Dixie

[The Third Man]

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[Sailor Steve]

Neither. These guys play period instruments, and make you feel like you're there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbRqc0fowoY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrFRn0CVigs

[Jimbuna]

Listening to those songs reminded me of that Clint Eastwood film (don't recall the title) when those Yankees went on the Missouri boat ride...the ferryman didn't know which song to sing events were happening so fast :DL

[Sailor Steve]

The Outlaw Josey Wales. One of the very few Eastwood movies I have in my collection.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075029/

[Jimbuna]

Yep that's the one Steve....with Bill McKinney playing commander Captain "Redlegs" Terrill :sunny:

[The Third Man]

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[Sailor Steve]

I was asking because one struck me as being very much directed toward adults of the time and the other was sanitised for adult children in a PC world.
Your own bias is showing. The problem with your two examples is that the "sanitized" version is much closer to the 1859 original. The military version was written later, to support the Southern cause. Has nothing to do with PC or "adult children", as you so condescendingly put it.

The first one is indeed cleaned up from the original, whose semi-lecherous second verse is included in the version I linked to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_(song)

[The Third Man]

The problem with your two examples is that the "sanitized" version is much closer to the 1859 original. The military version was written later, to support the Southern cause. Has nothing to do with PC or "adult children", as you so condescendingly put it.




Did you get that information from wiki? We all know its accuracy is suspect. I'm asking folks to make a judgement not believe a wiki link.

And now you have scewed the opinions of those who believe you some kind of historian. blah.

[Sailor Steve]

Did you get that information from wiki? We all know its accuracy is suspect. I'm asking folks to make a judgement not believe a wiki link.

And now you have scewed the opinions of those who believe you some kind of historian. blah.
Quickest and simplest. And you can trust Wiki if you be sure to check their references, and he cites more than thirty. A pat retort is almost as bad as your original baiting. Did you post that for an honest opinion, or to start another "Southern is best, and anyone who denies it is PC" thread?

[The Third Man]

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[Sailor Steve]

http://www.civilwarhome.com/dixieorigin.htm
http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/patc/dixie/index.html
http://www.trivia-library.com/a/origins-of-famous-songs-i-wish-i-was-in-dixie-land.htm
http://nativeground.com/articles/88-dan-emmett-the-man-who-wrote-qdixieq-by-wayne-erbsen.html
http://historymatters.gmu.edu/mse/songs/model.html

All internet sources are suspect up to a point, and the origin story itself is suspect, but one point is clear: The song was first played in public in New York on April 4, 1859, far predating your military versions.


Here's one just for you:
http://usads.ms11.net/dixie.html

[Sailor Steve]

Your cynicism concerning my reasons for the question can only come from a person who dislikes the question. And will try to impune the questioner for having a different hypothisis. Scientific theory only works if you allow the question.
I don't dislike the question at all - only the questionable way in which it was asked. My cynicism is based on your own words. Honest debaters and questioners don't ascribe motives ("PC") to people who disagree with their theories before the debate has even begun. Your tactics smack of trolling, and are extremely similar to those of other recent debates involving the Civil War era.

[The Third Man]

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[Sailor Steve]

Next youu are going to say Lincoln's executive order freeing the slaves in states in rebellion was something other than keeping France and Britain out of the war on the southern side.

Or, that all southerners were slave holders. Or, Republicans were the ones who filibustered the 1965 civil rights act.

But I appreciate your views, however wrong they may be.
So your whole point really was to launch another Civil War thread? If you wanted that, you could have been honest and said so.

But here's a question: What did I say that has anything to to with this particular statement? I point out that you're wrong about the two versions of the song, and that your blaming PC for it is in error, and your reply is to launch into an assumption of what I'm going to say? Why not continue debating your original question, if that's what you truly wanted?

[The Third Man]

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[Sailor Steve]

Uh-huh. I apologize for that. Now please try to address my links, and the question of which version is the more original.

[The Third Man]

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[Takeda Shingen]

I haven't rolled over and died. lol.

No, but your argument has.

[frau kaleun]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/Jayzmanz/obvious.jpg

[The Third Man]

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[Takeda Shingen]

My buddie Takeda Shingen.

What argument? My original post stands for all to judge. Now I'm the target?

Who's attacking you? I thought we were talking about Dixie. I also thought that Steve clearly refuted your arguement and backed it with sound facts. I am sorry if you feel personally insulted by that.

[The Third Man]

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[Takeda Shingen]

I don't consider wiki as fact. do you? If so than I won't expect any refutement in the future.

Also like I told Mr. Steve, I leave it to the membership to make judgement, is that so wrong?

He posted numerous non-wiki links. And, as part of the membership, I made a judgement.

[The Third Man]

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[Takeda Shingen]

Do I threaten the ideas of so many on Subsim that I am the Sarah Palin of this board?

If so I bow for the attention, and wonder why?

I don't feel threatened by you. No one does. You just seem to take great offense whenever someone disagrees with you. One of the basic tenents of the web is that if you can't handle having your views challenged, you probably shouldn't post them on an internet forum.

One of Steve's complaints was that you make an assertation and then command others to refute it. Unfortunately, that is not how any discussion works. I can claim that zebras are blue and orange striped. It is my assertation. The burden of proof is on me. To do anything less is simply conducting a dishonest process, which people will resent.

Oh, and for the record, Wikipedia is credible enough to serve as source on an internet forum. Forums are like taverns, not lecture halls; you don't do hard research on one, and if you are looking for it then you are in the wrong place.

[Sailor Steve]

I was asking because one struck me as being very much directed toward adults of the time and the other was sanitised for adult children in a PC world.
That comment is what started this, not anything I said. It was an obvious challenge to anyone to disagree with you, and at the same time a dismissal of anyone who would. Are you now hiding from the debate you started, or are you unable to answer my other links. I've seen this before - make a claim, and when someone makes an attempt to refute it hide behind innuendo and redirection.

I've gone beyond Wiki, so an attack in that direction is no longer valid. Can you discuss the other links? My point as to which version came first, and which is the change, still stands.

So, rather than assume what I would say if the discussion were about something else, please address my original comment on which version came first. That was your original point, wasn't it?

[The Third Man]

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[The Third Man]

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[Sailor Steve]

I can think of a few members who should bear the same burden. Yet it's the new guy who is called troll and attacked for views which are contrary to the board ordinary.
And once again that particular style seems familiar.

You aren't called troll and attacked for "views which are contrary to the board ordinary." You are called troll for redirecting threads to suit an agenda and for avoiding honest debate.

And can you show an actual attack in this thread, or any other. Someone pointing out that your arguments are devious is not an attack; it's an observation. I have addressed your comments, and you have responded with dismissals of sources without addressing the references contained within those sources, and refusal to address the other sources provided.

Honest debate is welcome. But show me where you have engaged in honest debate.

[Sailor Steve]

Your ideas are no more correct than mine. Stop being a bully.
I didn't say they were. I presented an argument, which you are still avoiding. How does asking for an honest answer make me a bully?

[The Third Man]

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[Takeda Shingen]

You certainly are being a bully to the new guy. Ask your honest question again and I suspect it won't be honest. It will be a question designed to bully the new guy and make him look follish.

Steve's not bullying you. If he disagrees with the content, he posts to the contrary. He does it with many long-time members, and if you read his posting history, you'll see that. He's as honest a broker as you'll find on the web, and a better man than I.

[The Third Man]

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[Takeda Shingen]

Your opinion of course, but I feel like I have been picked out as a, to use your word, a target.

How can I complain about his, and to be honest your behavior, Takeda Shingen? Or are both of you so far beyond us low folks?

Well, if you want to complain about me, you can PM my boss, Mr. Stevens. Links to his email and PM box are all over the place. He'll read it.

[Sailor Steve]

Or are both of you so far beyond us low folks?
It's easy. I have a longstanding reputation here for personal honesty. If you actually show specifically what I've said that is wrong, I'll invariably aplogize. One of my favorite quotes is from the French philosopher Josef Joubert, and I seem to end up repeating it a lot:

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should be not victory, but progress."

I don't expect anybody to agree with me, and I'm wrong much more than I'm right, and I usually assume that I don't have any answers.

What I like is honest debate, and learning new things. What I don't like is dishonest debate, which usually involves making claims and refusing to back them up, dismissing claims made by ridiculing either the source or the claimant himself, and reverting to name-calling when the other tactics don't work.

If the majority disagrees with me (or one person, if he shows proper sources), I'm the first to take a step back, look at the evidence, and reassess my arguments and what I thought I knew.

If the majority disagrees with you, do you do the same, or do you talk about how you're being mistreated? I won't bring up 'Dixie' again if you don't like it, but when someone asks for specifics it's usually considered appropriate to provide them, or to admit that you might be wrong.

So please specifically show me what I said that could be considered bullying, and I'll apologize. To my mind all I thought I was doing was asking for an answer.

[The Third Man]

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[Sailor Steve]

Says you.

I have the same rep in my life.
But in my case you can search the forums and see it yourself. Or ask any one of a hundred people.

In your case we have only your word for it. Here we are known only by what we post, and the way we act.

[The Third Man]

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[Sailor Steve]

You are absolutely right. But at some point you have to move over for the next generation. The more you hold on the less signifigant you are.
Once again you seem to be changing directions to avoid the point. This is about honesty in discussion, not generations. You need to prove yourself first. Your arguments have been totally disingenuous so far.

If you have looked at your most recent posts you may recognize your fall. Time for the new wave.
So now we're back to specifics versus vague accusations. Please stop trying to change the subject and show exactly how my recent posts lead to that conclusion.

[The Third Man]

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[Sailor Steve]

I get it. You don't like the post. Your posts show you as a long beard and you aren't up to letting go of that position and will fight to endure.
And now we're back to diversion and game-playing. Are you capable of a real discussion?

I give you what you want. That yummy feeling that you are imminently superior and aleays correct, when the rest of us know better.
And here I just finished saying that was exactly what I don't want. All I want is for you to have a real discussion without stooping to personal attacks. Is that possible?

Sailor Steve is always correct.
And I just finished saying the opposite of that as well. So, at the risk of you running back to the defensive and the "bullying" charges again: are you ever going to answer any of the arguments made against your accusations, or are you just going back to more accusations?

You've accused me of all kinds of things, but you steadfastly refuse to present facts and address arguments. Will you ever give a straight answer?

[The Third Man]

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[Hottentot]

Uh, not to interrupt, but I just had this urge to say that I have been lurking here almost daily since I registered and seen all sorts of things here in General Topics, but can't remember any other discussion making me go more :doh:.

Postwise I'm a new guy, so let's see if Sailor Steve is going to bully me too. Somehow I don't think he will. I've had years to come into the conclusion that he is a very decent fellow.

Carry on, I'll surface again in the next few years.

[The Third Man]

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[sergei]

One of my favorite quotes is from the French philosopher Josef Joubert, and I seem to end up repeating it a lot:

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should be not victory, but progress."


OT slightly, sorry for butting in.
Just wanted to say that is an outstanding quote.
I have so many debates with people who seem to think that winning the argument is everything no matter how ludicrous their argument becomes.
Seeking the truth is more important IMHO.

That is all.

Back to the bunfight.

[Hottentot]

Then I am a dumb a.....s. I will bow down and never question another person on this board.

OK?

[Jimbuna]

Now I know why I experienced a restless night in bed...there was a disturbance in the force :yawn:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6943/starwarsst61.gif

[mookiemookie]

I have never seen a more innocuous topic turn into such a battle royale. This is just bizarre.

[Weiss Pinguin]

I have never seen a more innocuous topic turn into such a battle royale. This is just bizarre.
I think it's time for some Boobies :yep:

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/562/dancing20blue20footed20.jpg

[The Third Man]

I think it's time for some Boobies :yep:

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/562/dancing20blue20footed20.jpg

You have some great boobies there Weiss Pinguin. I could have used them last nite.

[DarkFish]

I have never seen a more innocuous topic turn into such a battle royale. This is just bizarre.
I think it's time for some Boobies :yep:
I've never seen a more royale battle turn into boobies:-?
Only at subsim.com:up:


P.S. Where's Dowly when you need him?

[Platapus]

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/562/dancing20blue20footed20.jpg


I think we can all agree that any topic in General Topics can be improved by the gratuitous display of boobies. :yeah:

[Oberon]

You can see the origins of Dixie in Irish music, which makes sense considering how many Irish went to the States.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvim1p_iW9g

Although I've always had a bit of a weakness for the old 'pipes ;)

[The Third Man]

You can see the origins of Dixie in Irish music, which makes sense considering how many Irish went to the States.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvim1p_iW9g

Although I've always had a bit of a weakness for the old 'pipes ;)

Outstanding! I love the Irish. That it is in my blood is all the more reason.

[Jimbuna]

You can see the origins of Dixie in Irish music, which makes sense considering how many Irish went to the States.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvim1p_iW9g

Although I've always had a bit of a weakness for the old 'pipes ;)


http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/DJ_HirnRiss/G%20R%20E%20A%20T%20ANIMATIONS%20GIF/CrowsElectricShock.gif

[Gerald]

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/DJ_HirnRiss/G%20R%20E%20A%20T%20ANIMATIONS%20GIF/CrowsElectricShock.gif poor penguins or is it a joke :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Penguins? :hmmm:

[Gerald]

Penguins? :hmmm: :roll: