SH5 should have been from Doenitz's point of view

[skoop]

Personally I kinda get board searching for convoys, they should have made the focus of SH5 more from a stategic standdpoint.

Seems more interesting....they named the game battle of the atlantic...seems more focus could have been on the whole operation, just from the assumption of the title.

Think of the possiblities of running the whole u-boat war, you pick where they deploy, you organize wolfpacks through messages.

Then jump into any U-boat command to be part of the attack.

Instead of upgrading one u-boat, you are upgrading the whole fleet.

Ubi went a whole different direction, focusing on one sub with half baked execution.

I am tempted to dump my copy on ebay, but something tells me this game will shine by early 2011 due to dedicated modders and for that I eagerly await with my SH5 intact.

[Harmsway!]

You're talking more of a fleet command style of game. That is something entirely different from what the SH series strives for. There are several other games that do just what you are talking about. You should go look at them and give them a try. I can't speak to them though because they're not for me. I played fleet games before and find all I what to be is captain of my own ship. No promotion for me.

[skoop]

The only Fleet command I've played was the modern one by sonalyst.

Never heard of a tactical with strategic layer u-boat game, but I might be wrong.

I do realize some may prefer the simple captain aspect I get it.

I find myself fast forwarding over the transit time all over the ocean desparately looking for action.

Why not play from more of a commander role, then jump in and captain u-boats as they make contact.

Just seems more interesting and fresh than what they did with SH5.

[Sailor Steve]

WELCOME ABOARD!:sunny:

The whole point of Silent Hunter is to be a...silent hunter. Not a fleet admiral. I agree it might be nice to have a game like that, though it's not to my particular taste, but Silent Hunter isn't the title for it.

[Subnuts]

So then we could all be like "Heil me!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pje5ROe5Y_w

[JScones]

Wasn't "Subwolves" gonna be this for SH3? It seemed like a good idea, but perhaps overly ambitious judging by its, erm, lack of full release.

[Sailor Steve]

How politely said, Jaesen. :sunny:

[janh]

The designers focus was just the opposite, to go smaller and try to recreate the immersion and tension on a single sub, with development of its characters. However, too many approximations were made (no crew member can even die!), and the big picture, i.e. a (somewhat) realistic "submarine warfare simulator" was not successfully executed.

I personally also would have hoped that Ubi would actually go big in its design ideas, and add a strategic layer of naval warfare in the Atlantic to the game. The immersion for me comes from the submarine warfare part, and I wouldn't really care a lot about the interior design or what my little fella's have for dinner. But organizing other subs patrol zones, wolfpacks, scrolling through their "mini patrol logs" during the harbor breaks, hmmh, that would have been a nice addition. Of course no very realistic, since an active sub caption wouldn't serve as BdU or a Flotilla commander... But after all, it is a game and ought to be fun, not a "real(istic) job".

[raymond6751]

Wasn't "Subwolves" gonna be this for SH3? It seemed like a good idea, but perhaps overly ambitious judging by its, erm, lack of full release.

http://www.subwolves.com/phpfus/mFusion/news.php

I just checked and the project is still going. He thinks maybe this summer. I hope so, this is the logical next step in Silent Hunter gaming.

[janh]

Subwolves would have to deal with the intrinsic shortcomings of SHIII, such as the lack of submarine AI and true wolfpacks. I think any such feature must be close to the engine, i.e. hardcoded, to be dynamic and really more than external rescripting of some scenarios.

Maybe the SHV scripting language provides means to program something that allows a player to dynamically interact with other subs. Although I suppose that in that case the existing interaction with AI platforms should already in vanilla SHV be much more expanded than it actually is.

[Placoderm]

I am tempted to dump my copy on ebay,...

Unfortunately, you cannot sell your copy anywhere, ever. Selling your software or any derivatives is in violation of the License Agreement. In addition, anyone buying it would be unable to install/play it unless you also sold them your entire Ubisoft Online account...which is tied to all your other Ubi games.

I know, it's a headache...but it's a headache we all agreed to abide by.


:salute:

[skoop]

The designers focus was just the opposite, to go smaller and try to recreate the immersion and tension on a single sub, with development of its characters. However, too many approximations were made (no crew member can even die!), and the big picture, i.e. a (somewhat) realistic "submarine warfare simulator" was not successfully executed.

I personally also would have hoped that Ubi would actually go big in its design ideas, and add a strategic layer of naval warfare in the Atlantic to the game. The immersion for me comes from the submarine warfare part, and I wouldn't really care a lot about the interior design or what my little fella's have for dinner. But organizing other subs patrol zones, wolfpacks, scrolling through their "mini patrol logs" during the harbor breaks, hmmh, that would have been a nice addition. Of course no very realistic, since an active sub caption wouldn't serve as BdU or a Flotilla commander... But after all, it is a game and ought to be fun, not a "real(istic) job".

Yes, my point exactly, SHIII already did the single sub sim, why not do something different this time around ?

[skoop]

Unfortunately, you cannot sell your copy anywhere, ever. Selling your software or any derivatives is in violation of the License Agreement. In addition, anyone buying it would be unable to install/play it unless you also sold them your entire Ubisoft Online account...which is tied to all your other Ubi games.

I know, it's a headache...but it's a headache we all agreed to abide by.


:salute:


Well I guess we who bought SH5 are really counting on deliverance by the modders, or we all become suckers that were suckered by ubi.

[SteelViking]

Well I guess we who bought SH5 are really counting on deliverance by the modders, or we all become suckers that were suckered by ubi.

Oh, its not much longer now until mods start completely revamping the game from the ground up. Once S3D 1.0 releases, along with all the work that privateer has been doing on modding tools, basically anything will be possible.

[Sailor Steve]

Yes, my point exactly, SHIII already did the single sub sim, why not do something different this time around ?
By that logic the last single-sub subsim should have been Silent Service, back in 1986.

[skoop]

By that logic the last single-sub subsim should have been Silent Service, back in 1986.


Funny, I played silent service in 1986 on a C64.

So following my "logic", with so many installments of single sub sims, you would think just one of them would try to mix it up and address the point of view from a more strategic perspective. Why command one u-boat when you can control theater operations and still jump in and command a sub when it finds contact.

The model I'm thinking of is the battle of britain flight sim. You play from the strategic level and do all the planning. Then when the action begins, you jump in and fly in combat.

[Sailor Steve]

Part of the problem is that it's difficult if not impossible to be complete in everything. Look at the problem SH5 has with trying to go more in-depth into the 'Captain' part. Other things are suffering and nobody's completely happy. Back when SH3 was in development several of us said all we really wanted us AOTD with modern graphics. What we got was both better and worse, and nobody was completely happy.

As I said in my first post, I have no objection to that kind of game (not that I would ever play it), but it wouldn't be Silent Hunter. It would be Strategic Admiral or something like that. They still haven't been able to get the operational part right, and I think trying to add tactical and strategic levels would only make it worse.

[SteelViking]

Part of the problem is that it's difficult if not impossible to be complete in everything. Look at the problem SH5 has with trying to go more in-depth into the 'Captain' part. Other things are suffering and nobody's completely happy. Back when SH3 was in development several of us said all we really wanted us AOTD with modern graphics. What we got was both better and worse, and nobody was completely happy.

As I said in my first post, I have no objection to that kind of game (not that I would ever play it), but it wouldn't be Silent Hunter. It would be Strategic Admiral or something like that. They still haven't been able to get the operational part right, and I think trying to add tactical and strategic levels would only make it worse.

Our only chance of a subsim with both strategic aspects as well as captaining a sub first hand would be if SEGA were to buy the rights to the series, or if they were to develop their own subsim. They could call it U-Boat Total War, it would be awesome:sunny:

[Pablo]

Hi!

Well, there is another option: you can go the boardgaming route with Compass Games' Steel Wolves (http://compassgames.com/show/product/steel_wolves), slated to come out later this year and modeled on their current Silent War (http://compassgames.com/show/product/silent_war) game (see the Subsim review of Silent War here (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/silent_war/review_silent_war.php)).

Pablo

[Dowly]

The game should've been from the cook's POV. With features such as:

- Master the cooking in rough seas with completely dynamic movement of the soup!
- Find new recipes from the wrecks of the allied shipping or by visiting exotic ports!
- The quality of your cookings have direct influence to the people around you, think twice how much salt you use!
- See and feel the power of the state of the art physics engine as you serve your cookings around the boat, can you handle the rocking or will your soup become just a smear in the bilge?

:hmmm:


AWESOME! :rock:

[SteelViking]

The game should've been from the cook's POV. With features such as:

- Master the cooking in rough seas with completely dynamic movement of the soup!
- Find new recipes from the wrecks of the allied shipping or by visiting exotic ports!
- The quality of your cookings have direct influence to the people around you, think twice how much salt you use!
- See and feel the power of the state of the art physics engine as you serve your cookings around the boat, can you handle the rocking or will your soup become just a smear in the bilge?

:hmmm:


AWESOME! :rock:

:har:This is great:har:

[THE_MASK]

Yeah , but what has the woman with the large kahunas got to do with .

[robbo180265]

Yeah , but what has the woman with the large kahunas got to do with .

Who cares? She has my vote:up:

[janh]

As I said in my first post, I have no objection to that kind of game (not that I would ever play it), but it wouldn't be Silent Hunter. It would be Strategic Admiral or something like that. They still haven't been able to get the operational part right, and I think trying to add tactical and strategic levels would only make it worse.

No, surely that wouldn't be Silent Hunter as we knew it once. It would be what TF1942 was to Fighting Steel and its predecessors. Older games often had little strategic and tactical planning and organization components in the, think of Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, or the original Battle of Britain, Jane's Longbow or even the really old Red Storm Rising. Though sometimes quite simple, I found it contributed nicely by motivating me to continue on. With games that lack it, all you can "fight" for is medals and promotions, but the big picture is all the time the same. After going through such a game once, having been promoted and tied down with all the virtual brass, the interesting dwindles then quickly.

Of course, Steve, you are perfectly right that it is not the time to add the 2nd floor if the first is half-baked... The foundations must be thorough and solid before you can take the next step.

[Kryptoff]

I think the game that comes closest to what the original poster wanted is WolfPack. Subsim review here (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/wolfpack.html). I'd personally love a remake of that.

[Sailor Steve]

With games that lack it, all you can "fight" for is medals and promotions, but the big picture is all the time the same. After going through such a game once, having been promoted and tied down with all the virtual brass, the interesting dwindles then quickly.
I agree with Skoop's original idea, but some things are for some people and other things are for others. When I play a tabletop miniatures game I would rather just play one-off games than a campaign. I was a sailor. I never wanted to be an Admiral or a General or the president.

So for me it's just the opposite of what you seem to want. like playing the pilot, or the captain. I do prefer career modes over single games, but the tactical and strategic don't interest me (which should also explain my lack of enthusiasm over what I've heard of SH5's campaign). I don't "fight" for medals or promotions, but I also don't "fight" to win the war. I just like the machinery and the feel of losing myself inside the fantasy of pretending I'm a submariner. Or a Pilot. That's about it.

[skoop]

No, surely that wouldn't be Silent Hunter as we knew it once. It would be what TF1942 was to Fighting Steel and its predecessors. Older games often had little strategic and tactical planning and organization components in the, think of Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, or the original Battle of Britain, Jane's Longbow or even the really old Red Storm Rising. Though sometimes quite simple, I found it contributed nicely by motivating me to continue on. With games that lack it, all you can "fight" for is medals and promotions, but the big picture is all the time the same. After going through such a game once, having been promoted and tied down with all the virtual brass, the interesting dwindles then quickly.

Of course, Steve, you are perfectly right that it is not the time to add the 2nd floor if the first is half-baked... The foundations must be thorough and solid before you can take the next step.


That exactly is the point I was trying to make. I like having a hand in the Big picture. I personally think it would really spice up the series.

[skoop]

I agree with Skoop's original idea, but some things are for some people and other things are for others. When I play a tabletop miniatures game I would rather just play one-off games than a campaign. I was a sailor. I never wanted to be an Admiral or a General or the president.

So for me it's just the opposite of what you seem to want. like playing the pilot, or the captain. I do prefer career modes over single games, but the tactical and strategic don't interest me (which should also explain my lack of enthusiasm over what I've heard of SH5's campaign). I don't "fight" for medals or promotions, but I also don't "fight" to win the war. I just like the machinery and the feel of losing myself inside the fantasy of pretending I'm a submariner. Or a Pilot. That's about it.


I see your point, I was just throwing the idea out there to see others take on it. I wasn't trying start some crusade to get a strategic layer added to silent hunter. Just see'n what others thought of the idea.

I have a theory that sims with a dynamic/ stategic layer become deep classic sims. Falcon 4.0, Apache vs Havoc, and Battle of Britain come to mind.

[Krauter]

If you hoenstly want this type of gameplay, though it is not in the Atlantic; play Pacific storm where you are overall commander of either Allied or Japanese forces in the Pacific. You can play at the strategic level and you also have the option of jumping to the tactical level and controlling the ships (albeit in a far from simulator like manner)

[skoop]

If you hoenstly want this type of gameplay, though it is not in the Atlantic; play Pacific storm where you are overall commander of either Allied or Japanese forces in the Pacific. You can play at the strategic level and you also have the option of jumping to the tactical level and controlling the ships (albeit in a far from simulator like manner)

I did play that game and rather enjoyed it but it was very buggy, I could never finish a full campaign. I'm not suggesting we simulate the whole war, just uboat operations with a strategic level involved.

[Highbury]

Unfortunately, you cannot sell your copy anywhere, ever. Selling your software or any derivatives is in violation of the License Agreement. In addition, anyone buying it would be unable to install/play it unless you also sold them your entire Ubisoft Online account...which is tied to all your other Ubi games.

I know, it's a headache...but it's a headache we all agreed to abide by.


:salute:

That is why all of my games that require an account each have a web-based email created just for that game, as well as a Username and Password that are individual to that game. Then it can be sold/passed on to others.

Why would you actually use your own email? :damn:

The exception are Steam games because I don't want 20 accounts, but I rarely buy those and only after I am quite sure I like the title already.

[Sailor Steve]

That is why all of my games that require an account each have a web-based email created just for that game, as well as a Username and Password that are individual to that game. Then it can be sold/passed on to others.
That is a brilliant idea! :sunny: