A dirty trick to have more useful contact reports (SH3 BdU reports style)

[Abd_von_Mumit]

In SH3 BdU didn't care to give us patrol orders, but after he sent us to open seas he actually cared to provide us with some useful information about enemy shipping spotted by other U-Boots, Luftwaffe and so on. When playing SH3 I used to chase these contacts very often - plotting intercept course, speeding to a meeting point, then searching for the verdammt convoy in the fog... SH5 has no BdU and this simply sucks.

However you can still get these reports by a dirty trick. Here is how:

Use TheDarkWraith's mod named Multiple UIs for SH5 with TDC (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166093) (it's marvellous). Then go to your user settings for this mod (C:\your_SH5_installation\data\Scripts\Menu\TheDar kWraithUserOptions.py), edit it and find the line that says: "# for radio contact reports, at what range from the sub can the watchstanders see the contact well enough to update it's course (in kms)?" and change the value from default 8 [km] to whatever you want. I set it up to 350 [km].

It is very possible that this can be done without this particular mod, but I don't know and I'm too illiterate to learn how.

How this works and why it is a dirty trick: the reports that you receive do not come from BdU - they are just radio transmissions sent by careless enemy radio operators then intercepted by your radio operator. Then he gives you position of the target, without target's speed nor bearing [quite obviously]. In real life however there was no way for a radio operator to know the range to radio transmission source, he could only roughly estimate the bearing to the source (triangulation would then be needed to estimate range, which in turn would need at least 2 U-Boots that intercept the radio transmission and then exchange info about it, which was very unlikely and - if happened - unprecise). So in effect we receive a bunch of completely useless reports of unknown targets of unknown speed and of unknown bearing. By doing our dirty trick we allow our watchmen to "see" the targets at enormous distances so that the reports given by radio operator (BdU) will include also the target's course, thus turning the report from useless to useful state - from now on we will be able to at least try to intercept these contacts. Many tries will end in failure, as the information will still be very imprecise, but this is exactly how it worked in real life.

Too many words to explain a simple trick. But forgive me, I won't rephrase my whole post. I hope someone finds this useful. Have fun, Kaleuns.

[Sailor Steve]

Q: When is a cheat not a cheat?

A: When it makes the play more realistic, not less.

This sounds pretty cool, and though I don't have SH5 yet I will remember it. I can't wait to see what other opinions appear about this.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Sounds interesting :yep:

[TheDarkWraith]

However you can still get these reports by a dirty trick. Here is how:

Use TheDarkWraith's mod named Multiple UIs for SH5 with TDC (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166093) (it's marvellous). Then go to your user settings for this mod (C:\your_SH5_installation\data\Scripts\Menu\TheDar kWraithUserOptions.py), edit it and find the line that says: "# for radio contact reports, at what range from the sub can the watchstanders see the contact well enough to update it's course (in kms)?" and change the value from default 8 [km] to whatever you want. I set it up to 350 [km].

That user option controls contacts that you already have - not new ones. What you need to be adjusting is the max radio range. Max radio range determines the radius from your sub that you can intercept radio transmissions. All contact reports received will appear on the map and they will show the heading (or course) that the transmission stated when clicked on or moused over.
Now the purpose of the user option you're referring to above is to simulate your crew's ability to discern the target's heading. By setting to 350 you're saying that your crew has the ability to discern heading from 350km out - they can't even see a contact that far out.
I think the report that you get from Bdu gives accurate information at the time that you receive it. Hours later the contact could've changed course and in reality you'd have never known that unless another contact report came in for that same contact :DL

[Abd_von_Mumit]

That user option controls contacts that you already have - not new ones. What you need to be adjusting is the max radio range. Max radio range determines the radius from your sub that you can intercept radio transmissions. All contact reports received will appear on the map and they will show the heading (or course) that the transmission stated when clicked on or moused over.
Now the purpose of the user option you're referring to above is to simulate your crew's ability to discern the target's heading. By setting to 350 you're saying that your crew has the ability to discern heading from 350km out - they can't even see a contact that far out.
I think the report that you get from Bdu gives accurate information at the time that you receive it. Hours later the contact could've changed course and in reality you'd have never known that unless another contact report came in for that same contact :DL

All the above is correct, no disagreement here.

Of course the trick I described doesn't generate any additional (more) contacts, it only adds one vitally important piece of information to the contacts you normally get from your radio guy (the course, exact [actual] or rough [relative], depending on your setting for "ShowContactsActualCourse" in options file). I assume players know that the number of contacts depends (in a way) on value for "MaxRadioContactRange", which I also set for 350 (this option can be set in GUI).

As to the crew uber ability - well, that's why it's a DIRTY trick. :) The solution is far from perfect, but it works. There could be side effects for players who use crew assistance in determining target data (for me this is not an issue, as I plot my solutions manually, without WO support).

As to BdU reports - well, in SH3 BdU rarely cared to update the report once it was given. :D In real life that was of course different, but here we're made to use what we can - Doenitz is already dead for sure. :arrgh!:

[ACSoft]

I checked precisely this feature and it work this way:

First, in the mode, TDW take all contacts in account, but treat them differently, depending if they were reported or not to you by radio.

Those who are reported by radio (radio message received), are taken in account for the feature to cancel time acceleration when contacts occur and the display of the contact provide more informations.

Contacts with no radio messages are also displayed, but with almost no informations. They are also ignored by the feature which cancel time acceleration (Notice that there is a possible cheat for these contacts, if you activate the "SH5 item note" option, you will see, on the note for such contacts, the distance AND THE EXACT SPEED).

The explanation that the contacts which are NOT "radio-reported", are radio transmissions intercepted by the sub, is acceptable for relatively close contacts, but what about contacts found in Mediteranian see, when your sub in in Noth see ?!?! Anyway, for such contacts, it would be quite logical that the feature who stop the accelerated time, would work too. Personnaly, for such a contact, if it is close enough, I will try to intercept it. TDW do-you read this ?

ACS

[Webster]

what about using a lower setting?

say going from 8km to 80km instead of all the way to 350, wont that give the desired result without being too unrealistic for detection ranges?

[ACSoft]

what about using a lower setting?

say going from 8km to 80km instead of all the way to 350, wont that give the desired result without being too unrealistic for detection ranges?
I don't really see what you mean.

ACS

[Webster]

I don't really see what you mean.

ACS

well since going from the stock 8km detection range to a 350km detection range is way way beyond realistic possibilities so what im asking is if something in the area of 80 to 100km would work AND still give you the results you wanted for the mod?

IMO something in the range of 100km at sea could maybe be somewhat realistic under ideal conditions

[ACSoft]

well since going from the stock 8km detection range to a 350km detection range is way way beyond realistic possibilities so what im asking is if something in the area of 80 to 100km would work AND still give you the results you wanted for the mod?

IMO something in the range of 100km at sea could maybe be somewhat realistic under ideal conditions
Stock contacts appear at any distance on the map. For me, as long as these contacts appear on my Uboat map, it mean something detected them (my radio, some Axes aircrafts, some Spies, etc...) and the information was transmitted to me (by radio, by my crew).

Therefore, all contacts which are more far than a reasonable realistic distance to be detected by my crew (apparently for you, 80 to 100km) AND NOT REPORTED BY ONE OF THE RADIO MESSAGES I HAVE RECEIVED, are just wrong (miraculous divination LOL !!!). That's my first point I tried to explain. Point which has, in fact, nothing to do with TDW mod.

Now, speaking of TDW mod, the detection distance at which accelerated time will be cancelled, can be set to whatever you want by default (in the parameters file) and even changed dynamically during the game. So, it is perfectly possible to set it in the range you said. My point is that ONLY CONTACT REPORTED BY RADIO MESSAGES ARE TAKEN IN ACCOUNT in TDW mod and this is not logical. If my crew detect something, I would like to also see these events braking the accelerated time, so I do not miss such kind of events either.

By the way, this afternoon, I had a contact not reported by radio, at about 100km from me and my time acceleration was reduced from 256 to 32. Who done this ? The TDW mod or SH5 code, I don't know.

ACS

[Abd_von_Mumit]

80-100 km distance is not a bit more realistic than my current 500 km settings. As explained in post #1, U-Boot's radioman had no means to estimate range to contact, he could only roughly estimate the bearing to it. So a radio message intercepted by a single U-Boot was of no use at all (unless read).

Thus I'm not worried about science-fictional ranges of sight. These are not to simulate my radio guy ueber abilities. I changed them to simulate BdU, in other words - to turn a useless feature into one that adds playability and a tiny bit of immersion.

By the way, this afternoon, I had a contact not reported by radio, at about 100km from me and my time acceleration was reduced from 256 to 32. Who done this ? The TDW mod or SH5 code, I don't know.

I think it's game. It's driving me nuts. I edited the mod config to try to change it (details: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1488966&postcount=23). Didn't find the proper option for "silent radio interceptions". WOuld be glad to ohave one though - I want the TC be dropped to x1 upon detecting a contact withing the range set by user.

[Krauter]

but this is exactly how it worked in real life.

I highly doubt this.

Though this will improve the game for some of the arcadey players out there, I presume that this will also turn your patrols into those like in stock SH4 where you were constantly seeing targets an an unreal pace.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

I highly doubt this.

Though this will improve the game for some of the arcadey players out there, I presume that this will also turn your patrols into those like in stock SH4 where you were constantly seeing targets an an unreal pace.

You highly doubt what part? That the U-Boots often failed to intercept a reported distant target? :hmmm:

And why would it only improve it for arcadey style of game - could you elaborate? I don't consider my style arcadey, I'm looking for realism... And in my opinion long and fruitless searches of a target after somewhat doubtful and outdated reports simulate reality pretty well.

Just for record: setting the value to 500 km DOES NOT let your watch crew SEE the target (it doesn't let WO report, for example: "Nearest visual contact bearing 324, distance 435 km"). That would be obviously ridiculous, but luckily it's not the case. The trick described above ONLY adds one more bit of information about the target to the message you receive (once), provided it is within the set range - target's course. No less, no more. You will only see the target when you come close to it, just as with any other ship.

[lcplduckling]

well if its just to simulate contact reports i dont see the harm

i remember sum1 telling me the most sum1 can see due to the earth and stuff.. probably did it at school and forgot so i did sum looking into it. Dont know if any1 actually cares but i thought it wud be interesting lol

If your looking for realism and realism alone your watchmen would only be able to see a maximum of 8KM most likely.. and thats with the naked eye or bino's due to the curvature of the earth.

This is the formula to find it out. And this is assuming that because of the extra height gained from being on a conning tower, the watchmens eye hight from sea level is 5 meters up..

D = Square root of (13 x H)

D = max Distance visible H = height above sea level

So as said assuming ur eye level is 5 metres above sea level

The square root of 13 x 5 = 8.06225774829855 Km

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Horizons.svg/679px-Horizons.svg.png

:salute:

[Krauter]

I highly doubt that the way you described was how it was actually done in the war :)

What I meant when I said it'd improve the game for the arcadey types is that you're map is now going to have a lot more contact reports then normal. If that is the case I'm fine with that, however have RAF Coastal Command have a Sunderland fly over your location whenever you recieve one of these