Landlord Trying To Evict 97 Yr Old Veteran

[frau kaleun]

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2010/08/06/2010-08-06_vets_eviction_war_at_97_a_court_ruling_could_ho ld_his_fate.html


An elderly World War II vet wants to wipe the decks with a controversial landlord who is trying to give him the heave-ho from his $63-a-month Sunset Park apartment.

"I will stand up and fight him now," said former merchant marine Magnus Saethre, 97, who survived a Nazi U-boat torpedo attack during the war. "I'm scared of nothing."

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2010/08/06/alg_saethre.jpg

Born in Norway, Saethre moved into the Fourth Ave. apartment soon after the war ended in 1945 and has been anchored there ever since. Known as "Old Man Mike" in the neighborhood, Saethre doesn't leave the fourth-floor, one-bedroom apartment much anymore after he had a pin placed in a balky right knee. He also suffers slightly from dementia as well as fading vision and hearing.

"He's like a friend to everyone," said his live-in caregiver and friend Devron King, 55, who met Saethre three decades ago and thinks of him as father figure. "He's the most generous guy in the world," King said. "We take care of each other." But landlord Jack Geula took the nonagenarian and King to Brooklyn Housing Court in 2008 to evict the pair, claiming that King was nothing more than a "predator" who was going after Saethre's modest savings. Geula also charged that King was a nuisance to fellow tenants.

"I'm doing it for the [benefit] of the building's tenants," said Geula, who took control of the building in 2006 and insists that Saethre's $63.29 rent has nothing to do with efforts to force him to ship out. "It's for the courts to decide," said Geula. The judge overseeing the case has yet to rule on their fate.

"It's not a prosecution, it's a persecution," said John Hlavaty, an attorney who represents both Saethre and King.

This is not the first time Geula has been accused of trying to oust tenants paying low rents from a building he owns. In 2007, tenant advocates charged Geula tried to force out longtime low-income tenants from other buildings along Fourth Ave. through legal challenges, failing to make repairs, and not supplying heat and hot water for days at a time.

"Money. That's all he wants," said Saethre. "He should be ashamed of himself. "I'm going to stay here for the rest of my life," he vowed. "At my age, I don't see how [he] could be dumb enough to throw me out of here."


I hope this turns out well for Mr. Saethre. Seriously, it's not like he's gonna be living there another 65 years, let him keep his cheap rent-controlled home for whatever time he's got left.

And if Ms. King is in fact only in it for the old dude's money (assuming he has any to speak of), so what? Ain't nobody else's business. According to the story they've been friends for 30 years and it doesn't appear that he's neglected, abused, or unhappy, so if she ends up getting paid in some fashion for providing care and companionship and he is satisfied with the quality of same, what's the big deal? People pay for "elder care" all the time and in some cases get precious little for their money.

[Sailor Steve]

Veteran or not, if I had someone that age who had lived in the same apartment for 60-odd years, I think I'd be saying "Hey! This guy's paid enough! The rest of his days are on me."

And then when he's gone I'd charge an arm-and-a-leg for the priviledge of moving into where someone had lived for so long! :rotfl2:

But that's probably why I'm not a landlord, and don't own anything to speak of.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Here, here! :yep:

[Zachstar]

I have heard of these attempts to get out low rent tenants before. They get out these longtime users. Put a few thousand in sprucing up then pretend like its worth 300USD a month. Usually the only change was a school opened nearby or property values rose.

Rent prices across the country are nearly downright criminal in my opinion.

[Gerald]

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2010/08/06/2010-08-06_vets_eviction_war_at_97_a_court_ruling_could_ho ld_his_fate.html



I hope this turns out well for Mr. Saethre. Seriously, it's not like he's gonna be living there another 65 years, let him keep his cheap rent-controlled home for whatever time he's got left.

And if Ms. King is in fact only in it for the old dude's money (assuming he has any to speak of), so what? Ain't nobody else's business. According to the story they've been friends for 30 years and it doesn't appear that he's neglected, abused, or unhappy, so if she ends up getting paid in some fashion for providing care and companionship and he is satisfied with the quality of same, what's the big deal? People pay for "elder care" all the time and in some cases get precious little for their money. decide about your life,everyone is entitled to a proper life and not a court, which dealt with by the bureaucracy. :nope:

[AVGWarhawk]

Yeah, attempting to evict this gentleman is quite low. Look at the brightside, this is in the news getting out to people who care. As for the landlord, things may not be so cheery.

[Penguin]

"I will stand up and fight him now," said former merchant marine Magnus Saethre, 97, who survived a Nazi U-boat torpedo attack during the war. "I'm scared of nothing."

I like the guy's attitude! :salute: I bet he still can kick the landlord's butt!

and the landlord sounds very believable given his history of ousting low-income tenants. Crook!:x

[frau kaleun]

I like the guy's attitude! :salute: I bet he still can kick the landlord's butt!

Reminds me a little of this fella (http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100530/articles/100539979?p=1&tc=pg), an 81 yr old (at the time) WWII and Korea vet:

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=SR&Date=20100530&Category=ARTICLES&ArtNo=100539979&Ref=AR&MaxW=600&border=0


[Donald Clouston] made the news — and received a phone call from TV comic Jay Leno — after he reported to Santa Rosa police in March of 2008 that he was on one of his daily multi-mile walks when a teen-ager with a knife tried to rob him on Fourth Street.

Clouston said he told the mugger he'd been attacked with rifles and bayonets, and there was no way he'd hand over his wallet to a kid with a knife.

“Son,” he recalls saying, “you take one more step toward me and I'll take you out.” He said the young man took that step, so he kicked him where it hurts most. He said the would-be assailant writhed on the sidewalk as he continued his walk.

Bada$$ old dudes: :rock:

[HunterICX]

Aye Veterans are a special brand of people, I once talked to a US merchant veteran who sailed through the mediterranean to supply the war effort in Italy at the time.

witnessed a torpedo attack on the ship that sailed in front of him, I remember him telling about the fear that hanged over the ship knowing that the uboat captain might be looking at your ship for his next attack.

HunterICX

[Weiss Pinguin]

Bada$$ old dudes: :rock:
I can't be the only one who thought of this when I read that :p2:

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2021/eastwoodmylawn.jpg

[frau kaleun]

That movie just about broke my heart.

And I mean that in a good way.

[AVGWarhawk]

Bada$$ old dudes: :rock:

Yep, they are cool. We had one on our street. We addressed him as Mr. Ed. Survived WW2. Marched his way through Italy. He passed 3 years ago. Always walking our street with his pipe. Funny part is his pipe was always upside down. He would tease my girls and say he was going to swipe their bikes or ask for a peanut butter/jelly sandwich. Cool guy. Anyway, his story to me one day concerned transporting a superior from the rear to the front lines somewhere in Italy. He was driving a Willys Jeep. As they neared the front the superior could hear "plink...plink,plink, plink." To that he screamed, "They are shooting at us." To which Mr. Ed said, "What do you expect we are in a war zone." He said he just kept on driving to the front and the superior was ducking behind the Willy's dashboard. Last time I spoke with Mr. Ed was when he fell in his backyard. Pipe went one way and his slippers the other way. I was riding by with my daughter and seen him fall. I picked him up, brushed off his pipe and sent him inside to his wife. He was quite disoriented in is twilight years.

[Platapus]

Before opining, I would like a little more information. Clearly the referenced article is written with a bias in favour of the old vet. I would like to know if the accusations of the landlord have any validity.

What kind of lease does this guy have where his rent stays at $65 per month?

Methinks there is more to the story. :hmmm:

[Neptunus Rex]

It's a rent controlled apartment. As long as he remains under lease, (and the landlord has to prove the lease was broken) the rent remains unchanged.

If he moves out, the apartment goes to market rate.

[The Third Man]

If the head line were ...

Landlord wants to evict a 27 year old.

No problem. Agism.

[frau kaleun]

Before opining, I would like a little more information. Clearly the referenced article is written with a bias in favour of the old vet. I would like to know if the accusations of the landlord have any validity.

What kind of lease does this guy have where his rent stays at $65 per month?

Methinks there is more to the story. :hmmm:

He's in a rent-controlled apartment. NYC has had an ongoing rent control and/or rent stabilization program(s) in place since 1943.


Rent control limits the price a landlord can charge a tenant for rent and also regulates the services the landlord must provide. Failure to provide these may allow the tenant to demand a lower rent.

In New York City, rent control is based on the Maximum Base Rent system. A maximum allowable rent is established for each unit, and every two years, the landlord may increase the rent up to 7.5% until the Maximum Base Rent is reached. However, the tenant may challenge these increases on grounds that the building has violations or the owner does not need to increase the rent that much to cover expenses.


He's been living there since 1945, so presumably his rent is based on what he was paying when the law went into effect for that property, which would have been decades ago at least or even as far back as when he first signed the lease. So it would be that amount, plus an increase of no more than the allowable percentage every two years. That's assuming his past landlords were able or willing to raise it as much as they could and as often as they could, which may not have been the case. The previous owner may have been giving him an even sweeter deal because of his age/situation and time in residence. The current landlord has only owned the building since 2006.

If Mr. Saethe chooses to move or is forced out, the new owner gets a new tenant and the rent-control business starts all over again with them, only with a much higher starting rent than the landlord will ever be able to charge Mr. Saethe.

[frau kaleun]

If the head line were ...

Landlord wants to evict a 27 year old.

No problem. Agism.

A 27 year old could not have lived in the same rent-controlled apartment for 65 years, and thus still have a rent so low that his landlord might want to evict him just to bring in a new tenant from whom he could legally demand a much higher starting rent.

Consequently the story would not exist.

[Wolfehunter]

I have heard of these attempts to get out low rent tenants before. They get out these longtime users. Put a few thousand in sprucing up then pretend like its worth 300USD a month. Usually the only change was a school opened nearby or property values rose.

Rent prices across the country are nearly downright criminal in my opinion.
They're trying to do that with our apartment. Some people have been hear for a long time. Landlord tries to make excuses to push there rents up for repairs and improvements. But its only for the front side of the building for the look the show.. Many of the apartments are in serious need of repairs. They look the other way when it comes to new annual leases. But laws here protect us more or less. Its just a pain in the ass to have to record and take notes plus photos of the events. Verbal agreements are bull.

Very frustrating.

I understand his position. I hope he flattens the landlord. I would.

[August]

If the head line were ...

Landlord wants to evict a 27 year old.

No problem. Agism.

And your post is pure youthful arrogance. Which one do you think would be able to better handle the rigors of moving? The 27 year old or the 97 year old?

[SteamWake]

It's a rent controlled apartment. As long as he remains under lease, (and the landlord has to prove the lease was broken) the rent remains unchanged.

If he moves out, the apartment goes to market rate.

Therin lies the motive. I imagine that at the current rate of 60 some dollars it would be a substantial increase. I would also think that at 60 bucks a month the landlord is probably losing money. Property taxes if nothing else.

But I'm with Steve. This guy deserves it. Hell he probably stuggles at 60 some bucks a month. Hopefully since this has gained attention perhpaps a philanthropic minded individual will come to the cause.

[frau kaleun]

And your post is pure youthful arrogance. Which one do you think would be able to better handle the rigors of moving? The 27 year old or the 97 year old?

Well, if we're talking about a healthy 27 yr old, the answer is obvious.

But there are people of all ages who might find themselves in a similar situation and for whom the consequences of it might truly put them in dire straits.

For instance, someone with a disability who lives on a fixed income could be almost any age. They might need to stay in their rent-controlled home because paying a higher rent is something they simply can't afford. And if it looked like a greedy landlord might be trying to find a way to put them on the street and, oh looky, now he can bring in a new tenant and raise the rent considerably - that to me would be just as disturbing.

[Sailor Steve]

...that to me would be just as disturbing.
And to anyone else, so The Third Man's argument does not stand. If it was a 27-year-old in the situation you describe, then people would indeed be up in arms over it. Ageism does not enter into it.

[Dan D]

There will be no eviction for a 97 years old, if that age is true; not even in the US.
That is obvious or not?

[Sailor Steve]

...not even in the US.
What does the nationality have to do with it?

[frau kaleun]

There will be no eviction for a 97 years old, if that age is true; not even in the US.
That is obvious or not?

I honestly don't know. There may be some precedence in the applicable laws for taking age, health, and other factors into consideration.

Obviously the landlord thinks he has a case, otherwise he wouldn't bother. Or maybe he thought the old guy would just roll over and leave to avoid the trouble of taking it this far, who knows.

I can tell you one thing, getting the story out there can't hurt. The landlord won't care but I'm betting nobody will want to be the guy who ruled in favor of the landlord unless they can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Mr. Saethre is doing something so outrageous that he's a certifiable menace to his neighbors.

[Dan D]

What does the nationality have to do with it?

Nothing really. Don't get me wrong. "Not even in the US" is just a phrase like "i am on a horse" or like ""Furthermore, I think Carthage must be destroyed" which the Roman statesman Cato the Elder would always end his speeches with.

[frau kaleun]

"Furthermore, I think Carthage must be destroyed"

I have got to remember to start adding this to the end of my posts.






Furthermore, I think Carthage must be destroyed.

[Platapus]

Is there any empathy for the landlord who may have bills of his own and a family of his own to support?

Or is it a given that there is only one side to this issue?

I am waiting to hear from the "free market- no government involvement" lovers on this forum.

[frau kaleun]

Is there any empathy for the landlord who may have bills of his own and a family of his own to support?


Rent control policies have been in effect in NYC since 1943. I find it hard to believe that the landlord was not aware of this fact when he became the owner of the building in 2006. If he went into the "landlord business" without taking into consideration how a rent-regulation system that has been in place for over 60 years would affect his income, he has no one to blame but himself if the profits he wants or needs didn't exactly come pouring in.

Would you buy an apartment building and expect to support your family with the monthly income from renting out those apartments, without finding out how much income that was likely to be? For a rent-controlled building, I don't think the numbers are going to be all that difficult to crunch. They are what they are, and unless you have tenants vacating apartments (which cannot be counted on), they are only going to change on a pre-set schedule and at a pre-set max/min amount.

I have never lived anywhere near NYC, have never been there, and the first words that popped in my head when I saw the article were "rent control."

So, yeah, if someone in NYC buys a rental property in NYC that is subject to rent control regulations, and then can't make a living off of it - well, I'm thinking that fact would have been obvious to anyone who bothered to do his/her homework. If this landlord did his homework, he had a pretty good idea of what his profit margin was going to be going into the deal, and should've known whether it was enough to meet his needs and those of his family. If he didn't do his homework, he probably shouldn't be trying to make a living off of being a landlord (if that is indeed the case). It makes me feel sorry for anyone who is depending on him to bring home the bacon, but when it comes to doling out sympathy I have to say the landlord is pretty far down on the list.

[kiwi_2005]

What you got to ask yourself is wheres his family and if any are still alive eg sons /daughters why aren't they looking after their dad? Beats me how some families when parents are too old they just go dump them in a retirement home and practically forget about them making sure they go visit them once a year to guarantee their names will still be in the Will. Never did that to my parents my sisters and I took turns in looking after our mother when she got cancer and couldn't even feed herself the doctors recommended we send her of to the retirement home where she would get well looked after, we looked at him as if he was an alien, retirement home? No thanks. We would of done the same for Dad without a second thought but he died in his sleep while still able to look after himself. If this old fella hasn't any relatives that can help or maybe hes one of these men who don't want the help of family i don't know. Just strange how some treat their old relatives.

I hope when im old my sons dont throw me in a apartment or retirement home they be out of my will just like that. :smug: Not that i have a lot to give them anyways! :haha:

[Weiss Pinguin]

I have got to remember to start adding this to the end of my posts.






Furthermore, I think Carthage must be destroyed.
Make sure to say it from a horse for full effect.

Also I'm on a horse.

[Sailor Steve]

Nothing really. Don't get me wrong. "Not even in the US" is just a phrase like "i am on a horse" or like ""Furthermore, I think Carthage must be destroyed" which the Roman statesman Cato the Elder would always end his speeches with.
Gotcha. I was thinking "Is the US so bad that we need to be pointed out as exceptionally etc?"

So I'll add Caesar Augustus's favorite means-nothing quip: "Quicker than boiled asparagus!"

[Sailor Steve]

Also I'm on a horse.
Wilbur, my back is killing me.

[Tribesman]

Simple lesson, never buy property with sitting tennants.

[Sailor Steve]

Simple lesson, never buy property with sitting tennants.
On the other hand, with an apartment building that's kind of the point. :D

Might be a good idea to see what you're getting into beforhand though.

[August]

Might be a good idea to see what you're getting into beforhand though.

That would be true but we should note that this guy is no greenhorn:

This is not the first time Geula has been accused of trying to oust tenants paying low rents from a building he owns.
In 2007, tenant advocates charged Geula tried to force out longtime low-income tenants from other buildings along Fourth Ave. through legal challenges, failing to make repairs, and not supplying heat and hot water for days at a time.

[Platapus]

But do we know the outcome of that case?

Anyone can accuse anyone of anything.

[frau kaleun]

What you got to ask yourself is wheres his family and if any are still alive eg sons /daughters why aren't they looking after their dad?

It's possible that he never had kids. IIRC the article says the live-in caregiver has known him for thirty years and thinks of him as a surrogate father. If so she may be the closest thing he has to "family."

[krashkart]

Mr. Saethre isn't the only one to face eviction from Mr. Guela - it does not strike me as having anything to do with age.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2007/11/20/2007-11-20_brooklyn_tenant_fights_off_eviction_othe.html

[Wolfehunter]

Rent control policies have been in effect in NYC since 1943. I find it hard to believe that the landlord was not aware of this fact when he became the owner of the building in 2006. If he went into the "landlord business" without taking into consideration how a rent-regulation system that has been in place for over 60 years would affect his income, he has no one to blame but himself if the profits he wants or needs didn't exactly come pouring in.

Would you buy an apartment building and expect to support your family with the monthly income from renting out those apartments, without finding out how much income that was likely to be? For a rent-controlled building, I don't think the numbers are going to be all that difficult to crunch. They are what they are, and unless you have tenants vacating apartments (which cannot be counted on), they are only going to change on a pre-set schedule and at a pre-set max/min amount.

I have never lived anywhere near NYC, have never been there, and the first words that popped in my head when I saw the article were "rent control."

So, yeah, if someone in NYC buys a rental property in NYC that is subject to rent control regulations, and then can't make a living off of it - well, I'm thinking that fact would have been obvious to anyone who bothered to do his/her homework. If this landlord did his homework, he had a pretty good idea of what his profit margin was going to be going into the deal, and should've known whether it was enough to meet his needs and those of his family. If he didn't do his homework, he probably shouldn't be trying to make a living off of being a landlord (if that is indeed the case). It makes me feel sorry for anyone who is depending on him to bring home the bacon, but when it comes to doling out sympathy I have to say the landlord is pretty far down on the list.Landlord do what they do because 99% of the time it works. This time this guy fought back. He's a fighter. All his life he's a fighter. He doesn't know defeat. Landlord is a sleesy ass-hole who thinks he can get away with whatever he want.