Forum matters and piracy

[Takeda Shingen]

I have repeated myself to no end over the past two weeks, so I suppose it proper to indulge the haxorz and piwates that may wish to advocate, well, hacking and piracy. So, read the following carefully:

SubSim.com was founded in 1998. Yes, that's 1998. 1998 was before Silent Hunter 5 was developed. It was before Silent Hunter 4, 3 or 2. It was before UbiSoft acquired the rights to develop the Silent Hunter Series. It was before the advent of DRM, SecureRom and Starforce. Long before it.

Since that is established, we now proceed to the fact that since it's creation in 1998, SubSim.com has never, ever ever, ever, ever, ever, EVERpermitted the discussion or advocacy of piracy or the circumvention of copy protection on it's forums. Got it? Understand? Good, because I am going to reference it several times below.

Every week I get half a dozen PMs and a handful of forum posts relating to piracy. I'll give you some of the greatest hits and the obvious response, given what you now know, that would be made to the gripes.



Gripe No 1: Ubi cheated us! This game suxorz! Piracy is the people's solution, comrade!

Answer No 1: Are you new to computer gaming? Haven't you been burnt before? Did you ever play SH2? Read a review before ordering. Moreover, see above.



Gripe No 2: DRM is unacceptable. It is a neo-socialist conspiracy designed to remove our individualism in favor or placing us in the collective mind of the company. I've seen The Matrix, you know.

Answer No 2: The Matrix was overrated, and has corrupted the minds of a generation of angst-filled teenage anti-socialites. That aside, have you considered that it may just be the activities of the piwates and haxorz that you hold as some sort of comic book-style freedom fighters that force companies to resort to this type of draconian protection scheme? Probably not. In any case, the point is academic because, see above.



Gripe No 3: SubSim's rules are unacceptable. You are aiding the theives and capitalist pig-dogs at Ubi. You are robbing the people! YOU!

Answer No 3: Wait, I thought that Ubi was comprised of neo-socialists. Now they are capitalist pigs? In any case, you are correct. Back in 2008, the Ubi suits, the development team and Neal and the moderators sat in a posh suite in the penthouse of the Ubi World Tower, swirling our brandy and brainstorming about ways to screw you out of your money. Damn. You got us. Now we have to come up with a new evil plan. In the meantime, see above.



Yes, much of this was meant as tounge-in-cheek, and I hope you got some laughs out of it. In seriousness though, you need to understand that SubSim's anti-piracy stance predates much of the SH series, and will not be changing to accomodate the flavor of the month. There are plenty of piwate and haxorz forums that will cater to said flavor.

[Kapitanleutnant]

That's all just like, your opinion, man. :|\\

ps ubsifot sux drm sux sh5 sux

[Takeda Shingen]

No, it's fact: SubSim has never and will never allow the discussion and advocation of piracy.

[Kapitanleutnant]

No, it's fact: SubSim has never and will never allow the discussion and advocation of piracy.Which is the best pirate, Blackbeard or Edward Low? Low is my personal fave alright/. I wish i was a pirate just like him piracy is so cool pls keep all the pirate chat in this thread

[Takeda Shingen]

You're getting dangerously close to trolling here. Be careful.

The Management

[ddrgn]

Over management and opinions rolled into one, I agree with Kapitanleutnant.

[Takeda Shingen]

Over management and opinions rolled into one, I agree with Kapitanleutnant.

I'm not looking to start a fight with you, but how is the fact that discussion of any particular topic is not permitted opinion? That was my point in the above.

[ddrgn]

The rules are stated over and over again. If posters decline to read the rules and then break them, do what you must. I feel like I walk into a kindergarten class when I read this board, kids standing facing the corner, the rules written on the blackboard, the teacher front and center preaching the guidelines.

I think its clear where the admins stand and what the rules of the board, no need to rehash it over and over.

[Takeda Shingen]

The rules are stated over and over again. If posters decline to read the rules and then break them, do what you must. I feel like I walk into a kindergarten class when I read this board, kids standing facing the corner, the rules written on the blackboard, the teacher front and center preaching the guidelines.

I think its clear where the admins stand and what the rules of the board, no need to rehash it over and over.

While I completely agree with you in that the environment is just plain silly and demeaning to guys like you who understand the rules (believe me that it is not my intention), I continue to have to issue infractions to people over it, with the same tired arguments in return.

You're right that people like you deserve better, and to that end I apologize. I try not to post in a grandiose fashion often, as I am not comfortable with it, so this time I tried, and evidently failed, at a humorous approach. However, your point stands and I must adjust my methods accordingly.

To the drawing board.

[ddrgn]

Sounds good, I do appreciate your response. Thanks.

[Zedi]

This reminds me to the banned discussion about marijuana, pr0n in public places. Everyboy know about it, many use it.. but is not allowed to talk about. It's just silly and childish.

I agree only on 1 thing... encouranging piracy should be forbidden, not talking about.

[GoldenRivet]

if you are implying that everyone uses game thieving methodology...

... you're wrong ;)

personally i agree with the policy that is currently in place.

and i think that any poster or thread starter who advocates piwacy should face immediate banning.

[ETR3(SS)]

and i think that any poster or thread starter who advocates piwacy should face immediate banning.I agree, and looks like somebody had a Barney Frwank moment.:rotfl2:

[mookiemookie]

You want to change the rules, start your own website and have whatever rules you want. If you want to stay at Neal's house, obey his rules whether you agree with them or not. It's not hard, nor is it a debate, nor is your opinion on the rules necessary. Sheeshk.

[GoldenRivet]

I agree, and looks like somebody had a Barney Frwank moment.:rotfl2:

I was making reference to this in the original post :D

I have repeated myself to no end over the past two weeks, so I suppose it proper to indulge the haxorz and piwates that may wish to advocate, well, hacking and piracy.

[ETR3(SS)]

You know I read that too and thought nothing of it until you repeated it.:doh::rotfl2:

[Takeda Shingen]

Piwate=pejoatve for 'pirate'

[HomkaDurdomka]

Gripe No 2: DRM is unacceptable. It is a neo-socialist conspiracy designed to remove our individualism in favor or placing us in the collective mind of the company. I've seen The Matrix, you know


:haha::har::har::har:

[Highbury]

This is total BS!!! My internet died half way through reading this thread and I couldn't load the second page... stupid forum DRM.

I am now going to spend the next 6 months constantly online complaining about how I can't be online all the time... so unfair!


P.S. nice post Takeda

[SteelViking]

:haha: Actually Takeda, I love the way you just restated the rules. Plus, it just proved a lot of my conspiracy theories correct.:har:

[CaptainMattJ.]

I have repeated myself to no end over the past two weeks, so I suppose it proper to indulge the haxorz and piwates that may wish to advocate, well, hacking and piracy. So, read the following carefully:

SubSim.com was founded in 1998. Yes, that's 1998. 1998 was before Silent Hunter 5 was developed. It was before Silent Hunter 4, 3 or 2. It was before UbiSoft acquired the rights to develop the Silent Hunter Series. It was before the advent of DRM, SecureRom and Starforce. Long before it.

Since that is established, we now proceed to the fact that since it's creation in 1998, SubSim.com has never, ever ever, ever, ever, ever, EVERpermitted the discussion or advocacy of piracy or the circumvention of copy protection on it's forums. Got it? Understand? Good, because I am going to reference it several times below.

Every week I get half a dozen PMs and a handful of forum posts relating to piracy. I'll give you some of the greatest hits and the obvious response, given what you now know, that would be made to the gripes.



Gripe No 1: Ubi cheated us! This game suxorz! Piracy is the people's solution, comrade!

Answer No 1: Are you new to computer gaming? Haven't you been burnt before? Did you ever play SH2? Read a review before ordering. Moreover, see above.



Gripe No 2: DRM is unacceptable. It is a neo-socialist conspiracy designed to remove our individualism in favor or placing us in the collective mind of the company. I've seen The Matrix, you know.

Answer No 2: The Matrix was overrated, and has corrupted the minds of a generation of angst-filled teenage anti-socialites. That aside, have you considered that it may just be the activities of the piwates and haxorz that you hold as some sort of comic book-style freedom fighters that force companies to resort to this type of draconian protection scheme? Probably not. In any case, the point is academic because, see above.



Gripe No 3: SubSim's rules are unacceptable. You are aiding the theives and capitalist pig-dogs at Ubi. You are robbing the people! YOU!

Answer No 3: Wait, I thought that Ubi was comprised of neo-socialists. Now they are capitalist pigs? In any case, you are correct. Back in 2008, the Ubi suits, the development team and Neal and the moderators sat in a posh suite in the penthouse of the Ubi World Tower, swirling our brandy and brainstorming about ways to screw you out of your money. Damn. You got us. Now we have to come up with a new evil plan. In the meantime, see above.



Yes, much of this was meant as tounge-in-cheek, and I hope you got some laughs out of it. In seriousness though, you need to understand that SubSim's anti-piracy stance predates much of the SH series, and will not be changing to accomodate the flavor of the month. There are plenty of piwate and haxorz forums that will cater to said flavor.

The matrix didnt corrupt minds. How could it?

[JScones]

The rules are stated over and over again. If posters decline to read the rules and then break them, do what you must. I feel like I walk into a kindergarten class when I read this board, kids standing facing the corner, the rules written on the blackboard, the teacher front and center preaching the guidelines.

I think its clear where the admins stand and what the rules of the board, no need to rehash it over and over.
Oh man, I so agree. It's like 3rd class here sometimes. If people fail to abide by the rules, make them individually accountable, but Christ, don't start a new thread every other week to tell everyone. It's offensive. Ironically, it's a bit like implementing DRM...

I'd dare go as far as saying it's moderation out of control.

Anyway, looking forward to the new sticky on piracy next week. :up:

[Zedi]

if you are implying that everyone uses game thieving methodology...

... you're wrong ;)

personally i agree with the policy that is currently in place.

and i think that any poster or thread starter who advocates piwacy should face immediate banning.
As I said... encouranging piracy should be forbidden, not talking about. That's how you can explain any retard why the pirated version is a .. different game. Had many situation where on the WoW dedicated forums (not the official one ofc) many people were complained about bugs, stuff not working right.. and when we got in details, it turned out that they were playin on private servers. And the private servers.. are a completely different game.

This apply to any game. Never ever a pirated game will match the retail one. Is just an illusion that you play the right game and is a huge waste of time. First of all, installing a pirated game is a hard task and secondly because when you are about to finish the last level, or do something important.. you find out that you can't save, game crash and many other anoying things. Not to mention that there is no support, not from officials, not from the community.

Now.. here we can't even explain these thing to the retards who are interested in the "no drm version" because the rules are not allowing to even type down piracy.. wich is silly imo. Piracy is bad, and not necesarry because the morale reasons, but because you will never play the right game.

[Venatore]

:yawn:

[Takeda Shingen]

Oh man, I so agree. It's like 3rd class here sometimes. If people fail to abide by the rules, make them individually accountable, but Christ, don't start a new thread every other week to tell everyone. It's offensive. Ironically, it's a bit like implementing DRM...

I'd dare go as far as saying it's moderation out of control.

Anyway, looking forward to the new sticky on piracy next week. :up:

Really? Every other week? I suppose you have links to the others, right? This wouldn't be a gross exaggeration or anything, would it?

[Krauter]

Though I agree with you Magnum, I also see the point in discouraging talking about piracy.

With the option to talk about piracy, people may think of that as talking about Where and How, etc.

Though I do agree with the fact we should have some light shed on the situation. It's the same as a parent not even giving the time to talk to their teen about drinking, sex or drugs. If the said teen knows nothing about it, they may get curious and experiment..

This may be a silly comparison, but do you see my point?

Krauter

P.S: In no way am I encouraging the experimentation with piracy and its use. Please note that I do not advocate the breaking, bending or finding and exploitation of loopholes in the forum, EULA and anyother rules that you have accepted to abide by.

[JScones]

Really? Every other week? I suppose you have links to the others, right? This wouldn't be a gross exaggeration or anything, would it?
Then perhaps you have a perception problem? :hmmm:

I don't know why you just don't blast away pirate/crack posts. No point leaving them for someone to inevitably quote from the FAQ, or leave them "to make an example" of someone, Just blow them, and the user, away.

No-one said a moderators job would be all fluffy bunnies and roses so whether you've "repeated myself to no end over the past two weeks" is of no consequence, relevance, or importance to me. ;)

[Zedi]

...

Though I do agree with the fact we should have some light shed on the situation. It's the same as a parent not even giving the time to talk to their teen about drinking, sex or drugs. If the said teen knows nothing about it, they may get curious and experiment.
...
That's exactly my point. How the heck can u explain why the piracy sux when u can't even type it down?

[robbo180265]

That's exactly my point. How the heck can u explain why the piracy sux when u can't even type it down?

The rules for this forum are "don't go there" tbh I don't see what all the fuss is about. There are plenty of other forums where you can talk about the subject or even download Trojan heavy software , but not here.

Neal's house - Neal's rules

[Takeda Shingen]

Then perhaps you have a perception problem? :hmmm:

I don't know why you just don't blast away pirate/crack posts. No point leaving them for someone to inevitably quote from the FAQ, or leave them "to make an example" of someone, Just blow them, and the user, away.

No-one said a moderators job would be all fluffy bunnies and roses so whether you've "repeated myself to no end over the past two weeks" is of no consequence, relevance, or importance to me. ;)

Uh huh. I'm still waiting, pal.

[JScones]

Oh, I see, you want to deflect from the point.

Fine. Strike my reference to starting threads if it makes you feel better. Makes no difference to my point.

The way I see it you have a choice: you can post juvenile (ironic, eh) and condescending threads that have the potential to insult, or you can do something proactive about it. You're the one wah wah about repeating yourself no end on the subject (or was that gross exaggeration? ;)), so perhaps you might want to have a little reflective thinky to see whether you can handle the subject better. Or, take onboard criticism posted here. Or, do nothing at all and maintain the status quo...in which case don't bug us about it.

But clearly, leaving crack/pirate posts for the inevitable FAQ quote, "oh oh" posts and "The Management" post isn't working, is it?

[Dowly]

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee274/Finnish_Ferret/popcorn-cat.gif

[JScones]

I might join you. It's getting so dramatic over nothing.

[Dowly]

I might join you. It's getting so dramatic over nothing.

If you bring your own popcorn. :yep:

[JScones]

Will this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYyiMyHv2yk) do? :D

[Dowly]

Will this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYyiMyHv2yk) do? :D

Now it's playing in my head. :shifty: This calls for "Nooooooo" (http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/) button.

[longam]

Why is it the SH5 section has become the never ending area for soap box drama? :arrgh!:

[Dowly]

Why is it the SH5 section has become the never ending area for soap box drama? :arrgh!:

It's a neverending first week after the release atmosphere here. :DL

[JScones]

Now it's playing in my head. :shifty:
And there it shall stay. :DL

[Dowly]

And there it shall stay. :DL

Nah, there's nothing that can't be replaced by this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3xAeTmsJfg) :)

[JScones]

Nah, there's nothing that can't be replaced by this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3xAeTmsJfg) :)
I can't believe you even know that such a song exists on youtube. :haha:

Why is it the SH5 section has become the never ending area for soap box drama? :arrgh!:
...and zombies, don't forget the zombies...

[Takeda Shingen]

Oh, I see, you want to deflect from the point.

Fine. Strike my reference to starting threads if it makes you feel better. Makes no difference to my point.

The way I see it you have a choice: you can post juvenile (ironic, eh) and condescending threads that have the potential to insult, or you can do something proactive about it. You're the one wah wah about repeating yourself no end on the subject (or was that gross exaggeration? ;)), so perhaps you might want to have a little reflective thinky to see whether you can handle the subject better. Or, take onboard criticism posted here. Or, do nothing at all and maintain the status quo...in which case don't bug us about it.

But clearly, leaving crack/pirate posts for the inevitable FAQ quote, "oh oh" posts and "The Management" post isn't working, is it?

Now, that's not very nice.

[Nisgeis]

Why not merge all the posts (and threads if it's a fresh post) about piracy or cracking into one thread called 'I didn't read the forum rules'? That would keep the forum nice and tidy... apart from the follow up threads of 'What happened to my thread?'.

[Méo]

:nope::nope::nope:

Six months ago, this forum has been overwhelmed by DRM threads (seems to me like moderators were tolerant for a while).

And now just a single new thread about a basic rule of subsim and such a drama goes on...

:nope::nope::nope:

[robbo180265]

Why not merge all the posts (and threads if it's a fresh post) about piracy or cracking into one thread called 'I didn't read the forum rules'? That would keep the forum nice and tidy... apart from the follow up threads of 'What happened to my thread?'.

:rotfl2::har:

[Madox58]

If someone doesn't read the Forum rules?
Why in Heavens name would they read a thread named
"I don't read the Forum rules"?
:hmmm:

And if such a thread existed?
It would devolve into a steaming heap of garbage like so many others have already.
:nope:

'The Compost Thread'
That's what we need.
:har:

Throw all the crap in that and let it steam.
:rock:

[Jimbuna]

Why not merge all the posts (and threads if it's a fresh post) about piracy or cracking into one thread called 'I didn't read the forum rules'? That would keep the forum nice and tidy... apart from the follow up threads of 'What happened to my thread?'.

If someone doesn't read the Forum rules?
Why in Heavens name would they read a thread named
"I don't read the Forum rules"?
:hmmm:

And if such a thread existed?
It would devolve into a steaming heap of garbage like so many others have already.
:nope:

'The Compost Thread'
That's what we need.
:har:

Throw all the crap in that and let it steam.
:rock:

Simply delete them on first site or lock em like the spambot threads.

[Dowly]

^ This.

[McBeck]

I can't believe you even know that such a song exists on youtube. :haha:


...and zombies, don't forget the zombies...
You should try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW9yZhU9ytk

[JScones]

Well that's a minute I'll never get back, LOL. :haha:

[DrMilton]

I only read the OP so I only have a couple of things,

What's wrong with SH2? This is what started it all for many of us.

You don't like The Matrix? dude!!


Now for the piracy stuff,

Companies shouldn't try to screw their customers. It's bad for business especially when it's done in such a brute way.

Customers should use their eyes and brains when buying something. If you don't like it don't buy it. Don't start playing "victim" after the fact because you were too lazy to read reviews or the package label.

Piracy is illegal. Call it however else you want but first of all it's illegal. So know that if you practice it you ll get in trouble. Facts of life.

[Sailor Steve]

I only read the OP so I only have a couple of things,

What's wrong with SH2? This is what started it all for many of us.
Obviously I'm not the OP, but I have to give my opinion here. AOD and SH1 gave us nearly perfect simulations of the WW2 submarine experience, and a lot of that was the career mode. SH2 threw that out and gave us a series of "solve it before you can advance" missions, FPS-style. No career at all, and very little replayability. That's what's wrong with SH2, easily the worst of the series.

You don't like The Matrix? dude!!
I don't like it either. I thought it was a heavy handed excuse for a special-effects extravaganza, and what plot there was was so silly I started throwing my popcorn at the screen. :O:


Now for the piracy stuff,

Companies shouldn't try to screw their customers. It's bad for business especially when it's done in such a brute way.

Customers should use their eyes and brains when buying something. If you don't like it don't buy it. Don't start playing "victim" after the fact because you were too lazy to read reviews or the package label.

Piracy is illegal. Call it however else you want but first of all it's illegal. So know that if you practice it you ll get in trouble. Facts of life.
:rock: Good call. On the other hand, Subsim doesn't care it you practice it or not, only that we don't give advice on it here.

[Spartan]

Some twisted logic in the OP - dare I use the word for fear of a pantheon of Greek Gods smiting me. Nonetheless this is a private enterprise and as such the owner of said venture has the right to dictate the operational rules. They are of course subservient to the prevailing law of the land (where the server resides of course).

With that said, I firmly disagree with the application of a zero tolerance policy regarding even the tacit discussion of the topic at hand.

On a side note, the term "piracy" is an intentional malapropism on the part of the intellectual property rights (IPR) lobbyists designed to invoke feelings of hostility towards people who disagree with the notion - in part or in whole, of the entire idea of such rights by the population at large. Himmler would be proud of such public manipulation methods to be sure.

Additionally, the mantra that "file sharing is theft" or in more politically correct words, "piracy is theft" is clearly disingenuous given the law (which the supports claim to stand by on morale grounds) makes a clear distinction between "theft" and "infringement". Ever wonder why the law suits are filed in civil court and not criminal court? Of course there are those that are working every day to make such a thing possible and at the expense of the pubic no less. Consequently, silencing dissident voices on the issue or the current laws and rights only works to bring about that end. Ever wonder how Nazism was allowed to flourish? Most people today have a hard time coming to terms with the entire process once educated about it. Well here is another case of history repeating itself policy wise but I digress...

Moreover copyright was established as a contract between creators of culture and society for the express purpose of benefiting society in the long run by providing incentive to create in the short term. That incentive now, nearly extends, two centuries and is no longer tied to a creator. Food for thought to be sure but I digress again so I'll stop here.

[John Channing]

Thank goodness someone finally came along and actually Godwined this thread.





Now it can die.

JCC

[mookiemookie]

Some twisted logic in the OP - dare I use the word for fear of a pantheon of Greek Gods smiting me. Nonetheless this is a private enterprise and as such the owner of said venture has the right to dictate the operational rules. They are of course subservient to the prevailing law of the land (where the server resides of course).

With that said, I firmly disagree with the application of a zero tolerance policy regarding even the tacit discussion of the topic at hand.

On a side note, the term "piracy" is an intentional malapropism on the part of the intellectual property rights (IPR) lobbyists designed to invoke feelings of hostility towards people who disagree with the notion - in part or in whole, of the entire idea of such rights by the population at large. Himmler would be proud of such public manipulation methods to be sure.

Additionally, the mantra that "file sharing is theft" or in more politically correct words, "piracy is theft" is clearly disingenuous given the law (which the supports claim to stand by on morale grounds) makes a clear distinction between "theft" and "infringement". Ever wonder why the law suits are filed in civil court and not criminal court? Of course there are those that are working every day to make such a thing possible and at the expense of the pubic no less. Consequently, silencing dissident voices on the issue or the current laws and rights only works to bring about that end. Ever wonder how Nazism was allowed to flourish? Most people today have a hard time coming to terms with the entire process once educated about it. Well here is another case of history repeating itself policy wise but I digress...

Moreover copyright was established as a contract between creators of culture and society for the express purpose of benefiting society in the long run by providing incentive to create in the short term. That incentive now, nearly extends, two centuries and is no longer tied to a creator. Food for thought to be sure but I digress again so I'll stop here.

Well reasoned and level headed posts like yours on the subject start a discussion that usually ends poorly. Best not to even open the door to it.


Thank goodness someone finally came along and actually Godwined this thread.





Now it can die.

JCC

lol I guess I missed the Nazi mention. I should amend my original statement to say "mostly level headed and well reasoned. "

[Takeda Shingen]

It would appear that my satire was not so far off the mark after all.