Armed Merchant ships

[Flaxpants]

Last night I attacked a large merchant just off the spanish coast- as the weather conditions permitted, I thought I would save some torps and take it out with the deck gun. Very quickly I realised that the ship in question was firing back at me, fortunately I managed to deal with him before he caused me any serious damage.
Having not played the game long enough yet to have encountered many different types of merchant ships, I was wondering how many of them are likely to be equipped with guns? Are there certain types of ship that are more likely to be armed? It turned out that this ship was carrying military vehicles so perhaps it has something to do with it's cargo- or do particular types of merchant ships carry guns regardless?

[timmy41]

what year?

[Alpha Von Burg]

As Timmy mentioned, it depends on what year you are playing in. In the the early stages of the war, it was rare to have an armed merchant.

As the war progressed, merchant ships on both sides saw the rising threat of enemy suface ships, submarines and u-boats and had to defend themselves.

[HW3]

As the war progresses, it will be the rare merchant that isn't armed.

[Flaxpants]

Good point- I love the depth of this game!
August 1941, and I'm running GWX gold.

[U777]

My career is at March of '41 and Merchants are armed, well all the ones I ran into which means no more fun speedboat style charges with a torpedo lob :down:

[Synthfg]

39 into 40 it's fill your boots with the deck gun By 41 armed merchies are fairly common, by 43 everything is armed

[Flaxpants]

Righto then. Thanks guys, learning a new thing every day!

[papa_smurf]

39 into 40 it's fill your boots with the deck gun By 41 armed merchies are fairly common, by 43 everything is armed

Very true:yep:

[RConch]

It has been my experience that any time after December 1940 all large and medium ships are armed.
By mid 1941 all are armed.

[bookworm_020]

After 43' the only things that don't have a gun on them is the sail boats and other micro ships!

[Flaxpants]

After 43' the only things that don't have a gun on them is the sail boats and other micro ships!

Hehe, look out pleasure sailors and fishermen and anyone else in a dinghy!
U-527 coming to a grid ref. near you soon!

[sharkbit]

Beware-many of the gun crews on merchants are pretty eagle eyed and are quite accurate.

I try to avoid gunning it out with merchants anymore late war. In fact, I usually unbolt my deck gun and chuck it over the side to remove that temptation.

:)

[Skunkito]

Can you specifically target the gun on the merchant and take it out first? Or does it carry on firing?

(newbie question I know)

[Herr-Berbunch]

Can you specifically target the gun on the merchant and take it out first? Or does it carry on firing?



You can try, if you get it then it will stop, but first you do have to get it! :nope:

[frau kaleun]

Can you specifically target the gun on the merchant and take it out first? Or does it carry on firing?

(newbie question I know)

You can order your gun crew to aim for specific targets. Waterline, hull, weapons, bridge are the options I think. There are icons that come up when you access the gun commands.

In theory taking out the bridge - or maybe it's the control room, I can't remember exactly how it's worded - anyway, taking that out would destroy the ship's communications center (so they can't call for help and give away your position). Poking holes in the ship along the waterline will make her sink faster.

If she's armed I guess going for her weapons is a no-brainer but I usually just submerge again as quickly as possible and rely on eels if she doesn't seem likely to sink from whatever damage I've already done.

[Skunkito]

Ah no, I'm aware of that - I meant specifically if I take manual control and aim for the gun crew on the merchants deck will it not kill them pretty sharpish?

I mean I'm quite a good shot, I would ahve thought putting a HE round within 10 feet of a gun crew would be the end of them.

[frau kaleun]

Ah no, I'm aware of that - I meant specifically if I take manual control and aim for the gun crew on the merchants deck will it not kill them pretty sharpish?

I mean I'm quite a good shot, I would ahve thought putting a HE round within 10 feet of a gun crew would be the end of them.

If the weaponry itself is destroyed, I assume it's destroyed and they can't return fire, no matter who was aiming your gun when the shot was fired. I don't think the game would give you the option of ordering your men to target another vessel's weapons if actually hitting them didn't make any difference.

But I do suspect you would have to destroy the weapons themselves, or do enough damage for the AI to consider them no longer operable, regardless of how many enemy crew would (in theory) be taken out by any near misses on the weapons themselves.

Also, be aware that an armed enemy, if its weapons are operable, will continue to fire on you even if it's sinking. I think there are some screenshots floating around of enemy ships still firing shells at a uboat even as the decks slip below the surface.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Also, be aware that an armed enemy, if its weapons are operable, will continue to fire on you even if it's sinking. I think there are some screenshots floating around of enemy ships still firing shells at a uboat even as the decks slip below the surface.

Yeah, but somewhere on here there is a pic of a U-boat underwater with it's deck gun still manned, so two can play that game! :D

[frau kaleun]

Yeah, but somewhere on here there is a pic of a U-boat underwater with it's deck gun still manned, so two can play that game! :D

Oh, this happens on a regular basis on my boat. I have a bad habit of ordering my men to finish off wounded prey with the deck gun, then watching the victim sink and retiring to my bunk with a great sense of satisfaction from a job well done... without remembering to order the men to stand down from the gun and return to the bridge for their usual watch duty.

Last time I did this I returned to the bridge a few hours later to find my WO standing watch on the tower all by his lonesome in a vicious storm, on account of the rest of the lads were fully occupied with holding their breath for minutes at a time and clinging to the gun for all they were worth. :yeah:

[U777]

Its a shame we can't use the two MG-42's I see stored in the tower beside the helmets, I guess their mainly there to ward off boarders in addition to the MP-40's on board as well as being used to board enemy vessels. As for the topic, if the merchant's crew generally sucks at aiming my deck gun crew makes short work of their weapons.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Last time I did this I returned to the bridge a few hours later to find my WO standing watch on the tower all by his lonesome in a vicious storm

About time he put the hours into his job :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Ah no, I'm aware of that - I meant specifically if I take manual control and aim for the gun crew on the merchants deck will it not kill them pretty sharpish?

I mean I'm quite a good shot, I would ahve thought putting a HE round within 10 feet of a gun crew would be the end of them.

You would more than likely be destroyed before you got close enough to be as accurate as required.

If the weaponry itself is destroyed, I assume it's destroyed and they can't return fire, no matter who was aiming your gun when the shot was fired. I don't think the game would give you the option of ordering your men to target another vessel's weapons if actually hitting them didn't make any difference.

But I do suspect you would have to destroy the weapons themselves, or do enough damage for the AI to consider them no longer operable, regardless of how many enemy crew would (in theory) be taken out by any near misses on the weapons themselves.

Also, be aware that an armed enemy, if its weapons are operable, will continue to fire on you even if it's sinking. I think there are some screenshots floating around of enemy ships still firing shells at a uboat even as the decks slip below the surface.

Once the vessel had all its hit points exhausted/destroyed all compartments act accordingly....including the weapons.

If a ship continues firing whist sinking there are still some hit points remaining.

[frau kaleun]

Once the vessel had all its hit points exhausted/destroyed all compartments act accordingly....including the weapons.

If a ship continues firing whist sinking there are still some hit points remaining.

Interesting - so presumably the only time an armed but sinking ship stops being a threat is after the "she's going down" message?

Or can you destroy their weapons by firing at same, thus taking those out of action, even though she's still got "hit points" left before the game deems her "sunk"?

I'm just wondering if there's any merit at all in having your gunner aim for the weapons, since that is an option when commanding the gun crew. If they're gonna remain operable until you've officially sunk her, no matter how many rounds you put into them, seems like there's not really much reason to single them out as a primary target.

[Jimbuna]

Interesting - so presumably the only time an armed but sinking ship stops being a threat is after the "she's going down" message?


Yep that's the case.


Or can you destroy their weapons by firing at same, thus taking those out of action, even though she's still got "hit points" left before the game deems her "sunk"?


Yep


I'm just wondering if there's any merit at all in having your gunner aim for the weapons, since that is an option when commanding the gun crew. If they're gonna remain operable until you've officially sunk her, no matter how many rounds you put into them, seems like there's not really much reason to single them out as a primary target.


If you destroy the guns they'll stop firing so you've a choice I suppose but not a good one because as you well know, your sub is a shell magnet and it doesn't take many hits before it becomes a lead weight :DL

[frau kaleun]

If you destroy the guns they'll stop firing so you've a choice I suppose but not a good one because as you well know, your sub is a shell magnet and it doesn't take many hits before it becomes a lead weight :DL

Too right, my response upon discovering that a merchant is armed is to submerge and finish her off with an eel if need be. I've never stayed up long enough in that situation to try and take out her guns.

Just wondered if there was any real merit to the "aim for the weapons" command since the question of doing so came up.

[K-61]

Another strategem to consider is to approach from dead astern, minimizing their ability to train their weapons on you. From dead astern you can still pump shells into her steerage area and possibly cripple her rudder and props, thus immobilizing it and then you pump holes below her waterline with the deck gun. As a rule, I avoid gunnery duels with armed targets. It's just not worth the chance of one lucky hit that will prevent you from diving. A sub that can't dive is a very vulnerable target.

[HW3]

Another strategem to consider is to approach from dead astern, minimizing their ability to train their weapons on you.
Most ships have a really big gun on the aft deck on a raised platform that allows them to shoot almost straight down, and it will kill you before you can get close enough to knock it out, or do any damage to their props/steering gear.

[K-61]

Well there you go; I've never tried to tangle with an armed merchant. I always check a target over before I consider whether to make a gunnery attack. If I see guns, I submerge.

[Flaxpants]

Can you specifically target the gun on the merchant and take it out first? Or does it carry on firing?

(newbie question I know)

Last night I did this very thing. Again I thought I'd give the deck gun another go against a large merchant at night. I fired the first shot at him and then saw an orange flash on his deck structures. Great! I thought, hit him first time, but then I saw my shell land short of his boat with a splash, shortly followed by his shell whizzing over my head. So now I knew where the gun was (he only had the one able to fire on me). I fired a couple more shots only, and the second hit around the same area of his boat that the gun was positioned, causing one of those epic explosions with fountains of orange debris. After that he didn't return fire at all. Call it blind luck, but you definately can target those guns and put them out of action as I did. On a side note, one thing that really helped me in these recent gun battles I've been having is to head straight for his boat, in my case at a slow speed. You have to manually adjust your range constantly, but then so does he, and at least in these encounters he didn't seem too good at it- this is where I got the advantage I needed.

[Hans Uberman]

My favorite method for taking deck guns out of the picture (besides torpedoes), is to report in the target and wait for the Stukas to remove them for me. Then I can surface and send a few insults of my own their way! I love those guys! :DL

[Flaxpants]

My favorite method for taking deck guns out of the picture (besides torpedoes), is to report in the target and wait for the Stukas to remove them for me. Then I can surface and send a few insults of my own their way! I love those guys! :DL

I was presuming that reporting contacts via the radio was more of a formality and actually had no effect on the gameplay. So the Luftwaffe turn up do they? Cool.This is news to me. Good news! I take it you need to be near a German base in order for this to happen?

[HW3]

I take it you need to be near a German base in order for this to happen?

Yes you do.:yep: I have had them show up when I take the Northern route out from Kiel, and get to the main shipping channel South of Norway.

[sharkbit]

I've only seen the vaunted Luftwaffe in the Med.

Most of the time, they've been a pain in the butt. Theyve either stolen a kill or caused a ship that I was stalking to start zigging all over the place. :down:

:)

[Herr-Berbunch]

Other than leaving the harbours and giving me the constant 'Aircraft spotted!' messages, I've yet to see them in action. I've only been in the med once though before being lost at sea!

My next career I've decided (up yours BdU!) that I'm heading around Norway instead of the Atlantic so maybe there... :)

[Jimbuna]

If you ever live long enough to be transferred to Bergen in 44, look up to the skies for something circling the port that can't be seen anywhere else :03:

[Gerald]

http://imgur.com/PV7Yq.jpg

Fantastic recreation, air and alarm that sounds in the morning so no alarm clock is not needed