Washington Times: Impeach Obama

[GoldenRivet]

In an "opinion piece" that received authorization and approval from the Washington Times "top brass", which subsequently went to print and circulation in one of the top ten news papers in the United States (and even finds its way into the inbox of every sitting senator and congressman in DC)... contributor and columnist Jeffery T. Kuhner made a case for impeachment of the Mr. Obama.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jul/22/the-case-for-impeachment-142967590/?page=1

President Obama has engaged in numerous high crimes and misdemeanors. The Democratic majority in Congress is in peril as Americans reject his agenda. Yet more must be done: Mr. Obama should be impeached.

He is slowly - piece by painful piece - erecting a socialist dictatorship. We are not there - yet. But he is putting America on that dangerous path. He is undermining our constitutional system of checks and balances; subverting democratic procedures and the rule of law; presiding over a corrupt, gangster regime; and assaulting the very pillars of traditional capitalism. Like Venezuela's leftist strongman, Hugo Chavez, Mr. Obama is bent on imposing a revolution from above - one that is polarizing America along racial, political and ideological lines. Mr. Obama is the most divisive president since Richard Nixon. His policies are Balkanizing the country. It's time for him to go.


He has abused his office and violated his oath to uphold the Constitution. His health care overhaul was rammed through Congress. It was - and remains - opposed by a majority of the people. It could only be passed through bribery and political intimidation. The Louisiana Purchase, the Cornhusker Kickback, the $5 billion Medicaid set-aside for Florida Sen. Bill Nelson - taxpayer money was used as a virtual slush fund to buy swing votes. Moreover, the law is blatantly unconstitutional: The federal government does not have the right to coerce every citizen to purchase a good or service. This is not in the Constitution, and it represents an unprecedented expansion of power.


Yet Obamacare's most pernicious aspect is its federal funding of abortion. Pro-lifers are now compelled to have their tax dollars used to subsidize insurance plans that allow for the murder of unborn children. This is more than state-sanctioned infanticide. It violates the conscience rights of religious citizens. Traditionalists - evangelicals, Catholics, Baptists, Muslims, Orthodox Jews - have been made complicit in an abomination that goes against their deepest religious values. As the law is implemented (as in Pennsylvania) the consequences of the abortion provisions will become increasingly apparent. The result will be a cultural civil war. Pro-lifers will become deeply alienated from society; among many, a secession of the heart is taking place.


Mr. Obama is waging a frontal assault on property rights. The BP oil spill is a case in point. BP clearly is responsible for the spill and its massive economic and environmental damage to the Gulf. There is a legal process for claims to be adjudicated, but Mr. Obama has behaved more like Mr. Chavez or Russia's Vladimir Putin: He has bullied BP into setting up a $20 billion compensation fund administered by an Obama appointee. In other words, the assets of a private company are to be raided to serve a political agenda. Billions will be dispensed arbitrarily in compensation to oil-spill victims - much of it to Democratic constituents. This is cronyism and creeping authoritarianism.


Mr. Obama's multicultural socialism seeks to eradicate traditional America. He has created a command-and-control health care system. He has essentially nationalized the big banks, the financial sector, the automakers and the student loan industry. He next wants to pass "cap-and-trade," which would bring industry and manufacturing under the heel of big government. The state is intervening in every aspect of American life - beyond its constitutionally delegated bounds. Under Mr. Obama, the Constitution has become a meaningless scrap of paper.


To provide the shock troops for his socialist takeover, Mr. Obama calls for "comprehensive immigration reform" - granting amnesty to 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens. This would forge a permanent Democratic electoral majority. It would sound the death knell for our national sovereignty. Amnesty rewards lawlessness and criminal behavior; it signifies the surrender of our porous southern border to a massive illegal invasion. It means the death of American nationhood. We will no longer be a country, but the colony of a global socialist empire.


Rather than defending our homeland, Mr. Obama's Justice Department has sued Arizona for its immigration law. He is siding with criminals against his fellow Americans. His actions desecrate his constitutional oath to protect U.S. citizens from enemies foreign and domestic. He is thus encouraging more illegal immigration as Washington refuses to protect our borders. Mr. Obama's decision on this case is treasonous.


As president, he is supposed to respect the rule of law. Instead, his administration has dropped charges of voter intimidation against members of the New Black Panther Party. This was done even though their menacing behavior was caught on tape: men in military garb brandishing clubs and threatening whites at a polling site. A Justice Department lawyer intimately involved in the case, J. Christian Adams, resigned in protest. Mr. Adams says that under Mr. Obama, there is a new policy: Cases involving black defendants and white victims - no matter how much they cry for justice - are not to be prosecuted. This is more than institutionalized racism. It is an abrogation of civil rights laws. The Justice Department's behavior is illegal. It poses a direct threat to the integrity of our democracy and the sanctity of our electoral process.


Corruption in the administration is rampant. Washington no longer has a government; rather, it has a gangster regime. The Chicago way has become the Washington way. Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel is a political hit man. He is an amoral, ruthless operator. It was Mr. Emanuel who reached out to Rep. Joe Sestak, Pennsylvania Democrat, offering a high-ranking job in the hopes of persuading Mr. Sestak to pull out of the primary against Sen. Arlen Specter. It was Mr. Emanuel who offered another government position to Andrew Romanoff to do the same in the Colorado Democratic Senate primary. And it was Mr. Emanuel - as the trial of former Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich has revealed - who acted as the go-between to try to have Valerie Jarrett parachuted into Mr. Obama's former Senate seat. The only question was: What did Mr. Blagojevich want in exchange?


This is not simply sleazy Chicago machine politics. It is the systematic breaking of the law - bribery, attempt to interfere (and manipulate) elections using taxpayer-funded jobs, influence peddling and abuse of power.


The common misperception on the right is that Mr. Obama is another Jimmy Carter: an incompetent liberal whose presidency is being reduced to rubble under the onslaught of repeated failures. The very opposite, however, is true. He is the most consequential president in our lifetime, transforming America into something our Founding Fathers would find not only unrecognizable, but repugnant. Like all radical revolutionaries, he is consumed by the pursuit of power - attaining it, wielding it and maximizing it. Mr. Obama's fledgling thug state must be stopped.


If Republicans win back Congress in November, they should - and likely will - launch formal investigations into this criminal, scandal-ridden administration. Rep. Darrell Issa, California Republican and ranking member of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee, has promised as much. Mr. Obama has betrayed the American people. Impeachment is the only answer. This usurper must fall.

[Webster]

while purely politically motivated since only congress can impeach him but it is based in truth since everything i read there is accurate even if some wish to justify it with the "its for the greater good" excuse


it would be nice if a process to have a recall referendom was possible but AFAIK Congress and the president of the United States is exempt from such a process

[Bilge_Rat]

contributor and columnist Jeffery T. Kuhner made a case for impeachment of the Mr. Obama.



:har::haha: :har: :haha: :har: :haha: :har: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

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oh, i'm sorry, is this something we are supposed to take seriously...:D

[Bubblehead1980]

Great read, absolutely true and he should be impeached and imprisoned.Sucks how many people see what is going on as the usual politics, it's much more than that, he is dangerous.Lets just hope he does not get a second term because I fear that is when the gloves will come off and he will really push his agenda.

[Tribesman]

oh, i'm sorry, is this something we are supposed to take seriously...
Come on give them enough chance to gather and tie the rope round their own neck before you launch into the ridicule.

[AVGWarhawk]

Come on give them enough chance to gather and tie the rope round their own neck before you launch into the ridicule.

:yawn:
:O:

[GoldenRivet]

oh, i'm sorry, is this something we are supposed to take seriously...:D


Its not something you are supposed to take seriously. :salute:

[Zachstar]

If Impeachment was off the table for Bush after waterboarding. Obama is off the hook.

[Oberon]

Burn him!

http://mvbg.wikispaces.com/file/view/angry-mob.bmp/109151923/angry-mob.bmp

yadda yadda etc etc... :damn:

[Bilge_Rat]

Its not something you are supposed to take seriously. :salute:

sorry...:arrgh!:

I just could'nt get past the second paragraph:



He is slowly - piece by painful piece - erecting a socialist dictatorship. We are not there - yet. But he is putting America on that dangerous path. He is undermining our constitutional system of checks and balances; subverting democratic procedures and the rule of law; presiding over a corrupt, gangster regime; and assaulting the very pillars of traditional capitalism. Like Venezuela's leftist strongman, Hugo Chavez, Mr. Obama is bent on imposing a revolution from above - one that is polarizing America along racial, political and ideological lines. Mr. Obama is the most divisive president since Richard Nixon. His policies are Balkanizing the country. It's time for him to go.




I guess I had'nt noticed the similarity:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_65fJY6BlFC0/SP9LT4r0ZOI/AAAAAAAAAXc/MMlV9eGEJf8/s400/lenin.jpghttp://americansfortruth.com/uploads/2010/06/Obama_Official_Portrait.jpg

again, sorry...:D

[Bubblehead1980]

If Impeachment was off the table for Bush after waterboarding. Obama is off the hook.

Oh get real.Waterboarding is not torture and it's worked according to many reports.The Library Tower plot comes to mind and I know the Liberal BS that tries to spin that story so save it.

Bush was by no means my favorite President but you are way off base comparing GWB to BHO.

BHO is far more dangerous than Bush could ever be, sad thing is it's happened in a very public way and Liberals refuse to see it, although according to polls most in the country are now wise to whats going on.

[Ducimus]

This topic........ I'm reminded of the childhood story of the Boy who cried wolf. He cried wolf so many times, after while, nobody beleived him anymore.

Same thing here. So much vitriol and rhetoric is spewed forth these days, its hard to take ANYTHING hardliner republicans say seriously anymore. And really, that's all this is. More blowhard rhetoric from another right wing extremist.

Will the real voice of reason please stand up? Cause this ain't it.

[GoldenRivet]

@ Bildge Rat

while i agree that the paragraph you have referenced makes some pretty radical comparisons... the rest of the article is full on truth man.

just read it.

many of the right wing folks made the mistake of blindly following Bush... dont make the same mistake of blind loyalty to BHO. :nope:

[Bilge_Rat]

GR, actually I wanted McCain to win, but the american voters chose Obama and for better or worse, he is the president until jan. 20, 2013.

My point is more that impeachment should be reserved for outright iilegal conduct against the Constitution, conduct like Nixon's in 1972.

It's not healthy for a democracy to try to destroy its duly elected leaders just because you don't agree with their policies. Voters will get their chance to express their judgement in 2012.

Just remember that whatever Republicans pull against Obama, democrats wil be sure to do to the next Republican president.

[Bubblehead1980]

The charges are not radical, they have occured right in front of our very eyes over the past two years.

Most of America still seems to have this "well it can't happen here" thing going on.Obama accused America of being arrogant, well she is in this sense.People believed something like 9/11 would never happen here, guess what? it did.The saying "never say never" applies here.Pattern of behavior is an example.Obama has repeatedly defied the American people's wishes many times on issues , he has talked down about America over and over, ignored our allies and befriended our enemies.Obama took the side of the Muslims in the mosque issue and tried to invoke the constitution which he pisses on to justfiy it.Obama ended our major presence in Iraq early and plans to do so in Afghanistan.Obama has shown his racism repeatedly in incidents such as the policegate or allowing his justice department to not prosecute new black panthers for voter intimidation and even after a lawyer resigned in protest and broke the story, nothing.Obama sues a state for simply protecting itself.Recently, Obama admin delayed yet again the prosecution of a terrorist tied to the USS Cole bombing in which 18 US Navy sailors were killed.

The article was right on in it's assessment of Obama and the need to impeach him.

Jesus tap dancing christ, what else do you people need? The man has to go!.

[Bubblehead1980]

GR, actually I wanted McCain to win, but the american voters chose Obama and for better or worse, he is the president until jan. 20, 2013.

My point is more that impeachment should be reserved for outright iilegal conduct against the Constitution, conduct like Nixon's in 1972.

It's not healthy for a democracy to try to destroy its duly elected leaders just because you don't agree with their policies. Voters will get their chance to express their judgement in 2012.

Just remember that whatever Republicans pull against Obama, democrats wil be sure to do to the next Republican president.

The next President will no doubt be a pro american President and not a post American President, Dems won't have near the material(esp truthful) material Obama's opponents have.

[mookiemookie]

More blowhard rhetoric from another right wing extremist.

Agreed. This is an opinion piece rather than a legal case for impeachment. You may agree with his opinion, but that doesn't make it fact.

[Sailor Steve]

Oh get real.Waterboarding is not torture and it's worked according to many reports.
Have you ever been waterboarded? Have you ever seen someone waterboarded? Have you ever been tortured? Have you ever tortured anyone?

If all those are true, then how do you know it's not torture? Because you like the people who say it's not torture and don't like those who do?

[Ducimus]

GR, actually I wanted McCain to win....

I did too, until he nominated that overchristianized, folksy nit wit, dumb as a box of rocks soccer mom as his running mate. After that, I couldn't in good conscious vote for anyone.

[Sailor Steve]

I voted for Ron Paul in perfectly good conscience.

[Bubblehead1980]

Have you ever been waterboarded? Have you ever seen someone waterboarded? Have you ever been tortured? Have you ever tortured anyone?

If all those are true, then how do you know it's not torture? Because you like the people who say it's not torture and don't like those who do?


Don't have to be waterboarded to know if it's torture or not.Do you know what the definition of torture is? The definition of torture is:: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure)

Water boarding only simulates drowning, it installs fear but the person is not in real danger.Pleasant? no Effective? yes torture? no

Also have to look at how waterboarding is done by the US.They strap them to a board, put a hood over their head and pour water on them.I endured worse hazing in during pledge week, give me a break.Nazi's used waterboarding but in a much more dangerous form.I do recall reading they would strap someone to a board and have it mounted in a seesaw fashion with a large tub of water at the end where the subjects head was located, would ask a question then take their weight off the board and allow the subjects head to become submerged for a period of time then bring them back out then after barely catching their breath, they were submerged again.Now I agree this is torture and puts the subject in real danger.

The US method is waterboarding light and as said, I endured worse during pledge week in my freshman year, so lets stop whining for scumbag terrorists shall we?

[Tribesman]

Bubblehead, just one question.
What planet are you on?

[Bubblehead1980]

I voted for Ron Paul in perfectly good conscience.


I voted for McCain because I knew he was only one who could likely beat Obama.I dislike Palin and would love to see Ron Paul as President, although I disagree with his foreign policy views for most part.did not vote for Paul because he had no chance and didnt want to take away from mccain.

[Stealth Hunter]

He is slowly - piece by painful piece - erecting a socialist dictatorship.http://urbanflyventures.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Its-A-Conspiracy.jpg

[Bilge_Rat]

I did too, until he nominated that overchristianized, folksy nit wit, dumb as a box of rocks soccer mom as his running mate. After that, I couldn't in good conscious vote for anyone.


That's not a nice thing to say about the 2012 Republican nominee...:D

[Skybird]

If Impeachment was off the table for Bush after waterboarding. Obama is off the hook.
Something like this. What is sauce for the goose must be sauce for the gander, too.

[Skybird]

Waterboarding is not torture and it's worked according to many reports.
:dead:

And when I cut your throat then that is no murder. It may even work, so - lean your head back!

i am not debating torture yes/no here. just wanting to say that administering simulated agony and provoking according physical reflexes and reactions by the body [violent, brutal, harsh, spasmic reactions, btw.) sure as hell is torture not different to beating, cutting limbs of and electroshocks. If you do not believe me, ask some friends to press your head under water until you almost fade out. You will be amazed what your body will give you in sensations and agony. If you are male, you might even get an erection. That'S why some people consider waterboarding to ba a gay practice.

Waterboarding just lacks the splatter fx, it just is a cup of water spilled in your face, isn't it, it even is not much water, and that's why simple minds consider it to be harmless and tame. If it would be tame, I wonder why there can be reports then claiming that it is "effective". Did the subject suddenly discover it's sense of humour and decided to cooperate before it laughs itself to death?

[Ducimus]

That's not a nice thing to say about the 2012 Republican nominee...:D


/facepalm

[Catfish]

And this is a Texan's answer to this article :D

" ... TexasJack says:
9 hours, 8 minutes ago


" ... My evangilical friends see Brock Obama as the third coming of the anti-Christ prophesized in the Bible. Meanwhile some of us caught in the expanse of our societal downward spiral see President-44 as the leader of a nat'l socialist movement reminescent of that that brought the world to war in 1939.
Reading ''Dreams of My Father'' autobiography of Mr. O resurrects the same emotions of Heir H's ''Mein Kampf'' where both men pursue a blame game on others. In Adolf's time, it was the Jews who got blamed for everything wrong in Germany. It Brock's time, a day does not go by without him spewing his BIOB (blame it on bush) mentality. Like AH, BO is a divider not a uniter. Our nation needs a leader who will bring the nation under a common goal -- bring it out of the great recession, make is prosperous again. Where that leader will come from is still unknown but one thing is certain, it's not going to happen under Brock Hussein Obama. ..."
:haha::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

OMG i am really happy that those religious weirdos packed and left back then for the to-become US, beginning with the "Mayflower".

What the US right wing-Nazi-KKK-NRA-locust capitalist press needs is a direct slap in the face, for de-stabilizing the country and mess around with the elected President of the United States.
Or take the southern states, re-institute slavery, build a high wall around it and make them elect their own president Jefferson re-incarnation. But please leave the rest of the world alone with this utter bullsh!t. I will gladly give them Bavaria, our politicians and lobbyists as a free giveaway :yep:

Greetings,
Catfish

[MGR1]

But please leave the rest of the world alone with this utter bullsh!t. I will gladly give them Bavaria, our politicians and lobbyists as a free giveaway :yep:

Greetings,
Catfish

Well, this is an American based forum.:03:

As a result, us Euro's do get to see the Americans on this forum put forth their views on their country's political process, arguably ad nauseum!

As for the UK, Tony Blair's memoirs were published today, and there hasn't been a thread made on it. Something I'm rather glad of, as I've been avoiding the news as much as I can!!!

Mike.:up:

[Bilge_Rat]

As for the UK, Tony Blair's memoirs were published today, and there hasn't been a thread made on it. Something I'm rather glad of, as I've been avoiding the news as much as I can!!!

Mike.:up:

see here (although again with a US twist :D):

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=174395

[Ducimus]

Well, this is an American based forum.:03:

As a result, us Euro's do get to see the Americans on this forum put forth their views on their country's political process, arguably ad nauseum!


I imagine it's pretty sad and pathetic to watch. As a people, we are a rabid, foaming at the mouth, irrational, and polarized lot when it comes to politics.

[Penguin]

Don't have to be waterboarded to know if it's torture or not.Do you know what the definition of torture is? The definition of torture is:: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure)

Water boarding only simulates drowning, it installs fear but the person is not in real danger.Pleasant? no Effective? yes torture? no

Also have to look at how waterboarding is done by the US.They strap them to a board, put a hood over their head and pour water on them.I endured worse hazing in during pledge week, give me a break.Nazi's used waterboarding but in a much more dangerous form.I do recall reading they would strap someone to a board and have it mounted in a seesaw fashion with a large tub of water at the end where the subjects head was located, would ask a question then take their weight off the board and allow the subjects head to become submerged for a period of time then bring them back out then after barely catching their breath, they were submerged again.Now I agree this is torture and puts the subject in real danger.

The US method is waterboarding light and as said, I endured worse during pledge week in my freshman year, so lets stop whining for scumbag terrorists shall we?

I don't think you can compare some college intitiation rituals with torture. During these rituals you have in mind that the "torture" is limited in duration as well as in it's intensity. As a prisoner you don't have this privilege.
If you are so sure that waterboarding is less intense than your pledge week, I can only recommend to try it out. Just make sure your head is upside down and that you cannot move. If you still say it is no torture after this, then you have my deepest respect.

[Sailor Steve]

Do you know what the definition of torture is? The definition of torture is:: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure)
You mention the primary definition while conveniently ignoring secondary definitions one of which is "Extreme anguish of body or mind."

Water boarding only simulates drowning, it installs fear but the person is not in real danger.Pleasant? no Effective? yes torture? no
It instills fear because the subject doesn't know that he's not going to drown. In times of extreme stress the mind loses control and the subject has no real awareness of anything but extreme anguish.

Also have to look at how waterboarding is done by the US.They strap them to a board, put a hood over their head and pour water on them.I endured worse hazing in during pledge week,
And were you at any point convinced you were indeed going to die? Student's have died during hazing, which is why certain practices are no longer allowed. If such treatment is acceptable then why are police forbidden to use the practice of holding a suspect's head underwater until he loses his breath, thus instilling the fear of drowning.

Yes, it is indeed torture.

give me a break.
My argument isn't really with what you believe, in spirit. My argument is with your constant attitude that you know everything. As I've said before, if you know everything you have no room left to learn anything. I'm only trying to make you understand that you could be wrong.


Nazi's used waterboarding but in a much more dangerous form...
Which is relavent how? Somebody else did something worse, so that makes it okay?

The US method is waterboarding light and as said, I endured worse during pledge week in my freshman year, so lets stop whining for scumbag terrorists shall we?
And there's that attitude again, and that word again. I'm not whining for anyone, but if you're no better than them then what's the point?

[Penguin]

Back to the article:

Yet Obamacare's most pernicious aspect is its federal funding of abortion. Pro-lifers are now compelled to have their tax dollars used to subsidize insurance plans that allow for the murder of unborn children. This is more than state-sanctioned infanticide. It violates the conscience rights of religious citizens. Traditionalists - evangelicals, Catholics, Baptists, Muslims, Orthodox Jews - have been made complicit in an abomination that goes against their deepest religious values. As the law is implemented (as in Pennsylvania) the consequences of the abortion provisions will become increasingly apparent. The result will be a cultural civil war. Pro-lifers will become deeply alienated from society; among many, a secession of the heart is taking place.Well, isn't this a point which one could use as an argument everytime someone has a reason of conscience to disagree with the politics of the country? Pacifists could argue they get alienated by spending money for the military, enviromentalists by spending money for highways, smokers by spending money for the ATF ;)
So everyone who is unhappy with the distribution of taxes could start a "cultural civil war" - I just love this word creation...

I would be glad to decide what my taxes are used for, at least if I had some options, however I don't think it is feasible.

[TLAM Strike]

Is there any space left in Canada? I feel like moving after that, just to get away from idiots who would publish such garbage in a major newspaper...

[Tribesman]

Is there any space left in Canada? I feel like moving after that, just to get away from idiots who would publish such garbage in a major newspaper...

You can have Kuhners old place as he is from Montreal.
Its not like its his first piece of garbage though , just look at some of the crazy trash he put out when he was with the Moonies.

[gimpy117]

Sillyness. Besides bush did much worse and skated by.

[Castout]

I read the quote on that article and OMG what a rubbish and it could get printed to the one of the largest newspaper in the country...

[mookiemookie]

Back to the article:

Well, isn't this a point which one could use as an argument everytime someone has a reason of conscience to disagree with the politics of the country? Pacifists could argue they get alienated by spending money for the military, enviromentalists by spending money for highways, smokers by spending money for the ATF ;)
So everyone who is unhappy with the distribution of taxes could start a "cultural civil war" - I just love this word creation...

I would be glad to decide what my taxes are used for, at least if I had some options, however I don't think it is feasible.

They also fail to mention that abortion is a completely legal medical procedure in this country.

[Foggy]

Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power must be wielded by a mandate from the masses! Not some farcical aquatic ceremony!

[Platapus]

I have the same response to this that I had with the "impeach Bush" people.

Cite me the laws that President Obama/Bush broke then we can talk.

A president acting in contrary to a citizen's opinion is not an impeachable offense.

[Platapus]

Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power must be wielded by a mandate from the masses! Not some farcical aquatic ceremony!
Well you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!

I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!

[Ducimus]

Gotta love Monty Python. :haha:

[tater]

I have the same response to this that I had with the "impeach Bush" people.

Cite me the laws that President Obama/Bush broke then we can talk.

A president acting in contrary to a citizen's opinion is not an impeachable offense.

This.

[Wolfehunter]

Is there any space left in Canada? I feel like moving after that, just to get away from idiots who would publish such garbage in a major newspaper...Naw here they gang taser ya.. till u dead. :o:88):dead:

[TLAM Strike]

Naw here they gang taser ya.. till u dead. :o:88):dead:

But I assume they do it politely... :03:

[Bubblehead1980]

I don't think you can compare some college intitiation rituals with torture. During these rituals you have in mind that the "torture" is limited in duration as well as in it's intensity. As a prisoner you don't have this privilege.
If you are so sure that waterboarding is less intense than your pledge week, I can only recommend to try it out. Just make sure your head is upside down and that you cannot move. If you still say it is no torture after this, then you have my deepest respect.


You know, I think I'll try it out sometime just so I can say tell those who allege torture and show them it isnt.Perhaps a youtube video.Hell I did crazier things in college...

[Sailor Steve]

It won't be the same if you do it, or have it done to you by friends. You have to actually be in fear for your life.

[Bubblehead1980]

You mention the primary definition while conveniently ignoring secondary definitions one of which is "Extreme anguish of body or mind."

I left it out because extreme anguish of body or mind is AGONY and to use it as a loose definition of torture is misleading.

It instills fear because the subject doesn't know that he's not going to drown. In times of extreme stress the mind loses control and the subject has no real awareness of anything but extreme anguish.

Exactly, the fear it instills or not being sure how far their interrogators go helps.Talking to a military officer my family knows who was there when the war on terror began, he said Muslim terrorists were taught that the US will only go so far when interrogating and they were initially thrown off guard by the use of certain tactics.Not knowing and instilling fear is a great weapon against an enemy.Waterboarding US style is safe because the terrorist is no real danger of dying, just scared as hell as they should be.


And were you at any point convinced you were indeed going to die? Student's have died during hazing, which is why certain practices are no longer allowed. If such treatment is acceptable then why are police forbidden to use the practice of holding a suspect's head underwater until he loses his breath, thus instilling the fear of drowning.

Well I knew I would not die but I will say we endured worse things than being tied down and having water poured on me.The practice is not acceptable by local/state police while interrorgating "normal" criminals and esp citizens.The terrorists are militarized enemies of the United States and do not enjoy the very rights of the citizens they seek to destroy.Perfectly acceptable to use enhanced interrogation techniques on foreign terrorists.

Yes, it is indeed torture.

Again, it's not.Sure it is unpleasant but it is not torture and as proven in the Library Tower plot and prob other situtions which are still classified, it worked.


My argument isn't really with what you believe, in spirit. My argument is with your constant attitude that you know everything. As I've said before, if you know everything you have no room left to learn anything. I'm only trying to make you understand that you could be wrong.

I never claim to know everything but I have an educated opinion on things and express it.I then offer a rebuttle most of the time.Perhaps it comes across as I believe I know everything but I do not.There are issues though that I am convinced I am in no way wrong and this is one of them.

I base this on the fact that waterboarding does not fit the definition of torture.Sure someone could try and argue the loose definition but they are wrong.When people thing torture, they think of how the vietnamnese did POW's like John McCain or how the Japanese did allied pow's during the war not having some water splashed on you and scaring you, essestially that is all it does.



Which is relavent how? Somebody else did something worse, so that makes it okay?

No does not make it okay but was showing that we're not using the form of waterboarding that is actually torture but using an enhanced interrogation technique that is really just a "scare tactic" and one that has proven to work.


And there's that attitude again, and that word again. I'm not whining for anyone, but if you're no better than them then what's the point?

Well I feel people who decry methods that work and are not extreme although slightly unpleasant are being advocates for the very extremists who would not mind torturing them if they had a chance simply because happen to be a white american or just an american, although they seem to target white people more than any.

[Foggy]

You know, I think I'll try it out sometime just so I can say tell those who allege torture and show them it isnt.Perhaps a youtube video.Hell I did crazier things in college...

This journalist tried it and made a wager he'd last 15 seconds. He dropped the signal weight in 5 seconds...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV4a2_appig

[MGR1]

see here (although again with a US twist :D):

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=174395

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

You, Sir, are an evil and twisted man!:stare::03:

Hey, Duci, those properties are a good sign - over here the attitude is "A Plague Upon You", mainly because of expenses fiddling.

Which is shame, as I think us Brits need to take our political process back from a very narrow section of the population.

Mike.

[nikimcbee]

Never mind the golfer in chief, give me pelosi and frank.:hmmm::woot:

[Sailor Steve]

...give me pelosi and frank.:hmmm::woot:
You swing both ways? :D

[Bilge_Rat]

yup, necro thread.

Looking up something for the U.S. politics thread led me to this.

Only woke this up to show that 7 years on, we are still having exactly the same arguments, with many of the same players, but now the tables have been switched. :D

p.s. _ I think I was funnier back then...:hmmm:

[vienna]

The more things change, the more they remain the same...



<O>

[Catfish]

:haha: OMG.