First Patrol, August 1939

[asr]

Hello everyone,

I'm just about to reach my patrol sector on my very first patrol in SH3. I selected the 2nd flotilla if I recall correctly so I start patrolling on august '39.

As the war has not started yet, we are not officially in war with any country so what am I supposed to do exactly? Just patrol and come back? Or am I supposed to (try to) sink warships ?

Sorry if this has been asked already, can't find the answer.

[HW3]

No sinking till the war starts, so just hang around and conserve fuel till the war does start then have fun.

[Flaxpants]

Pretty much yes. If you sink a neutral you will be penalised for it.
Your crew are getting valuable experience though and when the war kicks off you'll be in better shape.

[asr]

Pretty much yes. If you sink a neutral you will be penalised for it.
Your crew are getting valuable experience though and when the war kicks off you'll be in better shape.

No sinking till the war starts, so just hang around and conserve fuel till the war does start then have fun.

Thanks

Also, this forum showing posts in reverse order is driving me crazy.

[Kimmers]

Thanks

Also, this forum showing posts in reverse order is driving me crazy.

theres an option to change the order somewhere around here :hmmm:

[Herr-Berbunch]

User CP, Edit Options, Edit Thread Options... :03:

[asr]

User CP, Edit Options, Edit Thread Options... :03:

How is it possible, I checked like a hundred times :damn:
Now it works thanks :yeah:

[Herr-Berbunch]

How is it possible, I checked like a hundred times :damn:
Now it works thanks :yeah:

In the same way I always check I've flooded my tubes (oo-er missus!) before firing, and then wait and watch them miss by a couple of seconds! :wah:

[asr]

Now I have another question.

I'm supposed to patrol the area for 24 hours, thats part of my mission objectives, but just as I arribed to the area, I received a message:

"To: U-46(me) All U-Boats in konigsberg (my port) - You are ordered to return to konigsberg. Upon docking transfer to either the 1st or 2nd flotilla. Good Hunting"

So am I supposed to return inmediately or shall I finish my objectives first ?

[Jimbuna]

Now I have another question.

I'm supposed to patrol the area for 24 hours, thats part of my mission objectives, but just as I arribed to the area, I received a message:

"To: U-46(me) All U-Boats in konigsberg (my port) - You are ordered to return to konigsberg. Upon docking transfer to either the 1st or 2nd flotilla. Good Hunting"

So am I supposed to return inmediately or shall I finish my objectives first ?

Return to port immediately via 'teleport' (Esc) and then apply for a transfer to 1st or 2nd Flotilla.

Your next patrol should commence shortly before the outbreak of hostilities (I use SH3 Commander and have it set to 21 days in port between patrols) which means I leave port on Aug 25th allowing me time to sail to my intended patrol gris....which is what happened in RL.

http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/welcome.gif

[Herr-Berbunch]

....which is what happened in RL.


I don't remember Herbert Werner mentioning the Escape button? :haha:

[Sailor Steve]

I'm just about to reach my patrol sector on my very first patrol in SH3. I selected the 2nd flotilla if I recall correctly so I start patrolling on august '39.

As the war has not started yet, we are not officially in war with any country so what am I supposed to do exactly? Just patrol and come back? Or am I supposed to (try to) sink warships ?
I completely ignore the 7th Flotilla instructions. I also run simultaneous careers, one out of each available commmand.

2nd Flotilla - Wilhelmshaven: I do a 'false patrol' on August 1 - sail out into the harbor, turn around and dock again. Then I use SH3 Commander to set my crew the way I want, and set 'Days In Base' to 18. This is because on August 19th fourteed u-boats were sent out to the North Atlantic to wait. Wait for what, they weren't told right away.

1st Flotilla - Type II, Kiel: I set my start date for September 1st, do a false patrol, and then set 'Days In Base' to Random.

7th Flotilla: Same thing. That way I'm starting from Kiel, not Konigsberg, and being sent to the Atlantic.

[Jimbuna]

I don't remember Herbert Werner mentioning the Escape button? :haha:

LOL :DL

[K-61]

Herbert Werner? Are there TWO of us??!! :haha:

[Arctic wolf]

One question for the veteran kaleuns, usually how many days did the uboats spend in base between patrols? I want my career to be as realistic as possible so I was wondering what value should I set in SH3 Commander for the number of days spent at base between patrols..:hmmm:

Do you guys leave it at random or what?

[K-61]

I leave it at random. Shore time was typically two to three weeks, allowing time for both boat and crew to be overhauled. It could take longer if major upgrades were installed; as well, sabotage or "work slow" was enacted by French shipyard workers, but I'm not quite sure how much access non-German workers had to U-boats.

[Jimbuna]

One question for the veteran kaleuns, usually how many days did the uboats spend in base between patrols? I want my career to be as realistic as possible so I was wondering what value should I set in SH3 Commander for the number of days spent at base between patrols..:hmmm:

Do you guys leave it at random or what?

For a definitive amount of detail go to uboat.net and go to the U-boat finder section at the bottom left.

I chose 586 and picked the obvious WWII boat which brings up this page:

http://uboat.net/boats/u586.htm

Now halfway down on the right hand side choose the view war patrols link and you will see all the info on time at sea and in port etc.

http://uboat.net/boats/patrols/u586.html

[K-61]

That's a very interesting read, Jimbuna. Sometimes she was in port for a handful of days, other times she was in port for over a month. I'd imagine that some of that was due to damage or crew sent for training. There seems to be a correlation between duration of patrol and time of shore leave, which seems logical. One of her patrols was only 2 days! Hard to imagine BdU would give the crew two weeks leave after a patrol of only two days.

[JScones]

For the most accurate figure, select the random days in port option, unless you are in SE Asia (10 Flotilla), in which case set it to 55 days.

The random option is based on actual data, thus it varies year-by-year. I haven't looked at the code for a while, but I'm sure that SH3Cmdr also takes some other factors into consideration as well (patrol length, u-boat type, that kinda stuff).

Sometimes, however, you will just have to expect the unexpected. ;)

[K-61]

JScones, thank you for your great work. I heavily rely upon JSGME and SH3 Commander to add life to my game.

[Jimbuna]

If you go into the patrol logs of some boats you will find they had extensive stays in port due to battle damage and or refits.

[Arctic wolf]

For a definitive amount of detail go to uboat.net and go to the U-boat finder section at the bottom left.

I chose 586 and picked the obvious WWII boat which brings up this page:

http://uboat.net/boats/u586.htm

Now halfway down on the right hand side choose the view war patrols link and you will see all the info on time at sea and in port etc.

http://uboat.net/boats/patrols/u586.html

Great links Jimbuna. The amount of information here will surely keep me busy the next couple of days. Thanks mate! :salute:

For the most accurate figure, select the random days in port option, unless you are in SE Asia (10 Flotilla), in which case set it to 55 days.

The random option is based on actual data, thus it varies year-by-year. I haven't looked at the code for a while, but I'm sure that SH3Cmdr also takes some other factors into consideration as well (patrol length, u-boat type, that kinda stuff).

Sometimes, however, you will just have to expect the unexpected. ;)

It is based on actual data?! Wow Commander never seizes to amaze me. I would like to take this opportunity to express my gratitude to JScones for giving us this Amazing piece of work. :yeah: The level of flexibility and power it gives us players is unimaginable. For me SH3 would just feel incomplete without Commander.

You have given us a masterpiece and I can't thank you enough for this. :salute:

I thought during the end of the war the uboats were plagued by severe sabotage issue by the French partisans? Surely that had an effect on shore times..

[Jimbuna]

:salute:

I thought during the end of the war the uboats were plagued by severe sabotage issue by the French partisans? Surely that had an effect on shore times..


(xiii) Sabotage to U-Boats Two chief petty officers stated that a sack filled with either sand or flour was discovered in one of "U 111's" diving tanks in Lorient at the end of the first cruise. On the second cruise a long copper bolt was found in the hydroplane machinery, and it was suspected that it had been maliciously placed there. The first of these two prisoners also alleged that 80 men of the naval guards in Lorient had disappeared during 1941. The second added that several U-Boats had had to change their fuel pumps as they had been found to be mysteriously blocked by sand.


There were many ways to sabotage a boat, two popular methods were to put dead rats in the fresh water tanks and dip rope in oil to look like welded seams.

[JScones]

It is based on actual data?! Wow Commander never seizes to amaze me. I would like to take this opportunity to express my gratitude to JScones for giving us this Amazing piece of work. :yeah: The level of flexibility and power it gives us players is unimaginable. For me SH3 would just feel incomplete without Commander.

You have given us a masterpiece and I can't thank you enough for this. :salute:
Thank you.


One of the main aims of SH3Cmdr is to provide an historically-based framework around SH3. To do this, well, it has to be based on fact! Beery and I spent hours and hours researching each feature prior to me adding it. For example:

Simulate a realistic career length - based on the careers of the top Commanders (over 50,000GRT sunk IIRC) listed at uboat.net
Simulate realistic crew transfers - based on various sources used to build a picture of what happened between patrols
Use historic U-boat availability dates - based primarily on Lawrence Paterson's books
Randomise number of days spent in base - based on patrol data listed at uboat.net
Use real ship names in patrol logs - this is all Sailor Steve's handiwork, but all based on actual ship names matched to ship class
Set wave height - A "fix" to simulate wave height variations by season. Based on data obtained here.
Model effects - this is all Hemisent's handiwork, tweaked to reflect accounts described in both reference books and books like Iron Coffins
Randomise ship tonnage - this is primarily Observer's handiwork, again, based on actual data
Randomise U-boat crush depth - an idea taken from TimeTraveller, but again, added not merely to take the certainty out of the game but to reflect the changing conditions in steel quality and water pressure, which would impact crush depth at any given time and place
The random crew names that SH3Cmdr generates are based on the names of almost every serving U-boat crewman (www.ubootwaffe.net (http://www.ubootwaffe.net) gave me permission to use their database); 1.7+ billion crew name combinations! Likewise the 1375+ birthplaces, thus why there's entries such as Sydney, Australia.
It would be an understatement to say that a lot of research has gone into SH3Cmdr. Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on how you look at it), SH3Cmdr makes it all transparent to the user by hiding it all behind a fairly straight forward and intuitive interface.

[JScones]

I thought during the end of the war the uboats were plagued by severe sabotage issue by the French partisans? Surely that had an effect on shore times..
It does, at least in SH3Cmdr. ;)

When researching this feature, we were amazed by some of the ways U-boats were sabotaged. For example, here's what sabotage allegedly occurred on U-505 during just ONE patrol:
-leaky starboard propeller shaft caused by faulty shaft seal (reduced max depth to 40m)
-FuMB Metox electrical short circuit
-GHG underwater listening device out of action
-radio direction finder antenna could not be deployed
-relief valve seals faulty
-emergency valve seals faulty
-diving tank seals faulty
-battery cell seals faulty
-fuel bunker seals faulty causing oil slick which had pinpointed their position from when they left port to when they returned.

The faulty seals were caused by someone pouring battery acid on them.

And this patrol was by no means an exceptional example either, I might add.

Other examples of sabotage (some effected on U-505 over the next three patrols and others experienced by other boats):
-sugar in the lube oils
-dead dog in the water tank
-botulism
-drilled pencil hole in fuel bunkers (this little hole plus some other sabotage caused U-505 to return to port at least 4 patrols in a row as it wasn't picked up by the workers)
-poor welding causing stress cracks
etc etc

On this I think Hemisent has modelled the effects of both malfunctions and sabotage (when enabled) pretty much spot on considering the limitations of SH3. :up:

[Arctic wolf]

:o:o You guys put in that amount of research into this software - and I'm assuming what you have said is only the tip of the iceberg? Damn that's an awful lot of work and just looking at the plain interface no one would have a clue so many hours of endless research has gone into this thing. You have made everything look so simple and effective. Brilliant. Just brilliant. I would take you out for beer and every user of SH3Cmdr owes you a beer. :salute: And that's just being humble.

I wonder how they could cause so much damage to the uboats for I had this impression that the uboats pens were highly secure and restricted areas? I remember playing this game once - Call of Duty perhaps - where I had to infiltrate a uboat base and steal an enigma machine from a uboat. The huge number of guards really didn't make the mission any easier. If only I knew back then that someday I would be commanding this very boat I am here to steal from..:smug:

[Sailor Steve]

One of my more entertaing experiences with Commander involved a Type II u-boat. I had a dry patrol - no enemy seen, no torpedoes fired. When I set out on my next patrol I found I had been in port a whopping five days! Now that makes perfect sense, seeing that I didn't have to replace very much, but Commander's function is random, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't take replacements into account, which means that it was purely coincidental. Which is always cool.

I wonder how they could cause so much damage to the uboats for I had this impression that the uboats pens were highly secure and restricted areas?
But they were in France. How many of the dockworkers were imported Germans and how many were French? I don't know, but that's how I think it happened.

I always have 'Malfunctions' activated, but only turn on 'Sabotage' when I'm based in a foreign port.

[asr]

More questions!

Now I'm in war, and I find myself having to patrol a quadrant south of ireland.

I try to reach the quadrant by crossing the strait of dover but that has proven the hell of a quest. I'm trying by the third time as I get quickly assaulted by warships, torpedo rafts and the like.

Shall I reach the area though "der kanal" or should I go all the way around the british isles ?

Also, I think the last time I got sunk, most of the damage I got was from hitting ground between dover and calais (went to ~40m). How can I know the approximate depth ? I know the DUK option but that emits an audible ping that I don't think its too wise to use when hunted by warships am I wrong?

[BulSoldier]

Enemy cant detect you pinging the bottom of the sea, atleast ingame. If you insist on crossing the channel i suggest running at the surface at night at 1/3 , and go slow at day submerged.
It is dangerous though and that is why if you can spend some time and fuel on going around britain , I will suggest doing so.

[asr]

Enemy cant detect you pinging the bottom of the sea, atleast ingame. If you insist on crossing the channel i suggest running at the surface at night at 1/3 , and go slow at day submerged.
It is dangerous though and that is why if you can spend some time and fuel on going around britain , I will suggest doing so.

Thanks!

Of course I don't insist at all, I just though that I was supposed to do so. BTW I'm about to cross the dover-calais line right now, so I will try this last time

[Herr-Berbunch]

Thanks!

Of course I don't insist at all, I just though that I was supposed to do so. BTW I'm about to cross the dover-calais line right now, so I will try this last time

My advice would be to go a very long way round, and keep your eyes/ears peeled all the way, 'der kanal' is not U-boat friendly once the war is underway.

Good hunting to be had as you pass the area approaching Ireland, single merchants and convoys (avoid the task forces though, they can hurt :D).

[frau kaleun]

You know, when it comes to questions like these, I always ask myself... WWJD?*

Oh, that's right:

STAY OUT OF THE CHANNEL!!!


*What Would Jimbuna Do?

[Herr-Berbunch]

You know, when it comes to questions like these, I always ask myself... WWJD?*

Oh, that's right:

STAY OUT OF THE CHANNEL!!!


*What Would Jimbuna Do?

But then that also conflicts with BE MORE AGGRESSIVE [insert wolf gif here] and SINK 'EM ALL... :O:

[asr]

Somewhat I managed to hit a 4700 ton merchant just between calais and dover, emerged in a clear morning an finished it with my deck gun. Then I heard a destructor blazing like crazy at me but managed to go deep and avoided it while exiting the channel and planing a route around the isles.

Damn bateries they don't last much when you need them!

[BulSoldier]

They havent had duracel back then, witch endure ten times longer ! LOL :)

[frau kaleun]

I heard Onkel Karl tried to recruit this guy for the ubootwaffe but he just wasn't interested.

http://carolinepond.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/energizer-bunny.jpg

[desirableroasted]

More questions!

Now I'm in war, and I find myself having to patrol a quadrant south of ireland.

Shall I reach the area though "der kanal" or should I go all the way around the british isles ?



Man, I don't even look at der Kanal. The whole advantage of being in a U-boat is being able to operate in three dimensions when being attacked. Being in the channel pretty much wipes that out.

At 8 knts, you have enough fuel to circle Britain 3 or 4 times, so take the Northern route. There's a fair bit of shipping up there, and down the west coast of Ireland, so you should be able to bag a few before you even make station.

And the entrance to the Celtic Sea is well known tanker territory... good luck; it's not a bad assignment!

[Gerald]

there's better alternatives, clearly :yep:

[Jimbuna]

You know, when it comes to questions like these, I always ask myself... WWJD?*

Oh, that's right:

STAY OUT OF THE CHANNEL!!!


*What Would Jimbuna Do?

But then that also conflicts with BE MORE AGGRESSIVE [insert wolf gif here] and SINK 'EM ALL... :O:

You treacherous dogs!!

Who broke the Buna TOP SECRET Enigma code? http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pissedoff.gif

http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/badwerewolf.gif

[frau kaleun]

You treacherous dogs!!

Who broke the Buna TOP SECRET Enigma code? http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pissedoff.gif

http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/badwerewolf.gif

You really don't remember? You traded us the codebooks for three beers and a curry take-away.

[Jimbuna]

You really don't remember? You traded us the codebooks for three beers and a curry take-away.

I did? Oh, err.....okay then http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2391/bubblegum21.gif

[Herr-Berbunch]

You treacherous dogs!!

Who broke the Buna TOP SECRET Enigma code? http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pissedoff.gif

http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/badwerewolf.gif

Quite easy, just your mother's maiden name and your first pet...

...all I need now is your bank account and your winning Angolan lottery fund will be all yours, oh, I'll need that £1000 fee to transfer it first :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Quite easy, just your mother's maiden name and your first pet...

...all I need now is your bank account and your winning Angolan lottery fund will be all yours, oh, I'll need that £1000 fee to transfer it first :hmmm:

The cheques in the post http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/whistle.gif