Japaneese tanker 'damaged' at mouth of Persian Gulf

[SteamWake]

Cause of damage is 'unclear' but suspicious.



DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — A Japanese shipping line raised alarm Wednesday that one of its supertankers was damaged by an explosion in a possible attack in the Persian Gulf, but authorities on both sides of the tense waterway denied that any strike occurred.


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/07/28/japan-shipping-company-mitsui-says-explosion-occurred-oil-tanker-near-persian-429969576/?test=latestnews

[TLAM Strike]

Hit near the waterline with an explosion...
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/55/493limburg2050081722145.jpg
^Like that French Tanker back in '02.

[SteamWake]

Local officials cited natural causes, such as an unusually strong wave that slammed into the side of the ship.


Man thats pretty weak right there... I guess they think were all idiots.

Unless there talking about the 'wave' in front of a torpedo.

[Oberon]

French I can understand, but what does Al'Qaeda have to gain by hitting Japanese shipping, they're not exactly up there on the Islamic hit list. :hmmm:
However, if one wants to stir things up in the area then nationality is not a concern.

[SteamWake]

Or a case of mistaken identity.

But yea my first thought was Japneese?? arent they kind of neutral in that region??

Guess not anymore.

[Skybird]

That's nothing to the news that a US coastguard cutter has rammed another oil well in the Mexican gulf, making it spilling oil 30 m up into the air.

Fate surely has a sense for sarcasm.

[TLAM Strike]

French I can understand, but what does Al'Qaeda have to gain by hitting Japanese shipping, they're not exactly up there on the Islamic hit list. :hmmm:
However, if one wants to stir things up in the area then nationality is not a concern.

They hit Japanese tankers back in the 1980's (Three, two damaged- one unk prob mine, one by an F-4, one MiG-23 attack missed). In fact the Iranians were very indiscriminate with their attacks.

[nikimcbee]

It's the ghost of the USS Harder!

[Oberon]

They hit Japanese tankers back in the 1980's (Three, two damaged- one unk prob mine, one by an F-4, one MiG-23 attack missed). In fact the Iranians were very indiscriminate with their attacks.

Well, true...but Iranian attack aside (and let's face it, they don't have a lot to gain from such an attack...and if they had launched an attack I'd have expected it on an EU vessel following the recent legislation that was passed) the only other suspect is the same as the French merchant hit and that's Al'Qaeda, and Japan is not exactly high on their hit list...it's on it...sure, along with most modern nations, but not as high as, for example, France, the UK, US, etc.

Could well have been misident though...although the Red Circle on White isn't exactly easy to mistake for any other flag.... :hmmm:

[Castout]

It must be the mysterious stranger!:O:

[Sailor Steve]

Hit near the waterline with an explosion...
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/55/493limburg2050081722145.jpg
^Like that French Tanker back in '02.
That smoke isn't very realistic. Can it be modded?

[Task Force]

Could it be the somalia Pirates moved?

[Castout]

Could it be the somalia Pirates moved?

Perhaps a terrorist attack that forgot to bring at the very least
half of the explosive.:hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Probably one of three reasons:

Misidentification
Indiscriminate
Pirate

All equally as serious.

[Oberon]

Probably one of three reasons:

Misidentification
Indiscriminate
Pirate

All equally as serious.

Knowing some of the pirates out there it could well be all three :yep:

[Subnuts]

That smoke isn't very realistic. Can it be modded?

That tanker was clearly hit in it's fuel bunker. It should have exploded instantly and sank in 10 seconds.

[Skybird]

"Hit near the waterline" - could it be that a wave has thrown a mine against the hull? Iran used mines in the war with Iraq - and when we still find unexploded bombs, ammunition and even mines from WWII in Europe and the Baltic, then why not some undiscovered surviving mines in the Gulf?

Another scenario I could imagine is a Republican Guards rubberspeedboat commando practicing - I would like to see a photo of the hit, whether it is a big or small one. Size and shape of the entrance hole would allow to assess if it was a big or small warhead, and of what type - if it was a warhead.

The theory of a mini-tsunami or freak wave due to an earthquake I have a problem with, since neither Abu Dhabi's National Center of Meteorology and Seismology nor the US Geological Service do confirm any unsual seismic activity in the region prior to the event.

[SteamWake]

That's nothing to the news that a US coastguard cutter has rammed another oil well in the Mexican gulf, making it spilling oil 30 m up into the air.

Fate surely has a sense for sarcasm.

Actually that was in the news I posted a link two days ago.

The story I heard is what it was a Tug not a Cutter but either could be correct.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=172918

[Jimbuna]

Knowing some of the pirates out there it could well be all three :yep:

Rgr that.

[Oberon]

"Hit near the waterline" - could it be that a wave has thrown a mine against the hull? Iran used mines in the war with Iraq - and when we still find unexploded bombs, ammunition and even mines from WWII in Europe and the Baltic, then why not some undiscovered surviving mines in the Gulf?

That's probably one of the more likely answers, although I would have thought the damage would have been greater unless it was a partial detonation as opposed to a full one due to age and corrosion.
Iranian commando training is also a possibility, a Japanese merchant would make a good unsuspecting target, but again, why leave the explosives on the ship? Makes no real sense to attack a Japanese vessel, particularly when it's getting hard to ship Iranian oil anywhere... :hmmm:

[TLAM Strike]

"Hit near the waterline" - could it be that a wave has thrown a mine against the hull? Iran used mines in the war with Iraq - and when we still find unexploded bombs, ammunition and even mines from WWII in Europe and the Baltic, then why not some undiscovered surviving mines in the Gulf? Very possible a lot of Iranian mines were not laid correctly, they became entangled in their own anchor chain and sank to the bottom or were not fused correctly and failed to arm. It would not surprise me if a storm brought a few to the surface once in a while and if they did hit something there is a possibility of a low order detonation of one of those after they have been in the water for 20 something years.

Here is a map that shows where the Iranian minefields were placed in the 1980's
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/2103/iranmap.jpg

An unsweeped Iraqi mine is also a possibility. Iraq used a lot of drifting mines in both ODS and OIF. They placed so many in ODS that the Allied forces ran out of markers to flag them all!
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/1465/minespl.jpg
Also during OIF improvised sea mines have also been seen, possibly planted by non-state parties.

[Vladivostok]

Another scenario I could imagine is a Republican Guards rubberspeedboat commando practicing - I would like to see a photo of the hit, whether it is a big or small one. Size and shape of the entrance hole would allow to assess if it was a big or small warhead, and of what type - if it was a warhead.


You've probably already found a picture but in case you haven't;

http://static.expressen.se/polopoly/bilder/2010/07/29/1.2080099TS1280408087658_defaultImage.jpg

It's quite high above the water line, sure is a little quaint how it struck at that height. Well, I'm no expert when it comes to ships, boats, frigates.... or any kind of vessels used to travel the seas, but wouldn't they see if something big enough came that close from the bridge?

[TLAM Strike]

You've probably already found a picture but in case you haven't;

http://static.expressen.se/polopoly/bilder/2010/07/29/1.2080099TS1280408087658_defaultImage.jpg

It's quite high above the water line, sure is a little quaint how it struck at that height. Well, I'm no expert when it comes to ships, boats, frigates.... or any kind of vessels used to travel the seas, but wouldn't they see if something big enough came that close from the bridge?
There was an incident years ago where a US CVN collided with a dhow in the Gulf. The CVN's crew failed to see it. Could be that is what happened here.

[Vladivostok]

There was an incident years ago where a US CVN collided with a dhow in the Gulf. The CVN's crew failed to see it. Could be that is what happened here.

Not too far-fetched, though I guess you'd stop over and at least excuse yourself if ramming someone else at sea?
As said, my experience when it comes to this is limited to rowing when nobody else's around.

Even though the US never reported any activity that might just be it? Wouldn't look too good if a US SS popped up all of a sudden in the strait of Hormuz. Something tells me that it'd make Iran go ballistic.

[Oberon]

That's the Jap tanker in that pic?

That's an interesting spot of damage...a bit high in the waterline for a mine unless she had a heavier load when the incident occured.
That high up I'd say was a collision with a small craft, someones prow would have got a bit of a dent...but that being said...it would have to be a direct side on strike because there are no scrape lines to speak off that would indicate an impact of anything other than a ninety degree angle...and furthermore, the ship would then have to back off as quickly as it struck in order not to create any rendering of paint. So...no...I don't think it was a collision...although I may be wrong.

What are the likelihoods of something like an RPG doing that kind of damage?

[Vladivostok]

It's M. Star on the picture.
I combined too much time spent watching CSI and almost non-existent photoshop skills to take a closer look on it and what appears strange (to me that is) is that the dent is squared. Is the hull constructed in the sense that it's using "compartments"? It's almost a perfect square after all and some black scrape marks on the red part of it.

Here's another picture of her:

http://www.svd.se/multimedia/dynamic/00610/tankerstor_610615b.jpg

Don't know if it's loaded with oil in this picture or not but it seems like it couldn't have been weighed down too much when the collision happened?

Edit: The company, Matsui O.S.K Lines, ought to release more information soon, so far they claim it was caused by an explosion. More technical data at: http://www.mol.co.jp/pr-e/2010/e-pr-1037.html

[Skybird]

I was thinking of an RPG attack, too, thus my theory of a speedboat attack, maybe as part of a demonstrative message to the US. It was 0300 local time, so it probably was dark, visibility low. But that damage does not look like a pentrating hit of a warhead or shell, more like the metal being distorted by a bigger shockfront from a force from outside - an explosion blow, a wave, a collision with a huge object.

An RPG is designed to penetrated through armour much more resisting than the hull of a tanker, I would assume, and for that tries to create point-focussed power. Layman that I am, by that picture I don't think it was that.

A wave would need seismic activity causing it, but that seismic activity is denied. Unlikely scenario. Also, it would have been a rmarkable narrow wave with a very regionally limited effect - not only was it not noted somewhere else int he strait, but also did it not even effect the full broadside of the tanker, just a small point of it.

Explosion nearby - maybe that is one option. Question is: what exploded? A mine? A device that was made to explode nearby? The damaged area looks a bit like the shape of a sphere, a big marble that banged against the ship. That could be done by a shockwave created by an explosion, if that explosion creates a regular spheric undirected shockwave .

A collision with a boat or vessel seems to be an option. But the collision then was over the waterline only, not under water, at least the dmage seems to stop short above the waterline. I would assume then that the only part of most ships able to cause a damage like that would be the stern, headon. Whioch means it was either inentional, or visibility was low (0300 in the morning). A sub it probably was not, the centre of the damage is quite a bit high on the hull. A military vessel trying to slip through the strait in the shadow of the tanker, at night? Then we probably will never hear the truth as long as no damaged vessel is reported back in a western-run military harbour. But I tend tio think a collision it was only with a civilian traffic.

Finally, could it be that something happened inside that part of the tanker that caused a suction effect inside, like from an implosion? Is there something in that part of a tanker that could blow up/implode, and cause such an effect?

[ETR3(SS)]

If something blew up inside the tanker it wouldn't be an implosion, but an explosion. The shape of the damage implies collision to me. The square shape of the damaged area makes sense because you can see the outline of the ships frames, and you can see a curve to the damaged area when looking from the top to the bottom. As too it's apparent high height, they could have pumped overboard some of their variable ballast to get a good look at the damaged area.

Wouldn't look too good if a US SS popped up all of a sudden in the straight of Hormuz. Something tells me that it'd make Iran go ballistic. Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last either. I believe the most recent event involved the USS Hartford and the USS New Orleans in the Straights of Hormuz. Iran didn't seem to upset about it then.

[Skybird]

If something blew up inside the tanker it wouldn't be an implosion, but an explosion.

That's why I asked if there is something that could cause an implosive effect, the vacuum inside the ship causing the deformation of the hull. Like certain bombs suck out the air and movable items from tunnels inside a subterranean structure, for example. Maybe some gas that formed in thge inner of the oil tanks?

Just wild guessing. I could as well imagine a Romulan quantum singularity breaching the energetic lock that encapsuled it for transportation. :D

[Platapus]

But how is the State Department gonna blame North Korea for this? This should be an interesting story. :haha:

[Castout]

But how is the State Department gonna blame North Korea for this? This should be an interesting story. :haha:

Come on Platapus you're not being cool that comment should only be let out a day after the official release :D

[ETR3(SS)]

That's why I asked if there is something that could cause an implosive effect, the vacuum inside the ship causing the deformation of the hull. Like certain bombs suck out the air and movable items from tunnels inside a subterranean structure, for example. Maybe some gas that formed in thge inner of the oil tanks?

Just wild guessing. I could as well imagine a Romulan quantum singularity breaching the energetic lock that encapsuled it for transportation. :DI see what you're getting at now. I can't think of anything that would be onboard an oil tanker that could cause that effect.:hmmm:

[krashkart]

Finally, could it be that something happened inside that part of the tanker that caused a suction effect inside, like from an implosion? Is there something in that part of a tanker that could blow up/implode, and cause such an effect?


Are you referring to a thermobaric explosive? First thing that popped into my mind when I read your post. :ping:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon


I don't have an understanding of how something of that nature would cause the hull to buckle inward. They're intended to produce greater overpressure as opposed to conventional explosives. The oxygen would be depleted but there would still be gases left over from and created by the combustion process. The hull I think would have retained an outward bulge if such an explosion occurred internally. Like I said though, I don't know the mechanics of it.


Maybe it was caused by a giant vacuum cleaner. :DL

[TheSatyr]

Apparently they are also looking into the possibility that she collided with a sub. If that is what occured I wonder how long before they figure out who's sub it was.

[Skybird]

As too it's apparent high height, they could have pumped overboard some of their variable ballast to get a good look at the damaged area.


If that could make such a difference in height, then it could very well have been a Western sub that tried to slip through the strait by hiding in the noise the tanker made. Or it was a misnavigating Iranian sub - for the slow-moving Kilos, stationing them in or close to the narrow strait is the most natural decision.

[TLAM Strike]

Not so sure it was a western sub. Look at where the damage on the taker was. For perspective he is a photo I found (even appears to be the same class of tanker) fully laden and unladen:

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6374/oiltankerships.jpg

The top of the damaged hull is just about where the waterline would be fully laden. The draft of this class of tanker is listed as 20 meters lets add an additional 10 meters due to cargo weighted her down. Now a 688 class sub has a draft of 10 meters (Lets add another 15 for the deck and sail) so if a US sub hit her the damage would be at the bottom of her keel assuming the sub was just barely submerged but the water where the ship was hit is 90 meters deep meaning that a submerged sub about 30 meters of water to work with. If she was deeper the damaged would be near the bottom of her keel.

If it was a sub I would suspect it was Iranian, perhaps a Ghadir class boat. It is only about 10 meters tall.

[SteamWake]

After seeing the photo it does look like they simply ran into something.

Things usually float 'on the waterline' that explains the location.

Hell they may have run over a fishing boat and not even really know it.

In my sailing days one thing we knew was to give these tankers and container vessels a wide berth. Most of the time they arent even looking where the hell they are going.

[ETR3(SS)]

Why look where you're going when you have the right of way? Seriously, the vessel with the least ability to maneuver has the right of way.

[TLAM Strike]

Why look where you're going when you have the right of way?

This is why... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brNX4xqlXJE)

[ETR3(SS)]

I swear that video never gets old. :rotfl2:

[Jimbuna]

This is why... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brNX4xqlXJE)


Brings a smile every time....one of the classics :DL

[antikristuseke]

After seeing the photo it does look like they simply ran into something.

Things usually float 'on the waterline' that explains the location.

Hell they may have run over a fishing boat and not even really know it.

In my sailing days one thing we knew was to give these tankers and container vessels a wide berth. Most of the time they arent even looking where the hell they are going.

even if they are looking it is not as if they can avoid you, those bastards arent known for manouverability

[UnderseaLcpl]

This is why... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brNX4xqlXJE)

I never knew there was a video of that joke.:rotfl2: Awesome:up:

[antikristuseke]

Good thing that incident didn't happen near the german coast http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmOTpIVxji8

[Tribesman]

The UAE now confirms there is residue from homemade explosives on the damaged section of the tanker.
So.... who, when, how and where?
There is one group who claimed reponsibility, but it is the sort of group that makes lots of false claims, they probably are claiming they caused the Israeli train crash on thursday.

[Oberon]

Strange blast damage...I mean...I guess if a guy in a little rubber boat blew himself up next to the ship then that could cause that kind of blast damage...but not a contact explosive...surely that would have caused a different kind of blast wave. :hmmm:

Strange. :hmmm: