Torpedo effectiveness

[Obersteuermann]

Last night I sneaked into a nice large convoy just west of Ireland. I sneaked past all the escorts, got right amongst the columns and started firing my eels.

Out of 7 fired (all bow tubes plus an extra couple, and the stern tube) I scored five hits - but only one ship sunk. Each of my targets were 8k-10k tons and received two torpedoes: one fused for impact and running at about 1.5m - 2m depth and one magnetic eel set to run about a metre under the ship's keel.

I didn't hang around near the surface to see what hit what (learned that lesson the hard way!) but I did immobilise a Liberty ship. When the escorts had safely passed by I surfaced and had a good look - seemed that the surface runner had holed his engine room just below the waterline.

Later on, while running back to Bergen, I came across a lone tramp steamer and put a magnetic torpedo under his keel. It was a perfect shot, straight under his funnel, but it had no effect at all. If anything, it sped him up!

What am I doing wrong with the magnetic torpedoes? They don't seem to be inflicting any real damage...

[CherryHarbey]

could be a number of things.
1 magnetic pistol were unreliable early in the war, if you have dud torps as possibility in your realism settings it may be that.
2 you could be setting them to run too deep, again early war according the radio messages, the torps had a fault making them run deeper than set, add that to your deliberate clearance of the keel and you may be too deep to trigger.
3 the swell of the sea in high winds could be affecting the depth of your torps causing either them to run too deep (as above) or too shallow and strike the curved bottom of the ship.

for the reasons above I tend to avoid using magnetic pistols unless the ship I'm aiming at is too far off the 90 degree angle on bow to make a impact detonate. hope this helps or at least give you possibilites as to what is causing your problems
cheers,

[BulSoldier]

The radio massages are just for immersion.Torpedoes run at desired depth.However you said that you havent observed any hits, so there is a chance of premature detonation, it is frequent in torps with magnetic pistols in early war.

Also there is the possibility the torpedoes werent enough.I had cases of 4-5k ships surviving 2 torps in diffrent areas and continue going (slower but still).Unless you aim very precise at weak points there is always the chance the ships wont sink.

[K-61]

During a recent early war patrol I fired two torpedoes, under calm conditions at two auxilliary cruisers. Three were steaming in line and thoughts of Otto Weddigen flashed through my head, but they were too far off when I first spotted them to make an attack on all three feasible. I had two electrics and two steamers loaded; the range was too great for the electrics, so I fired one steamer at each of the two trailing cruisers. The first magnetic prematured and the second one passed just aft of the second. In the meantime, I swung my stern and fired another steamer at the last one; it hit but the cruiser kept on sailing. I lost sight of them. The last I saw the trailing cruiser had fallen behind, but she was still too fast for me to catch submerged and there's no way I was going to risk surfacing in daylight for a high speed end-around. She may have sunk beyond my visible range, but I never did get any notification.

C'est le guerre!

[Jimbuna]

If the torpedoes are detonating whilst under the keel and not prematurely....your doing nothing wrong, simply experiencing a large bout of bad luck.

[CherryHarbey]

The radio massages are just for immersion.Torpedoes run at desired depth.

Are all of the radio messages eye candy (or ear candy) ?
I realised most (ships in distress etc) were just for show, but as the issues with the torps actually happened I thought that this was also modelled in the game. is this not the case?
maybe the reason I hate magnetic pistols so much is that I'm aiming too shallow and assuming the torp fault is correcting.... and it isn't.......

[maillemaker]

Unless the radio message corresponds to an actual map contact, it's just for show.

As for the torpedoes, if they are hitting and exploding, then you are just getting back luck, like Jim said.

If they aren't exploding, then they are either duds or you set your depth too low.

Steve

[Obersteuermann]

If the torpedoes are detonating whilst under the keel and not prematurely....your doing nothing wrong, simply experiencing a large bout of bad luck.
I'm thinking bad luck. Just fired a 3-tube spread at USS Nevada (if I could get close enough I'd have USS Brooklyn and HMS Southampton as well...) but forgot to check the depth before loosing them. That'll be 3 impact torpedoes running at 4m against a battleship with a draft of 6m. :shifty:

for the reasons above I tend to avoid using magnetic pistols unless the ship I'm aiming at is too far off the 90 degree angle on bow to make a impact detonate.
OK, so conventional wisdom is to go for impact whenever possible?

[frau kaleun]

I'm thinking bad luck. Just fired a 3-tube spread at USS Nevada (if I could get close enough I'd have USS Brooklyn and HMS Southampton as well...) but forgot to check the depth before loosing them. That'll be 3 impact torpedoes running at 4m against a battleship with a draft of 6m. :shifty:

I don't know anything about the curvature of those hulls but might that have been far enough below the waterline for the eels to slide downward off the keel and not get a "clean" enough impact to detonate? Usually when I set for impact I tend to aim for halfway down from the waterline or higher. :hmmm:


OK, so conventional wisdom is to go for impact whenever possible?

Depends. I haven't enabled "dud torpedoes" in the realism options yet (at least I don't remember doing it). So I usually set for magnetic because I figure all I have to do is get it close enough to the hull to set if off, and I'll set it high enough to make impact on the hull rather than pass below it if I have any doubts about how much the sea state is likely to factor into things.

[divingbluefrog]

Radio messages are eye candy but historically correct, at least the ones I use (RadioLog_Expanded Updated V2 by Danurve) and I've stuck this one on the notepad in the scope view :
Oberkommando der Kriegsmarine|Deutsche Seeverbände||05 June 40||Discontinue all use of magnetic detonation. Impact only setting is to be used for all attacks.||OKM
This order remained active until Dec 42.
At this time, if I've survived the war from 39 (I start all my carriers that year), well, I don't feel the need to test a new and hazardous way of sinking ships...

[K-61]

Just before I shut down last night I made one last attack on a lone freighter on a dark and stormy night. Due to the poor visibility I was travelling submerged at 25 metres and using hydrophones. My hydrophone operator picked up a contact which I tracked for several hours game time. She was moving faster than I could submerged, so I made a number of higher speed surface runs and dives for updated sound bearings. Eventually we spotted her, making 10 knots. The high waves kept drowning out my diesels so I had to spend quite some time catching up to her. I also ordered the engineer to stop charging batteries as I needed to squeeze out every possible knot [I'm in a VIIB.] Rather than risk trying to pull alongside her, have her start turning and make my shot even more difficult, or call in help from the numerous patrol craft that sail in the Hebrides area, I decided to risk a magnetic pistol from dead astern from about 500 metres. We crossed our fingers, set the depth for one metre under the keel and hoped she didn't hop up as it sailed under her. We lucked out and were satisfied to see the detonation. She went under in about ten minutes and we hauled it out of there before diving again to resume our patrol.

If I have to risk a magnetic pistol in rough seas, I try to fire it from as close as possible in order to minimize the chances of a premature detonation. Sometimes a "Hail Mary" is your best option.

[BulSoldier]

Good shot ! I believe magnetic pistol problems tend to be very rare after may '40

[Jimbuna]

OK, so conventional wisdom is to go for impact whenever possible?

I personally prefer to use magnetic because you can usually cause more terminal damage....machinery/magazine/fuel bunkers, not to mention the lifting of AOB restrictions.

[frau kaleun]

I personally prefer to use magnetic because you can usually cause more terminal damage....machinery/magazine/fuel bunkers, not to mention the lifting of AOB restrictions.

:sign_yeah:

[Fader_Berg]

OK, so conventional wisdom is to go for impact whenever possible?

No, not according to me. My first choice is magnetic pistols, since they makes more damage and therefore let me consume less torpedos. But since the chance for a mishap increases when using magnetics, I make some exceptions.
At tankers and ships < ~4k tons there are often no reason to go for magnetic since one impact mostly do the trick.
In very high seas I'll also go for impact on larger ships 'cause the bad weather helps to sink the ships anyways. And the chance for a premature detonation is also almost certain when fireing over 500m. In medium and low (not calm), seas I never fire magnetic over 1.5 - 2k meters. At farther distances in those conditions, I'll go for impact.

[desirableroasted]

OK, so conventional wisdom is to go for impact whenever possible?

No, usually not.

1. Impact torpedoes punch a hole in the hull and explode. Nice, but that hole can take a long time to fill (and if you playing the GWX mod, even longer).
2. It can be fiddly getting into the "perfect" 90 AOB position if the target has passed you.
3. If you aim too low, your torp will glide off the curve of the hull.

On the other hand:

3. Magnetic-pistoled torps give you much more damage... even crack the ship in two.
4. Approaches with magnetics are easier and more varied.... from pretty much around the compass except dead astern, dead ahead, and 80-110 AOB... and even then you can get lucky.
5. Finally, your magnetic torps are always ALSO set to impact....

That said...

Magnetics can explode prematurely in really choppy seas. They can also pass too far under the hull, or hit it, if the ship is heaving. So in rough weather, the impact may be a safer bet (also, a ship hit in the bow in rough weather tends to sink faster).

And, yes, as others have pointed out: the "reliability" issues are for immersion.... y our torps will work as reliably on Sept 1, 1939 as they will any time..

Happy hunting.

[BulSoldier]

I belive the realibility of the magnetic pistol ingame is reals issue.There are no depth keeping problems but the premature detonations is much more common early on.I could be wrong so if anyone knows for sure please correct me.

[Jimbuna]

*Speaking with reference to GWX*

Choosing the realistic torpedoes will mean an accurate cycle of problematic eels....this function is NOT for immersion purposes but an ingame reality.

The player will see a better success rate post 42 onwards.

Setting the eels to magnetic will still allow a detonation if the hull is hit at a favourable AOB.

[K-61]

In my current patrol I have enjoyed great success by using one impact pistol on the bow section of my targets. I usually hit about one fifth to one quarter back from the bow [I don't want to get too close to the bow and miss entirely!] Even on a large cargo all I needed was one torpedo. Heavy seas help greatly to pull the ship down by the bows, but even in a dead calm sea this has worked for me.

[CherryHarbey]

*Speaking with reference to GWX*

Choosing the realistic torpedoes will mean an accurate cycle of problematic eels....this function is NOT for immersion purposes but an ingame reality.

The player will see a better success rate post 42 onwards.

Setting the eels to magnetic will still allow a detonation if the hull is hit at a favourable AOB.

Sorry if I'm being really thick but are you saying that the torpedoes running deeper than set is modelled in GWX (as well as the early detonations of magnetic pistols). If so when in GWX do they start running as set.
Thanks.

[desirableroasted]

Sorry if I'm being really thick but are you saying that the torpedoes running deeper than set is modelled in GWX (as well as the early detonations of magnetic pistols). If so when in GWX do they start running as set.
Thanks.

I second your thickness and raise you.

Jim, does GWX try to model the depth-keeping problem of electric torpedoes, or the unreliability of the magnetic pistols on all types of fish? Or both?

I have to say, except in choppy water over long distance, my magnetics are working just as they should, with the occasional stray.

[Jimbuna]

Sorry if I'm being really thick but are you saying that the torpedoes running deeper than set is modelled in GWX (as well as the early detonations of magnetic pistols). If so when in GWX do they start running as set.
Thanks.

No, GWX does not model or cause any erratic torpedo behaviour.

Choosing the 'dud torpedo' option allows the game (SH3) to apply a rondomisation factor for duds and prematures.

I second your thickness and raise you.

Jim, does GWX try to model the depth-keeping problem of electric torpedoes, or the unreliability of the magnetic pistols on all types of fish? Or both?

I have to say, except in choppy water over long distance, my magnetics are working just as they should, with the occasional stray.

Please see above.

[CherryHarbey]

Thanks for the clarification. I guess my main problem with magnetic pistols was setting them to run too shallow (thinking that they would run deeper:doh:) and so hitting the curved section of the bottom of the hull rather than passing under it.
I'll try again with magnetics set a the correct depth.
Thanks again.

[frau kaleun]

Thanks for the clarification. I guess my main problem with magnetic pistols was setting them to run too shallow (thinking that they would run deeper:doh:) and so hitting the curved section of the bottom of the hull rather than passing under it.

I don't think this would matter with magnetics - only impacts. With an eel set to detonate on impact, the angle of impact is crucial - that's why the AOB is so important, as well as making sure the eel doesn't hit too far down on the curvature of the hull.

My understanding of magnetics is that they only need to come close enough to the hull to be within the electromagnetic field generated by it. If that happens, they go boom (unless the eel is a total dud). Whether they hit the ship or not, and where any such impact takes place, shouldn't matter. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.)

I typically set magnetics to run within 1 meter below the ship's listed draft, but if I have any doubts about getting it close enough under the keel (due to the sea state, for instance) I'll set it for 1-2 meters above the listed draft. I've never had one hit and slide off without detonating regardless of where it makes impact. If it's close enough to make impact, it's inside the E/M field and unless it's a complete dud the detonation is already a done deal IME.

That said, obviously the farther down on the hull you can punch your hole, the more likely you are to cause fatal damage. Blowing out a hole straight upwards from directly underneath the keel is optimal, but if I have any doubts I'd rather get a good hit 1-2 meters above that than nothing at all.

[BulSoldier]

Actually if a magnetic hits a ship (directly ) and doesnt explode it doesnt matter how long it will stay near the ship, it wont detonate.

[Jimbuna]

Thanks for the clarification. I guess my main problem with magnetic pistols was setting them to run too shallow (thinking that they would run deeper:doh:) and so hitting the curved section of the bottom of the hull rather than passing under it.
I'll try again with magnetics set a the correct depth.
Thanks again.

You could also experiment....set a magnetic at 1 or 2 metres :03: