Iraq war vet kills pregnant wife and daughter before turning the gun on himself

[Castout]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100820/ap_on_re_us/us_veteran_family_slayings

:-?.

Lives wasted. What could have triggered it?

[frau kaleun]

Well, PTSD would be high on the list of possibilities.

Very sad.

[Platapus]

Tragic. :nope:

[SteamWake]

Its' Bushs fault... :doh:

Sorry...

The VA is struggeling to cope with these types of disorders and frankly not doing a very good job of it. The number of soldier suicides outweigh the number of 'combat deaths' by nearly two to one.

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=52049

[Jimbuna]

A sad and senseless waste :nope:

[Moeceefus]

These type of tragedies happen quite often and in most cases, the offender has no military history. I cant say there is no connection here with PTSD, but it seems unlikely.

[Platapus]

If some guy want's to bump himself off, that should be his right. But I simply can' understand this "taking people with you" attitude that seems to be common (or at least reported more)

OK, your life stynks, go ahead and pop your self if that's the best solution you can think of, but other people's lives may not stynk, OK? :stare:

[jumpy]

Its' Bushs fault... :doh:

Sorry...

The VA is struggeling to cope with these types of disorders and frankly not doing a very good job of it. The number of soldier suicides outweigh the number of 'combat deaths' by nearly two to one.

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=52049

That's a very harsh statistic. I bet most of them (if not all - not necessarily because of the disparity of men-women serving in the armed forces?) are men from the ages of 18 to 40 years old.

Some time back, I read an article that detailed the comparison between men and women in the UK who kill themselves.
It was the men who tipped the scales in finding absolutely no point in suffering with the seemingly un-ending despair that life and relationships have to offer. The suggestion was that unlike women, many males lack the support and intimacy with friends and family, and so when catastrophic change enters their life, they cannot cope or adapt to these new circumstances.

Personally I think it has a lot to do with what you see as being fundamental to your worth and happiness in life.
I can tolerate being alone, and in that sense I don't need anyone else to feel good about myself. But, I don't like it. Solitude has its place, but it does not allow you to grow as a person.

Humans are social creatures - if you take away the solidarity that exists with all human relationships, be they intimate or friendships, then the spirit will wither and die. Confine any animal (or human) to a solitary existence and they will eventually break.

I believe it is this same sense of isolation from those who you deem to be important in life that causes many people, who do not suffer a recognised mental health problem, to kill themselves. The isolation and loneliness is more than they can stand - be it a physical separation from people, or an experience that cannot be shared (or is believed to be so) with those who have not experienced the same.

As for what drives an individual to kill family members too... I think that's down to the personality. Speaking only for myself here, were it ever to come to that, I think I'd be more likely to harm myself than another. But without any explanation or evidence to corroborate or refute speculation, outsiders can only say - they must have been in a very dark place to feel that the action was needed, or that the normal strictures all of us possess had, for some reason, failed at that moment.

When you honestly believe your life has no value or purpose or future, what other choice is there, other than to end what you see as insufferable?
Of all the things humans must endure in life I think that is the most terrible and the most tragic consequence of self-awareness.
I also think that many who choose to kill themselves (and others) because of this, are more than likely, intelligent, articulate, compassionate and self-aware people.

I guess sometimes ignorance really is bliss.

[Ducimus]

Well, PTSD would be high on the list of possibilities.

Very sad.

Why not call it Shell shock (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQLA7GNr4tY) instead of PTSD?

[Platapus]

Or battle fatigue?

The malady has been with us for a long time. :nope:

[Skybird]

Well, PTSD would be high on the list of possibilities.

Right that. I would even would bet money on it, becasue probability is high if he is a vet.

I use to think of PTSD as sadistic, silent killer. It is like a virus having infested a system.

Very big problem it is, and despite recent rise in recognition it still is underestimated.

[Ducimus]

Or battle fatigue?

The malady has been with us for a long time. :nope:

I think Shell shock is better. I reference Carlin a lot, particuarly when it comes to language because i think he makes a good point. When it comes to this condition, he makes an EXCELLENT point. Shell shock, almost sounds like the guns themselves.

The language we use has toned the meaning of this condition under complete jargon. Say it to yourself: (or listen to carlin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQLA7GNr4tY) go through it.)

Shell shock!!
Battle Fatigue....
Operational exhaustion...
Post-Tramuatic Stress Disorder...

And now.... its' been reduced even further to an acronym.
PTSD.

With "Shell shock", you hear the words, and you can pretty much figure out the meaning without the aid of a dictionary or wiki. With PTSD, the pain of the condition is completely buried under jargon, which in turn has the side effect of people not taking it as seriously as they should, and vets not getting the help they need.

[The Third Man]

How many times have we heard the same story in domestic violence scenerios which have no relation to the military? Many times. The effort to link the military to murder/suicide is based upon a flawed premise.

[Aramike]

He killed his pregnant wife and daughter. While I won't rule anything out I also don't want to exclude the fact that he could have just been a nutjob, something that we sometimes fail to examine when it comes to veterans due to their service.

[Aramike]

How many times have we heard the same story in domestic violence scenerios which have no relation to the military? Many times. The effort to link the military to murder/suicide is based upon a flawed premise.Exactly. Again, don't discount the possibility, but don't assume either.

[Moeceefus]

I think Shell shock is better. I reference Carlin a lot, particuarly when it comes to language because i think he makes a good point. When it comes to this condition, he makes an EXCELLENT point. Shell shock, almost sounds like the guns themselves.

The language we use has toned the meaning of this condition under complete jargon. Say it to yourself: (or listen to carlin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQLA7GNr4tY) go through it.)

Shell shock!!
Battle Fatigue....
Operational exhaustion...
Post-Tramuatic Stress Disorder...

And now.... its' been reduced even further to an acronym.
PTSD.

With "Shell shock", you hear the words, and you can pretty much figure out the meaning without the aid of a dictionary or wiki. With PTSD, the pain of the condition is completely buried under jargon, which in turn has the side effect of people not taking it as seriously as they should, and vets not getting the help they need.


I think the medical term its ended up as is that way because it applies to a disorder that anybody can suffer, not just military personal. For instance, if you were traumatized by a bad car accident, you wouldn't refer to this condition as shell shock or battle fatigue right? It is a stress disorder that is caused by some past traumatic expierience. Medically, the name makes perfect sense. The disinction will only help to further develop treatments for it in peace time and in times of war.

[jumpy]

bit of a revival, but I just read this article on the beeb:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11057430

Some of the statistics seem a bit woolly, guess that's just the article?

No easy answers.

more reading here: http://www3.gazette.com/documents/epiconreport.pdf

[Castout]

If some guy want's to bump himself off, that should be his right. But I simply can' understand this "taking people with you" attitude that seems to be common (or at least reported more)

OK, your life stynks, go ahead and pop your self if that's the best solution you can think of, but other people's lives may not stynk, OK? :stare:

People who want to pop themselves are always in extreme distress. . . .
Extreme apathy and or extreme anger may cause them intent to cause harm to others. They are mentally unfit to think for themselves when they are in such situation. What they need is help and sympathy not condemnation

bit of a revival, but I just read this article on the beeb:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11057430

Some of the statistics seem a bit woolly, guess that's just the article?

No easy answers.

more reading here: http://www3.gazette.com/documents/epiconreport.pdf


War seems to degrade people participating in it even when they are no longer in that war or in a new peaceful environment.
Sad thing is these men are still so young they have their lives in front of them.

[Platapus]

I think Shell shock is better. I reference Carlin a lot, particuarly when it comes to language because i think he makes a good point. When it comes to this condition, he makes an EXCELLENT point. Shell shock, almost sounds like the guns themselves.

The language we use has toned the meaning of this condition under complete jargon. Say it to yourself: (or listen to carlin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQLA7GNr4tY) go through it.)

Shell shock!!
Battle Fatigue....
Operational exhaustion...
Post-Tramuatic Stress Disorder...

And now.... its' been reduced even further to an acronym.
PTSD.

With "Shell shock", you hear the words, and you can pretty much figure out the meaning without the aid of a dictionary or wiki. With PTSD, the pain of the condition is completely buried under jargon, which in turn has the side effect of people not taking it as seriously as they should, and vets not getting the help they need.


How about Blechkoller considering what website we are on?

[AVGWarhawk]

They apparently had been faithful to each other, investigators said,


Apparently faithful....but not entirely determined to be on the level. There are many things that could set this young man off. Shell shock, PTSD or infidelity of his wife.