I hate this "destroyed by pressure" [Archive]

fastfed

09-05-10, 01:12 AM

I have been depth charged for over an hour now by 4 DD's, and its really annoying.. Some times I can dive to 150m and sometimes I cannot even make it to 110m (I keep reloading, I don't play dead is dead)

its really annoying why this happens.. I understand my hull could of been damaged, but nothing is broke as of now.. And eventually if I pass a certain point (130m or so) I start to hear the stupid electrical noise and then BAM, instant death screen, with Destroyed by pressure..

Its really annoying..

I am also trying everything.. Cruising at 50rpms or even less, making my depth random, and no matter what, eventually within an hour (about 30 minutes game time, as you can tell why I am so annoyed) I DIE!!

I feel like surfacing and just taking my chances with my deck gun (LOL)

I am also turning (no more than 5 degrees rudder) every which way, and dropping decoys (are they even useful? If so whats the trick with them?)

Can someone give me some advice please? Thanks guys!

edit* BTW its 1942 and GWX3, in a VIIB and I just sunk a nice fat bogue class carrier and I don't want to reload before this.. :(

CherryHarbey

09-05-10, 01:45 AM

Do you know what your Hull Integrity % on crew/damage management screen is or is it hidden??
Even if you don't know for sure, I strongly suspect your pressure hull is damaged and it only gets repaired in port. Even if you are not showing any damaged components any more.
If that is true and you can't get past 130m , the chances of evading 4 DDs are slim (or closer to none).
If you still want to keep your carrier score then I'd recommend giving up on trying to go deep and try to evade the destroyers at 110m (or whatever your deepest safe depth is) like you said, 50rpm, turns and flank speed during the depth charge runs. Sorry to say I don't fancy your chances. Good Luck.

Snestorm

09-05-10, 05:07 AM

This goes against the grain of many here, but it's my method.

Set turns at 90 RPM. That is, a hair under 2 knots.
(This was the actual Silent Speed for Type IXs. Don't know about Type VIIs.)
Refrain from turning as much as possible. It interferes with evacuation of the vicinity.
In the case of your hull, I would consider 100m.
(If 130m is at/about your limit, your hull is already an eggshell at 100m.)

At 50 RPM (Dead Slow) you will travel 3 miles (about 6000m) in 3 hours.
(Not good).
At 90 RPM (Silent Speed) you will travel 6 miles (about 12000m) in three hours.
(Better).
At 50 RPM they always know where to find you. Right where they left you.

Mittelwaechter

09-05-10, 07:03 AM

The decoys/bolds are good for iritating a DD. Releasing one bold increases your chance to stay undetected for the duration of the bubblescreen by 50%. But it attracts a second DD to investigate the area. If you release a second bold a third DD will show up and search for you and so on.

One lonely DD is distracted with one or two bolds and you'll have time to move away.

DDs of an convoy escort screen will call for help if you release a bold. May be useful after some time dealing with only one watchdog. The second DD will need some time to reach your position and you'll have better chances to get rid of No.1. Still close to the convoy maybe not the best option.

Jimbuna

09-05-10, 09:45 AM

It'll be pretty hard to shake off 4 dogs that have your scent....just like it must have been in RL.

One method would be to save the game then reinstall the save, the DD's will more than likely lose their waypoints but you'll also run the risk of experiencing the 'dive of death' phenomena.

K-61

09-05-10, 07:53 PM

U777

09-05-10, 07:58 PM

For an undamaged VIIC what's the farthest depth I could dare go (and I mean the farthest)? With 100% integrity is the das boot scenario of going beyond the gauge even possible?

fastfed

09-05-10, 10:01 PM

For an undamaged VIIC what's the farthest depth I could dare go (and I mean the farthest)? With 100% integrity is the das boot scenario of going beyond the gauge even possible?

YEP!!!

I went to 300 and brought the TC to 128, and was fine, until about 30 seconds real time.. Then I died.. But was able to do it for a good 10 minutes (game time)

BTW can someone tell me what the random max depth deal is on commander? THANKS!!

Sailor Steve

09-06-10, 12:00 AM

...and I just sunk a nice fat bogue class carrier...
Then you are dealing with a hunter/killer group and the destroyers are almost certainly at least veteran, possibly elite, and they are not happy with you at all.

BTW can someone tell me what the random max depth deal is on commander? THANKS!!
Max depths are randomized because in real life there was no perfect maximum depth, and only one way to find out how deep that really was. Some boats came back claiming extreme dives. Others didn't come back, and we don't know why.

Snestorm

09-06-10, 01:52 AM

For an undamaged VIIC what's the farthest depth I could dare go (and I mean the farthest)? With 100% integrity is the das boot scenario of going beyond the gauge even possible?

It's completely dependent on how, and if, your install is modded.
Most mods alter the max depth, to your benefit, but not all mods use the same figures.
Be very careful in trying to apply someone elses experiences to your sim.
(Consider it as the differences in workmanship on each boat.)

U777

09-06-10, 02:05 AM

It's completely dependent on how, and if, your install is modded.
Most mods alter the max depth, to your benefit, but not all mods use the same figures.
Be very careful in trying to apply someone elses experiences to your sim.
(Consider it as the differences in workmanship on each boat.)

I use GWX with a few non related GWX mods and the lifeboat mod. Randomize crush depth remains unchecked along with the stock SH3 VIIC. I think if required I'll only go halfway across the red zone in an extreme emergency.

Snestorm

09-06-10, 02:26 AM

I use GWX with a few non related GWX mods and the lifeboat mod. Randomize crush depth remains unchecked along with the stock SH3 VIIC. I think if required I'll only go halfway across the red zone in an extreme emergency.

I can't go as deep as you.
I usualy keep my IX (A), B, or Cs at 100m. (33 seconds for DC)
If I come across a sharp ASW vessel/group, I'll let her slide to 120m. (40 seconds for DC)
If things get realy desperate 150m (50 seconds for DC).
165m (55 seconds for DC) is as far as I'll let the boat slide down before starting up again.

(Keep in mind that I usualy try to drive IXBs, which are the shallowest divers of the big boats.)

KeineK

09-06-10, 03:27 AM

Snestorm

09-06-10, 07:31 AM

I've used an IXB for most of my time playing the game, and I regularly push 260-280 when the escorts won't give up. I've hit 310, but started taking hull damage after that. Even with a bit of hull damage I can manage a good 240m or so. A temperamental mistress, the IXB can be, your results may vary.

Your results can vary is right.
What mods are you running?
(Those numbers are not even close, for a stock install.)

KeineK

09-06-10, 01:20 PM

Your results can vary is right.
What mods are you running?
(Those numbers are not even close, for a stock install.)

GWX3, SH3C with randomized crush depth.

Jimbuna

09-06-10, 01:51 PM

I've used an IXB for most of my time playing the game, and I regularly push 260-280 when the escorts won't give up. I've hit 310, but started taking hull damage after that. Even with a bit of hull damage I can manage a good 240m or so. A temperamental mistress, the IXB can be, your results may vary.

GWX3, SH3C with randomized crush depth.

Pretty close to the figures I've experienced....same game additions, obviously http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

ediko

09-07-10, 10:05 AM

VIIC easily took me to 260m without a any damage. Stayed there for 30 minutes and went back to periscope depth. So I don't have any problems with pressure. Just make sure your hull is 100% and if not don't go ( or try not to go) below recommended depth of your boat.

Hangman

09-07-10, 10:39 AM

I'm curious, I've watched videos with Toppe, and have read several documents and books regarding being depth charged; and they have all said basically the same thing. The only worry they had was the depth charge getting below them or a direct hit. If it was along side, they'd get jostled a bit, If it was above them, they'd get jostled a bit. But if the DC landed on the deck and then detonated, or if it detonated close below them, then they took severe damage.

I am assuming the game & mods (Stock SH3, GWX, LSH3v5, etc) have not taken this into account ??
What are the explosive ranges of the DC's in the stock and GWX?? How close do they have to be to your boat to get a damage ??

In most of the books and documents I've read, and even in one of the video's of Toppe, they mentioned that early on in the war, the DC's were always short, or they were not set deep enough and the uboats would always glide away underneath them. Is this set in the game this way as well ?
Also, the DC's early on in the war were considered weak or of low explosive power. It wasn't until 41-42 that they had a much stronger explosion and would cause some serious damage if they got close enough.

Anyway, just my thoughts on the subject, don't mean to hijack the thread. :)

K-61

09-07-10, 11:45 AM

Although there were some kills from "dead on" hits from DC's, most of the time it was accumulated damage which forced a U-boat to the surface that resulted in the loss of the boat. For example, cracked battery cells released their contents into the bilge, which mixed with sea water and created chlorine gas, forcing an emergency surface. Later in the war, when the Allies could take the time to prosecute a contace to conclusion, U-boats were forced to surface due to low air or batteries. Aerial depth charges initially caused little damage, as their depth settings were too shallow. When they increased the detonation depth to 50' they achieved more kills, as the DC's went off below a U-boat which had just commenced its emergency dive. Probably the best ASW weapon deployed from ships was the Hedgehog, as it could often be deployed while the pinging escort still had ASDIC contact. Hedgehog attacks were four times as successful as DC attacks. If I recall correctly, DC's had a three percent success rate whereas Hedgehog had a twelve percent success rate; I believe these figures were cited in Clay Blair's two volume set.

fastfed

09-07-10, 12:46 PM

Snestorm

09-07-10, 01:05 PM

In the beginning of the war, for a boat to dive over 900!!! FEET! was impossible, or so the allies thought.. I mean 300 feet was a lot to the allies, no way was the Uboat able to go that deep.. Little did they know and hence the always coming short DC's

Its still makes me wonder to this day.. As high tech as the gato class was 300-400 feet was about all she could go..

Difference in hull design and priorities.
A tube is the best design for withstanding pressure.
Uboat: 4 forward tubes = round pressure hull = stronger design.
Others: 6 forward tubes = egg shape pressure hull = weakened design.

There are other factors such as steel quality and thickness, weld quality, etc.
Everything is a trade off and balancing act.

ediko

09-07-10, 01:10 PM

Wait... seriously the Gato could only do 90m ? :har: never knew that.
I mean I just took my uboat to 260m that's almost 3 times as much! Were the uboats really able to go that deep and US submarines so little? :hmmm:

Sailor Steve

09-07-10, 01:20 PM

Its still makes me wonder to this day.. As high tech as the gato class was 300-400 feet was about all she could go..

Wait... seriously the Gato could only do 90m ? :har: never knew that.
I mean I just took my uboat to 260m that's almost 3 times as much! Were the uboats really able to go that deep and US submarines so little? :hmmm:
The simple answer is that it's not true. Look at the 'Green' part of a German depth guage. The test depth is usually around 90-100 meters. That's all they were rated for. But they went much deeper.

Likewise 300 feet was what a Gato was rated for, 400 for a Balao and 450 for a Tench. It was commonly accepted wisdom that those boats were good for twice the listed depth, and there were occasions where fleet boats went to at least 750 feet, which is 230 meters.

So yes, the bigger fleet boats couldn't go as deep as a Type VII, but neither could a Type IX.

As for depth charges in the game, the stock kill distance is 25 meters, with the max radius for damage being 75 meters. The supermods, as far as I know, set the kill radius to a much more realistic 8 meters, and the damage radius at 25. This means that to get an instant kill they must be much closer, and more importantly that you can get a drubbing that lasts all day and still get away alive, which is what happened most of the time.

Hangman

09-07-10, 02:18 PM

...
As for depth charges in the game, the stock kill distance is 25 meters, with the max radius for damage being 75 meters. The supermods, as far as I know, set the kill radius to a much more realistic 8 meters, and the damage radius at 25. This means that to get an instant kill they must be much closer, and more importantly that you can get a drubbing that lasts all day and still get away alive, which is what happened most of the time.

That seems a better assessment. 25 meters for the DC kill is a long distance, even for late war DC's although by late 43 and on, I believe a decent kill from a DC would be at roughly 15+ meters with a damage radius at somewhere's in the neighborhood of 30 meters +/-.

K-61

09-07-10, 02:23 PM

Excellent posts, Sailor Steve and Snestorm. Good, accurate info.

ediko

09-07-10, 04:39 PM

The simple answer is that it's not true. Look at the 'Green' part of a German depth guage. The test depth is usually around 90-100 meters. That's all they were rated for. But they went much deeper.

Likewise 300 feet was what a Gato was rated for, 400 for a Balao and 450 for a Tench. It was commonly accepted wisdom that those boats were good for twice the listed depth, and there were occasions where fleet boats went to at least 750 feet, which is 230 meters.

So yes, the bigger fleet boats couldn't go as deep as a Type VII, but neither could a Type IX.

As for depth charges in the game, the stock kill distance is 25 meters, with the max radius for damage being 75 meters. The supermods, as far as I know, set the kill radius to a much more realistic 8 meters, and the damage radius at 25. This means that to get an instant kill they must be much closer, and more importantly that you can get a drubbing that lasts all day and still get away alive, which is what happened most of the time.
Well that cleared it up a bit. But still as far as I saw the VII test depth was pretty big ~230m if I'm correct and crush depth as deep as 270m which still is a lot compared to fleet boats. Well US did have a bigger and better fleet though... as were most of the countries Germany was fighting with. Kaleuns still need to be respected for fighting in such unfavorable odds.

fastfed

09-07-10, 05:56 PM

Well that cleared it up a bit. But still as far as I saw the VII test depth was pretty big ~230m if I'm correct and crush depth as deep as 270m which still is a lot compared to fleet boats. Well US did have a bigger and better fleet though... as were most of the countries Germany was fighting with. Kaleuns still need to be respected for fighting in such unfavorable odds.

Better?? I don't agree.. USA had many things that were in a league of their own :ping: < Being one, but Germany had excellent technology and much STRONGER machines. They just lacked in the production department.. Obviously thanks to our detroit :)

fastfed

09-07-10, 05:58 PM

Also, why is it every where I read the test depth was MUCH MORE than 90-100 Meters?

for example, just a quick google search comes out with this

Test depth: 230 m (750 ft)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Type_VII_submarine#cite_note-Uboat.net-0)
Calculated crush depth: 250–295 m (820–968 ft)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Type_VII_submarine#cite_note-Uboat.net-0)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Type_VII_submarine

U777

09-07-10, 05:58 PM

I do like the fact that the US subs carried an escape trunk. Much better than simply flooding the compartment in U-boats.

fastfed

09-07-10, 05:59 PM

I do like the fact that the US subs carried an escape trunk. Much better than simply flooding the compartment in U-boats.

Well if I had to choose, It would be an American sub FOR SURE!! just for the A/C!! lol

U777

09-07-10, 06:04 PM

Well if I had to choose, It would be an American sub FOR SURE!! just for the A/C!! lol

They had A/C in WWII subs?! SOLD!

K-61

09-07-10, 06:56 PM

Not only AC, they also had ice cream makers! :rock:

U777

09-07-10, 06:58 PM

Not only AC, they also had ice cream makers! :rock:

Yep the Silent Service was known for the best chow in the US military. As for the AC it now makes sense since they operated in the blazing pacific heat, those subs would turn into a pressure cooker without it.

K-61

09-07-10, 07:29 PM

Same thing with tanks, only they don't have enough room for ice cream makers. Our guys [Canada] in Afghanistan were cooking inside their Leopards, so our gov't leased 20 Leos from Germany that have AC. Combat efficiency greatly degrades when your guys are in peril of heat stroke. Just look at Charlie Sheen in "Platoon."

Edit: Huh? Why do I have a Japanese avatar? This is one interesting forum. Here I was thinking some forum members were Japanese because of their avatars, now I am Japanese. It reminds me of that song from a few years back, "I Think I'm Turning Japanese."

fastfed

09-07-10, 09:57 PM

LOL I have the same avatar!

BTW, I was reading something very interesting.. It seems the reason the US subs had A/C was because the electronics kept shorting out.. It was just a bonus that the crew was cool inside..

But the only reason was the for electronics.. Which had me thinking.. The Germans and I think all the other nations, submarines had NO A/C, I wonder how they fixed the shorts ( I guess condensation would form all over the electrics due to the humidity )

Plus, the Americans got to take a shower every 8 or so days ( Unless you were a Mechanic or Cook, then you got to shower every other day )