View Full Version : Officers -> Radioman
Hans Uberman
08-21-10, 07:15 PM
I'm in the middle of a long patrol, and already considering the next skill to give one of my officers. Upon my return to Lorient, I would like to give an officer the Radioman qualification. So my question would be, "Is there any benefit to giving your officer the radioman skill?" I have two petty officers with the skill and it's great, but will an officer placed in the command room with this qualification produce any benefit to the men in the radio/sonar room?
Sorry if this has been stated elsewhere, but my search didn't come up with an answer. :salute:
Somewhere in the mods section I've heard people mention an improved qualification mod that improves them, I'd look around there to start with. Not sure how/what it does, its on my list of things to look for today, I too have wondered about such things - like the helmsman qualification. Way things stand any officer can navigate the boat (something that wasn't true, besides the captain most officers wouldn't know how to navigate unless they were learning for themselves so they could get their own boat) and having the qualification doesn't seem to have any positive effects.
Sailor Steve
08-21-10, 10:45 PM
...will an officer placed in the command room with this qualification produce any benefit to the men in the radio/sonar room?
I don't know, as I've never tried it, but I think the two are tied together. The question I have is why would you want to? I give Torpedo and Machinist skills, so they can be of some benefit where I think it counts. I'd rather have at least two POs with Radio skills.
I do not think so since the compartments are separate. I would give them the repair skill instead. You can never have too many guys with the repair skill.
Some rooms available are not officers of the radio service,but the repair is very important. :yep:
papa_smurf
08-22-10, 05:09 AM
I always give radioman skill to both sonar/radio operator, not sure it makes a difference, but I like to think it does.
I think it does so I do the same papa_smurf.:yep:
Hans Uberman
08-22-10, 09:14 AM
The question I have is why would you want to? I give Torpedo and Machinist skills, so they can be of some benefit where I think it counts. I'd rather have at least two POs with Radio skills.
I already have two officers with both Torpedo and Machinist, plus plenty of petty officers with those skills. I don't really need more. They are handy skills indeed.
Thanks all. I'll test it out just to be sure, but I'll consider an alternative skill for the my final choice. (All other officers have three skills now.)
Redbear
08-22-10, 09:17 AM
I give at least two petty officers the radioman qualification, and rotate them in the radioroom (as they tire), filling the other position with an 'unqualified' crewman. I then give repair, machinist and/or topedo quals since I also feel they will do more good.
desirableroasted
08-22-10, 10:15 AM
The green bar in the RA/SO room does not lengthen if you put a radio-qualified officer in the command room, so I suspect there's no effect.
In fact, since the helmsman qualification is just eye-candy, the qualifications of any of your officers in the control room seem to have no bearing on the boat's operations (i.e., a midshipman medic is just as effective a navigator or weapons officer as a senior lieutenant).
As a result, I give officers qualifications only in Watch, Gunnery, Torp, Machine and Repair (every officer's second qualification is repair; I give my experienced lieutenants a third rating, too).
By the way, its worth remembering that while officers can carry up to three qualifications, petty officers can only have one. If you give them more through SH3 Commander, only the top one "counts."
Jimbuna
08-22-10, 11:04 AM
I do not think so since the compartments are separate. I would give them the repair skill instead. You can never have too many guys with the repair skill.
Agreed.
I always give radioman skill to both sonar/radio operator, not sure it makes a difference, but I like to think it does.
Likewise.
ryanglavin
08-22-10, 11:34 AM
I always give radioman skill to both sonar/radio operator, not sure it makes a difference, but I like to think it does.
Does it make a difference? I've never really noticed anything different from full efficiency with 2 trained petty officers to barely quarter trained with 2 seamen. Other than that the radioman picks better songs for the gramophone...
In fact, since the helmsman qualification is just eye-candy, the qualifications of any of your officers in the control room seem to have no bearing on the boat's operations (i.e., a midshipman medic is just as effective a navigator or weapons officer as a senior lieutenant).
Hi desirableroasted, do you know that for a fact? It's true I couldn't tell a difference so far, but I guessed i.e. better emergency dive times, or rudder operation...so the helmsman qualification is completely useless?
On the other hand, I think I read many times in this forum that a qualified sonar operator has a much better chance to find and report contacts...
But like the helmsman, it's difficult to tell for me, since unreported contacts will be simply not noticed by the player...
Jimbuna
08-22-10, 02:03 PM
Hi desirableroasted, do you know that for a fact? It's true I couldn't tell a difference so far, but I guessed i.e. better emergency dive times, or rudder operation...so the helmsman qualification is completely useless?
On the other hand, I think I read many times in this forum that a qualified sonar operator has a much better chance to find and report contacts...
But like the helmsman, it's difficult to tell for me, since unreported contacts will be simply not noticed by the player...
What I can and will tell you definitively is that there will be absolutely no improvement on your emergency dive times, or rudder operation.
I don't bother having an officer with machinist skills, as I can fully operate the engines by having just one machinst PO and the rest seamen. Helmsman seems a completely useless qualification; who knows if it originally had a purpose but didn't make it into the final release version of the game? I also don't notice much difference from having the gunnery qualification, since I only use the gun to finish off cripples and even then I move in close enough that even a blind crewman could hit the target. The qualifications that I find useful are repair, torpedo and watch. I have two officers qualified with watch, as well as one PO for each watch; seamen fill the remaining slots. I also assign four PO's the radio qualification, simply because that has the most effect on the green bar above their compartment. I use "no fatigue" only on the first patrol, simply because I find that easiest for crew management. After the first patrol I use GWX 8 hour fatigue and assign all of my seamen qualifications for the compartments where I work them. I know seaman qualifications do not take in the game, but I use them as handy markers to make crew swapouts easy. I have two seamen for each vital slot: engines, watch and planesmen, the rest are assigned as torpedomen to help out the torpedo qualified PO's.
I don't bother having an officer with machinist skills, as I can fully operate the engines by having just one machinst PO and the rest seamen. Helmsman seems a completely useless qualification; who knows if it originally had a purpose but didn't make it into the final release version of the game? I also don't notice much difference from having the gunnery qualification, since I only use the gun to finish off cripples and even then I move in close enough that even a blind crewman could hit the target. The qualifications that I find useful are repair, torpedo and watch. I have two officers qualified with watch, as well as one PO for each watch; seamen fill the remaining slots. I also assign four PO's the radio qualification, simply because that has the most effect on the green bar above their compartment. I use "no fatigue" only on the first patrol, simply because I find that easiest for crew management. After the first patrol I use GWX 8 hour fatigue and assign all of my seamen qualifications for the compartments where I work them. I know seaman qualifications do not take in the game, but I use them as handy markers to make crew swapouts easy. I have two seamen for each vital slot: engines, watch and planesmen, the rest are assigned as torpedomen to help out the torpedo qualified PO's.
Early in the war I use the deckgun whenever possible. Rather expend shells than torpedos to sink the small fry (and sometimes even the medium sized ships). What the qualification does do is help with the reload times. If the officer has the qualification or a PO manning the deck gun it will increase the efficiency bar, eventually when it maxes out the reload times can become very fast.
Hans Uberman
08-22-10, 05:59 PM
Early in the war I use the deckgun whenever possible. Rather expend shells than torpedos to sink the small fry (and sometimes even the medium sized ships). What the qualification does do is help with the reload times. If the officer has the qualification or a PO manning the deck gun it will increase the efficiency bar, eventually when it maxes out the reload times can become very fast.
Agreed. The deckgun is excellent for small-medium targets until they're defended with guns. Heck, even then all you have to do is calculate the range, and fire from 3-4k out until you take out their deck gun. (Assuming just one on the back.) The faster reload time is worth it, as it only takes one petty officer to improve it greatly, and he can do labour the rest of the time.
I should clarify my post. I actually do use the deck gun on small fry, but try to play more historically by using it on bigger targets after I have hit them with at least one torpedo. However, I did encounter two unescorted merchantmen during my trip back to Willy after having expended all of my torpedoes. I still had about 65 deck gun rounds [88 mm] and proceeded to fire at the water line of the smaller target first, then the larger target, my rationale being that if I attacked the big target first, I may run out of ammo and both would get away. In any event, both sank. It was too good an opportunity to pass by, even though I would have preferred to have made a torpedo attack first. You have to make the most of any opportunities you encounter.
On small stuff I go for the deck gun; sometimes I employ only the flak gun if the target is small enough. If the target is armed, I do not risk it. One lucky hit can leave me unable to dive and no target is valuable enough for me to risk that!
desirableroasted
08-23-10, 07:01 AM
Hi desirableroasted, do you know that for a fact? It's true I couldn't tell a difference so far, but I guessed i.e. better emergency dive times, or rudder operation...so the helmsman qualification is completely useless?
Helmsman is completely without effect. I've read that several places here on the forum, but have also tested it several times. Dive times, time to full speed, time to full reverse speed, navigation, weapons officer efficiency, etc are not affected a whit.
In fact, you can run a perfectly good patrol with officers with NO qualifications whatsoever.
Helmsman is completely without effect. I've read that several places here on the forum, but have also tested it several times. Dive times, time to full speed, time to full reverse speed, navigation, weapons officer efficiency, etc are not affected a whit.
In fact, you can run a perfectly good patrol with officers with NO qualifications whatsoever.
Learning something new every day...thanks!
Snestorm
08-27-10, 03:19 AM
Is there any way to reduce the effects of officers?
In my estimation, SH3 greatly overestimates their level of contribution.
I'd like to shift the emphasis to having good POs.
Early in the war I use the deckgun whenever possible. Rather expend shells than torpedos to sink the small fry (and sometimes even the medium sized ships). What the qualification does do is help with the reload times. If the officer has the qualification or a PO manning the deck gun it will increase the efficiency bar, eventually when it maxes out the reload times can become very fast.
I use SH3 Commander to set reload times for my 88 to 20 seconds and 30 seconds for my 105. I am aware that gunners could achieve higher rates of fire but I wish to model average sustained rates of fire. Once the small stock of shells near the gun were expended, the crew had to daisy chain shells from internal stores to the deck, thus lowering the average rate of fire over time.
By maxing out the green efficiency bar, will you be able to lower rates of fire below what is set by SH3 Cmdr?
I always give radioman skill to both sonar/radio operator, not sure it makes a difference, but I like to think it does.
Excuse a possibly noob question, but how do you "give" skills or qualification to a particular crew member?? :hmmm:
Hans Uberman
09-09-10, 03:15 PM
Excuse a possibly noob question, but how do you "give" skills or qualification to a particular crew member?? :hmmm:
At the end of every patrol, you can assign one skill to a crew member. In your office, click the file cabinet in the upper left corner, and then click "Awards". Click "Qualifications", click the qualification you want, and then click the man you wish to improve. Drag the icon next to the qualification to the crew member's dossier to the right. Officers can have 3 qualifications, petty officers get 1, and regular crew get none.
You can also use SH3 Commander to edit your crew. (On the window: #10 - Actions - Click here for available actions, then "Manage Your Crew")
when you are in the base time for the next mission,Pick out which of your PO or officers as you want to have Qualifications.
My two officers in the radio/sonar room have different qualification. First one have radioman qualification, second officer is a medic.
I use SH3 Commander to set reload times for my 88 to 20 seconds and 30 seconds for my 105. I am aware that gunners could achieve higher rates of fire but I wish to model average sustained rates of fire. Once the small stock of shells near the gun were expended, the crew had to daisy chain shells from internal stores to the deck, thus lowering the average rate of fire over time.
By maxing out the green efficiency bar, will you be able to lower rates of fire below what is set by SH3 Cmdr?
SHC specifies the max reload time for a team that's fully experienced (i.e. their efficiency bar is maxed) by either a PO or an officer with the gunnery skill. Put 3 fresh red shirt draftees straight out of boot on the gun and it'll take a lot longer than 20 seconds to load. Conversely 3 PO's with gunnery (or an officer and a PO with it) won't be able to load it faster than 20 seconds (or whatever you specify, think 4 seconds is the default) no matter what skills/experience they have.
Due to the inherent hazards of using the deck gun in the first place those crewmen that manage to survive or even begin to excell in using it are generally the ones I promote the quickest. To get out on that deck completely vulnerable to any enemy fire (heck, even harsh language can probably cause enough damage for the medic to have to come save em) takes real guts, or the dedication to the fatherland to be the sacrificial lamb of distraction while you do enough repairs that you can safely dive. Sadly only the deck and flak gun are stations where you can really watch and measure a crewman's skill (since you can't go into the torpedo room and see which crewmen aren't holding their own and which are busting their ass to get the tubes reloaded asap) when it comes times to make evaluations for who actually deserves promotion over the random choice method.
Weiss Pinguin
09-10-10, 10:47 AM
You can use SH3 Commander or, when you are in the base time for the next mission,Pick out which of your PO or officers as you want to have Qualifications.
Yup. I usually run the first patrol, then after returning use SH3 Commander to qualify officers and PO's.
Honestly, I mostly use qualifications to keep track of where crewmen are supposed to go :lol: Machinists go to engine rooms, radiomen stay in the radioshack, watchmen go up top, torpedomen to the tubes. I usually give my officers some combination of repair/watch/torpedo/machinist, and then maybe flak/gunner for the watch officer.
Hi,
I don't agree that the helmsman qualification is completely useless (at least if you use the Longer repair times mod). Having an officer with the helmsman qualification in the command room multiplies the efficiency of the whole compartment by a factor of 1.5 or 2, IIRC. Thus, it decreases the repair times. This can be quite important because the main pump is in the command room and it can play a crucial role for recovering from flooding.
In stock and GWX it's not that crucial because you can easily have a max. efficiency in the command room even without a helmsman qualification. However, if you use the Longer repair times mod the helmsman qualification shortens the repair times of the items in the command room, e.g., the pump.
To summarize, I would say that the helmsman qualification is useless in stock and GWX, but not if you use the Longer repair mod.
Cheers, LGN1
It's interesting reading through other threads about how people prefer to play historically but then disregard the helmsman/radiomen qualifications because they don't get any advantage out of them. I always give the naviagor the helmsman qualification as his top one to help keep track of him, and that it a major part of his profession.
Puster Bill
09-16-10, 10:31 AM
I give at least two petty officers the radioman qualification, and rotate them in the radioroom (as they tire), filling the other position with an 'unqualified' crewman.
I do the same, but when I go to battle stations I put both of my qual'd POs in the Radio/Sound shacks.
desirableroasted
09-16-10, 06:32 PM
Hi,
Having an officer with the helmsman qualification in the command room multiplies the efficiency of the whole compartment by a factor of 1.5 or 2, IIRC. Thus, it decreases the repair times. This can be quite important because the main pump is in the command room and it can play a crucial role for recovering from flooding.
But won't having Repair qualified officers in the control room work just as well or better?
As far as I can tell, "qualified" officers increase control room efficiency, but as the "helmsman" and "radioman" qualifications are operationally useless in the control room and elsewhere, why bother to give those quals out?
desirableroasted
09-16-10, 07:04 PM
It's interesting reading through other threads about how people prefer to play historically but then disregard the helmsman/radiomen qualifications because they don't get any advantage out of them. I always give the naviagor the helmsman qualification as his top one to help keep track of him, and that it a major part of his profession.
But they are historically inaccurate, as far as I can tell.
On all U-boats/merchants/warships, there is, at any time, a "watch officer" or "officer of the deck" , a line officer who is responsible for the vessel's navigation, course keeping, weapons control, etc. Basically, the captain's stand-in. You can't be a line officer without knowing every aspect of the boat (except engineering, though even there a line officer knows a lot, just as an engineering officer knows a lot about topside work).
So I assume all of my officers, having made it out of the naval academy, can navigate. And so "navigator" is a role that a qualified officer plays.
I do divide my officers into the "line" track and the "engineering" track. Line officers can pick up Watch, Guns, Flak, Torps, and Repair, while engineering officers can pick up Machinery, Torps, and Repair.
As for helming... that's a petty officer's role. That's just moving the rudder, increasing speed and whatnot.
And radioman... again, you don't have a radio "officer". It's a petty officer specialty.
Snestorm
09-16-10, 09:28 PM
I use the following.
Engineering Officer: Machinist Qual (Probably should be Repair Qual).
Chief Quartermaster: Helm Qual (Navigator is actualy enlisted).
1. and 2. Watch Officers: Watch Qual.
No secondary qualifications for officers. They are either Engineering, or Line Officers.
No promotion or secondary qualifications for the Navigator , either. As a Chief Quartermaster, he's already maxed out his rank.
My officers are restricted to the Control Room and Bridge only.
The Torpedo, Engine, and Damage Control sections are all under the supervision of Petty Officers.
I also have Line Officers -
I WO Erster Wachoffizier
II WO Zweiter Wachoffizier
These can and will eventually have in order:
1) Watch
2) Gunner
3) Flak/Repair
Engineering -
Leitender Ingenieur
Gets:
1) Machinist
2) Torpedoman
3) Repair
In game terms, Torpedoman is the mechanic who maintains them - most boats had several enlisted/PO under the LI. From the crew listings I get that the Mechaniker ranks were these. The Maschinist ranks were the engine room types - the majority of the crew.
The Obersteuermann and his assistant get the helm - a PO in my boat. As has been mentioned several times, the actual navigator in uboots was this individual - who also was the III WO.
The IV WO was the Oberbootsmann (Bosun) - I generally give him the Repair and station him as the main PO in Damage Control.
This is a bit of overkill - but here is the U 45 as of her loss in late '39:
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/4224/u45crew.jpg
Snestorm
09-16-10, 11:29 PM
Not overkill. Cool.
But won't having Repair qualified officers in the control room work just as well or better?
As far as I can tell, "qualified" officers increase control room efficiency, but as the "helmsman" and "radioman" qualifications are operationally useless in the control room and elsewhere, why bother to give those quals out?
Repairs are done by the crew in the compartment and by the damage repair team (if ordered to do so). How fast the crew in the compartment repairs the damage is determined by the efficiency. Thus, if you have a higher efficiency by having an officer with helmsman qualification, repairs will be faster (if efficiency is not yet 100%). The repair qualification only helps in the repair team slot. Putting an officer with repair qualification in a damaged compartment does not help more than putting an officer without a qualification.
Cheers, LGN1
Jimbuna
09-17-10, 06:40 AM
Nice one Draka http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif
desirableroasted
09-17-10, 02:02 PM
Repairs are done by the crew in the compartment and by the damage repair team (if ordered to do so). How fast the crew in the compartment repairs the damage is determined by the efficiency. Thus, if you have a higher efficiency by having an officer with helmsman qualification, repairs will be faster (if efficiency is not yet 100%). The repair qualification only helps in the repair team slot. Putting an officer with repair qualification in a damaged compartment does not help more than putting an officer without a qualification.
Cheers, LGN1
So, you are saying a "helmsman" qualified officer increases compartment efficiency under repairs? That would imply that sticking a helmsman in a damaged engine compartment would be preferable to sending a machinist there or a machinist/repair officer there. Doesn't make much sense to me.
And I can find nothing in all the documentation, nor on this forum, suggestion that a helmsman has that "power."
I feel -- I have never tested it, but i will at first opportunity ---that repair qualified officers in a damaged compartment effect repairs faster than an officer not qualified in repair.
But I am probably misreading you.
Basically any Officer or Petty Officer with either the Repair Qual OR the Qual with the same symbol for that compartment speeds repairs - so a Signals PO in the Radio/Sonar compartment is more efficient (green bar more full) and performs ALL functions including repair better. In addition, assigning Damage Control to that compartment adds to the efficientcy if it is not already at max. Again, having Damage Control teams with Quals of either Repair or the same as the compartment.
Note: I believe this is for the equipment listed in that compartment - general flooding etc may or may not act like this - I DO know that having the Damage Control party with appropriate Repair Quals helps with flooding when assigned to that compartment.
Make a tad more sense?
desirableroasted
09-17-10, 03:00 PM
Basically any Officer or Petty Officer with either the Repair Qual OR the Qual with the same symbol for that compartment speeds repairs
As I thought.
So, still no need to have helmsman qualified officer. Since all of my officers take "repair" as their second or third merit badge, we are pretty much covered.
And we have pretty much established that having a "sparky" qualified officer is useless.
Sorry, if my post was not clear. Putting an officer with helmsman qualification into the repair team slot is useless. You are right. But having an officer in the command room with helmsman qualification is not useless.
Repairs are also done by the crew in the compartment even without any damage team (just forget the repair team for a second). The repair time in this case is determined by the efficiency in the damage compartment and in case of the command room, the helmsman qualification increases the efficiency by a factor of 1.5 or 2 depending on the rank and thus, the helmsman qualification reduces the repair time.
If you do not believe it, download the longer repair time mod, run the Flak training mission, get some damage in the command room and look how the repair times are changed when you drag an officer with and without helmsman qualification in the command room. But as I said earlier, in stock and GWX the efficiency in the command room is practically always at max., so you will not see an effect.
Basically, a certain qualification has an effect only if the officer is put into the compartment with the same symbol. So, repair qual. helps only if the officer is put into the repair team slot, torpedo qual. only if the officer is put in the torpedo room (bow or stern),... at least that's my observation.
Cheers, LGN1
desirableroasted
09-18-10, 09:20 AM
The repair time in this case is determined by the efficiency in the damage compartment and in case of the command room, the helmsman qualification increases the efficiency by a factor of 1.5 or 2 depending on the rank and thus, the helmsman qualification reduces the repair time.
If you do not believe it...
It's not that I don't believe you, I have just never noted it. I give my officers one new qualification per 2nd cruise (The Ober.z.S start with 2 and the Leu.z.S start with 1), so by my 10-12th cruise, I have well-qualified wardroom. If I put any three of them in the control room, the efficiency meter maxes out.
download the longer repair time mod,
I shall do so.
Thank you for the guidance!
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