Question about Steel Beasts

[Werewolf]

Hello everyone,

I was wondering, the new version 2.5xx of steel beasts, will it be purchasable later as a complete version or as an uppgrade only?.....I don´t want to buy the 2.4 now only to have to upgrade later if I can buy the whole pack at once......does anyone know?:hmmm:

[Skybird]

It seems to me the older version is not being sold since one or two weeks, with order having been placed on hold. An order you place now for the full version should be the new version 2.538 indeed.

http://www.esimgames.com/purchase.htm

First item on the order list:


Steel Beasts Pro PE
Includes v2.538 DVD, manual, and CodeMeter stick with v2.538 license.
(No upgrade is required!)
ON BACK ORDER. We should have stock in the first week of September.

Good choice of yours. Welcome to the club. You will soon think of it as actually being very cheap, when you realise what you get in return. ;)

[Werewolf]

@Skybird

Thanks for the reply :yeah: I hadn´t noticed that it was the 2.5 version they offered, I´ve focused on buying from the German Okaysoft since I thought that I could get it faster that way, but they only offer the 2.46something version and then I will need to upgrade later.....I´m really interested in that Centauro addition.

Yeah I think SteelBeasts is a good offer too, it´s my impression that you won´t get any more realistic simulation for PC than this......tanksims surely have moved on since the cr.... days of panzer commander :haha:. M1TP2 was really good, I still have it, but I got bored of only being able to play from US side and only in MBT´s. This should be awesome :DL

By the way, you wouldn´t happen to be a glider pilot or something with that avatar of yours?

[Skybird]

I used a glider simulator, Condor, and did just one trip in a real one. Flightsims were a hobby of mine, namely FS9 and Falcon. As Condor's manual put it: if flying would be the language of man, soaring would be his poetry. :)

I seem to remember that the director of eSim said that Okaysoft also is on stop order and will dleiver the new version. However, be advised that it if more expejnsive via Okaysot. There you pay 125 EUROS (currently =159 Dollar). If you order in California, you pay the advertised 125 DOLLARS (currently =98 euros, 4 years ago I payed 88 Euros only...) Usually the envelope slips through customs duty, I have not heared of anyone ever who needed to pay customs. I got two parcels by eSim, 4 years (original release) and one year ago (2.460), and each time I got it after 7-8 days only since ordering. If I were you, I would go with direct ordering at eSim. 27 euros saved are 27 euros saved.

[Werewolf]

I used a glider simulator, Condor, and did just one trip in a real one. Flightsims were a hobby of mine, namely FS9 and Falcon. As Condor's manual put it: if flying would be the language of man, soaring would be his poetry.


Ah I see, yeah flying is wonderful, I flew gliders myself, 2 years, it was my dream to take it further and become a professional pilot, but my left ear stopped me:damn::damn::damn:

I seem to remember that the director of eSim said that Okaysoft also is on stop order and will dleiver the new version. However, be advised that it if more expejnsive via Okaysot. There you pay 125 EUROS (currently =159 Dollar). If you order in California, you pay the advertised 125 DOLLARS (currently =98 euros, 4 years ago I payed 88 Euros only...) Usually the envelope slips through customs duty, I have not heared of anyone ever who needed to pay customs. I got two parcels by eSim, 4 years (original release) and one year ago (2.460), and each time I got it after 7-8 days only since ordering. If I were you, I would go with direct ordering at eSim. 27 euros saved are 27 euros saved.

Well, last time I checked at Okaysoft they offered the 2.46 version and that was only a few days ago. I didn´t realize that they were that much more expensive :hmmm: in any way it´s better to wait for the full new version, probably the delivery time is almost the same and as you say 27 euros saved is 27 euros saved. :DL I´ll just have to lean back and wait :shucks:. By the way, are there any tools out there for modding the game? I´ve seen a lot of stuff about modified skins etc.

[Skybird]

Skins and some sounds can be modded, not more. They keep vehicle modding and changing the technical variables unavailable fromt he public, which makes perfect sense. Most ordinary people simply lack the knowledge and do not have the data to realistically construct new vehicles - having a realistically looking model, is one thing, equipping it with correct armour values and ballistics is something very different, and for these latter points you need to have expert and insider knowledge, or better: experience with the real stuff. Mind you, this sim is not primarily meant to adress the game market's desires, but the military customers decide (and pay for) what it looks like - by their orders of features. eSim provides the tools that are needed to make maps, which are made of two packs, height-maps (the wireframe model), and then texturing it and plastering it with objects. But that is advanced stuff and not many care for it. Better you check out what you already get, it is very plenty, the sim has many HUUUGE maps, and each of them can be covered with a new season and regional scheme easily.

But the good news is, that the mission editor is fantastic. It allows you to do very sophisticated designs, if you put some care and logic into it, nevertheless is easy to handle. I was busy with the also very good editors for Flashpoint and ArmA as well as Sub Command. All these editors also are very good and ergonomically designed, but to me SBP's editor beats them all. Also, you already learn it by learning to handle the mission planning tool - both are very much identical.

My guess is you will hold your hard copy in 2, maybe in 3 weeks in your hands.

[Werewolf]

Skins and some sounds can be modded, not more.

That was what I was referring to :DL

Most ordinary people simply lack the knowledge and do not have the data to realistically construct new vehicles - having a realistically looking model, is one thing, equipping it with correct armour values and ballistics is something very different,

Exactly! :up:

Mind you, this sim is not primarily meant to adress the game market's desires

And that is exactly why I "fell" for this sim immediately :yeah: Realism! No more sacrifice of realism because of arcade shoot'em up crap, no idiotic game behaviour, no more historic limitations etc. etc. ....only as much realism and modern amoured combat as possible for a PC that's all I ask for.


eSim provides the tools that are needed to make maps, which are made of two packs, height-maps (the wireframe model), and then texturing it and plastering it with objects. But that is advanced stuff and not many care for it. Better you check out what you already get, it is very plenty, the sim has many HUUUGE maps, and each of them can be covered with a new season and regional scheme easily.


That sounds excellent to me :).

The only damn thing are those 2-3 weeks hehe :haha:

[Skybird]

no idiotic game behaviour,
Well, sometimes the AI messes things up, too, like any AI. The point is it does so rarely only. The autonomous micromanouvering works very well, and the formation manouvering and tactical behaviour depends on the mission designer.

Just one advise, one of the few hniggles with SBP is that the AI does not reliably detect small water obstacles like small ponds of for example 2-3m size with steep walls. It tends to ignore them and get stuck. If this happens to you, ask again, I then tell you the possible remedies. Major rivers, bridging operaitons and using road bridges works well, though. Battle positions very near to rivers also is a critical issue, if the unit autonomously manouvers to adopt to enemy movement, it can sometimes retreat backwards into the river, and get stuck.

It is very rare, and you can avoid it by adapting your plan or choose your mission map accordingly. the map theme can also be easily edited to get rid of the water, locally, or on all the map. So although it may sound like a big issue, it is not. It is just annoying when it happens.

no more historic limitations etc. etc. ....only as much realism and modern amoured combat as possible for a PC that's all I ask for.
Not only modern. You now can set up original early cold war scenarios as well, the needed vehicles are there now. You can also tune the sim to reflect WWII-technology only, like I described in the SBP resources sticky.


That sounds excellent to me :).
Actually many maps are several times bigger than the maximum area you can have in a mission (some 400 square-km, if I recall correctly, which is big enough for platoon, company and batallion action, most used mission maps are considerably smaller). So you can use several different parts of one map to use for various missions. You can also change the season and geograhic scheme of any given map: it then has the same heightmap, but different architecture, vegetation, desert, woodland or snow schemes, etc.

[Fercyful]

reading carefully all the replies here and now I really want to buy this game :shucks: but have just two questions: can you control the T-55 or T-72? and if you can, do they have "cockpits"?

for me the game will cost 125 x 4 = 500 in my money (those things of global economy... :nope: ) and really want to try those tanks...

thanks! :salute:

[Skybird]

reading carefully all the replies here and now I really want to buy this game :shucks: but have just two questions: can you control the T-55 or T-72? and if you can, do they have "cockpits"?

for me the game will cost 125 x 4 = 500 in my money (those things of global economy... :nope: ) and really want to try those tanks...

thanks! :salute:

They are non-crewable. That means they can be used by mission designer for both Blue and Red, and player can move them via planning, attaching movement commands to them, or via "remote control" from external view, that way handling their movement, but all onboard management and firing is done by the AI.

The playable T-72 is in high demand by players.Unfortunately, players are not what found esim's income, and their military customers have little use and thus no demand for a playable T-72. for them it is not part of their inventory (Fins being the exceptuion), but just a "target". It is sufficient if realistic means are needed to destroy it, and if it autonomously defends by by realsitic means.

SBP has four versions of the T-72, though, the M, M1, B and M4CZ versions. The latter two are a very different class than the T-72 that got destroyed in Iraq '91 and'03 in so huge masses. Those were downgraded, inferior export versions of early T-72-types.

eSim indicated that due to the shift in real policies, their customers shift orientation as well, and equipement for low intensity and assymmetrical wars becomes higher in demand. That's why we see an increasing ammount of fully modelled IFVs as well as armoured trucks, like the Bushmaster, the Eagle-IV, various APCs and IFVs and the Lemur RWS. Such things become more important than heavy tanks for the real military, and SBP's future developements will likely reflect that.

Which means that sooner or later they must start to improve the basic-at-best infantry aspect of the sim.

I had changed a scenario yesterday, playing in Leopard-1A5DKs and having assistance by M-60A3s (boy, these things are slow...), versus T-55s and T-62. Was a complete new ballgame. It also makes you marvel at what fantastic tank in its time the Leo-1 has been. Oh, and the battle with old ammo versus old armour was very, very lethal. Much more than modern ammo versus modern armour. From that experience the Germans seem to have been right to prioritize speed and mobility in the Leo-1. None of these four tanks is armoured sufficiently to give it good survival chances when being hit. seen that way you do not really miss anything with the T-55 not being crewable. Or do you enjoy getting shot up all the time? ;) Fighting in a T-55 versus Leo-1s is not fun...

If editing such a mission for having no laser and thermals included, then it really becomes difficult.

[Fercyful]

wow Skybird! thanks for the detailed answer.

Now I undertand why they are non-crewable... Hope the demand for the T-72 finally make it in the game...

seen that way you do not really miss anything with the T-55 not being crewable. Or do you enjoy getting shot up all the time?

:har: thinking in that way better stay away of the T-55! :oops:

but... I still want the T-72 :arrgh!:

I think I will be happy playing with the Leopard. really enjoy reading your answer.

vielen dank! :rock:

[Skybird]

but... I still want the T-72 :arrgh!:
That want many. :DL Though I am not one of them, the T72 is no object of interest for me to play with.

I think I will be happy playing with the Leopard. really enjoy reading your answer.

vielen dank! :rock:
Schon gut. ;) The Leopards are nice to play with, the three latest versions all with full 3D cockpits that mostly are similiar but nevertheless have all their unique features. Full 3D interior also for the CV-9035, CV9040 B and C, the Pizarro, and the Centauro, also the control console for the Lemur system. M1 and M2 also have modelled 3D cockpits, but they are not interactive and not as detailed. All other crewable vehicles just offer direct jump to the different stations optical sensors and weapons, like in SB Legacy (=SB1 ten years ago). The US army is no customer of SBP. I think no army ever has demanded 3D cockpits, I think esim does exclusively for the gaming market: the eye candy factor.

[Werewolf]

Just one advise, one of the few hniggles with SBP is that the AI does not reliably detect small water obstacles like small ponds of for example 2-3m size with steep walls. It tends to ignore them and get stuck. If this happens to you, ask again, I then tell you the possible remedies. Major rivers, bridging operaitons and using road bridges works well, though. Battle positions very near to rivers also is a critical issue, if the unit autonomously manouvers to adopt to enemy movement, it can sometimes retreat backwards into the river, and get stuck.

Well, in the tanksims that I have had crossing water wasn't even possible and if so the game didn't have the brain to simulate a tank being stock so for me this sounds like a "luxury problem" sort of speak :haha:. But thanks, I will certainly ask for advice :DL right now the biggest problem is that I don't even have the game yet haha and I get more and more keen to own the more you write about it yum yum :88)

Not only modern. You now can set up original early cold war scenarios as well, the needed vehicles are there now. You can also tune the sim to reflect WWII-technology only, like I described in the SBP resources sticky.

Ah I see, so you can actually switch modern technology on and off? :hmmm: well I'm mostly interested in modern amored warfare.

As for the T72 and T55 .... well I would like to try, but actually I would rather like to see more focus on non US equipment like the French for example and their post WWII amored vehicles and tactics, the AMX series and their heavy use of fast armored cars / tank destroyers like the ebr75 and amx10rc. In that way I am quite satisfied with esim's shift of focus on the more "light combatants", I think the addition of the Centauro is great.

By the way speaking of T72 and 55's, have you read about the upgrades a lot of these tanks are going through now?

Actually many maps are several times bigger than the maximum area you can have in a mission (some 400 square-km, if I recall correctly, which is big enough for platoon, company and batallion action, most used mission maps are considerably smaller). So you can use several different parts of one map to use for various missions. You can also change the season and geograhic scheme of any given map: it then has the same heightmap, but different architecture, vegetation, desert, woodland or snow schemes, etc.

Does that mean that the player will never be able to make use of the whole 400 sqaure km map or that it's just surplus to requirements? By the way, can you link scenarios together? I take it that the mission generator is so complex that one doesn't even have to......but I've seen a site where they have a lot of online campaigns going on and I was just wondering if campaigns are possible in single player too?

And as Fercyful says your detailed answers are really a pleasure to read, thanks :up:

[Werewolf]

@skybird:

Oh by the way, the vehicles that you mention which are there for making a cold war scenario, are they part of an upgrade by esim?

[Skybird]

Ah I see, so you can actually switch modern technology on and off? :hmmm: well I'm mostly interested in modern amored warfare.
The tanks are modelled with plenty of technical systems matching their originals, and also a very diverse layout of individual armour plates on different parts of the hull, like in real life. A mission designer can tick on and off any of these subsystems to simulate damaged tanks 8from an earlier battle, for example). check the SBP sticky resources. The mods have thorwn much things together now, but after the info-post and some comments there is a long illustrated essay of mine that explkains in detail and with detailed pictures of stations and menues how to tune the sim to fight like in WWII.

Edit:
forget it, the ressources thread slowly turns into a mess, I do not understand what the mods are doing there, throwing five pages of different content together.
Here it is:
part 1 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1151383&postcount=53

part 2 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1151385&postcount=54

part 3 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1151386&postcount=55

As for the T72 and T55 .... well I would like to try, but actually I would rather like to see more focus on non US equipment like the French for example and their post WWII amored vehicles and tactics, the AMX series and their heavy use of fast armored cars / tank destroyers like the ebr75 and amx10rc. In that way I am quite satisfied with esim's shift of focus on the more "light combatants", I think the addition of the Centauro is great.
In fact many poeple complain that there is so little playable US gear. That simply is that the abrams does not sell well, but the Leopard does, and also, beside the Abrams, there is no other US MBT in use. :) . Of eSim'S military customers, only one or two nations operate Abrams (Australia, Canada), all others decided for the Leopard. That'S why you have 2 different Leopard-1 and 4 different Leopard-2, but until the recent upgrade just one Abrams (m1A1HA). not before just now they included the old M1 with the 105mm as well, because the cockpit is pretty much the same, and the non-crewable M1A2SEP. The major line of IFVs, crewable, are Swedish ones (CV-series, 3 types plus FO), plus the Pizarro. The Bradley is there, too, though. And the range of various (AS)LAV and M113-type of vehicles.

Be advised that the same ammo round can be rated with different effectiveness depending on the gun from which it is fired. That'S with regard to the US 105mm, the German L44 120mm that also is build in licence for the Abrams now, and the new German L55 gun with longer barrel. the latest german Tungsten ammo is almost on par with the third generation US-DU-round when fired from the L44, but the same Tungsten round fired from the L55 is rated with an almost 10% supoeriority over the US-DU round from an L44. Ammo type is not be underestimated in SBP.

By the way speaking of T72 and 55's, have you read about the upgrades a lot of these tanks are going through now?

Pardon?

Edit:
now, ten hours later or so, I understand the question, it took me some time, sorry. On the T-55 I only know that it is the most-built tank ever, with almost 90-100 thousand pieces having left factory. It is still folund in 3rd world countires, that'S why maybe it was wanted as an OpFor unit by customers. The T-72 I read about what popular sites have to say on it. The modelled M and M1 versions are the versions you saw not stopping to pop up in both gulf wars, cheap export versions which were inferior to the versions of their times the Soviets kept for themselves, armour and ammo were weaker, sensors varied, used material and construction quality were not as good as for internal Soviet demand. The B version is new in SBP now, a tough bugger with a powerful punch and AT-missiles. The M4 seems to be the best of the four modelled versions, a Czech versio0n upgrade with Wetsern systems, and the only T-72 in the game with thermal displays (a major force-multiplier). But it is not equipped with AT-missiles.It also is quite fast. The t-55 and T-62 as well as the M60 are very slow, though, never forget that. Compared to them, the Leo-1 is a sportscar and shows what a totally superior tank it was - in its timeframe before the T-72 and Leo-2 appeared. When the T-72 appeared, it was high time for the M1 and Leo-2. especially the M60 i would not have put my mkoney on, when facing a detemrined attack by T-72. They were faster, smaller, and more powerful in punch. The M60's thermals maybe wpould have partiually compensated this, not equalling chances. the Leo-1 probably would have had better chances, due to its better manouverability over the M60.

Many people do not know that the later T-90 - is a later version of the T-72, they chnaged the name for marketing reason after the T-72 expoert models got such a beating in the gulf wars. The T-90 is closer to the T-72 than to the turbine-run T-80.

Does that mean that the player will never be able to make use of the whole 400 sqaure km map or that it's just surplus to requirements? By the way, can you link scenarios together? I take it that the mission generator is so complex that one doesn't even have to......but I've seen a site where they have a lot of online campaigns going on and I was just wondering if campaigns are possible in single player too?
The biggest scenario map possible is I think around 400 km2, but that map can be just a snippet of the actual full map the mission designer cut it out from. I think I saw full maps of 70x70 km, something in that range, but you cannot use all that in one mission - and it would nto make any sense, too. ;) SBP focusses on platoon and company level, and althnough batallion also is possible, you hardy need maps that are outside a size range of for example from 5x5 up to maybe 10x15 km. Do not underestimate "small" missions. Many mission designs exel right in the "small" segment, because that is what SBP originally was intended for in the main: platoon simulation.

No dynamic campaigns. If you want a storyline of missions, you can help that a bit by adding destroyed vehciles into the landscape at the likely hotpsots of earlier battles. But SBP has no special interest in telling storylines. I wouldnot bother for it - the batttle ou already do will keep you busy. And if you are as crazy as I am, you can set up a bigger battle in SP and play thatone for hours. Some designers try to simulaereal milizary excercises and problems, and they do that well. For my own pourposes, I set up missions that fit my personal needs and are optimised for my way of enjoying the sim best. Almost everything is possible in a mission design, you even can tune the sim so that it becomes an aracde action shooter, almost: superior tanks with latest ammo against waves of inferor tanks with 30 years old ammo.

And as Fercyful says your detailed answers are really a pleasure to read, thanks :up:

I am simply convinced of this sim, and i am not alone with that attitude. In the 4 years since SBPPE was released, I read only of two guys who complained about the sim and sold it. Actually more people sold it - but over reasons of lacking time to play it. You will find it difficult to find a second hand copy. sometimes ther eis one at ebay, but only very rarely - people tend to not wanting to separate with SBP again once they found out what thy got. It is a true and full quality product in almost every regard, I only compare Falcon 4 to it. In my avatar you can see that originally i have been a flightsim buff - but SBP changed that. :) Today, of all cockpits sims I knew over the years, I play SBP almost exclusively, the few other games are strategy games.

@skybird:

Oh by the way, the vehicles that you mention which are there for making a cold war scenario, are they part of an upgrade by esim?


For owners of recent versions of Steelbeasts: upgrade. For new customer: the full retail version to be sold from September on includes that upgrade.

The version to watch out for, the new one, the standard, the only one there is, the dearly beloved: v2.538.

It is no "patch" that gets installed over installations of existing older versions. Old version must be fully deinstalled, the new one is a complete new installation, including all the sim's content and files.

Difference between the upgrade and the full package: the files you get are the same in both cases, but upgraders just buy a new licence for the codemeter USB dongle that they have gotten with their older versions that they bought. The files they can download and install for free - but not run them without upgrading that license, that is what they pay for: a new license for their existing dongle, it gets loaded onto it and then the sim runs again. New customers install exactly the same files, but for their money also get the USB dongle with that new license already on it, the printed manual for version 2.460, and the CD.

Upgraders optionally can chose to buy download and CD. But there is not really a point in it. The CD includes six videos five of which are already available in public (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1450432&postcount=10), and more photos for the credits screen when you quit. If oyu have these photos already from an earlier version, you can put them into that new folder. Spending an additonal 7 dollars for CD upgrade really has no point, imo. the installation files are setb up for download for free. Even the technical director of eSim himself says it is pretty much pointless. But if somebody wants to spend more money, they will not stop him from doing so. Upgrade price currently is 25 dollars without CD option. Considering the sioze of the content, that is cheap, really cheap.

It'S the same program package people need, no matter whether they upgrade or buy the full version for the first time. The difference only lies in upgrading the dongle license, or getting a complete new dongle plus printed manual.

It seems to have quite weired effects if peope just install over old versions, or try two separate installations. So again: any old version of SBP must be fully deinstalled, and the new version then installed as the only one being used.

Full vehicle list and anything else one needs to know in the SBP resources sticky. ;)

P.S. I forget to mention in the water part of comment, that amphibic vehicles can swim over lakes and rivers, but they need to have smooth riverbanks/beaches to roll into the water and out, else they get stuck. set up a naval battle between BMP cruisers, if you want. :lol: Bridgelayers can also bridge tank obstacles and minefields. Oooh - there was one limitation on mines or obstacles, I do not remember exactly right now, I think the steel beams are not to be bridged, but the dragon teeth.

[Fercyful]

hey Skybird with your answers more and more I want the simulation, just waiting for the stock for buy it :cool:

(I think you deserve a FREE upgrade from them! :03:)

The Leopards are nice to play with, the three latest versions all with full 3D cockpits that mostly are similiar but nevertheless have all their unique features. Full 3D interior also for the CV-9035, CV9040 B and C, the Pizarro, and the Centauro, also the control console for the Lemur system. M1 and M2 also have modelled 3D cockpits, but they are not interactive and not as detailed. so you can actually "click" on the systems inside the Leopard cockpits? that have to be great! :rock:

you can also play as the driver or "just" give commands to an AI driver? :hmmm:

sorry for the extra questions really enjoy the reading and keep watching videos in youtube until the happy "open-the-box" day :sunny:

[Skybird]

(I think you deserve a FREE upgrade from them! :03:)

I agree, but they never answered to my invitation to discuss this. :sunny:
so you can actually "click" on the systems inside the Leopard cockpits? that have to be great! :rock:
Partially, on some you can, as buttons are relevant for the optics of TC and gunner. But in practice, you do not use that often, at least I don't. I have all relevant controls mapped to a HOTAS I use. In case of emergencies and system failures it helps to iknow where an emergency function can be activated in the cockpoit, if that ius a rare command not mapped on the HOTAs and the keyboard command is not remembered. But truth is that in usual gameplay you use hotkeys to access the various optics, not the click-interface. The 3D interior is helpful in bthe Leopards, becaseu it allows oyu to keep an eye on the monitor with the map and the second monitor with the TIS at the same time, while easily and quickly being able to stick the head out of the turret, and then go back to the inside again. One needs to find a good combination of using the 3D interface, mouse, joystick and - if available - HOTAS. A question of taste, and routine.

you can also play as the driver or "just" give commands to an AI driver? :hmmm:
You can drive directly from the driver's seats both with your head outside, or buttoned up. Also, night vision goggles are available since 2.538. but the driver's function are simplified, since it is a concession to gamer sonly, no order by their customers. There is no manual gearbox, for example, and no instruments. Manual driving is the one thing that was better done in Steel Fury. In SBP, you can also give speed and direction commands from the TC and gunner's station: conitnues turns left or right, 22°-turns, three speed settings, one revewrse setting at max speed, full stop, continue of preplanned route, find best hull-down position up to 300 m away from current position (the AI does that autonomously, then). The rocking back and forth during combat from a battle position, forward for firing, back during reloading, is done autonomously by the driver. You can 3. control the tank via "remote commands" from exterior view (if that is not deactivated by the mission designer), and you can let the tank follow the preset, preplanned network of routes with embark-conditions attached to them.

Much mission play is done before nthe mission starts: if this sim teaches oyu one ting above all others, than tactically planning ahead. Fail here, and you get blown up faster than Rambo can say amen.

If that is information overload for you, think of it as this: you can define either unlimited degree of freedom for the player how to control the tank's movement, but you can also limit player to just interior stations, just the gunner's seat, or just the TC's seat.

[Fercyful]

If that is information overload for you, think of it as this: you can define either unlimited degree of freedom for the player how to control the tank's movement, but you can also limit player to just interior stations, just the gunner's seat, or just the TC's seat. I like to be "overloaded" of info about Steel Beasts :D
I think the options for the driver are great and no need for any other :shucks: thanks again for your replies! :arrgh!:

ps: keep watching Youtube videos here... hope the 2.538 stock will go up this week :hmmm:

[Skybird]

hope the 2.538 stock will go up this week :hmmm:

Check here:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/forumdisplay.php?f=6

you see, tanksim.com's forum is relatively non-active and small, there are the modders and fans of SF and TvT who use it, but the SBP crowd tends to leave here once they got their copies, and move to the eSim forum, because that is where the SBP music plays. Regarding SBP, this forum is somewhat a jumpgate, and I am the gate-keeper: I grab the too curious minds by their necks and throw them into the wormhole. :D

Bon voyage. There is a fun at the end of the tunnel. :salute:

BTW, they have a newsletter service you can subscribe to.

[Fercyful]

I just fall into the "wormhole" :rotfl2: there I use the nick "Vikingo" :arrgh!: thanks for the invitation , I'm downloading things to have them ready for the game :know:

:rock:

[ReM]

Lol Skybird, still singing SBPpe praise over here ;).....they should give you a free upgrade.

Got my 2.538 version today and yes I am off to the Steel Beast forums...

[Skybird]

:DAh, that makes plus two on my list. three, if counting Werewolf also. - Check. :DL

i wonder what the total score is today. judging by mails and feedback in the first year, I estimate it to be in the range between 50 and 60 people that I converted to tracks over the past 4 years. :D Maybe even more when considering the hit-number of my review at that time. most people who decided to buy due to it, probably have not sent me a mail.

Boy I should have become a salesman. :har: and maybe i should switch on my pm- and emailbox again. :D

[Skybird]

CDs with version 2.538 have started shipping today.

[Fercyful]

CDs with version 2.538 have started shipping today.

:yeah: some hours ago I finally order it! -was wating for the stock-

Today I was reading your great 2006 review (http://www.tanksim.com/reviews/steel_beasts_pro.htm) (mate now I clear remember reading it in the past when I was working at a CyberCafe and it was from you :up:) don't know if the simulation change that much since then but the things I read from that version I love them all. Sure in 2.538 the little bugs have to be fixed... now some days to wait :wah: and see for myself :shucks:

thanks!

ps: @esim: -again- my vote for a free next upgrade for Skybird, I bought the game by reading his replies/feedback.... :salute:

[Skybird]

Much has changed, or better, much stuff has been added. Also, 2.538 seems to be most bugless version they have released. Except the mentioned problem with small water holes, and an apparent issue with the bridge layers that in the version pre-2538 I have not had, everything I tried so far worked as intended. Consider that review from 2006 as outdated.

2.538 really is a version to stay with.

[Werewolf]

Ah, that makes plus two on my list. three, if counting Werewolf also. - Check.

Oh yeah, I bought a few days ago when they announced that it had started shipping again :DL

[Werewolf]

@ Skybird

I have just received the package and I started to install, everything went smoothly, it lasted quite a while compared to normal, but I got the message saying that the game had been installed successfully, and then it happened! I got to the code meter bit, I put in the stick, I followed the instructions and suddenly! Error 1740, some idiot script is missing in my windows !?!?!....now I cannot get the codemeter to react, it is not fully installed, bu on the other hand I cannot make it finish its installation because everytime I insert the meter into my computer nothing happens! :damn::damn::damn::damn::damn:

I have tried to install the game 3 times now, only that verdamter code meter will not play ball.

Do you know what to do?

[Skybird]

I would recommend to ask in their support forum:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/forumdisplay.php?f=3

It probably is related to your Windows, I assume you run Vista or W7!? If it is not that, then they may refer you to Codemeter directly, if it is an issue with the dongle software. Anyhow, the support forum is very helpful and has competent people from the company answering, so - ask them. It's the fastest way to get the issue sorted out.

You must not repeat the SBP program installation, it probably has nothing to do with it. The dongle software runs indepedent from that.

You could also enter the script name into Google and try what happens if you manually download and install it - in case your Windows indeed is missing a vital file, maybe it got deleted during an earlier software deinstallation.

[Skybird]

Werewolf,

since you are offline currently, and I can imagine how it feels to need to spend time in waiting, I took the freedom to speed it up for you a bit.

Keep track of this thread, and post there from now on (as far as I know eSim does not scan tanksim forums):

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?p=186571#post186571 (http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?p=186571#post186571)

[Werewolf]

@Skybird:

Thanks a lot for helping out :up:

Hopefully there will be somebody in there who knows what's wrong. :)

[Skybird]

You're welcome. It seems you stumbled into a first-ever issue, else they already would have let you know the remedy. Bad luck!

You could also ask Codemeter directly: support@codemeter.com

[Werewolf]

@Skybird

Haha! Believe me, my computer is an expert in first ever issues, all the stuff that never happens on other computers always happen on mine :haha:I've developed a sort of sixth sense when it comes to that and yesterday I had this feeling that it was too easy to be true....and I was right :damn: :haha:

Once I had this blue monitor issue, the computer would suddenly reboot and show a blue screen, then recycle between this blue screen and rebooting until I swtiched it off. I took it to a repair man, after a week he handed it back to me, free of charge and disillusioned because after a week of intense work on it he could not find anything! And that blue screen phenomenon never happened while it was in his care no matter how much he tried to provoke it.....I took it home, switched it on an after an hour or so I had a blue screen reboot :haha:.....now I haven't seen it for a while, so then of course something else is bound to be wrong now, things have simply been too quiet and uncomplicated lately hehe

[Wilcke]

@ Skybird

I have just received the package and I started to install, everything went smoothly, it lasted quite a while compared to normal, but I got the message saying that the game had been installed successfully, and then it happened! I got to the code meter bit, I put in the stick, I followed the instructions and suddenly! Error 1740, some idiot script is missing in my windows !?!?!....now I cannot get the codemeter to react, it is not fully installed, bu on the other hand I cannot make it finish its installation because everytime I insert the meter into my computer nothing happens! :damn::damn::damn::damn::damn:

I have tried to install the game 3 times now, only that verdamter code meter will not play ball.

Do you know what to do?

Depending on the OS you are running I recommend you go to the Codemeter webpage and download the latest runtime files for your OS.

I am running Win7 Pro 64bit and Codemeter had a specific file to DL and execute and install prior to setting up with my Steal Beasts install. After that I was able to install SB and then have the stick updated with the SP codes. Best of luck!

[Werewolf]

@Skybird & Wilcke:

It worked! The crisis is over :haha:

Thanks skybird for your help :yeah:

wauw the game looks great by the way.....I managed to take an hour to play it this afternoon and got myself shot to pieces in a Centauro :haha: time to have a look at the mission generator now....this game is just...it's like getting behind the wheel of a quality car, even though you haven't really run it yet you can just tell the quality! :up:

[Skybird]

@Skybird & Wilcke:
It worked! The crisis is over :haha:
Thanks skybird for your help :yeah:

Na siehste woll! :03:

time to have a look at the mission generator now

The - what...? :D

....this game is just...it's like getting behind the wheel of a quality car, even though you haven't really run it yet you can just tell the quality! :up:
I'm preaching this since years, but its always the same show with the noobies: wide open mouths and starry eyes... :D

wauw the game looks great by the way.....I managed to take an hour to play it this afternoon and got myself shot to pieces in a Centauro :haha:

Well, that vehicle is a heavy turret on a medcium hull with a medium gun, so the name of the game must be "shoot and scoot". It's not much different with the Leopard-1. These vehicles are vulnerable, and they are the more difficult to play.

Some tips for starters.

Choose the heavy tank of your liking, Leopard-2A5/E/STRV122, or the Abrams. The Leopards are more ergonomic in their gunnery procedures, easier to fight with, and allow the TC better situational awareness (periscope, independent TIS). Then stay with that tank for the next weeks or so, play aroudn with all the sutff to please your curiosity, but then piuck one vehciole and stay with it. Learn it's handling inside out, especially the emergency procedures (gunnery via GAS).

By doing so, you allow yourself the chance to deal with the real challenge of the sim, and that is tactis, reading the landscape to yoiur advanatge, timing, formation manouvering.

From the main menu, use the gunnery practice where you shoot 10 moving targets, and try to get a 90-100% score there. This scoring also effects the skill of your AI colleagues - that'S why it is important. Go there again when you come back to the sim after some days or weeks of break. The shooting is one of the highly realistic physics model in the sim, and you really should try to become an expert at shooting, sharp like a razor.

Deal with the mission editor early on. This is not wasted, becaseu essentially it is the same interfce you use for planning your mission before it starts. Also, use the editor to edit the mission you play next that it allows you to play with the learning vehicle you have choosen. If you picked Leo-2, change playable Abrams to Leoo-2s, and vice versa.

Play small scale mission first, and plenty. Play from TC station only and try to command your platoon from that position exclusively. What you learn in skill that way, is stuff well-learned and will help you to establish routine quickly.

Always think ahead, and have a plan B ready.

Stay low in the valleys, do not advance over ridges - move back, and move around ridges.

Keep away from water holes.

Don't get frustrated. Most likely you will get killed often in the beginning, and most of the time you will not know what, why, and from where. Use the AAR (after action report), switch deisplay to real positions and single vehicles. Via F1 and F5 you can switcxh between map and real world vie - check what a critical shooting situation on the map looked like in the real world. Move via tank-control keys W-A-S-D, control your height via Q and Y.

In map vioew, there is the mline of sight tool. Use it, and use it much. Note the big differences in vehicle heights: Cahlly, Abrams and Lreo-2 are around 3m, but the T-72/T-80 just around 2.1 m. The highest vehicle is the M2/M3 (3.3+ m). CVs and BMPs are around 2.3-2.4m, the Marder 2.9m, the M113 2.4, the Pizarro and Leopard-1 around 2.5 m, the Centauro 2.7m, the Jaguar 2.4 but the TOW-Wiesel just 1.8m. What I mean is: just use the slider controlling the height for the LOS tool.

When setting up a defensive psoition in the map tool, set that psoition a bi8t BEFORE the actual position where oyu think it is. The vehciles will always relocate a bit by themsleves to find optimal positions, up to 300 m, and it is better that when they ´gain autonomous status by the kssion plan, they still have some protective spac eion front of them - they will move forward all by themselves until they can see. even if the gun doers not pass a ridge - the tank will move by itself so that the TC can see what he must see. For the same reason, when using prepared psoitons for tanks (those trenches in which the vehicles hide their hulls, set up the defesne psoiton marker slighty in fron of thew entrance, not directly on top of the trenches. The vehicles than find the trenches by themselves.

Never forget, tanking is a TEAM play. As long as you think you are a one-man-army, you will die over and over again.

2 minutes 40 seconds - that is the usual artillery reaction time. Keep it in miond. Once you have been spotted, it might be a good idea to have left your current position before the time is eaten up. Standard artillery barrages are 200x200 m. Make it a habit to start moving after 2 minutes or so, to clear that box before the shelling starts. ICM can kill any vehcle in the game - especially when the hatch is still open (then a single HE round already may be enough). Note that the Leo-2E and Strv-122 have special hatches that are operated by hydraulics, noit manually. They have improved armour, but they need around 20 seconds before they are shut (or opened).

Learn to close or redcue the GPS shields when you are under small arms fire (some tanks allow that). that small callibre still can kill your TIS and primary optics. When running into artillery, not only close the hatch, but also the GPS shields.

If you have, setup a HOTAS for the sim. Learn to aim and shoot both with stick and with mouse. Many people forget that there is a mouse control, too.

Firing procedures and sight control can be very different in some of the vehicles, especially the IFVs. Be prepared for that.

[Werewolf]

Well, that vehicle is a heavy turret on a medcium hull with a medium gun, so the name of the game must be "shoot and scoot". It's not much different with the Leopard-1. These vehicles are vulnerable, and they are the more difficult to play.

Yeah, but that makes it so much more interesting to learn :up:. I have done what you suggested though, played around with other different vehicles, it would be silly not to with all of those choices, I just keep going back to the Centauro. By the way, one vehicle that could be great to try out in this game would be the Swedish S-tank.

Deal with the mission editor early on. This is not wasted, becaseu essentially it is the same interfce you use for planning your mission before it starts. Also, use the editor to edit the mission you play next that it allows you to play with the learning vehicle you have choosen. If you picked Leo-2, change playable Abrams to Leoo-2s, and vice versa.

Oh yeah, I already am fiddling with this :haha: Problem is that I have so little time right now.

Don't get frustrated. Most likely you will get killed often in the beginning, and most of the time you will not know what, why, and from where. Use the AAR (after action report), switch deisplay to real positions and single vehicles. Via F1 and F5 you can switcxh between map and real world vie - check what a critical shooting situation on the map looked like in the real world. Move via tank-control keys W-A-S-D, control your height via Q and Y.

Oh I do get killed and never am able to figure out why :haha:some times I wonder if I'm completely blind.

Thanks for all of your advice and for helping me out :up:

[Werewolf]

@Skybird:

Oh by the way regarding the mouse control....I will not forget! I only have a mouse and no stick and that is a real pain in the back side, I haven't owned a stick for years, a mouse is simply too slow and difficult to handle

[Skybird]

Quite the opposite, the mouse in sbp is probably the most precise aiming method you can use, especially when tracking moving targets. It'S mopre precise and reacts faster. Many players favour it over a stick. I only use a HOTAS combo for it alows me to have almost all controls within the grasp of my hands. For gunnery, I grab the mouse.

Try it. It'S closer to how the real thing works. And it works better. ;) SBP is one of those rare sims were you can claim with all honesty that a stick is not needed.

[Werewolf]

@Skybird

Actually I tried out the shooting range yesterday and I was surprised how well the mouse reacts when you are encountering moving targets, some times I could let totally go of the mouse and the reticle would follow the target precisely, only I find it annoying when you have to make small vertical adjustments, maybe my mouse configuration is off a bit. For other controls I find the mouse slow and annoying. What exactly is a HOTAS? Remember I'm a newbie :oops:

[Skybird]

HOTAS is a term from fighterjets, meaning

Hands
On
Throttle
And
Stick.

It simply means a throttle grip with many (programmable) buttons in your left hand, and a stick with many buttons in the right hand. That way you can trigger many functions without needing to adress the keyboard (or to let your eyes off the manouvering enemy.

Your comment has given me some doubt that you have understood in full how the mouse is functioning in SBP when using it to control any reticules...!? It is different than when you use mouse control for just panning around with binoculars or outside view. The more the mouse-cursor is moving away from the centre-mark (to which it is connected via a line), the faster it is moving at that direction. It is not linear. If in doubt, check it once again, and very carefully. The mouse allows you to acchieve steady angular movements with much higher precision than even very good, precise joysticks usually would give you - if for no other reason than your hand trembling. It's also easier (compared to a joystick) to track targets that change not only vector but also distance to you quite fast.

The only tricky part with the mouse is to get used to not overdosing the initial steering input - if you do, you can easily use visual lockon to ther tatrgbet and need to reaquire - and that time you take may be the time the other needs to kill you, not to mention that it may expose the turret's flank to the enemy.

If that happens, or you ran into an enemy unprepared, or you lack initial SA (situational awareness), pop smoke immediately, and reverse at full speed. Your Western tank still is quite fast in reverse. Retreating behgind a ridgeline may save you from destruction due to your SA being confused.

Make sure that you do not forget the type of terrain behind you. Water - bad, woods - may make you stop before you reached safety, swamp: slows you down, turning you into a lame duck. Stay aware of these things when tailoring your tactics.

The Leopard-2s have a rear camera in driver's seat. Use the mouse to see the monitor on the left panel.

[Gary Owen]

Oh I do get killed and never am able to figure out why :haha:some times I wonder if I'm completely blind.


Do not forget that Steel Beasts is military training software. One of the most powerful training aspects of the software is the AAR (After Action Review). While in the AAR, you can select to observe all units, blue and red. You can review every hit, both from the map and the world. In the world view, hits are denoted with color-coded vector lines, the colors corresponding to the type of round that penetrated. You can move around the map, viewing engagements from the victor's and the victim's aspects. You can assume an airborne postion viewing the engagements more globally. The AAR files can also be saved for review by others.

Using the AAR well will put you in front of the learning curve and before you know it, you'll be able to figure out precisely why it was that you got killed.

[Fercyful]

Hola Skybird!

I HAVE THE SIMULATOR!! :woot: :rock:haha sorry for the screams/enthusiasm but two days ago it finally arrive (22 eternal days of waiting :doh: -Argentina here and NOT an esim fault, they ship it at once from California, the delay was local- (big thanks to SSnake for the support while waiting!- but luckily it arrives intact and in perfect condition, I have to pay nothing at customs and installs perfect under XP SP3 and the USB codemeter works! :arrgh!::haha:)

I´m already 100% addicted to it (that is why I didn´t write before here...) and I can´t stop playing, trying stuff (adding skins, editor test etc )

thanks for your "tank museum" mission Skybird!! :rock: is so great for try ALL the tanks at once jumping from one to the other :rotfl2:
love it! :up:

I`m playing mainly with the Leopard 2A5DK, I use the mod for put the interior in english and I want to learn with that one the best I can. I read your tips and I will follow them, so much to try that you can get lost ! :doh: better start slow and taste the sim like a good wine!

I really recommend it to all the tank lovers! (why I didn´t buy it before? :88))

just a question Skybird , I think if you don`t know it any will know it... I can`t sleep well becuase this haha

please check these pics...

First one: under "view option" (before playing) in editor T-80 has the gunner hatch open (love the red star there :DL using a skin mod...)

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/2292/01gunnerhatchopen.jpg (http://img121.imageshack.us/i/01gunnerhatchopen.jpg/)


Second one: I start the mission and that hatch close (FOREVER :wah:) and now the commader one is open...


http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/290/02gunnerhatchclose.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/02gunnerhatchclose.jpg/)


Third one: T-55 while playing the mission BOTH hatches are open (so nice! :shucks:)

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1158/03bothhatchsopen.jpg (http://img196.imageshack.us/i/03bothhatchsopen.jpg/)

please do you know why is in that way? I mean I love to see the gunner hatch open but while the mission only the commander one open/close (at T-80 / T-72´s also happens that) with T-55 both hatches open or close due the situation (fire, no fire etc)

can you control that behaviour in some way? using some option at editor? I know is not a killing issue but I like to know if you can control those things... In ARMA (Armed Assault from Bohemia Interactive) when you select "SAFE" the crew open the hatches and drive that way... when the see action they close them. Really want to know if here you can control those things. I try using "b" while driving those units but nothing happens...

well thanks for the patience reading all this and thanks for recommend this great simulation and for all your energy promoting it :yeah:

now time to some playing at the summer tank museum :shucks: (with the hatches open or closed! :rotfl2:)

ps: glad to know about the patch coming and I download the mission pack you post in the other topics! :rock:

[Skybird]

:shucks: And another happy convert. :D

The hatches, well, I am not aware of any way you can control the gunner's hatch.

In several tanks, the gunner can open and close the sight shields, however, which is recommendable when you take artillery fire or small arms fire - even a light machine gun can damage your thermal sight or EMES or optics if it hits the right spot too often.

The TC can manually control his hatch, and should use it in deed. For example a shelling by HE artillery with just one gun tube (sometimes a battery with one gun only is used to mimic light mortars) that would not dasmage a heavy tank with closed hatches, can score a lucky hit and kill the TC or even the entire tank when the hatch is open. The AI is suboptimal in handling it, and it takes control of thr hatch and opens it when you jump to the TC's seat and the nb ack to the TC - in this case, close it again. The AI only closes it if it is aware of enemies that cna harm the tank, or an arty barrage has started. That is a porblme since in the Leo2A6 the hatch is different to the others, it is better protected, but takes around 15 or 20 seconds to close due to the hydraulic (?) mechanism.

No known mods for hatches. All skins necessarily follow the 3D wireframe model of the vehicles.

[Fercyful]

:shucks: And another happy convert. :Dyes! :salute: this is turning into a real SECT :shucks::shucks::shucks::shucks::shucks::shucks:

thanks for your replies about my the hatches madness :doh: good to know if you have it open something can happens and is not just a nice detail touch in the game :sunny:

seems like the gunner in T-55 is waiting for a bullet and he opens his hatch without problems :88)
or maybe is because the tank... you know, with hatch open or close he knows he will be dead soon:timeout: :D poor 55 and I really like the 3D model :up:

well time to.... play! :arrgh!:

[Skybird]

Pepper any of the tanks, friendly or foe, with open hatches with some light MG fire. You should get a message that they are taking fire, and you should see the AI closing the hatch. After some seconds, when it sees no enemy, it unbuttons again.