL

2) The Grey Wolves mod affects performance, and my computer isn't that powerful. If there was a way to install that mod without the graphics improvements, that would be cool.

Long as you've got down basic navigation and torpedo shooting (recommend using the Weapons Officer until you're the game starts becoming second nature) continuing to use the stock game will only start to hold you back. GWX may seem intimidating, but you can still take it easy without getting into major trouble. Think of it as a car with a manual transmission but no clutch, you just change gears when you want; once you're confident in your skills you can start using the clutch and get a wider gaming experience.

The basic GWX install has several mods that are aimed to improve game performance like the lite harbor traffic among others. Manos/MEP is one to improve graphic performance, though don't think it causes a major hit on system resources despite the major improvement it makes. SHC and its ability to start patrol at sea removes a lot of annoyances and possibility of running into your own subnets/minefields by leaving port manually (believe this is only a major risk at Salamis where you have to follow a tugboat out of the harbor in order to avoid the minefields); only place it is a hinderance can be Kiel as you won't be about to use the canal to go through Denmark on your way out, you're stuck going around (which I prefer anyways, there's too many ships and other stuff that slows you down in the canal that can make it slower (timewise) or a collision hazard to use, fuelwise it saves you a considerable amount) the long route, unless you want to risk the English channel most usually go around Scottland to get into the Atlantic anyways so isn't a major detour.

Also need to use a skin mod for your boat, camouflage gives you a 10% boost in coolness :up:

[Pisces]

Yeah, I understand that it slows down when I encounter enemy ships etc.

I'm talking about it just not working anymore. Like I would try to increase it, and it won't go past 4X, and everything would be crawling like molasses. As I said, this (bug?) usually happens on the map screen.Can you post the contents of the file:

(My)Documents\SH3\data\cfg\Main.cfg

Just the [TIME COMPRESSION] block will suffice. That way we can see what event might be holding back time compression. Though you probably have default settings, I can't remember what was at level 4.

[poetic hunter]

^I think I figured it out !

The "Hunter State" refers to when an enemy ship is nearby and I'm trying to shoot it, correct? If so, then I see why it won't go past 32 when an enemy is near and I'm trying to chase it down.

Here's my Time compression setting:


[TIME COMPRESSION]
TimeStop=0
RealTime=1
LandProximity=4
CriticalDamage=1
CrewEfficiency=1
AirEnemyDetected=1
SoundEffects=2
CharacterAnim=4
EnemyDetected=8
RadioReport=8
Particles=8
PrayState=8
HunterState=32
3DRender=32
Maximum=2048

----------------------------

32 runs almost as slow as 1 on my computer (on the map screen), and I wonder if your graphics card affects time compression. My graphics card is weak, so...

[Gerald]

^I think I figured it out !

The "Hunter State" refers to when an enemy ship is nearby and I'm trying to shoot it, correct? If so, then I see why it won't go past 32 when an enemy is near and I'm trying to chase it down.

Here's my Time compression setting:


[TIME COMPRESSION]
TimeStop=0
RealTime=1
LandProximity=4
CriticalDamage=1
CrewEfficiency=1
AirEnemyDetected=1
SoundEffects=2
CharacterAnim=4
EnemyDetected=8
RadioReport=8
Particles=8
PrayState=8
HunterState=32
3DRender=32
Maximum=2048

----------------------------

32 runs almost as slow as 1 on my computer (on the map screen), and I wonder if your graphics card affects time compression. My graphics card is weak, so... so I do not exceed 128 TC,potential increases are not directly at high TC, and also can cause undesirable effects.

[Pisces]

^I think I figured it out !

The "Hunter State" refers to when an enemy ship is nearby and I'm trying to shoot it, correct? If so, then I see why it won't go past 32 when an enemy is near and I'm trying to chase it down. Yes, but you also said it happening at TC level 4. This would imply that you are over dangerously shallow depth. (LandProximity)


32 runs almost as slow as 1 on my computer (on the map screen), and I wonder if your graphics card affects time compression. My graphics card is weak, so...In my experience the map is much more easy to draw for your graphics card because it is just 2D. I allways get framerates up in the 100, versus 20-30 in 3d, like on the bridge. But I have a modern laptop. Eitherway, those are the numbers that you can tweak to set the TC limits. 3DRender defines the TC level at which your crew is still rendered in 3D views, but also the level at which the crew's fatigue levels are no longer updated. I haven't got a clue what 'PrayState' means.

[poetic hunter]

Alright then. I will take the plunge and install GWX 3. Perhaps I will get better overall performance with that mod, and time compression would be less of an issue.

*Deep breath* Hope my laptop doesn't blow up after installing the megamod.

[poetic hunter]

UPDATE: (If anyone still cares)

*sigh* I'm about to give up on this game and call it "wasted potential." I really really did enjoy what I saw in the scenarios in the training mode, but career mode is not enjoyable for some reason.

Let me try to explain:

I did install the Grey wolves expansion. Just the base expansion with no extra mods or anything. While the UI has improved, the career mode is still the same confusing mess.

There are just so many little things that are frustrating me about career mode, and they add up. :-?

Number one: Boring objectives. I get two mission objectives...every single patrol so far. Go to Grid X. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. Is this what career mode is all about?



Number 2: Having to travel out of port to get to your objective and having to return to port is annoying.

In GWX, The starting port at Kiel gets frustrating. I have to dodge through traffic, and go all the way around a country to get to grid AN 81. This is tedious as it takes a long time, and then my crew starts gettign tired. Which leads to number 3.

Number 3: There is possibly a bug involving tired crew members. After they get tired, there seems to be no way to replenish their energy. I stop the boat, put everyone in deck or stern quarters, and just sit there for days. But as soon as I put them back on duty ...red exclamation mark, and they're all tired again. :damn:

Number 4: No way to indicate what ships I should sink. In the vanilla game, enemy ships showed up as red. After installing GWX, all the merchant ships I encounter are blue. Are these allies or enemies? I haven't ran into one red ship yet.

Number 5: I'm still confused about how to end a patrol after completing the mission objectives. I can't go back home to port, because at that point, my crew is tired,and no amount of resting gets them back (see number 3). If I press the "escape" button and click on "exit patrol" the patrol ends, but I'm not sure if I get credit for it or not. It just starts patrol two where the objectives are almost exactly the same as patrol one: 1. Go to Grid X. 2. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. *sigh*

Number 6: I got a radio message from GWX stating that all ships in Konigsberg should go back to Konigsberg. My sub was far away from Konigsberg when that radio message appeared. Did it still apply to me? :06:

[Jimbuna]

If you haven't already, might I suggest you read the comprehensive manual that came with GWX.

[Draka]

"Number one: Boring objectives. I get two mission objectives...every single patrol so far. Go to Grid X. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. Is this what career mode is all about?"

In real life, that is exactly what the vast majority of orders were. Although it was supposed to be for the entire patrol - other posts will tell you that the 24 hour thing is a left-over from early dynamic campaign model that was never fully developed. What it means is that BdU is sending you to what they think is a strategic location - after the 24 hours you are free to use your own judgement as to exactly where to go to best add to the war effort. THAT takes a lot of study as to the convoy routes, best chokepoints, etc - all that historical stuff MOST of us play to simulate. Add in SH3 Commander, and you can set your OWN patrol location.

"Number 2: Having to travel out of port to get to your objective and having to return to port is annoying.

In GWX, The starting port at Kiel gets frustrating. I have to dodge through traffic, and go all the way around a country to get to grid AN 81. This is tedious as it takes a long time, and then my crew starts gettign tired. Which leads to number 3."

Can't really help you on this one - as a real life ex-sailboat owner I ENJOY the maneuvering aspects - I actually leave from the wharf and return to same - backing in as was done in real life. Again - this is an immersion factor and adds to the enjoyment FOR ME.

"Number 3: There is possibly a bug involving tired crew members. After they get tired, there seems to be no way to replenish their energy. I stop the boat, put everyone in deck or stern quarters, and just sit there for days. But as soon as I put them back on duty ...red exclamation mark, and they're all tired again."

SH3 Commander will help here as well - you can choose various different fatigue models including turning it off. But the basics are these: Only have as many crew in the needed compartments to make that bar green (about half way) and leave all others in quarters. In addition, the higher TC (Time Compression) settings turn off the fatigue. Only fully man all compartments during battle of other emergency situations. I actually use the "No fatigue" model - as in real life "Nummer eins" - the bosun - would run the crew roster, along with the IWO - that is not the duty of a Kaleun, aside from ensuring that the other two are in fact doing their duties.

"Number 4: No way to indicate what ships I should sink. In the vanilla game, enemy ships showed up as red. After installing GWX, all the merchant ships I encounter are blue. Are these allies or enemies? I haven't ran into one red ship yet."

Again - immersion factor. Remember that stock is still somewhat gamish - the supermods attempt to go closer to reality. In real life, the only way to know if a ship's state is to get close enough to see thier flag - and know which countries you are currently at war with. There is a pull-out menu that lists what the exact state of each country modelled is at variuos points in the timeline - I just happen to know as I am a serious military history buff. Others will tell you how to look it up.

"Number 5: I'm still confused about how to end a patrol after completing the mission objectives. I can't go back home to port, because at that point, my crew is tired,and no amount of resting gets them back (see number 3). If I press the "escape" button and click on "exit patrol" the patrol ends, but I'm not sure if I get credit for it or not. It just starts patrol two where the objectives are almost exactly the same as patrol one: 1. Go to Grid X. 2. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. *sigh*"

Á patrol ends once you have returned to port and docked - or died! Having returned to port, you can now re-fuel (auto), re-arm (change out different loadouts depending on available munitions), upgrade equipment, etc. Then you go out again - and yes, that is the whole objective - sink 'em all!

"Number 6: I got a radio message from GWX stating that all ships in Konigsberg should go back to Konigsberg. My sub was far away from Konigsberg when that radio message appeared. Did it still apply to me?"

That is a feature of GWX - as that message only appears in Aug 1939. If you had read the orders, it told you that you were to only stay in the near area (AO98 IIRC) and run on the practice ships in that bay. GWX starts you on 1 Aug '39 - and the war doesn't start until 1 Sept. So what you do is shake down your boat, run practice runs until early morning 4 Aug - when you are told to return to Konigsberg, when your base will change to Kiel from that point on - and the next mission will be a real war patrol. Historically the 7.Flottille did move just before war start from those locations - again, an immersion factor.

Others will amplify these remarks - but the entire basis of this Forum and most of us is to as much as possible place ourselves in the place of a Uboat commander in this era - and there is a lot of things "under the hood" that are taken for granted - the entrrest in history, real specifications of the vessels and their equipment, the convoy system and how to defeat it - all of that. A very steep learning curve - but to us worth it in the end.

[Sailor Steve]

Well said, Draka! :rock:

other posts will tell you that the 24 hour thing is a left-over from early dynamic campaign model that was never fully developed.
Actually it was a totally non-dynamic campaign that was rewritten after a major protest from the community.

[Mr_Kaizer]

UPDATE: (If anyone still cares)

*sigh* I'm about to give up on this game and call it "wasted potential." I really really did enjoy what I saw in the scenarios in the training mode, but career mode is not enjoyable for some reason.

Let me try to explain:

I did install the Grey wolves expansion. Just the base expansion with no extra mods or anything. While the UI has improved, the career mode is still the same confusing mess.

There are just so many little things that are frustrating me about career mode, and they add up. :-?

Number one: Boring objectives. I get two mission objectives...every single patrol so far. Go to Grid X. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. Is this what career mode is all about?



Number 2: Having to travel out of port to get to your objective and having to return to port is annoying.

In GWX, The starting port at Kiel gets frustrating. I have to dodge through traffic, and go all the way around a country to get to grid AN 81. This is tedious as it takes a long time, and then my crew starts gettign tired. Which leads to number 3.

Number 3: There is possibly a bug involving tired crew members. After they get tired, there seems to be no way to replenish their energy. I stop the boat, put everyone in deck or stern quarters, and just sit there for days. But as soon as I put them back on duty ...red exclamation mark, and they're all tired again. :damn:

Number 4: No way to indicate what ships I should sink. In the vanilla game, enemy ships showed up as red. After installing GWX, all the merchant ships I encounter are blue. Are these allies or enemies? I haven't ran into one red ship yet.

Number 5: I'm still confused about how to end a patrol after completing the mission objectives. I can't go back home to port, because at that point, my crew is tired,and no amount of resting gets them back (see number 3). If I press the "escape" button and click on "exit patrol" the patrol ends, but I'm not sure if I get credit for it or not. It just starts patrol two where the objectives are almost exactly the same as patrol one: 1. Go to Grid X. 2. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. *sigh*

Number 6: I got a radio message from GWX stating that all ships in Konigsberg should go back to Konigsberg. My sub was far away from Konigsberg when that radio message appeared. Did it still apply to me? :06:

As for number 2, you could use the Kiel channel to cut down travel time. I haven't actually tried it myself yet. I'm new to GWX myself, and I'm currently based at Wilhelmshaven (where the channel exits IIRC).

As for the tired crewmembers, they only get tired at TC speeds under...64 is it? And I believe that they only get rested at TC speeds below that as well.

[flag4]

UPDATE: (If anyone still cares)

*sigh* I'm about to give up on this game and call it "wasted potential." I really really did enjoy what I saw in the scenarios in the training mode, but career mode is not enjoyable for some reason.

Let me try to explain:

I did install the Grey wolves expansion. Just the base expansion with no extra mods or anything. While the UI has improved, the career mode is still the same confusing mess.

There are just so many little things that are frustrating me about career mode, and they add up. :-?

Number one: Boring objectives. I get two mission objectives...every single patrol so far. Go to Grid X. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. Is this what career mode is all about?



Number 2: Having to travel out of port to get to your objective and having to return to port is annoying.

In GWX, The starting port at Kiel gets frustrating. I have to dodge through traffic, and go all the way around a country to get to grid AN 81. This is tedious as it takes a long time, and then my crew starts gettign tired. Which leads to number 3.

Number 3: There is possibly a bug involving tired crew members. After they get tired, there seems to be no way to replenish their energy. I stop the boat, put everyone in deck or stern quarters, and just sit there for days. But as soon as I put them back on duty ...red exclamation mark, and they're all tired again. :damn:

Number 4: No way to indicate what ships I should sink. In the vanilla game, enemy ships showed up as red. After installing GWX, all the merchant ships I encounter are blue. Are these allies or enemies? I haven't ran into one red ship yet.

Number 5: I'm still confused about how to end a patrol after completing the mission objectives. I can't go back home to port, because at that point, my crew is tired,and no amount of resting gets them back (see number 3). If I press the "escape" button and click on "exit patrol" the patrol ends, but I'm not sure if I get credit for it or not. It just starts patrol two where the objectives are almost exactly the same as patrol one: 1. Go to Grid X. 2. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. *sigh*

Number 6: I got a radio message from GWX stating that all ships in Konigsberg should go back to Konigsberg. My sub was far away from Konigsberg when that radio message appeared. Did it still apply to me? :06:

its a shame you feel this way. i'll have a pop at a few of your problems.

boring objectives: you can go where you like. learn the hunting grounds: someone may throw up a list for you ie BF13/15 for incoming convoys.

having to travel: there is an option in SHCommander to start patrol at sea. switch to Williamshaven: you are on the north sea coast of Germany
start later in the war and go from the bay of biscay bases.

crew tired: they will - if new. you need to cycle them. check them, swop them around. (theres maybe something else here with tired crew but dont know what. maybe in SHCommander - you may have a fatigue model employed.)

which ships: check the flags. if they are neutral - dont sink. if they are allies, do. use outside camera to cheat if you dont want to wait and get close to check.

end patrol: click Esc. click 'save and exit.' if you are half way through and dont want to finish. when you come back load that save and you're back on that patrol. also, you have continue mission and return to base. self explanetary really - carry on or go home. if you go home your patrol is over. thats what i understand.

messages: messages are for immersion only - as far as i know. i think there are mods that make them more worth while though.


i think that when you get around these things you will be sailing!!
dont give up. its worth it. patience is a virtue here - you'll need alot of it. OR you can go to Single Missions and get stuck in straight away.

keep coming back and asking questions - there is never a silly one:salute:


....hmmm, have i made any silly mistakes:hmmm:

[frau kaleun]

Number one: Boring objectives. I get two mission objectives...every single patrol so far. Go to Grid X. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. Is this what career mode is all about?

Yes and no. You can choose to stay in your patrol grid for 24 hours, or for your entire patrol, or not go there at all. The stock game awards renown for reaching the grid and putting in 24 hours there, but GWX removes the renown award (unless you mod it back in) for following those orders.

In RL most boats were ordered to take up station in a particular area and stay there until additional orders were received, or they made contact with enemy shipping and gave chase.

The game reflects the assignment of a patrol area, but you are free to leave it at any time at your own discretion to look for enemy shipping. Or you can read the "immersion" radio messages that come in and respond/react to information that you get from those regarding general u-boat operations. It's up to you. But the game is not going to tell you in particular where to go or what to do with your time at sea, other than assigning you a patrol grid when you leave base.

Number 2: Having to travel out of port to get to your objective and having to return to port is annoying.

But it's a reflection of RL... SH3 is primarily a u-boat simulation, and so the attempt is to make the playing experience simulate real life aboard a combat vessel. Getting in and out of port and to and from one's patrol area reflects that.

If you're not playing at 100% realism, you can hit the Esc key at any time and exit your patrol (return to base) without making the journey back. However there's no function that will teleport you from the base to a patrol area. The "game" is meant to start when you leave port. Many things can happen on the way to your assigned grid (should you choose to go there) - encounters with enemy warships and merchants included.

If you use SH3 Commander, you can opt to start and end your patrols "at sea." This will not land you in the middle of a patrol grid when you load a new patrol, however it will move your starting and ending coordinates to the outer edge of your home harbor/base/docks. That means that the time you spend navigating through and around local shipping just to get to sea is greatly reduced or even eliminated.


Number 3: There is possibly a bug involving tired crew members. After they get tired, there seems to be no way to replenish their energy. I stop the boat, put everyone in deck or stern quarters, and just sit there for days. But as soon as I put them back on duty ...red exclamation mark, and they're all tired again. :damn:

The fatigue issue can be modded to better suit one's preferences, or done away with entirely. Someone else here can address how to do it manually, but it can also be done very easily with SH3 Commander. I use Commander's "no fatigue" model so I'm not sure what "normal" fatigue looks like... someone else will have to address whether or not something is wrong with your install in that respect, or if what you are experiencing is the way it's supposed to be (and how to manage the crew fatigue issue).

Number 4: No way to indicate what ships I should sink. In the vanilla game, enemy ships showed up as red. After installing GWX, all the merchant ships I encounter are blue. Are these allies or enemies? I haven't ran into one red ship yet.

In stock, other vessels are color-coded to indicate whether they are friendly, enemy, or neutral. GWX removes the color-coding so that all vessels have to be identified visually by you when you encounter them (just like in RL). You can add the color-coding back into the game with the GWX Contact Color mod:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=33

Number 5: I'm still confused about how to end a patrol after completing the mission objectives. I can't go back home to port, because at that point, my crew is tired,and no amount of resting gets them back (see number 3). If I press the "escape" button and click on "exit patrol" the patrol ends, but I'm not sure if I get credit for it or not. It just starts patrol two where the objectives are almost exactly the same as patrol one: 1. Go to Grid X. 2. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. *sigh*

When you end your patrol, you get whatever renown is coming to you for what you achieved (ships sunk, aircraft downed). Your renown will show up either in the patrol log, or your personnel file, or both (I'm not sure).

Number 6: I got a radio message from GWX stating that all ships in Konigsberg should go back to Konigsberg. My sub was far away from Konigsberg when that radio message appeared. Did it still apply to me? :06:

If you were playing in August 1939, that message is for ships based in Konigsberg. If you were based in Kiel, it would not apply to you.

Additionally, if you started your career in August 1939, things are going to be pretty boring for that first month because the war hasn't started yet. There is no enemy shipping, no enemy planes, no combat action (unless you choose to start a private war of your own by firing on someone just for the heck of it).

It may be that some of the simulation/immersion aspects of SH3 just aren't for you, and that's okay. But nothing you're describing is a bug or an issue with the game itself (aside from possible problems with crew fatigue, which I can't comment on as noted above). It's how the game was meant to be, especially the GWX version - a simulation that recreates as best as possible (given the limitations involved) the experience of commanding a combat u-boat from 1939-1945. That includes navigating in and out of base where required, making the transit to one's assigned station, and then waiting to make contact with the enemy.

[Herr-Berbunch]

UPDATE: (If anyone still cares)

*sigh* I'm about to give up on this game and call it "wasted potential." I really really did enjoy what I saw in the scenarios in the training mode, but career mode is not enjoyable for some reason.

Let me try to explain:

I did install the Grey wolves expansion. Just the base expansion with no extra mods or anything. While the UI has improved, the career mode is still the same confusing mess.

There are just so many little things that are frustrating me about career mode, and they add up. :-?

Number one: Boring objectives. I get two mission objectives...every single patrol so far. Go to Grid X. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. Is this what career mode is all about?



Number 2: Having to travel out of port to get to your objective and having to return to port is annoying.

In GWX, The starting port at Kiel gets frustrating. I have to dodge through traffic, and go all the way around a country to get to grid AN 81. This is tedious as it takes a long time, and then my crew starts gettign tired. Which leads to number 3.

Number 3: There is possibly a bug involving tired crew members. After they get tired, there seems to be no way to replenish their energy. I stop the boat, put everyone in deck or stern quarters, and just sit there for days. But as soon as I put them back on duty ...red exclamation mark, and they're all tired again. :damn:

Number 4: No way to indicate what ships I should sink. In the vanilla game, enemy ships showed up as red. After installing GWX, all the merchant ships I encounter are blue. Are these allies or enemies? I haven't ran into one red ship yet.

Number 5: I'm still confused about how to end a patrol after completing the mission objectives. I can't go back home to port, because at that point, my crew is tired,and no amount of resting gets them back (see number 3). If I press the "escape" button and click on "exit patrol" the patrol ends, but I'm not sure if I get credit for it or not. It just starts patrol two where the objectives are almost exactly the same as patrol one: 1. Go to Grid X. 2. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. *sigh*

Number 6: I got a radio message from GWX stating that all ships in Konigsberg should go back to Konigsberg. My sub was far away from Konigsberg when that radio message appeared. Did it still apply to me? :06:

1. Get SH3 Commander - you can select your own grid refs to patrol, alternatively don't, go wherever you choose anyway - it makes no difference with GWX.

2. Get SH3 Commander - you can select 'start patrol at sea' which is better, you still have to sail throught the Kattegat though. Or you could start your career at Wilmshaven, or depending on dates, any other base!

3. Get SH3 Commander and select the 'no fatigue' option - let's face it real Kaluens didn't micromanage their crew!

4. GWX makes SH3 more realistic, during the '39 - '45 conflict kaluens did not have magical maps that instantly colour-coded (color if you are American) their charts according to the danger! You are supposed to stalk your prey, get close enough without getting seen and use your ship recognition manual (big book to the left of your periscope) to find out which ships are which! Also with GWX in the periscope screen are references (pull down tabs - top left) which list the flags involved and dates they're enemies, simply locate the flag on the hunted vessel, correspond with the flag on the chart and if your dates are right, los!

5. Personally I get to about 25km of port I'm docking at and then Esc, Exit Patrol, Dock at [port]. Yes, it does get a bit samey, but as 1 - you don't have to go where they say!

6. GWX messages are mostly for immersion - the fact is that you would've got similar messages in real life. Some are scripted for things like the fall of France or Norway when their ports began opening up to U-boat operations and your flotilla may have moved to one of these.

Most importantly, the creators of GWX spent alot of their time doing their best for the common or garden user. They improved the stock game no end and received only the odd thank-you in forum messages, they didn't earn 20-40k for doing the job that Ubi should've done (or be doing?). As part of the doing their best they wrote a few short notes and called it the GWX Manual, it comes free, gratis and for nothing with GWX itself and like Jim says - READ IT :D

If after all that, you still need more, go buy an xbox.





PS: this post is not meant to offend :D

PPS: Grrr, Frau beat me to it! :nope:

[frau kaleun]

they wrote a few short notes and called it the GWX Manual

This is the funniest thing I will read here all day. :har:

Somewhere in the Mediterranean there's an HP executive sunning himself on the deck of a yacht which he paid for with the proceeds from all the ink I had to buy to finish printing out the complete GWX manual.

And one of these days I'm gonna sail my u-boat right through Gibraltar and sink the lousy bastid. :D



PPS: Grrr, Frau beat me to it! :nope: flag4 beat us both. :O:

[Herr-Berbunch]

This is the funniest thing I will read here all day. :har:

Somewhere in the Mediterranean there's an HP executive sunning himself on the deck of a yacht which he paid for with the proceeds from all the ink I had to buy to finish printing out the complete GWX manual.

And one of these days I'm gonna sail my u-boat right through Gibraltar and sink the lousy bastid. :D


[SIZE=1] flag4 beat us both. :O:

I'm just glad I watched it load into Reader before printing - soon decided against it :DL

Read the questions then just replied and your post started on new page. And I thought you'd been quick off the mark, quiet day at work? :yep:

[Herr-Berbunch]

....hmmm, have i made any silly mistakes:hmmm:

Only ones that Steve would pick up on :haha:

[frau kaleun]

I'm just glad I watched it load into Reader before printing - soon decided against it :DL

Read the questions then just replied and your post started on new page. And I thought you'd been quick off the mark, quiet day at work? :yep:

I bit the bullet and printed it because I'd rather have a hard copy to refer to than scroll through a pdf file - easier on my eyes. Plus it's very handy if I need to look something up and I have the game running.

And actually it looks like a lot of folks beat us to the punch! :DL

[Jimbuna]

This is developing into quite an interesting thread http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Herr-Berbunch]

This is developing into quite an interesting thread http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

Home time for me soon so it'll be lunch tomorrow (UK) before I can rejoin :nope:

[Jimbuna]

Home time for me soon so it'll be lunch tomorrow (UK) before I can rejoin :nope:


Enjoy......we're having steak in a peppered sauce tonight :sunny:

[Herr-Berbunch]

Stir-fry for me, now this is an interesting thread, and a can or two later on left over from a party at the weekend (for my two year-old, can't drink like she used to!)

[Jimbuna]

Stir-fry for me, now this is an interesting thread, and a can or two later on left over from a party at the weekend (for my two year-old, can't drink like she used to!)


LOL....likewise (on the drinks side) :DL

I count myself fortunate when you consider I forgot to get a card yesterday for our 26th anniversary :doh:

[frau kaleun]

LOL....likewise (on the drinks side) :DL

I count myself fortunate when you consider I forgot to get a card yesterday for our 26th anniversary :doh:

https://woodzone.cybrhost.com/Merchant2/plans/doghouse/doghouse-comp.jpg

And you're welcome. :O:

[Sailor Steve]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Lza3NVH6Ig&feature=related

Or if you're a little more modern-minded...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXQ4tRlYgM0&feature=related

[Jimbuna]

https://woodzone.cybrhost.com/Merchant2/plans/doghouse/doghouse-comp.jpg

And you're welcome. :O:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Lza3NVH6Ig&feature=related

Or if you're a little more modern-minded...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXQ4tRlYgM0&feature=related

LOL :DL

Oh it'll cost me when we're out shopping at the weekend.....you can bet on that :doh:

[poetic hunter]

Wow, what a pleasant surprise to see such helpful responses. They are enough to give me a new burst of inspiration to continue on ! :DL


If after all that, you still need more, go buy an xbox.


Ok, you are not the only person who said something that borders on snide sarcasm, but even if you're joking, remember that there is a specific reason why I called the thread "perspective from a complete newbie."

That's the mindset from which I'm playing the game, and the reason for that was explained in post 1.

Please try and understand...in most games, you're usually given clear objectives as to what to do. But in so called open-ended games like Morrowind, even though you have objectives, you can do whatever you want. However, if you're brand new to Morrowind, you're better off sticking to the main quest line at least for the early quests until you know the land better.

In SH 3, after GWX, you can also "do whatever you want." But you have the seemingly endless expanse of the ocean at your disposal ! :o

Can't you guys see how from the perspective of a new person, this "do whatever you want" objective style is more than a bit daunting. That person wouldn't know where the "Hot spots" you guys keep referring to are. He/She wouldn't know where to go find the hot spots with convoys, enemy ship patrols etc. Therefore the "Do whatever you want !" mission style is daunting in the beginning.


You guys have been extremely helpful otherwise, and the maturity of the people on this board is refreshing compared to what most game-related boards are like.

[frau kaleun]

Can't you guys see how from the perspective of a new person, this "do whatever you want" objective style is more than a bit daunting. That person wouldn't know where the "Hot spots" you guys keep referring to are. He/She wouldn't know where to go find the hot spots with convoys, enemy ship patrols etc. Therefore the "Do whatever you want !" mission style is daunting in the beginning.

Protip: In GWX, in the NavMap view, if you look up into the top left hand corner of the screen you will see the "corners" of several "cheat sheets" you can use during the game. A couple of them are listings of how far a vessel will travel in so many mins/hrs if it is going so many knots. One has charts of the mines and subnets of Axis ports. Very handy.

Now, the one that is all the way to the left, right up in the corner with the darker tan-colored edge - PULL THAT ONE DOWN!!! It's your map of the SH3 world, but with all the historical (and in-game) shipping routes clearly marked for your viewing pleasure. It also denotes areas of high Allied naval traffic and the areas in which you can expect to find Allied air cover during different time periods between 1939-45.

If you want to leave your assigned grid and go hang around a likely hot spot looking for Allied shipping, this is the best way for a n00b to find one.

Also keep in mind that if you are patrolling around the British Isles, your biggest source of tonnage (and primary objective in terms of enemy shipping) will be ships on their way in and out of British ports. If you are patrolling in the Atlantic (as opposed to the North Sea), a quick glance at the map will tell you where the choke points for all that shipping are. In order to get to Great Britain from the open Atlantic (and vice versa), ships MUST pass around either to the north or south of Ireland.

These areas - to the west, north, and south of Ireland, more or less - make up the famous Western Approaches.

http://img.freebase.com/api/trans/image_thumb/wikipedia/images/commons_id/7324826?maxheight=510&mode=fit&maxwidth=510


Much good hunting to be found there. All shipping inbound or outbound to/from Liverpool, for instance, must pass through here to reach the open Atlantic (and that's a lot of shipping, including convoys).

The area to the southeast of the one marked in that pic, where the southern English Channel opens up into the Atlantic Ocean, is also good for ships going to/from ports along the south of England and the Channel coast.

[Jimbuna]

Wow, what a pleasant surprise to see such helpful responses. They are enough to give me a new burst of inspiration to continue on ! :DL



Ok, you are not the only person who said something that borders on snide sarcasm, but even if you're joking, remember that there is a specific reason why I called the thread "perspective from a complete newbie."

That's the mindset from which I'm playing the game, and the reason for that was explained in post 1.

Please try and understand...in most games, you're usually given clear objectives as to what to do. But in so called open-ended games like Morrowind, even though you have objectives, you can do whatever you want. However, if you're brand new to Morrowind, you're better off sticking to the main quest line at least for the early quests until you know the land better.

In SH 3, after GWX, you can also "do whatever you want." But you have the seemingly endless expanse of the ocean at your disposal ! :o

Can't you guys see how from the perspective of a new person, this "do whatever you want" objective style is more than a bit daunting. That person wouldn't know where the "Hot spots" you guys keep referring to are. He/She wouldn't know where to go find the hot spots with convoys, enemy ship patrols etc. Therefore the "Do whatever you want !" mission style is daunting in the beginning.


You guys have been extremely helpful otherwise, and the maturity of the people on this board is refreshing compared to what most game-related boards are like.


I know nothing of your background or knowledge base when it comes to the subject of U-boat warfare during WWII but I'll readily concede it can be a little daunting getting used to the game otherwise, hence my advice that you read the GWX manual.

Another piece I'll offer is the suggestion you get the SpySat nav from my FF account...this will inform you of where most of the traffic is by regularly updating your nav map.

Be advised...it can be a game/immersion killer http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[flag4]

I bit the bullet and printed it because I'd rather have a hard copy to refer to than scroll through a pdf file - easier on my eyes. Plus it's very handy if I need to look something up and I have the game running.

And actually it looks like a lot of folks beat us to the punch! :DL

just out of interest Frau Kaleun, how long did it take to print off. i quite like the idea of having it in my hand (careful!) especially when game is running. maybe you could put up a photo of it? bet it looks like the bible - (it is the bible!)
bet its worth a bob or two on ebay!

[frau kaleun]

just out of interest Frau Kaleun, how long did it take to print off. i quite like the idea of having it in my hand (careful!) especially when game is running. maybe you could put up a photo of it? bet it looks like the bible - (it is the bible!)
bet its worth a bob or two on ebay!

It's hard to say because it was done over a long stretch of time, in sections... but hours and hours.

Of course the worst part was that I started printing out the regular manual, part of the way through I found out about the one that doesn' have all the background imagery on each page. After I got that printing went MUCH faster and took much less ink.

I'll see if I can take a pic with my phone and email it to myself and post it.

[Draka]

WARNING - HIJACKING IN PROGRESS

Funny you should mention Morrowind - I run that as one of my all-time favorite games - with 246 plugins ATM! Starting with Better Bodies (nude) and working up from there ....

Now imagine that you were brand new to Morrowind, and no one at the docks was there to tell you about Caius Colades - that you had to discover him on yer own (one of the Alternative Beginnings plugins). THAT is the situation with SH - ya gotta find out everything on yer own.

[Jimbuna]

Of course the worst part was that I started printing out the regular manual, part of the way through I found out about the one that doesn' have all the background imagery on each page. After I got that printing went MUCH faster and took much less ink.



LOL :DL

If anyone is interested, both standalone versions (with and without the watermark) are available from my FF page.

[frau kaleun]

I'll see if I can take a pic with my phone and email it to myself and post it.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=158&pictureid=3043

Yes my phone takes crappy pictures. That's because it's a phone, not a camera, and a million-year-old hand-me-down phone at that.:O:

The notebook lying open contains about 1/2 of the manual, printed out. The one behind it standing upright has the other half. The "stack" of pages you see filling the one notebook is about 2 1/2 inches high.

[Sailor Steve]

Single or double-sided?

[frau kaleun]

Single or double-sided?

Each page is printed out on a separate sheet, but then I put each pair of consecutive pages back to back inside a clear plastic sleeve - makes it much easier to flip through and avoids having to punch holes in the pages which then get torn up with use and age and start to fall out of the notebook.

In theory I could've printed two pages per sheet of paper and used only half as much paper - but I still would've used the same number of sleeves. And I really didn't want to deal with trying to print on both sides, my printer's not set up for that unless I'm willing to print a small batch and then turn the same paper over and around and put it back through and given the number of pages involved, I wasn't willing to sit here and do that every few minutes.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

TOTALLY jealous of you FK!

Still hoping I can afford to print myself a GWX manual one of these days! :damn:

:arrgh!:

[frau kaleun]

TOTALLY jealous of you FK!

Still hoping I can afford to print myself a GWX manual one of these days! :damn:

:arrgh!:

I stopped counting after the second ink cartridge.

And anyway, I hear that whole "bread and water for 30 days" diet is really really good for you! :O:

[vanjast]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=158&pictureid=3043


Yoooouuuu are not serious... !!!!

[frau kaleun]

Yoooouuuu are not serious... !!!!

http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/loldogs-funny-dog-pictures-im-seriousthis-is-my-serious-face.jpg


644 pages. :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Quite a Herculean effort if I may say so http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[Herr-Berbunch]

@Frau - It would probably have been cheaper, and quicker to nip down to your nearest PC store and buy a cheap laptop just for this one PDF, then you'd also have the advantage of Ctrl+F-ing (not being rude!) to search for something specific.

Otherwise :o

@Poetic Hunter - I did add my little caveat on the end of not wishing to cause offense (or words to that effect), and I'm sorry if it did sound a little harsh - people nowadays seem to want it all immediately and with subsims it's not just a shooting gallery but it takes time and effort. I was new too and it can be daunting! There is good advice in reading the manuals, written by users not publishers, and advice plastered all over this forum and I think I took your 'rant' (for want of a better word) to be slating my beloved :D, once again - sorry :yep:

[JokerOfFate]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=158&pictureid=3043


Pocket sized!

I tried printing it and it jammed my printer :down:

[frau kaleun]

@Frau - It would probably have been cheaper, and quicker to nip down to your nearest PC store and buy a cheap laptop just for this one PDF, then you'd also have the advantage of Ctrl+F-ing (not being rude!) to search for something specific.

Lol, but the whole point of printing it out was so I could read it or search through it without having to go all squinty peering at a computer screen. I do that with anything that's more than a few pages long and which I know I'm going to want to look at repeatedly and to which I may want or need immediate and easy access. It's much easier on my eyes and far more convenient for me personally.

I have the stock game's manual (such as it is) and the Commander manual printed out for the exact same reason, in addition to a small collection of tipsheets and tutorials.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Lol, but the whole point of printing it out was so I could read it or search through it without having to go all squinty peering at a computer screen. I do that with anything that's more than a few pages long and which I know I'm going to want to look at repeatedly and to which I may want or need immediate and easy access. It's much easier on my eyes and far more convenient for me personally.

I have the stock game's manual (such as it is) and the Commander manual printed out for the exact same reason, in addition to a small collection of tipsheets and tutorials.

Do you have shares in HP/Xerox/Epson/etc...? A papermill? A forest? :D

I occasionally wish I had a printed copy to hand, but not enough to actually print it - not even at work! :nope:

[frau kaleun]

Lol, what actually might've been cheaper would've been to take it somewhere like Kinko's or some similar service joint and let them print it. But I so rarely have a major print job at home that I didn't think about it. :doh:

[poetic hunter]

Apparently, my previous installation of SH3 was bugged , and I think that goes a long way to explain some of the frustrations I documented in this thread.

I recently re-installed SH3 and things are going much, much better this time around. :rock:

1. For the first time I actually encountered airpolanes on my patrol. I then saw a screen that gave me three options like: a) engage the enemy b) maintain current orders c) dive to periscope depth. This alone proves that my previous installation had to have been bugged because I NEVER saw that screen which gives you three options when you encounter an enemy.

2. I now detect ships that are actually there. In my previous installation, I would spend real-life hours upon hours going on patrol after patrol, and never once engaged in a proper fight. I would detect ships on my map screen, but these were almost always false alarms or phantom ships that weren't actually there. :06: This leads to number 3.

3. I realize that going over TC 256 messes up the enemy detection system on the map screen. This time I always stay below 256 TC on the map screen and I detect enemy aircrafts and ships just fine.


I don't know if it's just my compouter, but 256 time compression is the magic number. If I go above that speed, my enemy detection gets messed up which leads to phantom ships on my map that aren't actually there.

----------------

I just had a very enjoyable battle with a huge cargo ship that survived two torpedoes. I had to finish her off with the deck gun. I never had an encounter like this on my previous installation, which again drives home the point that something was messed up somewhere.

I also watched Das Boot for the first time, and I'm really looking forward to playing some more. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like certain parts of SH 3 was directly inspired by that movie :DL ?

[Sailor Steve]

I also watched Das Boot for the first time, and I'm really looking forward to playing some more.
:o

Dang! I think I've watched the Uncut version at least four times a year since I bought it six years ago! And that's after watching the original on VHS over and over again, and the Director's Cut countless times in between!

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like certain parts of SH 3 was directly inspired by that movie :DL ?
Certain parts of Aces Of The Deep, released sixteen years ago, were directly inspired by that movie.
:rotfl2:

[reignofdeath]

I did...and that's the problem! As I explained in that long post, the tutorial videos are useless, and some of the academy lessons are still difficult to complete for a new player because many things aren't explained at all. There is help available online, but much of it seems geared towards people who are already familiar and not for complete newbies.

From only starting playing this game a few weeks ago the best advice I can offer you is to play around with the game itself by this I mean make career and use tactics that intentionally get you killed. The more you play the more you learn, Ive went from knowing absolutely nothing in two weeks to enough to survive a career. As far at the hunt page, if you look farther in the posts of that page a man posted a very easy to read diagram which I copied and referenced every time I needed an intercept (used different colors for each step and such) He didnt explain WHY you used the steps just what to do, which is what I think your looking for. All I can say is that after days (yes at the moment I have time on my hands) of playing and interceptions (successes and failures) it has become second nature to me to intercept ships now and I rarely ever need to use the diagram, save for when I have a small brain fart. Its like muscle memory, do what youre shown (especially if it's simple) enough times, and your body does it without thinking, I caught myself yesterday catching report of a convoy and instantly almost in my head Id figured out around where (within a few kilometers like 30 or so) Id need to intercept. The best advice I can give you is to keep on trying and if that isnt working out keep on asking questions, if you need help with seeing things in a simpler manner (ie. Interception) I might be able to help explain them to you, just send me a PM. However things like manual targetting I cant do, I keep auto targeting for now, and soon I shall turn that off and use the W/A (pretty much like auto, just you have to get your officer to range and set it all in, so in actually its auto with a few more button presses, at least I believe so some one correct me if I'm wrong)

PS: Another thing I'd do is start learning tactics, again by getting yourself killed, I just made a new career and took a Type IX down to about 260 Meters for a few minutes just to see how long I'd survive and how deep I could dive.

Hope that helps and best of lucks Herr Kaulen :salute:

[Sailor Steve]

From only starting playing this game a few weeks ago the best advice I can offer you is to play around with the game itself by this I mean make career and use tactics that intentionally get you killed. The more you play the more you learn, Ive went from knowing absolutely nothing in two weeks to enough to survive a career.
Excellent advice, and not something an old-timer like me would have thought of! :rock:

You're right. It's a game, and playing and failing is the best training there is, since we can't get hurt doing it. I have the advantage of having played sub sims since 1986, almost twenty years before SH3 was released. This means I had an idea of what was going on, and could jump right in.

But someone new has to learn from scratch, and the two best ways to do that are to ask questions here, and as Casey just said, try and try again until you understand what's going on.

[reignofdeath]

Excellent advice, and not something an old-timer like me would have thought of! :rock:

You're right. It's a game, and playing and failing is the best training there is, since we can't get hurt doing it. I have the advantage of having played sub sims since 1986, almost twenty years before SH3 was released. This means I had an idea of what was going on, and could jump right in.

But someone new has to learn from scratch, and the two best ways to do that are to ask questions here, and as Casey just said, try and try again until you understand what's going on.

Well watching and really loving Das Boot game me a heads up on some stuff ;)

But since youve been playing them since 86, I have to ask what was that like?? I was born in 91' :p I didnt even think they made actual 'sims' in 86, just blips on screen and all hmm :hmmm:

[Draka]

Silent Service - MicroProse - Commodore 64 - Google it! LOL! That was my first taste of being a submariner. 1985 .....

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Service_%28video_game%29

[reignofdeath]

Wow my first experience was Wolfpack, I loved that game :) then I lost sub games for a few years and got sub command, I honestly hated that, then Enigma Rising Tide, eh I was indifferent to that, and then the SH series, thank god I stumbled upon this thread and got this game I love it. errr simulation :up:


@POETIC HUNTER; just in case you read this thread and look at the top and notice its been slightly hijacked, look at my post a posts down and hopefully that will help :up:

[Sailor Steve]

Yep, Silent Service. Actually a pretty good sim. The "campaign" consisted of dragging your sub icon around the Pacific looking for encounters. That said, the encounters were a lot of fun, and it had a good feel to it.

In 1994 came Aces Of The Deep, arguably the first "real" subsim, since it introduced the random campaign. You started out in a Type II u-boat and could progress to better boats, or start a career later in the war. I still play it from time to time.

The original Silent Hunter, released in 1996, was a Pacific-based riff on Aces, with newer graphics and sound and a campaign that let you start in any month of the war.

Those two still have certain items that have been lost in later Silent Hunters, and are sorely missed, but SH3's combination of modability and graphics is pretty much unbeatable so far.

[reignofdeath]

Yep, Silent Service. Actually a pretty good sim. The "campaign" consisted of dragging your sub icon around the Pacific looking for encounters. That said, the encounters were a lot of fun, and it had a good feel to it.

In 1994 came Aces Of The Deep, arguably the first "real" subsim, since it introduced the random campaign. You started out in a Type II u-boat and could progress to better boats, or start a career later in the war. I still play it from time to time.

The original Silent Hunter, released in 1996, was a Pacific-based riff on Aces, with newer graphics and sound and a campaign that let you start in any month of the war.

Those two still have certain items that have been lost in later Silent Hunters, and are sorely missed, but SH3's combination of modability and graphics is pretty much unbeatable so far.

yeah I was reading about them and saw that like if you took on water and it got on your batteries youd kill your crew from the gas that formed and stuff. Now thats realism.

Funny thing my uncle was joking around with me one day and stated
"They need to make games more real, like if youre playing a playstation game and take a bullet to the head, the game should eject from the Playstation and snap, no restarts and youd have to start all over again!!"

Always makes me chuckle when I imagine a SNES shooting its cartridge out and blowing up in mid air :arrgh!:

[Sailor Steve]

yeah I was reading about them and saw that like if you took on water and it got on your batteries youd kill your crew from the gas that formed and stuff. Now thats realism.
One of the tricks you could pull in AOTD was to sit on the bottom in shallow water, and the asdic would lose you amid the bottom clutter. On the other hand I died more than once because I got stuck in the mud and couldn't get loose.

Funny thing my uncle was joking around with me one day and stated
"They need to make games more real, like if youre playing a playstation game and take a bullet to the head, the game should eject from the Playstation and snap, no restarts and youd have to start all over again!!"

Always makes me chuckle when I imagine a SNES shooting its cartridge out and blowing up in mid air :arrgh!:
We had a thread in which someone was asking how to play with absolute realism. I suggested that he keep in mind that real sailors could lose their lives. I didn't say he should go that far, but think about the idea of dieing in the game and putting it away and not playing for a year. That might make him a little more careful.

[poetic hunter]

From only starting playing this game a few weeks ago the best advice I can offer you is to play around with the game itself by this I mean make career and use tactics that intentionally get you killed.


Thanks for your understanding. Speaking of learning from mistakes, I just had a Das Boot moment. I attacked a ship from periscope depth, and instead of running away the thing started charging towards me! Before I knew it, it was right on top of me and smashed my deck and flak guns to oblivion. I decided to dive down below, and rig for silent running, but the ship started pinging for me. I heard beep beep until, boom. Depth charges took out my sonar and radio. Then I started leaking in my command room. I was surprised that the game actually depicted the water coming out from the pipes in the command room. Very nice touch there. Unfortunately, there was no way to recover from that "mistake." I lost my entire crew to the merciless depths of the never-ending blue.

This is the very first time I ever got attacked by a (destroyer?), so there was definitely something wrong with my previous installation. I'm having a lot more intense but fun moments on my patrol this time around. In fact, I've had more encounters on this one patrol, than I had in about seventeen patrols on my previous installation. :o

[reignofdeath]

This is true. Id hate that though. Lol itd be hard to get any experience because we all know bernard would make a plotting mistake and run us into land first patrol

[reignofdeath]

Thanks for your understanding. Speaking of learning from mistakes, I just had a Das Boot moment. I attacked a ship from periscope depth, and instead of running away the thing started charging towards me! Before I knew it, it was right on top of me and smashed my deck and flak guns to oblivion. I decided to dive down below, and rig for silent running, but the ship started pinging for me. I heard beep beep until, boom. Depth charges took out my sonar and radio. Then I started leaking in my command room. I was surprised that the game actually depicted the water coming out from the pipes in the command room. Very nice touch there. Unfortunately, there was no way to recover from that "mistake." I lost my entire crew to the merciless depths of the never-ending blue.

This is the very first time I ever got attacked by a (destroyer?), so there was definitely something wrong with my previous installation. I'm having a lot more intense but fun moments on my patrol this time around. In fact, I've had more encounters on this one patrol, than I had in about seventeen patrols on my previous installation. :o

Thats good. general rule of thumb, especially if you have GWX. dont attack destroyers, I dont like doing it even in deep water, I tried it once and I may try it again just to see if I can sink them but as far as being depthcharged goes heres what I understand.

1) Face him head on (presents the smallest target
2) run silent and manually set for 1 knot (so you run under 50 rpms and he cant 'hear' you
3)dive as deep as possible
3) when he makes his run (when you hear depth charges hit the water) change depth, and crank up to full speed, then do a hard knuckle left or right, depending on which way he turns after the attack, but as soon as you evade the DCs level out and kick it back down to 1 knot.

Am I correct to you older more experienced Kaulens?

And if you need help PH, like I said just send a PM and I'll try and help ya out

[frau kaleun]

I also watched Das Boot for the first time, and I'm really looking forward to playing some more. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like certain parts of SH 3 was directly inspired by that movie :DL ?

It's a funny thing... if I watch Das Boot, it makes me want to play SH3.

If I spend enough time playing SH3, it makes me want to watch Das Boot.

:up:

[JokerOfFate]

Same for me, thats what made me come back to sh3, Das Boot.