Starting out with Silent Hunter 3

[LakatosI]

I recently came into contact with the subsim genre by watching a trailer and gameplay footage of Silent Hunter 5. I was really impressed by the graphics and gameplay, and instantly wanted to get my hands on it. Luckily I read about the high system requirements and the ocean of bugs that plague the game. I was really looking forward to be a part of the Battle for the Atlantic, which is why I decided to go for Silent Hunter 3 instead.

Now my only problem is with learning how to play decently on this damned thing :P Now I was thinking of starting out playing on 100% realism after completing the academy, trying to do everything manually, no updating marks on the map or anything, just to start off learning good habits and the science behind sinking ships :P However, I'm starting to have doubts regarding my approach, mainly because of the steep learning curve I would be about to face. So my question here is is what I'm trying to do feasible?

Also, I was wondering if anyone could point me to some tutorials covering the main aspects of the game, not covered in Naval Academy, or explaining more complex techniques, theories, etc. I found a link to Wazoo's tutorial (http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/#Introduction)here on the forum, however most of the links there pointing to the various handy mods are broken, so I was wondering if anyone could point me to a place where I can still download them?
And what's up with this elusive "Community Manual" that I see popping up on the forum, yet no decent link pointing to it.

I hope you can help out a poor noob in distress. I am literally amazed that despite the age of this game this community is still so active, although a bit "closed in", seeing that most of the information available isn't noob friendly because the link are outdated.

Anyways, Cheerio!

[maillemaker]

I recently came into contact with the subsim genre by watching a trailer and gameplay footage of Silent Hunter 5. I was really impressed by the graphics and gameplay, and instantly wanted to get my hands on it. Luckily I read about the high system requirements and the ocean of bugs that plague the game. I was really looking forward to be a part of the Battle for the Atlantic, which is why I decided to go for Silent Hunter 3 instead.

Now my only problem is with learning how to play decently on this damned thing :P Now I was thinking of starting out playing on 100% realism after completing the academy, trying to do everything manually, no updating marks on the map or anything, just to start off learning good habits and the science behind sinking ships :P However, I'm starting to have doubts regarding my approach, mainly because of the steep learning curve I would be about to face. So my question here is is what I'm trying to do feasible?

Also, I was wondering if anyone could point me to some tutorials covering the main aspects of the game, not covered in Naval Academy, or explaining more complex techniques, theories, etc. I found a link to Wazoo's tutorial (http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/#Introduction)here on the forum, however most of the links there pointing to the various handy mods are broken, so I was wondering if anyone could point me to a place where I can still download them?
And what's up with this elusive "Community Manual" that I see popping up on the forum, yet no decent link pointing to it.

I hope you can help out a poor noob in distress. I am literally amazed that despite the age of this game this community is still so active, although a bit "closed in", seeing that most of the information available isn't noob friendly because the link are outdated.

Anyways, Cheerio!

Welcome aboard!

One of the first things I would recommend is to download and install the GWX 3.0 megamod. This really makes SH3 a new game. I'd also recommend the Lifeboats and Debris mod, and the Torpdeo Damage Final mod.

GWX comes with this thing called JSGME which allows you to enable and disable mods with ease. You will need to use it to enable some of the mods that come with GWX but are not enabled by default, such as Enhanced Damage, and 16Km rendering. Of course the horsepower of your computer will dictate whether or not you want to enable some of these mods.

I run 100% realism, though with map updates still turned on.

An easy way to manually target ships is to use the Fixed Wire method. Fixed Wire negates the need to know the ship's range.

Here is fixed wire:

1) Turn sub on a heading just in front of target ship's track. Set scope bearing to 000.
2) As target ship's bow crosses the vertical reticule, start the stopwatch. As target ship's stern crosses the vertical reticule, stop the stopwatch.
3) Identify the target in the Ship Recognition Manual. This lists target length.
4) Determine target speed by the following forumla:

(Ship Length In Meters) * 1.94 / (Time in Seconds)

5) Go to TDC menu. Enable manual data entry. Dial in target speed. Set Angle on the Bow (AoB) to either 90 degrees port or starboard, depending on whether you are to the port or starboard of the target. Turn off TDC.
6) Go to scope. Set bearing until gyro angle is 000.
7) Go back to TDC. Turn on TDC. Tweak AoB back to 90 degrees. Turn off TDC.
8) Go back to scope. Tweak bearing until gyro is 000. Repeat 6-8 as necessary until you've got your TDC set to 90 degree AoB and your scope bearing gives you 000 gyro angle.
9) Open tube door(s). Wait for target to cross vertical reticule and fire.

The torpedo should strike the target where the vertical reticule was on the ship when you fired.

Some historical things I have learned here that you can observe or ignore:

1) Historical uboats only carried steamers in their external stores. The game lets you carry steamers or electrics externally.
2) Historically the periscope could only withstand the pressure of traveling at a couple of knots.

Sink 'em all!

Steve

[Gerald]

Good Hunting! :salute:

[Snestorm]

It may be a good idé for you to start with Weapons Officer Assist, and Contact Map Updates only On.

From this you can teach yourself what is involved with setting up an attack.

You can loose the Contact Map Updates after a patrol or two, as it doesn't take long to get a general picture.

When, and if, you loose the Weapons Officer Assist requires a judgement call from you.
It's the toughest crutch to give up, but it also raises the immersion the most.

I would reccoment that you stick with Stock SH3 to get the feel of things you do, and don't, like. Read the available literature about any mods you may become interested in. Sometimes fixes come at a price, so it's a good idé to learn as much as possible BEFORE making a decision.

GWX has a great downloadable manual. This is recommended reading, AFTER familiarizing yourself with the strengths, and weaknesses, of Stock SH3. There are also many small mods that may fill your requirements to the fullest. The choice is very individualistic, and should be yours alone.

(I'm an old school letter writer, not a modern chat room enthusiast.
Caps are for emphasis.)

Welcome aboard.

[JScones]

GWX comes with this thing called JSGME which allows you to enable and disable mods with ease. You will need to use it to enable some of the mods that come with GWX but are not enabled by default, such as Enhanced Damage, and 16Km rendering.
Yes, GWX has a license to distribute JSGME (an unrelated application). Pls keep in mind though that it is an old version, so the first thing to do is to update it to the latest version, available from my website, link below.

[sergei]

Welcome aboard. :salute:
Whilst I admire your commitment to just jump straight in at 100%, as you have discovered there is a steep learning curve.

Might I suggest playing some single missions at less than 100% first to get a good feel for the game?
As Snestorm has suggested, maybe start with map contacts and WE Assist on at first.
Then you can put all your concentration into getting into a good attack position, and evasion procedures after the attack.
Once you are comfortable with this, then maybe turn off the WE assist, so you have to calculate your own torpedo solution.
Finally turning map contacts off as the last step.

Just a suggestion mate :DL

When I started out I found 'The Hunt' to be a very useful link.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88961

Good Hunting Kaleun

[Pisces]

...
5) Go to TDC menu. Enable manual data entry. Dial in target speed. Set Angle on the Bow (AoB) to either 90 degrees port or starboard, depending on whether you are to the port or starboard of the target. Turn off TDC.
6) Go to scope. Set bearing until gyro angle is 000.
7) Go back to TDC. Turn on TDC. Tweak AoB back to 90 degrees. Turn off TDC.
8) Go back to scope. Tweak bearing until gyro is 000. Repeat 6-8 as necessary until you've got your TDC set to 90 degree AoB and your scope bearing gives you 000 gyro angle.
...Sorry Steve. That tweaking is not neccesary. IF the uboat is on a course perpendicular to the target's track, AND IF the periscope/UZO is pointed to 0, (both requirement which I highly advice to do with type 1 torpedos) THEN you should set the AOB dial to 90 port/starboard. If the uboat course is different, or periscope not on 0 (anymore), then 90 AOB is not correct. In any event the AOB dial should be set to whatever the target shows when he will be on the periscope line. (or the angle that follows from the mapdrawing) There is no tweaking neccesary, not even after the gyro angle is set to 0. Other than realising you made a mistake due to the visual image not matching at all. The change of the AOB dial because of it is automatically (assuming the TDC switch was indeed set to AUTO), and appropriate. Since when the gyro angle is set to 0, then the periscope is pointing away some degrees from 000 (and the AOB dial will correct for this), which is exactly the lead needed to make the torpedos arrive on time on target.

@LakatosI

I pretty quickly went over to GWX and the OLC series of GUI's. So I don't remember much of stock SH3. It's definately advisable not to set the realism level too high initially. Step up with progress through the learning curve. And allow yourself some means to show the good answer, like the mapcontact updates, or the free camera to show you how things went wrong.

The modifications I found most important when I started were bigger, better resolution speed, course and depth dials. And the mousecursor maptools. The better resolution is obvious why. It's difficult to set and read course. The mousecursor maptools are a big improvement over mapdrawing in SH1 or SH2/Destroyer Command. But it was still cumbersome to make lines in certain directions. You have to use the proctractor (angle/corner thingy) to set up an angle with reference to N,E,S,W. Most bigger mods now include a reversed compass scale, which allows you to start a line somwhere, draw out the line, and the line overlaps the angle on the reversed scale which you desire. Once you see it it works very intuitively. However, for some reason nobody ever felt the need to make all tools use such a reversed scale. That's why I made this:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=919104&postcount=1308

It uses JSGME and should work with all mods and flavours of SH3.

I also liked to have a nomograph to calculate speed/distance/time conversions (but now I mostly use this (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114351)), and a better resolution periscope bearing ribbon (1 degree/tick).

[EDIT]I learned the ropes too with 'The Hunt' threads. Together with Paul Wassoo's article. Must see for manual targerting rookies.

[maillemaker]

Sorry Steve. That tweaking is not neccesary. IF the uboat is on a course perpendicular to the target's track, AND IF the periscope/UZO is pointed to 0, (both requirement which I highly advice to do with type 1 torpedos) THEN you should set the AOB dial to 90 port/starboard. If the uboat course is different, or periscope not on 0 (anymore), then 90 AOB is not correct. In any event the AOB dial should be set to whatever the target shows when he will be on the periscope line. (or the angle that follows from the mapdrawing) There is no tweaking neccesary, not even after the gyro angle is set to 0. Other than realising you made a mistake due to the visual image not matching at all. The change of the AOB dial because of it is automatically (assuming the TDC switch was indeed set to AUTO), and appropriate. Since when the gyro angle is set to 0, then the periscope is pointing away some degrees from 000 (and the AOB dial will correct for this), which is exactly the lead needed to make the torpedos arrive on time on target.

So you're saying the Periscope should be set to bearing 000 before manually adjusting the TDC to AoB 90?

Steve

[maillemaker]

I'd say going 100% realism is really not that big a deal. Manual targeting using the Fixed Wire method is pretty easy.

I would recommend, though, keeping your external camera turned on. This will knock you down to 90% realism. The reason for this is 1) you get to see cool stuff! 2) You can get better situational awareness that helps overcome the fact that you are not actually physically in the simulation. You get a better sense of what your torpedoes are doing, what the ships are doing, and what things look like. After you get good you can turn off the external camera to make life harder for yourself.

I DO recommend, though, starting out in 1939. The game is much, much easier earlier in the war.

Steve

[Jimbuna]

Too much info at the off can make you dizzy so I'll simply advise you get used to the gameplay using stock/vanilla version for a career or two then give GWX£.0 and the host of additional mods a try.

Small steps, one at a time.

http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/welcome.gif

[Sailor Steve]

GWX£.0 and the host of additional mods a try.
I thought it was a free mod! :O: :rotfl2:

Jim's advice is good, though. There are dozens of ways to play the game, dozens of mods to make it very personal, and dozens of opinions on what constitutes 'realism'. Take your time. The game isn't going anywhere and you have plenty of time to explore all the possibilities.

Oh, and WELCOME ABOARD! :sunny:

[Jimbuna]

I thought it was a free mod! :O: :rotfl2:



LOL :DL









:oops:

[Tessa]

I'd say going 100% realism is really not that big a deal. Manual targeting using the Fixed Wire method is pretty easy.

I would recommend, though, keeping your external camera turned on. This will knock you down to 90% realism. The reason for this is 1) you get to see cool stuff! 2) You can get better situational awareness that helps overcome the fact that you are not actually physically in the simulation. You get a better sense of what your torpedoes are doing, what the ships are doing, and what things look like. After you get good you can turn off the external camera to make life harder for yourself.

I DO recommend, though, starting out in 1939. The game is much, much easier earlier in the war.

Steve

Two thumbs up for the external camera. Before would always have it turned off, this time around left it on largely to see the new massive overkill enhanced damage bodies flying everywhere mod. Wish I'd made some popcorn before enabling that the first time with the camera, some of the explosions, carnage and comedy are worth double the price of admission :up:

Choosing the start with the 13th in Koinsburg imo is the best starting option. Get to begin with a nice VIIB, plus your first patrol is (live) target practice well over a month before the start of the war. On good days you can make use of the deck gun, the rest of the time the weather is so lousy no escort ship makes the effort to go after you.

[Sgt_Raa]

Welcome aboard:salute:

[Pisces]

So you're saying the Periscope should be set to bearing 000 before manually adjusting the TDC to AoB 90?

SteveYes, assuming you are perpendicular, or will be at the time of firing. And, if you are shooting with the front tubes. 180 if using the rear tubes. Any turn with the scope wil show the same adjustment on the AOB dial.

[maillemaker]

Yes, assuming you are perpendicular, or will be at the time of firing. And, if you are shooting with the front tubes. 180 if using the rear tubes. Any turn with the scope wil show the same adjustment on the AOB dial.

Well I tried it last night, and I'm not seeing it.

My scope was set to zero bearing. I went to the TDC and set it to 90 AoB , and dialed in the speed.

Went to scope view and turned until the gyro read 000, but then noticed that the AoB was no longer at 90 (because of turning the scope to get 000 gyro). So I turned the TDC back on and dialed it back to 90 AoB, then turned it off and turned scope to get 000 gyro again, and so on, until I finally get 90 AoB combined with the scope pointing at 000 gyro.

This usually results with the scope at a bearing of 10 degrees to port or starboard of 000, which results in the correct amount of lead for the current torpedo speed setting to hit ships that cross my 000 bearing at 90 degrees.

Steve

[Pisces]

Well I tried it last night, and I'm not seeing it.

My scope was set to zero bearing. I went to the TDC and set it to 90 AoB , and dialed in the speed.

Went to scope view and turned until the gyro read 000, but then noticed that the AoB was no longer at 90 (because of turning the scope to get 000 gyro). So I turned the TDC back on and dialed it back to 90 AoB, then turned it off and turned scope to get 000 gyro again, and so on, until I finally get 90 AoB combined with the scope pointing at 000 gyro.

This usually results with the scope at a bearing of 10 degrees to port or starboard of 000, which results in the correct amount of lead for the current torpedo speed setting to hit ships that cross my 000 bearing at 90 degrees.

SteveI think you are under the mistaken impression that the AOB dial should show 90 degrees at the time of firing, in the end. That is not true. You want the AOB dial and the periscope bearing to show the propper course difference when you look at the impact point (which is bearing 000 in this case because you want the torpedos to move straight out of the tubes).

When you have moved the periscope to make the gyro angle 000, then the AOB dial has shifted about 5-15 degrees depending on the target speed. This is how it should be. Since you are not looking at the impact point anymore, but some place before his doom meets him. And so also the place where he still shows some small angle on his front windscreen or bridge. Also, you mention you have to repeatedly 'correct' the AOB and notice that this makes the gyro angle goes off as a result. This succesive aproximation to get it right is a sign that it's not the way to go about it. Really, set the AOB dial once to the correct angle and then aim. (directly at the target or some place in the future) That's all that is needed.

You may have hit targets anyway with your current procedure. But due to the probably short range, and this 90 degree setup(which gives the most margin for error) you won't notice that it is wrong. Hits to longer distances you'll be less succesfull. It's your choice, but the propper way is just simpler.

[maillemaker]

OK, then I'm confused about the whole fixed wire thing then.

What should I set the AoB to for fixed wire shooting? 90 degrees, right?

Are you saying I should set the periscope to 000 bearing, then set the AoB to 90, and then adjust the scope to 000 gyro, letting the AoB be whatever at that point?

Steve

[Pisces]

OK, then I'm confused about the whole fixed wire thing then.

What should I set the AoB to for fixed wire shooting? 90 degrees, right?

Are you saying I should set the periscope to 000 bearing, then set the AoB to 90, and then adjust the scope to 000 gyro, letting the AoB be whatever at that point?

SteveNo, the fixed wire thing has nothing to do with what I wrote previously. It's just a speed measurement procedure. Nothing to do with setting up AOB in relation to your periscope bearings. You described the fixed wire procedure correctly.

If you want to set for a perpendicular attack, and have the torpedos move straight out of the tube you do the following:

1: set course 90 degrees to the target's course. (make sure you're ahead)
2: set periscope to 0 (or 180 if you use aft torpedos)
3: go to tdc panel (F6)
4: flip the tdc switch to manual (!!! don't move the periscope/UZO until the switch is set back)
5: set the AOB dial to 90 (arrow points to whichever direction it will pass through the scope view TO ; left to right means arrow to right)
6: set the target speed if not done allready
7: set TDC switch back to auto
8: swing periscope or UZO until gyro angle reads 0
9: set torpedodepth, salvo, open torpedo doors etc..., check what Bernard has been upto (... in other words, double check yourself )

If the torpedo speed or target speed was set incorrectly repeat step 8.

10: wait for the target to cross the line with the juicy parts, and fire.

That's all folks.

[maillemaker]

No, the fixed wire thing has nothing to do with what I wrote previously. It's just a speed measurement procedure. Nothing to do with setting up AOB in relation to your periscope bearings. You described the fixed wire procedure correctly.

You're right, of course, I misspoke.

OK, I have tried it now, and I think I understand better what is going on.

First, I set my uboat to a 90 degree intercept with target track.

Then I set my scope to 000 HEADING.

Then I manually set TDC to 90 degree AoB and correct target speed and turn off TDC.

Then I go to the scope and turn to 000 GYRO.

The last step provides target "lead" from 000 bearing of my u-boat. Whatever that lead angle is (usually 10-15 degrees, I guess this depends on the speed of the torpedo), the AoB is deflected from 90 by the same amount.

What this indicates to me is that the AoB is NOT 90 degrees at the time of firing. It is 90 degrees at the time of impact.

Correct?

[Pisces]

You're right, of course, I misspoke.

OK, I have tried it now, and I think I understand better what is going on.

First, I set my uboat to a 90 degree intercept with target track.

Then I set my scope to 000 HEADING.

Then I manually set TDC to 90 degree AoB and correct target speed and turn off TDC.

Then I go to the scope and turn to 000 GYRO.

The last step provides target "lead" from 000 bearing of my u-boat. Whatever that lead angle is (usually 10-15 degrees, I guess this depends on the speed of the torpedo), the AoB is deflected from 90 by the same amount.

What this indicates to me is that the AoB is NOT 90 degrees at the time of firing. It is 90 degrees at the time of impact.

Correct?Yup, correct if you don't forget to set the TDC switch back (before moving the scope). :up:

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

If you're like me when I first went manual targetting, you're scratching your head wondering what these guys above me are prattling on about.

My advice (for what it's worth)

Start simple. Start with a stock game. Worry about mods etc later. Don't worry about manual targetting until you better understand how to position your boat. Stock SH III has little triangles that change colour depending on how "good" your torp shot is lined up. Close to 90 degrees (for impact) is ideal (and green). 90 - 45 degrees is better for an under-keel magnetic shot (and yellow). Anything beyond that is red, and means it's a bad shot.

Start by concentrating on visually identifying ships, let the game highlight the "weak spots" in the recognition manual when you have a perfect solution, and dance a bit in your chair as the ship breaks in half and sinks.

Slowly wind your way up the realism levels as you either feel more confident, or feel that it's getting too easy. Limit your CO2 and Fuel, enable realistic ship sinking times, get rid of the noise meter etc.

Only make the jump to GWX when you're ready to go fully manual targeting. GWX is a whole new gameplan, and if you're not ready you may feel like you're floundering. The learning curve is less steep if you have a strong grasp of the basics beforehand.

And don't feel bad about starting the game easy. Everyone else did.

[flag4]

I recently came into contact with the subsim genre by watching a trailer and gameplay footage of Silent Hunter 5. I was really impressed by the graphics and gameplay, and instantly wanted to get my hands on it. Luckily I read about the high system requirements and the ocean of bugs that plague the game. I was really looking forward to be a part of the Battle for the Atlantic, which is why I decided to go for Silent Hunter 3 instead.

Now my only problem is with learning how to play decently on this damned thing :P Now I was thinking of starting out playing on 100% realism after completing the academy, trying to do everything manually, no updating marks on the map or anything, just to start off learning good habits and the science behind sinking ships :P However, I'm starting to have doubts regarding my approach, mainly because of the steep learning curve I would be about to face. So my question here is is what I'm trying to do feasible?

Also, I was wondering if anyone could point me to some tutorials covering the main aspects of the game, not covered in Naval Academy, or explaining more complex techniques, theories, etc. I found a link to Wazoo's tutorial (http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/#Introduction)here on the forum, however most of the links there pointing to the various handy mods are broken, so I was wondering if anyone could point me to a place where I can still download them?
And what's up with this elusive "Community Manual" that I see popping up on the forum, yet no decent link pointing to it.

I hope you can help out a poor noob in distress. I am literally amazed that despite the age of this game this community is still so active, although a bit "closed in", seeing that most of the information available isn't noob friendly because the link are outdated.

Anyways, Cheerio!

LakatosI, welcome! you are at the best place - here at Subsim.

all the above advice i can not add to coz its spot on.
as others have said....take it easssy. dont panik. AND be very very patient with yourself. ask lots of questions too. there is no such thing as a silly question when you are starting out.

Bon Voyage :salute:

[Canovaro]

Hi and welcome aboard.

I admire you for taking the 100% realism right from the start.
To help out I made a collection of charts and tactics and stuff a couple of months ago:

http://subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1487

Have fun, full realism is the way to enjoy the game the most imo.

[pickinthebanjo]

Use a good GUI mod, they are for the most part designed for manual targeting. I use ACM Reloaded, it helped.

[Brag]

For in game tactics, lots of people have found my Kielman website useful:salute:

[Herr-Berbunch]

For in game tactics, lots of people have found my Kielman website useful:salute:

Sure did, thanks Brag :D