What would you've done?

[Herr-Berbunch]

This video is from the helmet cam of a motorbike rider who meets a state trooper, the last 30 seconds is all you need to view. The trooper (not in uniform or in a marked car) jumps out, pulls his gun and orders they guy off the bike several times before even stating he is State Police.

And the guy on the bike is in trouble, not the trooper, all because it's caught on camera! :nope:

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/state-trooper-youtube-video-law,news-7690.html

[Sailor Steve]

WIRETAPPING??!! I thought wiretapping required premeditation and intent. Unless they can prove he used a helmet cam to trick a cop - out of uniform and in an unmarked car) into pulling a gun on him I doubt they have a charge.

Here in Utah if he had shot the cop he probably would have gotten off with self defense. A random stranger pulls a gun on you and orders you to do what he says, and he's not in uniform? Even an unmarked car is required to be displaying flashing lights when involved in an arrest.

[TLAM Strike]

I know a guy who grew up in Cali. When he was young he got pulled over for speeding. The ticket got thrown out of court because the CHP officer was not wearing his cover and thus "Out of Uniform". :03:

I was watching COPS with him once and down in Texas I think some guy was not letting the cops in to his apartment and I commented that I would not either- they were not wearing their hats and had no badges! All they were wearing were shirts with police written on the sleeve and guns. I guess thats common in some places but here in NY they have badges or if they are State Troopers a really complicated quasi-military uniform.

[Oberon]

One overzealous plain clothes officer there. However, the chap was speeding, can't deny that, but the way the arrest took place and the charges of wiretapping are completely screwy. :nope:

[SteamWake]

Wouldent this recording not be admissable in court?

Perhaps the cop over reacted a bit but I dident see where he did anything really wrong. You never know when your a cop the guy might have drugged up and violent. He was acting erratically.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Wouldent this recording not be admissable in court?

Perhaps the cop over reacted a bit but I dident see where he did anything really wrong. You never know when your a cop the guy might have drugged up and violent. He was acting erratically.

Yeah, but the point is that some guy jumps out of his car and comes at you pointing a gun shouting 'get off the bike, get off the bike!', who's to say he's not some drugged up, violent thief?

[ETR3(SS)]

UPDATE:Maryland Attorney General has released an opinion (http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/08/06/maryland-attorney-general-sides-with-anthony-graber/) that the wiretapping law does not apply, as police encounters are not private conversations. It was characterized: “seems an unlikely conclusion … particularly when they occur in a public place and involve the exercise of police powers.” Spot on by the Maryland AG. Many officer's vehicles have dash mounted cameras and the cop wears a mic on his uniform. This is no different. If you'll notice, there was a marked vehicle and a uniformed trooper that was right behind our motorcyclist. So why did our gung-ho unmarked, out of uniform officer take it to that extreme? Also why the gun? There was absolutely no reason for the "trooper" to draw his weapon. I think he needs to go back to school and re-learn about the rules of deadly force.:nope:

Edit: About our motorcyclist, he was reckless in his motorcycle riding. Wheelies and doing 127mph gets people killed. Hell just riding a motorcycle can get you killed.

[Sammi79]

It never ceases to amaze me when people either video or photograph themselves breaking laws :doh: though I don't see how that should be a crime in itself. Here in Plymouth I am videoed without my permission or any warning on almost every street - this must be the same throughout many American cities also. I have nothing to hide so I don't worry so much about it. The policeman in this video cannot be following correct protocol though, like he only remembers to say 'state trooper' as an afterthought possibly thinking to himself 'oh yeah, I'm not in uniform, that fella probably thinks I'm a mugger lol'.

I think people should be allowed to record their dealings with the police because it would help prevent the otherwise easy abuse of their powers, you know, 2 policemen stand up in court and say it was like that (lying) against the word of 1 citizen saying it wasn't (truth) obviously the judge takes the cops word over the citizens. Wouldn't it be great if the defence lawyer could say 'In that case your honour, we must now submit this audio/video recording which clearly shows that my client is telling the truth and cops A&B are lying...'

I think maybe we need more police to police the police that police the police...

[August]

It's not the video i'll bet but rather the sound recording that caused the stink. Here in Massachusetts you can videotape in just about any situation but you can't legally record a conversation without all kinds of notifications and reminders.

[nikimcbee]

Sounds like a fishing expedition for the DA.:shifty: Here, just pay the fine and move along.

[nikimcbee]

Spot on by the Maryland AG. Many officer's vehicles have dash mounted cameras and the cop wears a mic on his uniform. This is no different. If you'll notice, there was a marked vehicle and a uniformed trooper that was right behind our motorcyclist. So why did our gung-ho unmarked, out of uniform officer take it to that extreme? Also why the gun? There was absolutely no reason for the "trooper" to draw his weapon. I think he needs to go back to school and re-learn about the rules of deadly force.:nope:

Edit: About our motorcyclist, he was reckless in his motorcycle riding. Wheelies and doing 127mph gets people killed. Hell just riding a motorcycle can get you killed.

That is interesting to know.

[AVGWarhawk]

Video or not...this clown on the bike needs to loose his bike and his license. I have seen these jerks doing wheelies on the beltway around Baltimore. They take chances between cars and trucks. They cut people off. The pass in between cars. It is a damn problem. Do not think for a minute he is only going to hurt himself. He has the potenial to cause a major accident and injury/death to others. As far as the video...glad he took it...it will look great in court.

As far as the trooper...I interviewed with the troopers way back when. A MD state trooper is always on duty. Always. He had every right to do what he did and he can do it in any part of MD. He is after all...a Maryland State Trooper....not Baltimore county trooper or Baltimore city trooper. I can not account for his pulling the gun. I do not know what the cause, whether pumped up over the pursuit or protocal for this type of stop, but it is what it is.


Also, there was a state trooper in a marked car on the scene at about a split second after he stopped and the trooper in his gray car made his stop. Looks cut and dry to me.....

[The Third Man]

Do the police have a reasonable expectation of privacy when in the performance of their duty? I sure hope not. If citizens cannot expect that right when outside their homes, how can the police expect it when performing their duty in public, outside the police station?

[AVGWarhawk]

Do the police have a reasonable expectation of privacy when in the performance of their duty? I sure hope not. If citizens cannot expect that right when outside their homes, how can the police expect it when performing their duty in public, outside the police station?

There should be no right to privacy for the police. Things happen in public.

[razark]

Do the police have a reasonable expectation of privacy when in the performance of their duty? I sure hope not. If citizens cannot expect that right when outside their homes, how can the police expect it when performing their duty in public, outside the police station?
Furthermore, the police are in the employment of the public. Doesn't the public have the right to know what they are doing? (Within reason. A traffic stop like this would be in public, but undercover work would obviously not be)

[Ducimus]

IMO the only thing that cop did wrong, was not having his badge visible while making the stop. If he was following the motorcyclist, and had made the decision to stop the guy on the bike, then he should have moved his badge/photo identification to a visible location on his person. Even if he had to hold it in his left hand as he drew his weapon with his right. (however, they're probably trained to use both hands when handling their sidearm for the best possible control of it, Only time ive ever seen a cop on video hold a sidearm with one hand was when he was putting it away)

As for the gun, he brandished the weapon, and clearly had it ready in case he needed it, (having it out was probably a matter of procedure given how fast the motorcyclist was travelling, that kind of speeding is a serious offense) but at no time did he point it at the guy on the motorcycle.

edit: Ill also note that once the stop was made, and the motorcyclist compliant, he holstered the weapon as it was no longer needed.

[Platapus]

But don't the police routinely video tape us during "interactions"? What about this "requirement" for all parties to consent in that case?

Ya can't have it both ways. I don't think this would pass muster in a court. There is nothing wrong with someone videotaping something in a public area. Now how they use that video tape, may be covered by different laws, but not the actual video taping.

Of course, I need to stop using that term "video taping" as that really dates myself. :03:

[Wolfehunter]

What I see in the video is an off duty cop doing something wrong and the biker also doing something wrong. Both need to be punished accordingly. :salute:

[SteamWake]

On a somewhat related note they just installed these cameras at selected intersections here.

These cameras can somehow detect when a car is running a red light or turning at a red light without a full stop. A picture of the liscence plate is taken and the vehicle is tickited. Evidently it is irregardless of whom is driving the car.

It was a very contriversial move but it went in.

[Platapus]

127 MPH on a Maryland road? Is he nuts? One pothole at that speed and someones gonna get a hurtin.

[Ducimus]

But don't the police routinely video tape us during "interactions"? What about this "requirement" for all parties to consent in that case?

Ya can't have it both ways. I don't think this would pass muster in a court. There is nothing wrong with someone videotaping something in a public area. Now how they use that video tape, may be covered by different laws, but not the actual video taping.
:

Well, i do think the law against video taping cops is heavy handed, but on the other hand, there are far too many self important dillweeds who hate being told what to do and take video's that are out of context of what really happened.

The old saying, "The camera doesn't lie" is patently false in this day and age. What's kinda scary is that People believe videos and pictures without any hesitation or doubt as irrefutable truth, and yet all of it can be doctored and edited to portray just about anything, by anyone with the software and motivation.

[Ducimus]

On a related subject:

Proposed Law Would Put Video Cameras In Cars (http://cbs13.com/local/video.cameras.cars.2.1849626.html)

I doubt it'll pass, but it figures california would try it first.

[Capt. Morgan]

Well, i do think the law against video taping cops is heavy handed, but on the other hand, there are far too many self important dillweeds who hate being told what to do and take video's that are out of context of what really happened. .

Agreed, but I feel there's much more of a worry from the cops than from the di**weeds.

... What's kinda scary is that People believe videos and pictures without any hesitation or doubt as irrefutable truth ...

Funny. Before everybody and their dog carried a movie camera in their pocket, video evidence was considered the next best thing to a full confession in court.

Now that any slob can film the cops in action, video evidence has begun to be questioned, and filming cops has even been made illegal in such places as North Korea and the UK.

[Ducimus]

Funny. Before everybody and their dog carried a movie camera in their pocket, video evidence was considered the next best thing to a full confession in court.

Now that any slob can film the cops in action, video evidence has begun to be questioned,

Gee, i wonder why. (http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=freddiew2&annotation_id=annotation_795564&feature=iv)

[GoldenRivet]

I dont see that the officer over reacted at all.

He exited his vehicle, ordered the man off the motorcycle and within about 3 to 5 seconds identified himself as a state police officer.

sorry [expletive Deleted] stupid [expletive Deleted]'s like this motorcycle rider kill their [expletive Deleted] selves and murder or seriously injure innocent people every day by doing these impromptu stunt shows on public [expletive Deleted] highways all the time. My father was an experienced rider and instructed other riders in parade routines... therefore i have ZERO respect for those who take these machines out and purposefully endanger themselves and others (same goes for those in vehicles)

if you ask me he should have his [expletive Deleted] locked up, his bike remanded to state custody and sold at auction, and his his driver's license suspended for a period of 18 months minimum.

dumb [expletive Deleted]

[Platapus]

Also, at the very end of the video, is there not a marked police car right behind the motorcycle with an officer/trooper standing by?

[The Third Man]

Wasn't this a google thing? Who gives a rat's behind?

Us new guys are tired of being treated poorly so I'm giving it back.

[Ducimus]

Also, at the very end of the video, is there not a marked police car right behind the motorcycle with an officer/trooper standing by?

I don't recall of seeing one, but then, the video was abruptly stopped. I doubt it really ended where it did.. I think there's more footage, but its being stopped there, intentionally because what transpired after that point would probably work against the guys favor. Better to just show the cops jacking him up and end it there.

[GoldenRivet]

simple fact of the matter is that these D-Bags are all over the road doing all kinds of stupid stuff all the time, and if i were within my right to hop out of my car with a firearm it would happen two or three times a week. :nope:

Im sure the cops get tired of scooping these biker kids off the road with little spoons.

[Platapus]

I have to admit that after seeing that video, my sympathy for the rider went down a lot. He was not driving in a responsible way, and surely gives legitimate riders a bad name.

[Ducimus]

I don't have any problem with them doing the world a favor by trying to remove themselves from the gene pool. Trouble is, they could take someone else out with them.

[Platapus]

I am not a motorcycle rider, but I can just imagine hitting a pothole or a roadkill, or just some gravel at 127 mph can't be good. At those speeds the rider would not have the time to observe the hazard and maneuver/stop to avoid it.

I am just tooo chicken to drive that fast on roads that have not been cleared. :nope:

When I was doing autorally, about a million years ago, we all walked the course and made sure the track was clear and clean. It was good training for the "FOD walks" when I was on the flight line. :yeah:

[TLAM Strike]

127 MPH on a Maryland road? Is he nuts? One pothole at that speed and someones gonna get a hurtin. There is a reason why people in the Emergency Services profession tend to call Motorcycle riders "Organ Donors". :03:

[Sailor Steve]

@ GR, Ducimus and Platapus: You are absolutely correct. The guy was riding recklessly and could have killed himself and possibly somebody else. He deserves what punishment he gets, as I did when I got caught riding down Parley's Canyon back in 1987 (ref my song 'Menace To Society'). On the other hand he admitted as much, and took his lumps.

And maybe the video is edited. There's no way to know, short of someone coming up with a longer version.

But the point here is neither of those. The point is that he's being charged with a felony for putting the video on YouTube. Is this right or wrong? Is the law he's being charged under right or wrong. If you were judge or jury, how would you decide?

Call him stupid all you like (and I think he is too, and he would probably agree, but I can tell you firsthand it doesn't feel that way at the time), but this isn't about his stupidity, or even whether the cop overreacted (I think he did, but no one was hurt by it and I agree we don't have all the evidence there either), but whether the crime he's being charged with now is even a crime, or should be.

That's my opinion anyway.

[HunterICX]

I dont see that the officer over reacted at all.

He exited his vehicle, ordered the man off the motorcycle and within about 3 to 5 seconds identified himself as a state police officer.

Right, now the rider could have decided in less then a second to blast off with his bike thinking the guy might be a robber.

heck I would if I see someone grab the holster without that I could see he is a police officer

a simple matter of batch first before you pull a gun on someone if your a police officer out of uniform.

here in Spain they always show their badge + papers before they get to bussiness if they're out of uniform.

not that I defend that idiot on his bike, I agree he should be stripped from his license and his bike should be reduced to the size of a rubik's cube.

HunterICX

[GoldenRivet]

Right, now the rider could have decided in less then a second to blast off with his bike thinking the guy might be a robber.

heck I would if I see someone grab the holster without that I could see he is a police officer

a simple matter of batch first before you pull a gun on someone if your a police officer out of uniform.

here in Spain they always show their badge + papers before they get to bussiness if they're out of uniform.

not that I defend that idiot on his bike, I agree he should be stripped from his license and his bike should be reduced to the size of a rubik's cube.

HunterICX

True,

except for the fact that there was a uniformed state police officer in a marked patrol car right behind the plain clothes officer.

look closely, he is behind the bike the whole time.

pause it right at 3:37

[Dowly]

True,

except for the fact that there was a uniformed state police officer in a marked patrol car right behind the plain clothes officer.

look closely, he is behind the bike the whole time.

pause it right at 3:37

Did the biker see the uniformed officer? And if so, how could he be 100% sure the plain clothed officer was an police, he could've thought him to be some wacko on the run from the uniformed officer and wanting to get a new ride from the biker. :hmmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

What I see in the video is an off duty cop doing something wrong and the biker also doing something wrong. Both need to be punished accordingly. :salute:


State Troopers in MD are always on duty. He did nothing wrong. He was ok in making this stop.

[AVGWarhawk]

Also, at the very end of the video, is there not a marked police car right behind the motorcycle with an officer/trooper standing by?


Yes, the car was there in under a second. It it obvious that the marked car was also in pursuit at the same time. The biker was looking over his shoulder on the off ramp. He was aware there was a marked car in pursuit. The officer was not in the wrong...the biker was wrong for speeding and wrecklessness. Driving is a privilege...not a right. He should be looking for a bus pass IMO. As far as the camera....who cares. It will make great evidence in court. Case closed.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

If the police have dashcams with mics recording everything, why can't citizens?

After all, if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide? Riiiiiight?? :har:

[Sailor Steve]

As far as the camera....who cares. It will make great evidence in court. Case closed.
What part of "he admitted to speeding and took the ticket and paid the fine" are you all missing? The case is closed because of that fact, if nothing else. Has the cop been charged with misconduct?

[GoldenRivet]

I read an interesting article in the recent playboy issue about this issue of camera's and attempting to use them against police.

In this scenario, i would take notice of one major thing as a judge...

the plain clothed officer NEVER once aimed his firearm at the biker.

This is another scenario where some moron was out running the roads breaking the law and putting countless lives in danger - and the cops are the bad guys for attempting to do something about it??? give me a break.

they didnt beat him up

they didnt pull a transit cop style execution on him

im sure if a kid had been killed by this moron a number of you would change your tune.

personally i think the cop should have dropped the hammer on this turd right there in front of God and everybody.

the public roadways are not your private racetrack where you can senselessly put others in danger.

this dirt bag has seen "the fast and the furious" one too many times :nope: and IMHO his behavior should be treated as DUI

driving under the influence of mind altering substances... is an adrenaline-junky driving under the influence if he is getting his high by driving 130+ mph on a crowded freeway?

Yes... at least i think so.

[Sailor Steve]

IIn this scenario, i would take notice of one major thing as a judge...

the plain clothed officer NEVER once aimed his firearm at the biker.
Of course there has been discussion concerning whether the cop acted appropriately, and you do a good job of defending him. But what does any of the rest of your rant against the biker have to do with the actual question here? He already admitted he was wrong, and there are no legal charges against the cop.

The biker is being charged with a major felony for posting the video. Anything to say about that? Or just more "Idiots like this are idiots"? We already know that I'm an idiot - like him I admitted it myself.

[ETR3(SS)]

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh125/Pohaku66/deadhorsesm.jpghttp://media.photobucket.com/image/dead%20horse/Pohaku66/deadhorsesm.jpg?o=2

We get it. The rider is dumb. And now for what some seemed to miss. http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/08/06/maryland-attorney-general-sides-with-anthony-graber/

[AVGWarhawk]

What part of "he admitted to speeding and took the ticket and paid the fine" are you all missing? The case is closed because of that fact, if nothing else. Has the cop been charged with misconduct?


I have said it twice Steve...Troopers in the state of MD are on duty all the time. The cop was doing his job even if he was off duty hours. Like I stated before in this thread. I interviewed with the troopers for MD. I was told point blank that you are on duty all the time and you carry your service weapon all the time. It does not matter what part of MD you are in....you act as a state trooper if a crime has occurred. What part are you missing? The Trooper did his job. The case is closed because of that fact. The argument is over the camera on the helmet or anywhere for that matter being used during a traffic stop or any type of crime. IMO I think it is ok. I do not see how it can be construed as a felony to post on U-tube.

[GoldenRivet]

The biker is being charged with a major felony for posting the video.

This is a major concern in our present day society now that every Tom, Dick and Harry holds a camera in the face of every other Tom, Dick and Harry any time things go south in the slightest.

The wrong doings, or perceived wrong doings of an individual are bound to show up on the 6:00 news and any one of 100 web sites like youtube or collegehumor etc. until every single person with an internet connection can be made aware of the actions of some jack wagon

One could argue that something needs to be done as far as legislative action that more closely examines the admissibility of certain filmed evidence - and when and where and under which circumstances it is appropriate or innapropriate to engage in filming certain activity.

I know the man was wrong to speed and showboat in the ways that he had done

I know the biker was grossly negligent and irresponsible in his act which can so easily be described as "idiotic"

I also know that he has confessed to his wrongs, been found guilty of them, and paid for them...

... I am not so much attempting to pass official judgment on the man nor am i debating the ins and outs of this particular legal case.

I AM however attempting to participate in the discussion at hand, which inevitably means i will interject my opinion here and there.

My official opinion is that this biker was engaged in criminally excessive speeding and blatantly endangering the public - I don't see that he has broken any law by filming his traffic stop (or indirectly causing it to be filmed) - I also feel that the officer - in or out of uniform - acted accordingly and in the best interest of the public safety by removing this menace from the highway.

additionally, it is a bit silly to further discussion over it since we all know he received a mild slap on the wrist and the case is closed.

[Platapus]

The point is that he's being charged with a felony for putting the video on YouTube.

Has anyone been able to find a citation for exactly what law he is being charged with? It makes it kinda hard to discuss whether it is right or wrong if we don't know the actual charge.

[Seth8530]

He deserves the ticket he got but the whole "wire tapping" felony is a very dangerous thing to charge him on. our civil liberties are at risk and all yall care to talk about is how stupid the rider was or how idiotic the cop was.

That is NOT the issue. The issue is that filming a public servent in public can get you 16 yrs of jail time. Thats more time than most money launders get.