Medals awarded do not make sense

[tzimisce]

Hey all, I have been reading these forums for a while, trying to figure out sh4. This game definitely has one of the toughest learning curves out there.

Anyway, here is what I don't understand... and please bear with me for the backstory. I have completed tutorials just fine. I could even hit some boats at maximum torpedo ranges.

Now, I'm in S-38 boat and I can't seem to hit anything at all. So, I got a merchant search and destroy mission and one of the merchants passed me so close that it almost rammed me... I fired off torpedoes and I still managed to miss. What the hell? I immediately raged, surfaced and bombarded him with the wrath of 10,000 Poseidons. When the enemy boats sunk I looked for the tiny survivor boats, tracked them all down, loaded up my gun with explosive ammo and turned them all into shredded beef. Their screams of pain still comfort me to this moment.

Pretty much the same thing happened with 2 other groups of merchant ships. I missed every time, then raged, sunk them with cannons and brutally executed the surviving sailors.

Now this is another important piece of info: I never even got hit once by the enemy.

When I ended my patrol I got a purple heart for myself and 2 to distribute among the crew. "Wounded Medal" or something like that. Looked like a purple heart to me. I don't understand this at all. I was expecting the commanding officers to be shocked and appalled by my executions yet I got medals for being wounded.

Why on earth would I get a Wounded medal? Nobody in the crew got hurt, not even a scratch on the boat. What gives? Thanks for your time, fellas.

[sergei]

Welcome aboard tzimisce.

Their screams of pain still comfort me to this moment.

and brutally executed the surviving sailors.

I know it's only a game, but Jeez, that's a bit much isn't it?

[Major Johnson]

Your apparant bloodthirst aside............what torpedos are you carrying?? Is it the Mark 14s?? If so and your not setting them to run shallow, they could be running underneath your targets and that's what happened in the first two years or so of the war until the problem got corrected. With Mark 14s I always set them at the shallowest setting, and switch them to contact only, as the influence option sometimes makes them explode prematurely.

As for the medals, I'm as clueless as you are. I get issued medals at the end of a patrol, but I have no clue as who to give them to or why. Like you said the learning curve for the game is rather steep, and really doesn't have to be.

[thor headsplitter]

Make sure you open the tube doors prior to firing on the tubes you want to use using the Q key. Try to shoot from 1000 yds/m at an approximate AOB of 90 degrees. If you don't open the doors the game will but it takes a few seconds and you will probably miss aft of the target. The medal system is all messed up so just take what they give you and give medals to the crew. I usually give to officers first then chiefs then everybody else.:arrgh!:

[TwistedFemur]

Why on earth would I get a Wounded medal? Nobody in the crew got hurt, not even a scratch on the boat. What gives? Thanks for your time, fellas.


They gave you the purple heart for your wounded ego:D

[WernherVonTrapp]

I believe S-38 (SS-143) is one of the old pigboats. I haven't played any of those subs yet but, I think the default load is the Mk-10s. Those torps aren't able to turn like the Mark-14s and basically just travel in a straight line, though I'm not sure if that matters with a target-lock in game. Are you opening the tube doors before firing ("Q" key)?
As far as the Purple Heart goes, that's probably for just having to endure your patrols in a pigboat. Probably a bedbug bite or something.:D

"When the enemy boats sunk I looked for the tiny survivor boats, tracked them all down, loaded up my gun with explosive ammo and turned them all into shredded beef. Their screams of pain still comfort me to this moment."
http://www.smileys4me.com/getsmiley.php?show=82 Now, you're talkin'. Welcome to the PTO, tzimisce.:salute:

[ancient46]

Were you beyond the minimum arming distance for the torpedo? The Mark 10 does not arm until it has run for 220 meters(240 yards) in the stock game.

[Rockin Robbins]

Hey man, medals never make any sense. All the guys who deserve 'em are dead. They get passed out to us living stiffs just to check off another task in the desk jockey's list. What good is it to worry about it. We live or die no matter what medals are on our chest. Maybe they might be worth something in Honolulu between cruises to impress the dames.

[tzimisce]

Lol, I appreciate the responses.

Yeah, I'm definitely opening the tubes before firing. I even come to a full stop before I do so. I set the torpedo depth to as shallow as possible... the boat in front of me was less than 2000 yards away going close to 90 degrees yet I still managed to miss it and somehow hit a destroyer as a stray.

Ok, here are a few more questions I had:

1) What do WO and SD stand for? What are the differences between radio contact, WO contact and SD contact? As far as I know my S-boat only has a hydrophone.

2) Is there a way I can set the torpedos to run straight, without inputting any data to TDC? Sometimes I only have time to eyeball it if I'm really close to the target.

3) Does the depth that you are at have any gameplay significance at all? Is there any point going below 60 feet or so? No ship can ram you.

4) How in the world do the destroyers keep finding me? As far as I have gathered, hydrophones listen for noise of the fin blades / motor. My boat was stopped and deep under the sea. Yet the destroyer somehow distinguished me from the rest of the environment and sunk me. How the hell did he know that I wasn't some rock formation or a dead whale?

Is there any way to hide from the all-powerful magical hydrophone?

5) How would one go on about upgrading to a better boat? I like starting off with the crappiest ones in the olden RPG fashion, haha. Should I just go for the one I want right off the bat?

6) Where can I find more information about the meaning of alternative dashboard stuff? What I mean is that you can switch between "1/3, 2/3, Standard / Full" speedometer and "Speed in Knots" speedometer. What is the difference in switching between the last depth-meter thingy? One shows higher number for some reason. I'm also a bit confused on why the Left/Right rudder controls go up to 35. I can't think of any way how it can add up to 360 lol.

Thanks for the warm welcome, friends.

[WernherVonTrapp]

As far as I know, WO is your sonar and SD is your air search radar. Your SD radar doesn't have a PPI (Planned Position Indicator) so you'll only hear the crewmen call out the single contacts. You won't be able to actually use the radar screen to view them. That's probably why you don't realize that you have air search radar.
As far as setting torpedoes to run straight, just don't enter the info into the TDC or, if you're on auto target, keep your periscope off the target, gyro angle 0° and fire (not sure why you'd want to do that though). Nevertheless, if the target is at 0° and auto target is on, just fire.
As far as you describe, getting detected all the time, that might be why you're missing w/torpedoes. They're detecting your presence and the target begins to zigzag. When you sound the General Quarters, your damage control team automatically activates, if you don't deactivate them before engaging Silent Running, they remain at their stations and could potentially create noise for the DDs to pick up on. When I was playing Stock, on more than one occasion, I found myself being stalked by DDs after forgetting to deactivate my DC team. As soon as I deactivated them, they DDs seemed to give up. It could be just a coincidence but, I still adhere to that rule as a precaution. It certainly can't hurt to deactivate them if no repairs are required.
There is a great significance to going deep, especially if you go below the thermocline (Thermal Layer). That makes your sub harder to pinpoint by the DDs. The warmer water tends to bend and diffuse the sound of your sub.
As far as lying still and quiet, DDs use two types of sonar detection, passive and active. Passive listens for any sounds (screws, bubbles, crewmen working;), etc.), Active uses ASDIC (or sound pulses known as pinging) which sends out a sound and waits for the echo to bounce back off of your sub. If you're using the external cam, you may not hear the ping when it hits you. You have to keep your sub bladed to present the smallest possible sound cross-section that you can. That is, if the DD is approaching from your side, your boat is presenting it's entire broadside as a sound signature. If he's approaching from your front, your boat is bladed to present the smallest portion of it's size as a sound signature.
Remember, just because they're pinging you, doesn't mean they know exactly where you are. When the pinging speeds up, they're closing in on your exact position.
New boats will be offered to you as the game progresses and commensurate with your performance at sea. As far as "alternative dashboard stuff", it's all here in the forum.
You can find answers to these questions and more, at the link below:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107783 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107783) :03:

[razark]

What is the difference in switching between the last depth-meter thingy? One shows higher number for some reason.
One is the shallow depth gauge, it allows finer control of depth, from surfaced to 165 feet. The other is the not so shallow depth gauge, it allows you to go deeper than the shallow depth gauge (up to 450 feet, I believe), but without as fine a control.

I'm also a bit confused on why the Left/Right rudder controls go up to 35. I can't think of any way how it can add up to 360 lol.

You can only move your rudder so far. If you moved the rudder 360 degrees, you would have turned the rudder in a circle, and it would be the same as having 0 degree rudder. It doesn't control how far you turn, it controls how fast you turn.

[Stealhead]

I find the use of thermal layers to be very useful myself I am not sure that are as much of a factor in the stock game as they are in TMO but you can still use them.

Don't forget that at very close range 3,000yds or less lookouts can possibly spot your periscope(at least they do in TMO) so keep that sucker under water until you are looking through it you don't have to fully retract it just dip it under the waves.Also I fire my fish then I began my escape I don't stick around and watch the boat sink in the scope most times I like the extra few minutes gained to sneak away.

If you are having trouble you can always start a career later in the war and gain access to a better boat.Actually your rank does not make much difference at the start you can select any sub you want form the start so long as that sub is at the base you have selected and is available during the date you selected. When I started playing vanilla SH4 I played with a career in 1943 a Gato class to get the hang of the game then I went with an earlier sub a Porpoise class before surface radar was available. Early war is much harder because you lack any surface radar to aid you in attack on convoys you dont get that 20 or so mile advantage to get into a good spot.The ultimate challenge is to play an early war career in an old S-Boat.

Of course adding a mod is another option as they make the game even more fun/challeging.Personally I recommend trying one of the mega mods like TMO or RFB sooner rather than later they just add that much to the game.

[WernherVonTrapp]

One is the shallow depth gauge, it allows finer control of depth, from surfaced to 165 feet. The other is the not so shallow depth gauge, it allows you to go deeper than the shallow depth gauge (up to 450 feet, I believe), but without as fine a control.


You can only move your rudder so far. If you moved the rudder 360 degrees, you would have turned the rudder in a circle, and it would be the same as having 0 degree rudder. It doesn't control how far you turn, it controls how fast you turn.Thanks for covering those last points for me, razark. I wasn't trying to be rude. My typing skills are horrendous. It takes me sooo long just to type a few sentences and, in all honesty, I was just too tired and frustrated to continue, so I posted a link instead. If you toss a handful of birdseed onto the keyboard, even a pigeon will do a better job of typing than I can.:nope:

[NorthBeach]

" If you toss a handful of birdseed onto the keyboard, even a pigeon will do a better job of typing than I can"

:har:

[tzimisce]

Hey,

Just wanted to thank you all for the help. All this stuff makes a lot more sense now.

Had no idea about the thermal layer and what its use was. It's a lifesaver. Can't believe I could evade 5 destroyers.

Had the command of an old clunker S-boat and just fired off all torpedoes in 1 heavy cruiser. 2 missed, 1 hit and sunk the cruiser and the other 1 went past and hit a tiny passenger boat.

Hopefully I will get re-assigned before my rusty pan gets me killed.

[CaptainMattJ.]

well, youll be offered new boats if you do well. S boats are absolutely terrible and should never be started out with if your new. Mark 10 also suck, and the best torpedo is the MK18 i believe. its a much upgraded MK 14. the balao is the best sub available, but only available in uhhh 1944 i think. and destroyers find you to easily in stock even with the thermal. mods do an excellent job.


and btw Welcome to the SubSim Forum :salute::salute:

[Stealhead]

Are you thinking of the Mk.23? Which is basically a Mk.14 that has only the fastest speed setting and 4,500 yd range?

I disagree that the mk.10 is bad early war it is the most reliable torpedo you can use.

The S-boats are not terrible you just have to learn how to use them to good effect like any weapon.

You can get a Balao class sub in 1943 and in some mods you can get a Tench class sub as well but not until some time in 1944.

I'd agree that mods make the thermal layers more effective but they also make DDs and other enemy ASW vessels far more dangerous and difficult.A surface battle against a DD in TMO is pretty much suicide which it should be.Hell even a submerged battle against subs is nerve racking in TMO at times. Mods are a huge step they do make the game much better but they are also a huge jump in over all difficultly and anyone considering them should take this into account.You should fell fairly comfortable with the stock game before hand.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Are you thinking of the Mk.23? Which is basically a Mk.14 that has only the fastest speed setting and 4,500 yd range?

I disagree that the mk.10 is bad early war it is the most reliable torpedo you can use.

The S-boats are not terrible you just have to learn how to use them to good effect like any weapon.

You can get a Balao class sub in 1943 and in some mods you can get a Tench class sub as well but not until some time in 1944.

I'd agree that mods make the thermal layers more effective but they also make DDs and other enemy ASW vessels far more dangerous and difficult.A surface battle against a DD in TMO is pretty much suicide which it should be.Hell even a submerged battle against subs is nerve racking in TMO at times. Mods are a huge step they do make the game much better but they are also a huge jump in over all difficultly and anyone considering them should take this into account.You should fell fairly comfortable with the stock game before hand. I actually prefer the MK-14 over all the others, exclusively due to the dual range settings. I find the electric torps too slow and range limited, the cuties a waste of tube space (personal opinion) and the Mark-23s a restricted version of the 14s.

I have to concur about playing the stock version, I played it for almost a year and when I switched over to the Mods (also almost a year now), I found the transition was facilitated by my experience with stock. I have to try playing an S-Boat. I gotta get some experience with it. How else can I expect to make admiral?:D

[CaptainMattJ.]

Are you thinking of the Mk.23? Which is basically a Mk.14 that has only the fastest speed setting and 4,500 yd range?

I disagree that the mk.10 is bad early war it is the most reliable torpedo you can use.

The S-boats are not terrible you just have to learn how to use them to good effect like any weapon.

You can get a Balao class sub in 1943 and in some mods you can get a Tench class sub as well but not until some time in 1944.

I'd agree that mods make the thermal layers more effective but they also make DDs and other enemy ASW vessels far more dangerous and difficult.A surface battle against a DD in TMO is pretty much suicide which it should be.Hell even a submerged battle against subs is nerve racking in TMO at times. Mods are a huge step they do make the game much better but they are also a huge jump in over all difficultly and anyone considering them should take this into account.You should fell fairly comfortable with the stock game before hand.

yes i was talking about the MK23 (mixed them up),
2: Mark 10s are awful in terms of speed and , i cant recall exactly, they either had 10% more or less power then the Mk14, i think they had less. cant remember
3: thats also why i said you shouldnt START with an S boat. although its a pretty balanced argument. if noobs pick it as their first theyll learn the hard way not to dive to far, to avoid DD, and the rest. but starting in a better boat helps them experience more without being destroyed. like how to aim, when to fear and when not to fear aircraft, how to evade destroyers, when to surface when to dive, except you dont have to reload. but mainly, its the speed and range and firepower. an S boat can only hold MK10, and it goes so unbelievably slow. half the time catching up to a convoy is extremely lucky. and even then using the MK10 its not a very good way of teaching if he rarely experiences convoy situations. its also louder and takes on ALOT more damage. also cant really teach how to evade DC if you keep getting critcally wounded on the first runs, then sinking.

some poeple can be taught that way and others like to start out easy and get harder.


4: getting a balao in 1943 is only available in pearl, which is also a terrible place to start, cause journeys are INSANELY long and patrols are quite short if you have limited fuel. plus sailing back to midway just to resupply is a chore. Australia takes less time, less fuel which means more patrol time and it isnt that far back to a friendly base to resupply. of course this depends sometimes, but usually it settles closer and if not, early in the war theres manila, though you do have to throughly check your plot for islands more then pearl. and if your caught by DDs in java sea your pretty screwed.

5: that depends on the mod. there are the cheat mods, then there are the serious mods. like subnuclear deck gun and TMO. and stock dds are quite......easy sometimes. theyll dc you a few times and if your alive and took necessary action, he'll most likely keep scanning and give up.

[Stealhead]

5: that depends on the mod. there are the cheat mods, then there are the serious mods. like subnuclear deck gun and TMO.


I am confused are you saying that TMO is a cheat mod? I think you are giving each as an example though never mind.

I was not trying to pick on you MATTJ but you did say that the S-Boat "sucks"(well you said it was terrible) which I don't think is a fair judgment.Of course some on here love the Pig Boat and others hate them that can be fairly said.Supposedly old sub guys said that you where a true submariner back in WWII if you wanted to be in subs after having been abroad an S-Boat or you where nuts.

Also the mk.10s do have less explosive power(497lbs of tnt) but in the early war time period if you are playing either mod (RFB or TMO) with duds on the mk.14 can be nearly useless until 1943(I have had patrols where only 2 or 3 actually worked correctly) in fact with duds on you basically have use only the slow setting on mk.14s anyway which is the same speed as the mk.10 though greater range on the other hand 1943 and later the mk.14 is the best option once its bugs are mostly gone and it then gives you the widest range of flexibility.

The Mk.23s are more reliable but they have the weakness that you can not attack a target outside 4,500yds which is a disadvantage when you get a good ship but she is outside mk.23 range and you are not able to close range or during later war patrols where the asw is so intense that you are better off attacking from greater range.

I agree with Vonntop on the mk.27 they are not all that useful most times so I rarely carry them.But I have seen some hilarious DD kills caused by cuties.:har:

Overall the best bet is to carry a mix of different fish when they are available anyway.I most times carry a mix of mk.14s and mk.18s. Unless you are using an S-boat in which case your only option are the short ranged but insured to bang! mk.10s.

Personally the right time to go "super mod" is different each person some feel the need to complete the entire war in stock first.I myself just ran a few careers in stock for a few months then after getting over the concern with the increase in difficulty I went in.Some guys I am sure pretty much just jumped in head first and loaded up a super mod right away.

[CaptainMattJ.]

5: that depends on the mod. there are the cheat mods, then there are the serious mods. like subnuclear deck gun and TMO.


I am confused are you saying that TMO is a cheat mod? I think you are giving each as an example though never mind.

I was not trying to pick on you MATTJ but you did say that the S-Boat "sucks"(well you said it was terrible) which I don't think is a fair judgment.Of course some on here love the Pig Boat and others hate them that can be fairly said.Supposedly old sub guys said that you where a true submariner back in WWII if you wanted to be in subs after having been abroad an S-Boat or you where nuts.

Also the mk.10s do have less explosive power(497lbs of tnt) but in the early war time period if you are playing either mod (RFB or TMO) with duds on the mk.14 can be nearly useless until 1943(I have had patrols where only 2 or 3 actually worked correctly) in fact with duds on you basically have use only the slow setting on mk.14s anyway which is the same speed as the mk.10 though greater range on the other hand 1943 and later the mk.14 is the best option once its bugs are mostly gone and it then gives you the widest range of flexibility.

The Mk.23s are more reliable but they have the weakness that you can not attack a target outside 4,500yds which is a disadvantage when you get a good ship but she is outside mk.23 range and you are not able to close range or during later war patrols where the asw is so intense that you are better off attacking from greater range.

I agree with Vonntop on the mk.27 they are not all that useful most times so I rarely carry them.But I have seen some hilarious DD kills caused by cuties.:har:

Overall the best bet is to carry a mix of different fish when they are available anyway.I most times carry a mix of mk.14s and mk.18s. Unless you are using an S-boat in which case your only option are the short ranged but insured to bang! mk.10s.

Personally the right time to go "super mod" is different each person some feel the need to complete the entire war in stock first.I myself just ran a few careers in stock for a few months then after getting over the concern with the increase in difficulty I went in.Some guys I am sure pretty much just jumped in head first and loaded up a super mod right away.

i believe i posted a thread concering one such cutie kill. Short story was, i was in java sea and a task force of 2 dds picked me up. in java iif your caught y dds your screwed. i had 1 cutie left. i fired it at the first dd, but no dice. he came over me and DCed me. The second one comes and im defensless soo i turn, but it wasnt enough. lucky thing is though, my periscope bashed it and killed it (:har: at the time). then the oher 1 came around and DCed again. 85% hull damage or something, then hes ABOUT to come finish me when BAM "torpedo impact" (at the time my expression was this: :har::har::har::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::haha::haha ::haha::D:D:D:yeah::yeah::yep::yep::yep::rock::woo t::woot:) the cutie hadnt given up (bless its soul) and impacted on the side of the destroyer, and he capsized.

[WernherVonTrapp]

i believe i posted a thread concering one such cutie kill. Short story was, i was in java sea and a task force of 2 dds picked me up. in java iif your caught y dds your screwed. i had 1 cutie left. i fired it at the first dd, but no dice. he came over me and DCed me. The second one comes and im defensless soo i turn, but it wasnt enough. lucky thing is though, my periscope bashed it and killed it (:har: at the time). then the oher 1 came around and DCed again. 85% hull damage or something, then hes ABOUT to come finish me when BAM "torpedo impact" (at the time my expression was this: :har::har::har::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::haha::haha ::haha::D:D:D:yeah::yeah::yep::yep::yep::rock::woo t::woot:) the cutie hadnt given up (bless its soul) and impacted on the side of the destroyer, and he capsized.That is a hilarious story. The funniest part was picturing it happening in my mind while I was reading your account of it. I have tried them in the past and I do believe their maximum range (probably due to the low speed) is somewhere in the vicinity of 12,000yds.:haha:

[Stealhead]

I witnessed a DD get hit by a mk.27 I had fired once while I was being chased by 3 DDs the thing ran for some time and I was tracking it on the sound gear with great disappointment as it was way off track from any of the DDs so I stopped tracking it.

Suddenly after a very close and nasty DC run on me a minute or so later I hear boom! "torpedo hit sir shes going down!" My guess is that the loud noise of the depth charges going off must have attracted the sound seeker inside the Mk.27 and turned around and pegged onto one of the DDs killing it.:yeah:

What makes the cutie so weak is the low speed sometimes they get a good track but just cant keep up so they work best against a searching ASW vessel who is varying his speed to attract the cutie but he is turning and slowing down enough that the cutie can hit.

Funny as the USS Barb did get a medium sized merchant in WWII with a Mk.27 though they had fired it a almost 90 ft and it came up under and hit the bottom of the ships hull other wise I doubt a cutie alone would be able to sink anything larger than a DD.