[UNCOVERED] SH5 officially left for dead!

[urfisch]

As the new ComDev stated and elenaiba confirmed, there is no more team working on a patch for SH5. Both call the community to get hand on mods, to enhance the game. There is no patch planned "so far". Seems, as if our badest exspectations become true...

BAAM, there it is. The truth, directly in your face.

:o

:nope:

Let me finish this and say it like Michael did:

(SH5) This is it.

[Arclight]

And this is news how? Think most already knew there's no team assigned to SH5.

Doesn't mean that won't change in the future.

[aergistal]

The news is SH5 is now like Schrödinger's cat. It is both alive and dead until proven one way or another. It's statements like Ubisoft's that make the universe branch :DL

[Takeda Shingen]

Old news.

[karamazovnew]

I wouldn't go scaring children like that :-?

Truth is, I've seen lots of buggy games cut from patch support. And I still can't forgive Ubi for not patching the spawning road blocks in Far Cry 2. Then there's Sh4 UBM with a buggy notepad and stadimeter, easy things to fix by the devs, but which were never fixed.

However, with all the "Silent Hunter is dead" threads and most modders jumping overboard or simply waiting for the next patch, Ubi's notorious "case closed" policy seems a bit more expected. That must be why Elanaiba and Sorlim urge us to continue to mod the game. With a bit more support from us and a more clear view of the bugs, they might persuade the suits to release another patch.

And, on the bright side, progress with SH5 mods has been stunning so far. I'm beginning to subscribe to the opinion that one year from now, SH5 will be
better than all previous titles (with mods ofc).

[Webster]

i think guys are just searching for some direct quote somewhere saying "i am official ubi spokesman and we will never fix sh5 and thats it"

its obvious to anyone who looks at it without the rose colored glasses that they are done with sh5 and what we have is all we will ever get but they will never admit that to the public (its just bad for buisness to admit it)

hoping for another patch is like hoping to win the lottery, we try to convince ourselves it could happen because there is a 0.00001% chance it might

[SteelViking]

I wouldn't go scaring children like that :-?

Truth is, I've seen lots of buggy games cut from patch support. And I still can't forgive Ubi for not patching the spawning road blocks in Far Cry 2. Then there's Sh4 UBM with a buggy notepad and stadimeter, easy things to fix by the devs, but which were never fixed.

However, with all the "Silent Hunter is dead" threads and most modders jumping overboard or simply waiting for the next patch, Ubi's notorious "case closed" policy seems a bit more expected. That must be why Elanaiba and Sorlim urge us to continue to mod the game. With a bit more support from us and a more clear view of the bugs, they might persuade the suits to release another patch.

And, on the bright side, progress with SH5 mods has been stunning so far. I'm beginning to subscribe to the opinion that one year from now, SH5 will be
better than all previous titles (with mods ofc).

Aye its true. The advancements made over the past couple weeks have been incredible. People just need to be a little more patient though, as some of them are still behind the scenes and need to be perfected.

[Webster]

after re-reading my comment i feel its important to add this:

sh5 will be a great game at some point even without ubi being involved in it anymore.

IMO it is the modders who made ubi games great and sh5 will be fixed by modders so its only a matter of giving them time.

in a year or two i think there will be a few mega mod choices that resolve "most" issues with the game and while there will still be major bugs and glitches due to ubi's unfinished work, the mods will make the rest good enough to overlook them.

[janh]

only the future will tell, but the latest signs showed at least a glimmer of hope... So patience will be required, as usual.

[Bubblehead1980]

Well if they are finished patching it, then they need to release one thing, a fix for DRM so can play the game offline and lets the mods(who do better work anyway) have at it.

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

So, lemmie get this straight. They released a half-baked sim and patches you can count on one hand and they abandoned it? And to think I paid money for it. I'm calling my lawyers.:D:D

[Onkel Neal]

SH5: Released to soon, killed by the "fans".

[wingcom]

the real problem is gonna be a year from now when they decide the DRM servers are taking up too much space for so few players. then asta la vista online baby. Hello dark side.

[Takeda Shingen]

the real problem is gonna be a year from now when they decide the DRM servers are taking up too much space for so few players. then asta la vista online baby. Hello dark side.

No, it has been repeatedly stated that the game will be patched to allow offline play should the online servers be discontinued. Nothing to worry about in that case.

[MGR1]

No, it has been repeatedly stated that the game will be patched to allow offline play should the online servers be discontinued. Nothing to worry about in that case.

That, unfortunately, is when I'm likely to buy it. :down: If it wasn't for a "certain issue" I'd have bought it by now.

A pity, as it looks as though it'll be a fine U-Boat sim once the modders have given it a thorough makeover.:up:

Mike.:)

[krashkart]

SH5: Released to soon, killed by the "fans".

So it would seem.

[THE_MASK]

SH5: Released to soon, killed by the "fans".The truest statement ever on subsim . However modding and sales might bring back the dead in the future .

[jdkbph]

Aye its true. The advancements made over the past couple weeks have been incredible. People just need to be a little more patient though, as some of them are still behind the scenes and need to be perfected.

You know, I really appreciate the efforts made by the talented folks in this community. Most of the mods are very good - as good as we've seen from the professional devs - and some of them far surpass anything we've seen form the professionals.

My concern with SH5 is not about what can be done by modders, but what can't be done. If there are significant issues with SH5 that simply can't be fixed due to lack of access (legally or technically) to the affected files and code, then I would guess most of the modders will be asking themselves "what's the point?".

Some of these significant issues that no one (to my knowledge) has touched yet are:



Extending the campaign to 1945, which would necessarily require development or activation of the relevant techology, platforms and AI.
Building and importing new platforms, such as more merchant types (what do we have now... 4?)
Rewriting the campaign to remove the mission, target and tonnage based objectives, and restore the free flowing patrol based campaigns of SH3 and SH4.
AI that behaves in a reasonably believable manner.
Etc.

If that stuff can't be fixed, I'm never going to play it... no matter how good the water and sky look or how great the latest interface is (with apologies to those working on interfaces and environment).

JD

[SteelViking]

You know, I really appreciate the efforts made by the talented folks in this community. Most of the mods are very good - as good as we've seen from the professional devs - and some of them far surpass anything we've seen form the professionals.

My concern with SH5 is not about what can be done by modders, but what can't be done. If there are significant issues with SH5 that simply can't be fixed due to lack of access (legally or technically) to the affected files and code, then I would guess most of the modders will be asking themselves "what's the point?".

Some of these significant issues that no one (to my knowledge) has touched yet are:



Extending the campaign to 1945, which would necessarily require development or activation of the relevant techology, platforms and AI.
Building and importing new platforms, such as more merchant types (what do we have now... 4?)
Rewriting the campaign to remove the mission, target and tonnage based objectives, and restore the free flowing patrol based campaigns of SH3 and SH4.
AI that behaves in a reasonably believable manner.
Etc.

If that stuff can't be fixed, I'm never going to play it... no matter how good the water and sky look or how great the latest interface is (with apologies to those working on interfaces and environment).

JD

Well, the AI has essentially been fixed by TDW. He has already completely redone the AI for ships and planes, and he is currently working on redoing the AI subs. However, the rest of the problems you outlined are currently untouched, and they are definitely among my list of problems with the game as well.

What is the word on editing the campaign? I hate to say it, but I am out of the loop on that one.

[THE_MASK]

Some of these significant issues that no one (to my knowledge) has touched yet are:



Rewriting the campaign to remove the mission, target and tonnage based objectives, and restore the free flowing patrol based campaigns of SH3 and SH4.
If that stuff can't be fixed, I'm never going to play it... no matter how good the water and sky look or how great the latest interface is (with apologies to those working on interfaces and environment).

JDSH5 already has the boring go to patrol area , exactly the same as SH3/4 . What it also has is a fun and challenging dynamic campaign with dynamic objectives . There is no way i would ever go back to the boring patrol here only like in SH3/4 .

[Will-Rommel]

Yeah me too sober. The game really is more fun and challenging to me when going to sea with a clear objective.

[John Channing]

Like they did in real life.

I don't understand why people don't like historical accuracy in a simulation.

:03:

JCC

[jdkbph]

Seroiusly... like in real life? I may be misinformed, but in all I've read about sub warfare in both major theaters, I don't recall captains being dispatched with orders to sink X tons, or to hunt and sink X number of battleships or cruisers before a specific date.

I may be wrong but to the best of my recollection subs were assigned patrol areas and told to hunt. At best they were given orders to target specific, broad category ship types, such as merchants, or warships.

Barring an occasional SpecOps type mission, or later on in the PTO, being assigned to "lifeguard" duty (usually a detour or interruption on the way to or from a patrol area), I really don't see how the campaign in SH5 - out of the box - can be viewed as anything other than a "lets jazz things up for arcade game crowd" type of implementation. The only thing missing is power-ups and health packs.

Yeah, it may be more fun and challenging, but real? No. Sorry.

JD

[Madox58]

BBW did massive amounts of work on the Campaign files.
But took the summer off waiting for Units to be imported.

I'm busy creating Add-ons for S3d that allow working with SH5 Controllers
in S3D, along with other Tools all may need.
This will allow new Ships to be imported by the masses that use S3D.

We do what we can, when we can, as fast as we can.
Even when we are working with less then minimum system specs.

[longam]

SH5: Released to soon, killed by the "fans".

Seems to be a ME ME world anymore.

[John Channing]

Seroiusly... like in real life? I may be misinformed, but in all I've read about sub warfare in both major theaters, I don't recall captains being dispatched with orders to sink X tons, or to hunt and sink X number of battleships or cruisers before a specific date.

I may be wrong but to the best of my recollection subs were assigned patrol areas and told to hunt. At best they were given orders to target specific, broad category ship types, such as merchants, or warships.

Barring an occasional SpecOps type mission, or later on in the PTO, being assigned to "lifeguard" duty (usually a detour or interruption on the way to or from a patrol area), I really don't see how the campaign in SH5 - out of the box - can be viewed as anything other than a "lets jazz things up for arcade game crowd" type of implementation. The only thing missing is power-ups and health packs.

Yeah, it may be more fun and challenging, but real? No. Sorry.

JD

Then you had better read some more.

During the Norwegian campaign Sub commanders were specifically ordered to concentrate on Naval vessels and, if necessary, to ignore merchant shipping.

As I said in aother thread, given the Doenitz knew exactly how much tonnage he had to sink on a monthly basis to bring England to surrender, and given that he had around 40 operational U-Boats, do you really think he told the commanders just to go out to Grid X and see what you can find? Do you think his orders to Prien was to drop by Scapa Flow and have a quick look see?

Of course they had mission requirements.

JCC

[Faamecanic]

What is the word on editing the campaign? I hate to say it, but I am out of the loop on that one.


Please please PULLLEZE someone mod the horrible campaign we were left with.

If you do.... this little puppy will give you a BIG LICK!!

http://www.synthstuff.com/mt/archives/ugly-dog.jpg

[Ducimus]

Silent Hunter 5
http://velossus.com/app/webroot/img/left_4_dead.jpg
"The Hold Out crowd"
No Patch's, No super Mod's, No problem.

[jdkbph]

Then you had better read some more.

During the Norwegian campaign Sub commanders were specifically ordered to concentrate on Naval vessels and, if necessary, to ignore merchant shipping.


Then here we're agreed. Broad category target types, such as merchants or warships... as I stated.

We may want to start our "reading" by reading the post we're replying to, eh? :)


As I said in aother thread, given the Doenitz knew exactly how much tonnage he had to sink on a monthly basis to bring England to surrender, and given that he had around 40 operational U-Boats, do you really think he told the commanders just to go out to Grid X and see what you can find?I would expect a bit more in the way of verbal encouragement, but words to that effect, yes.

What you're referring to is a strategic not an operational consideration. That would place it even above Doenitz' position at the start of the war. At Doentiz' level (operational), the task was to create the appropriate doctrine, ensure an adequate level of training, then to position his assets at the right place and at the right time in order to satisfy his directives. If planned and executed correctly, and given the required resources, the required tonnage would be sunk.

That it didn't happen historically is in no way an indictment of the u-boat crews (ie, failed missions), or even of Doenitz himself. If blame needs be placed, it would have to be laid at the door step of the pre and early war naval planners (Hitler, Raeder, et al). Clearly the resources were not adequate to the task given Doenitz early in the war, and from there the strategic priorities and subsequent investment in the u-boat arm did not permit the technology or the numbers to keep pace with the allies.

So no... I stand by what I said. At the individual unit level this kind of thing (go to location X and sink Y tons) just didn't happen. It most certainly was not the norm, as it is portrayed in SH5.

Now, if you have credible references to the contrary I'd be happy to stand corrected.

Do you think his orders to Prien was to drop by Scapa Flow and have a quick look see?Do you think he had orders to sink Royal Oak? Did he even have orders to sink a battleship (specifically)? Would he have returned again and again to get Royal Oak, or some other battleship (specifically, if he missed the first time? What if he had sunk Courageous or Ark Royal instead? Would that have been a "mission failure"?

Sorry, but from an historical perspective, this just doesn't play.

And neither does SH5.

JD

[Kapitanleutnant]

I may be wrong
You're not wrong. The subsim staff just have battered wife syndrome and will defend SH5 to the hilt, including making excuses for its failure with disingenuous and intellectually dishonest arguments.

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

This sim is dead and buried. I really wanted to enjoy it but even the mods I installed can't help it. The only kudos I can give is to the modders who tried their best.:wah:

[FIREWALL]

BBW did massive amounts of work on the Campaign files.
But took the summer off waiting for Units to be imported.

I'm busy creating Add-ons for S3d that allow working with SH5 Controllers
in S3D, along with other Tools all may need.
This will allow new Ships to be imported by the masses that use S3D.

We do what we can, when we can, as fast as we can.
Even when we are working with less then minimum system specs.

Most don't bother to read yours and other SH5 modders posts.

They jump to the bottom of the thread without reading and play the lame comedian or bring THEIR negitivity.

I have since reaquired SH5 and am looking forward to the future.

I for one am looking forward to your work. Thx Privateer :salute:

[SteelViking]

Then you had better read some more.

During the Norwegian campaign Sub commanders were specifically ordered to concentrate on Naval vessels and, if necessary, to ignore merchant shipping.

As I said in aother thread, given the Doenitz knew exactly how much tonnage he had to sink on a monthly basis to bring England to surrender, and given that he had around 40 operational U-Boats, do you really think he told the commanders just to go out to Grid X and see what you can find? Do you think his orders to Prien was to drop by Scapa Flow and have a quick look see?

Of course they had mission requirements.

JCC

I have to side with jdkbph on this one John. My research/reading does not point to specific missions being assigned very often if at all. Mostly it was assignments to a specific patrol grid. Of course, those patrol areas were not just random, they would be in major shipping lanes. And, as you stated sometimes they were assigned to combat warships.

So, I suppose what would be the most realistic would be a sort of mix of the two systems. Perhaps they(bdu) could give you a strategically placed patrol grid, and give you instructions on whether you are to concentrate on merchants or warships(and it could get a bit more specific).

However, the idea of being assigned to sink 2 battle ships here, sink 1 aircraft carrier there, now sink 100,000 of shipping in this other place, is not realistic by any means.

You're not wrong. The subsim staff just have battered wife syndrome and will defend SH5 to the hilt, including making excuses for its failure with disingenuous and intellectually dishonest arguments.

Statements like this are absolutely not called for. This does not help anyone's case. John, who puts his time and effort into making this a better place for all of us to communicate especially does not deserve to be insulted like this.:nope: His research could very well support exactly what he is saying, mine does not, but that does not make either of us disingenuous.

[Jan Kyster]

Then you had better read some more.Sorry for the OT... :D

- but couldn't resist because of the guesswork re. what BdU wanted or not. Do you know the entire BdU War Log has been compiled?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2199433/UBoat-Movements-1939-to-1945


Here you'll find all orders to each and every boat during the entire campaign (RL, not UBI) day-by-day.



Enjoy. It's only some 2500 pages... :D

Note it can be downloaded in PDF, Word and plain text.

[Madox58]

If SH5 is 'REALLY DEAD?"
Shouldn't this be moved to the
Wait for it.............
Drum roll please........
:o

SubSim Army of Zombies
thread?
:rock:

[krashkart]

If SH5 is 'REALLY DEAD?"
Shouldn't this be moved to the
Wait for it.............
Drum roll please........
:o

SubSim Army of Zombies
thread?
:rock:

Technically it's not quite dead yet, hasn't died and therefore has not yet had the chance to become undead. :hmmm:

OTOH this provides a great opportunity for further comedic segue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grbSQ6O6kbs

:yeah:

[JScones]

Do you know the entire BdU War Log has been compiled?
And don't forget interrogation reports and U-boat KTBs (http://uboatarchive.net/). They are a great source of information on things like wolfpack tactics, dive sequences, watch information, operations (some nice special missions as well), daily menus etc etc. Some great stuff. Pity the devs didn't use them. Anyway, the common theme insofar as patrol orders is this:

-U-boat gets assigned an operational area
-U-boat goes to said operational area
-U-boat receives orders from Doenitz (ie, move to new area; attack convoy just north of your operational area; hold/observe/report)
-U-boat rinses and repeats

Yes, of course there were "special missions" and some of the spy dropping and document running missions are interesting reads. Likewise the ones where they open their sealed orders midway (ie, "proceed to La Spezia" kinda stuff). But these were not the norm. For example, the Spanish Agency reported the sighting of "Renown", "Furious" and a second aircraft-carrier in Gibraltar. U-138 was given sealed orders to attack the ships and/or any cruiser it found there. SEALED orders, not "Meh, this time you need to sink these 3 big warships in Gibraltar" orders (just think of the breach of security in doing this).

BTW: By all accounts Prien's orders were primarily to infiltrate Scapa Flow for propaganda and disruptive purposes. He was not tasked with specifically sinking The Royal Oak, just told that there were plenty of targets to go for. I can't imagine the sinking of an obsolete WWI battleship as being anything other than a target of opportunity supporting the primary aim of the mission.

[Webster]

You're not wrong. The subsim staff just have battered wife syndrome and will defend SH5 to the hilt, including making excuses for its failure with disingenuous and intellectually dishonest arguments.

comments like this are very uncalled for.

while subsim has often had possitive things to say about sh5 they certainly have no axe to grind and stand to gain nothing by missleading anyone.

while i think neals comment of sh5 failure is caused by the fans sounded unfair because the "fans" didnt ask for or create the DRM which was the reason it had such bad sales so the largest blame for failure goes to THAT.

but i think he was refering to the great negativity expressed about the game which i agree is probably the thing that killed any desire ubi may have had to continue support if that is indeed what has happened.


EDIT:

heck here in the USA they just reported this when Apple released its new gadget phone:

only 60% of the US has high speed internet or slightly slower connections
25% have dial-up connection only
15% of the US market has no cable or internet connection other the DSL where available

so that means only 60% of the USA had the possibility to be a customer if they wanted too. now thats an old can of worms but making your product unusable to half your potential customers is what killed sh5 IMO

NOTE - (i may be slightly off on the percentages but if i am its not by much)

[Madox58]

Technically it's not quite dead yet, hasn't died and therefore has not yet had the chance to become undead. :hmmm:

:yeah:
Now your makeing my head hurt!
:doh:

In some threads. SH5 is dead.
In others, SH5 is not dead.
In yet others we are reviveing SH5.
:hmmm:

So..........
By definition.....
SH5 is UnDead!
Zombie!!!!
:rock:

[krashkart]

Now your makeing my head hurt!
:doh:

In some threads. SH5 is dead.
In others, SH5 is not dead.
In yet others we are reviveing SH5.
:hmmm:

So..........
By definition.....
SH5 is UnDead!
Zombie!!!!
:rock:

I submit to your superior powers of observation and.. um... mentali... -tude. Yeah, mentalitude.

-edness. :yep:

I r English teh knows-how. :smug:

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

They jump to the bottom of the thread without reading and play the lame comedian or bring THEIR negitivity.


HEY, I RESENT THAT!

I really like the SH series but in reality the devs didn't do the series justice by giving us SH5 like this. I dunno but it feels like a rush job and the dev team moving on so quickly after. I also have this feeling that negative comments get to walk the plank. If so make sure at least I get a cigarette.:D But I did take my Prozac...How's that for a lame joke.

[Placoderm]

Then you had better read some more.

During the Norwegian campaign Sub commanders were specifically ordered to concentrate on Naval vessels and, if necessary, to ignore merchant shipping.

As I said in aother thread, given the Doenitz knew exactly how much tonnage he had to sink on a monthly basis to bring England to surrender, and given that he had around 40 operational U-Boats, do you really think he told the commanders just to go out to Grid X and see what you can find? Do you think his orders to Prien was to drop by Scapa Flow and have a quick look see?

Of course they had mission requirements.

JCC

John, with all due respect, you and others keep bringing up this "Norwegian Campaign" as justification for SH5's myopic attention towards capitol ships...but in reality the 'campaign' was barely a footnote in the overall u-boat war both because of it's utter failure as a strategic doctrine and moreso because it was far, far from what most uboats were tasked to do. (quite frankly because of it's very failure to be of any use in helping the war effort)

Uboats were in virtually every other case specifically ordered to avoid any and all warships unless circumstances prevented otherwise. It was just too dangerous, and the uboats were too valuable to waste on such strategicall useless targets. Doenitz was trying to strangle England by cutting off it's supplies...not by attrition of it's warships. The fact that he was forced to do so with so few submarines (fewer than 15 on station at any one time when the war broke out) meant that he could not risk any unnecessary encounters with warships...he needed to stop the flow of goods into the UK. Doenitz did not have to sink ship tonnage to win the war...he had to sink supply tonnage. The ships that carried those supplies were just a means to an end.

The raid at Scapa Flow was not so that Prien could sink The Royal Oak...but was rather designed to be a psycological blow to both the people of Britain and it's navy. It would have been just as successful and probably just as historically significant if Prein had only sunk a few destroyers or barges...because the key was not what he sunk, but the mere idea that he was able to penetrate the defenses of the port that was the pride and the core of the Royal Navy.

There just is no intellectually honest way to defend SH5 on it's historical merits. It has none.

What SH5 does have is the finest graphics ever to grace a submarine game. It has beautiful water and gorgeous 3D modeling. It is gorgeously ambient, stunningly immersive, and captivating to the imagination. It portrays in ways never before acheived a sense of being there on the high seas in a tiny metal tube with the wind and the spray in your hair and purpose in your heart to return to base victorious!

In those ways, SH5 does what it does best.

But please don't kid yourself in thinking that there is anything historical about it. The dates are wrong, the targets are incorrect, the missions and the goals are nothing but pure fantasy. SH5 is to history what Star Trek is to science...it is exciting and inspiring, but eventually you have to come home from the convention, take off the pointy ears, and come to the realization that it was all just pretend and make-believe. There is no magic soup, and submarines never 'raced' to save the Bismark...One-eyed first officers stayed in port, and submarines were sent to destroy supplies, not taskforces.

I have learned to accept SH5 for what it is...not for what I wished it was. I had wished it would be a historical simulator. I accept that it is a very beautiful game.

It is easier to accept that simple truth than it is to re-write history.


:cool:

[Madox58]

There are times when I wish I could cook all the
'Negativity Stuff' up and inject it!

When I see 'It can be done'
in any shape or form?
It's better then a pot of Kpt.'s coffee!

Some people are going to be SOOOO
kissing backside sooner or later!
:har:

[SteelViking]

It can be done.:salute:

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

HA I just love all this. While Ubi is enjoying all of our money, we're here killing each other. Ain't the gaming industry just grand?

[THE_MASK]

There are times when I wish I could cook all the
'Negativity Stuff' up and inject it!

When I see 'It can be done'
in any shape or form?
It's better then a pot of Kpt.'s coffee!

Some people are going to be SOOOO
kissing backside sooner or later!
:har:Dan and co had the foresight to give us the tools , i just wish there was someway for the few diehards to give you a computer so you can actually play and mod SH5 .

[Sailor Steve]

BTW: By all accounts Prien's orders were primarily to infiltrate Scapa Flow for propaganda and disruptive purposes. He was not tasked with specifically sinking The Royal Oak, just told that there were plenty of targets to go for. I can't imagine the sinking of an obsolete WWI battleship as being anything other than a target of opportunity supporting the primary aim of the mission.
Also don't forget that Doenitz himself analyzed the aerial photographs and hand-picked Prien for the job. That didn't happen often, if it ever happened again.

Virtually all kaleuns were indeed given orders to "go here and hunt". SH3's campaign (modded) is nigh-on perfect.

[JScones]

John, with all due respect, you and others keep bringing up this "Norwegian Campaign" as justification for SH5's myopic attention towards capitol ships...but in reality the 'campaign' was barely a footnote in the overall u-boat war both because of it's utter failure as a strategic doctrine and moreso because it was far, far from what most uboats were tasked to do. (quite frankly because of it's very failure to be of any use in helping the war effort)

Uboats were in virtually every other case specifically ordered to avoid any and all warships unless circumstances prevented otherwise. It was just too dangerous, and the uboats were too valuable to waste on such strategicall useless targets. Doenitz was trying to strangle England by cutting off it's supplies...not by attrition of it's warships. The fact that he was forced to do so with so few submarines (fewer than 15 on station at any one time when the war broke out) meant that he could not risk any unnecessary encounters with warships...he needed to stop the flow of goods into the UK. Doenitz did not have to sink ship tonnage to win the war...he had to sink supply tonnage. The ships that carried those supplies were just a means to an end.

The raid at Scapa Flow was not so that Prien could sink The Royal Oak...but was rather designed to be a psycological blow to both the people of Britain and it's navy. It would have been just as successful and probably just as historically significant if Prein had only sunk a few destroyers or barges...because the key was not what he sunk, but the mere idea that he was able to penetrate the defenses of the port that was the pride and the core of the Royal Navy.

There just is no intellectually honest way to defend SH5 on it's historical merits. It has none.

What SH5 does have is the finest graphics ever to grace a submarine game. It has beautiful water and gorgeous 3D modeling. It is gorgeously ambient, stunningly immersive, and captivating to the imagination. It portrays in ways never before acheived a sense of being there on the high seas in a tiny metal tube with the wind and the spray in your hair and purpose in your heart to return to base victorious!

In those ways, SH5 does what it does best.

But please don't kid yourself in thinking that there is anything historical about it. The dates are wrong, the targets are incorrect, the missions and the goals are nothing but pure fantasy. SH5 is to history what Star Trek is to science...it is exciting and inspiring, but eventually you have to come home from the convention, take off the pointy ears, and come to the realization that it was all just pretend and make-believe. There is no magic soup, and submarines never 'raced' to save the Bismark...One-eyed first officers stayed in port, and submarines were sent to destroy supplies, not taskforces.

I have learned to accept SH5 for what it is...not for what I wished it was. I had wished it would be a historical simulator. I accept that it is a very beautiful game.

It is easier to accept that simple truth than it is to re-write history.


:cool:
QFT. Brilliantly put. :up:

Thanks for bringing some objectivity and fact into this thread. :rock:

Virtually all kaleuns were indeed given orders to "go here and hunt". SH3's campaign (modded) is nigh-on perfect.
Nigh-on,yes. Would still love the very occasional "special mission" though, a la SH4. But otherwise, yeah, fact is it wasn't all rollercoaster rides out at sea, hence the substantial recorded number of zero sightings let alone zero sinkings at the end of 30 day patrols...

[THE_MASK]

With the Litecampaign 1.2 mod you dont even have to do the narvik mission LOL .

[Zedi]

With the Litecampaign 1.2 mod you dont even have to do the narvik mission LOL .

Not true, I just got it. But I think I will have to pass it because I play on 100% realism and with IRAI on, so this is mission impossible. I almost shot a random salvo at a german BB just because is damn hard to identify a rushing task force from long distance at dawn. Also, is a very low chance that the torpedoes will pass the escort shields undetected, so the main target will dodge it. After that is no way that I will see the sky again, no matter what. If they don't sunk me, the will camp the area for weeks.

SH5 and his campaign was designed to be a game, not a sim. Align the dots, shot and lol. True story.

[janh]

SH5 and his campaign was designed to be a game, not a sim. Align the dots, shot and lol. True story.

That is exactly the one "shortcoming" of SHV that I so far cannot attribute to the designers, and one that I can accept as "needs to be modded". The developers wanted and needed to sell, and sell means game for the casual players. Though they could have invested a little more time and added two different campaign versions, selectable in the difficulty settings maybe, "historical" vs. "enhanced".

[THE_MASK]

Not true, I just got it. But I think I will have to pass it because I play on 100% realism and with IRAI on, so this is mission impossible. I almost shot a random salvo at a german BB just because is damn hard to identify a rushing task force from long distance at dawn. Also, is a very low chance that the torpedoes will pass the escort shields undetected, so the main target will dodge it. After that is no way that I will see the sky again, no matter what. If they don't sunk me, the will camp the area for weeks.




















SH5 and his campaign was designed to be a game, not a sim. Align the dots, shot and lol. True story.What i meant was with litecampaign you can ignore narvik and the northern patrol if you want . Western approaches and coastal traffic will give you 5 iron crosses which is enough to fullfill the campaign objectives .

[Kapitanleutnant]

The developers wanted and needed to sell, and sell means game for the casual players.
No it doesn't. SH5's terrible reception is a perfect example of this fallacy. Ubisoft may have believed that making it "casual" would make it sell, but they were wrong.
The best way to sell a simulation is to make it a good simulation. Games like IL-2 Sturmovik and Armed Assault sell well because people recognise the pedigree there. They respect the effort that has gone into providing a comprehensive and detailed simulation.

By simplifying your game in an effort to appeal to the "casual" market, you piss off your core fanbase of simulationists, and you still don't attract the casuals because they're just not interested in a sim, even with a half-arsed RPG mechanic bolted onto it.

[Takeda Shingen]

The best way to sell a simulation is to make it a good simulation. Games like IL-2 Sturmovik and Armed Assault sell well because people recognise the pedigree there. They respect the effort that has gone into providing a comprehensive and detailed simulation.

That is a terrible comparison. Even the most meagre of first-person shooters or flight simulators will outsell the greatest of submarine simulations. Respect and effort have nothing to do with it.

[Zedi]

No it doesn't. SH5's terrible reception is a perfect example of this fallacy. Ubisoft may have believed that making it "casual" would make it sell, but they were wrong.

You can't be sure about that. Subsim community is not the whole SH5 customer base. Maybe SH5 sales is better than any previous SH had before, so that's why they don't give much on those opinions who wish a more hardcore game. Maybe we are just a minority, even if we think that the world is spinning around us.

This is a general tendency in the game industry. I remember what a damn hardcore game was vanilla WoW around 5 years ago and how dumbed down is now when any retard can have the best items in the game for almost no effort in just few days. But this was the way of success for WoW and the key of how they managed to have over 12M subscribers/month. The kidos don't like games where you have to think/work much, just point, shot and lol.

With these facts, will you listen to the minority who dream about a hardcore game, or to the overwhelming majority who wish only easy entertainment? Business is business, not a charity ball. So if we want the hardcore/sim part of this game, we must work on it ourselfs...

[AVGWarhawk]

That is a terrible comparison. Even the most meagre of first-person shooters or flight simulators will outsell the greatest of submarine simulations. Respect and effort have nothing to do with it.


Agreed. Subject plays a large part in sales.

[janh]

Agreed. Subject plays a large part in sales.

I would assume so, yes -- independent of whether it is a submarine simulation, a captain simulator, a shooter anything similar around the topic "submarine warfare against civil merchants in Atlantic or Pacific in WWII", it will not be a mass market game. It is just not a hot topic, at least presently. Whether SHV now has attained more casual gamers than it's predecessors would now be an interesting information that would show whether Ubisoft's new strategy succeeded. Quite sure, it has annoyed quite a few hardcore simulation fans, but this didn't come as a big surprise. At least the developers tried to put in a core engine into SHV that would allow turning it back into a detailed simulation. So they surely didn't forget the simulation fans entirely.

[scrapser]

I wouldn't go scaring children like that :-?

Truth is, I've seen lots of buggy games cut from patch support. And I still can't forgive Ubi for not patching the spawning road blocks in Far Cry 2. Then there's Sh4 UBM with a buggy notepad and stadimeter, easy things to fix by the devs, but which were never fixed.

However, with all the "Silent Hunter is dead" threads and most modders jumping overboard or simply waiting for the next patch, Ubi's notorious "case closed" policy seems a bit more expected. That must be why Elanaiba and Sorlim urge us to continue to mod the game. With a bit more support from us and a more clear view of the bugs, they might persuade the suits to release another patch.

And, on the bright side, progress with SH5 mods has been stunning so far. I'm beginning to subscribe to the opinion that one year from now, SH5 will be
better than all previous titles (with mods ofc).

Since you mention it here, what was the problem with Far Cry 2 spawning road blocks? I know it seems weird when playing the game that you can clear a road block of guards and when you return a short time later they are all back. Is this what you're referring to? If it weren't for the respawning of guards the game would get boring very fast.

[Faamecanic]

Technically it's not quite dead yet, hasn't died and therefore has not yet had the chance to become undead. :hmmm:

OTOH this provides a great opportunity for further comedic segue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grbSQ6O6kbs

:yeah:

Im not dead yet..... no but you will be..... Im getting better!!!


http://patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/holygrail004.jpg

[Faamecanic]

So, I suppose what would be the most realistic would be a sort of mix of the two systems. Perhaps they(bdu) could give you a strategically placed patrol grid, and give you instructions on whether you are to concentrate on merchants or warships(and it could get a bit more specific).

However, the idea of being assigned to sink 2 battle ships here, sink 1 aircraft carrier there, now sink 100,000 of shipping in this other place, is not realistic by any means.
.

I wouldnt mind the "Engage Warships" type campaign. BUT being as SH5 is geared to reward TONNAGE ONLY (just like SH3 and 4)..the last thing I want to do is engage DD's or Corvettes. Just not worth the torpedos.

I also have to agree that yet....BdU DID assign Uboats OCCASAIONALLY to concentrate on warships. But this was never the norm. And as others have said BdU never said "I want you to sink 2 Battleships".

Missions for Uboats were targets of oportunity.... not hard a fast Sink X type ships or Sink 100,000tons of Cargo (which is historically rediculous to begin with.)

[Gezoes]

That is a terrible comparison. Even the most meagre of first-person shooters or flight simulators will outsell the greatest of submarine simulations. Respect and effort have nothing to do with it.

Agreed. Subject plays a large part in sales.

True, but the man still has a point. Any good simulation/game should never alienate its roots or core fan base, especially if it's very small and very loyal. IL2 never did that, neither did the highly unstable ARMA, both with outdated graphics. That alone would usually hamper sales in their large fanbase. It didn't, because the old gameplay is still there, and things were added instead of fan favorites taken out.

It doesn't really have much to do with sales and or a small/huge fanbase. It's happens primarily when a publisher pushes the dev team of a small title, that unfortunately happens to be under an umbrella that doesn't need them to fair well. It does that with its big titles, hence they get more time, money and corporate patience. I'm sure the devs would have liked to give us the ultimate reincarnation of SH3, so I can't really blame them, I blame UBI for that. And DRM ofcourse.

[Catfish]

Hello,
i like submarine simulators, the dev team and the Silent hunter series, even if i gave SH5 back (and did not buy it again) due to "Uplay" and the fulltime online requirement (:down:)
But what companies nowadays expect and demand from their "customers" stinks to the heavens, it's even worse with "RoF".

What was funny is that when i gave the sim back, there was no problem at all, instead the trader in the small shop said that there were more than 20 SH5 sims already given back to him ! I wonder whether such things appear in the official statistics lol.

But you know what ? I found out i do not really need SH5 or PC games, especially if it's more a hazzle than fun. There are a lot more things to really do in this life, really :yep:
So go on companies, make it harder and more uncomfortable until no one buys your stuff any more. Understand i do not wish you luck,

Catfish

[Drifter]

Hey everyone, it's basically over for SH5. The funeral has ended. It's time to move on. There won't be any more official patches. And modders won't be able to fix most of the hard-coded problems that still exist. And for some strange reason, the powers that be around here will defend this dead duck called Silent Hunter 5 until the bitter end. I wonder why. :hmmm:

A pig with lipstick is still a pig. :doh:

[Nisgeis]

:|\\

[John Channing]

Hey everyone, it's basically over for SH5. The funeral has ended. It's time to move on. There won't be any more official patches. And modders won't be able to fix most of the hard-coded problems that still exist. And for some strange reason, the powers that be around here will defend this dead duck called Silent Hunter 5 until the bitter end. I wonder why. :hmmm:

A pig with lipstick is still a pig. :doh:

Yup. That's what they said about 688i: Hunter Killer. Until some members of Subsim came together to get the develpers to release patches that fixed most of the problems.

Yup. That's exactly what they said about the multiplayer aspect of Sh2. Until some members of Subsim came together and, with Neal's financial help, fixed it.

Perhaps I can help you with your wondering. No one around here is defending Sh5. However, some of the people here see the potential and are trying to do something positive to try and fix it. If we are able to get an official patch... great. if we can't then the modders here have already fixed most of the real issues.

Some people here believe that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. They not only believe it, they put their time, their considerable talent and tons of effort into it.

But thanks for your opinion.

JCC

[SteelViking]

Yup. That's what they said about 688i: Hunter Killer. Until some members of Subsim came together to get the develpers to release patches that fixed most of the problems.

Yup. That's exactly what they said about the multiplayer aspect of Sh2. Until some members of Subsim came together and, with Neal's financial help, fixed it.

Perhaps I can help you with your wondering. No one around here is defending Sh5. However, some of the people here see the potential and are trying to do something positive to try and fix it. If we are able to get an official patch... great. if we can't then the modders here have already fixed most of the real issues.

Some people here believe that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. They not only believe it, they put their time, their considerable talent and tons of effort into it.

But thanks for your opinion.

JCC

Well said.:up:

[Takeda Shingen]

Yup. That's what they said about 688i: Hunter Killer. Until some members of Subsim came together to get the develpers to release patches that fixed most of the problems.

Yup. That's exactly what they said about the multiplayer aspect of Sh2. Until some members of Subsim came together and, with Neal's financial help, fixed it.

Perhaps I can help you with your wondering. No one around here is defending Sh5. However, some of the people here see the potential and are trying to do something positive to try and fix it. If we are able to get an official patch... great. if we can't then the modders here have already fixed most of the real issues.

Some people here believe that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. They not only believe it, they put their time, their considerable talent and tons of effort into it.

But thanks for your opinion.

JCC

Yes. That is what makes SubSim as great as it is. Where others complain and deride, our members work to solve, to repair, to overcome. I couldn't imagine this community simply giving up and moving on. We only spite ourselves.

For the individuals who come to complain, say 'nay' and accuse us of dishonesty and foolhardy support, I tell you that Silent Hunter 5 will get there. We are hoping it will do so with UbiSoft's support. However, this community will do it with or without; they always find a way. It is what makes them great. It is why people come here. And when they do get results, and you come back to sheepishly download their mods, we won't put our fingers in your face and belittle you, as you have done us; we're better than that. But you will know, and so will we.

[robbo180265]

Yes. That is what makes SubSim as great as it is. Where others complain and deride, our members work to solve, to repair, to overcome. I couldn't imagine this community simply giving up and moving on. We only spite ourselves.

For the individuals who come to complain, say 'nay' and accuse us of dishonesty and foolhardy support, I tell you that Silent Hunter 5 will get there. We are hoping it will do so with UbiSoft's support. However, this community will do it with or without; they always find a way. It is what makes them great. It is why people come here. And when they do get results, and you come back to sheepishly download their mods, we won't put our fingers in your face and belittle you, as you have done us; we're better than that. But you will know, and so will we.


+100 great post that sums up Subsim for the members who aren't already aware just what being a part of this community means.

[Sailor Steve]

John, you left out SH3, which truly has been officially dead for almost half a decade now, yet is still being made better almost daily. Yes, it is more complete at its core than any of the others, and its true there have only been two patches for SH5, but that doesn't mean there won't be another. And, contrary to the negative opinions, those with the ability to do so are exploring the secrets of the coding the devs left for them to use.

Negativity, believe it or not, is always welcome, as long as it's openly debated and not just an insult. Has anyone else noticed that the people saying the SH5 is dead, including the OP, have made that claim once and then not had the fortitude, or the graciousness, to stick around and discuss it. To steal a great quote "It's only mostly dead, not all dead." :sunny:

It's time to move on.
To what? Anything helpful to offer, or just insults?

[John Channing]

...And when they do get results, and you come back to sheepishly download their mods, we won't put our fingers in your face and belittle you, as you have done us; we're better than that.

Speak for yourself! I'm keepin' a list of names!

:D

JCC

[John Channing]

Negativity, believe it or not, is always welcome, as long as it's openly debated and not just an insult. " :sunny:




A very wise man I have the good fortune to work with once said that skepticism is healthy in that it can lead to honest debate that can inform a better outcome.

Cynicism, on the other hand, is fatal

Been a whole lot of cynicism of late.

JCC

[Méo]

Yup. That's what they said about 688i: Hunter Killer. Until some members of Subsim came together to get the develpers to release patches that fixed most of the problems.

Yup. That's exactly what they said about the multiplayer aspect of Sh2. Until some members of Subsim came together and, with Neal's financial help, fixed it.

Perhaps I can help you with your wondering. No one around here is defending Sh5. However, some of the people here see the potential and are trying to do something positive to try and fix it. If we are able to get an official patch... great. if we can't then the modders here have already fixed most of the real issues.

Some people here believe that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. They not only believe it, they put their time, their considerable talent and tons of effort into it.

But thanks for your opinion.

JCC

Yes. That is what makes SubSim as great as it is. Where others complain and deride, our members work to solve, to repair, to overcome. I couldn't imagine this community simply giving up and moving on. We only spite ourselves.

For the individuals who come to complain, say 'nay' and accuse us of dishonesty and foolhardy support, I tell you that Silent Hunter 5 will get there. We are hoping it will do so with UbiSoft's support. However, this community will do it with or without; they always find a way. It is what makes them great. It is why people come here. And when they do get results, and you come back to sheepishly download their mods, we won't put our fingers in your face and belittle you, as you have done us; we're better than that. But you will know, and so will we.

Very well said! Gentlemen. :|\\

[elanaiba]

A very wise man I have the good fortune to work with once said that skepticism is healthy in that it can lead to honest debate that can inform a better outcome.

Cynicism, on the other hand, is fatal


Hmmm, I have to make a note of that. I often surprise myself as being skeptical.

[Jimbuna]

Yes. That is what makes SubSim as great as it is. Where others complain and deride, our members work to solve, to repair, to overcome. I couldn't imagine this community simply giving up and moving on. We only spite ourselves.

For the individuals who come to complain, say 'nay' and accuse us of dishonesty and foolhardy support, I tell you that Silent Hunter 5 will get there. We are hoping it will do so with UbiSoft's support. However, this community will do it with or without; they always find a way. It is what makes them great. It is why people come here. And when they do get results, and you come back to sheepishly download their mods, we won't put our fingers in your face and belittle you, as you have done us; we're better than that. But you will know, and so will we.

^^ http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/headbanger.gif

[Madox58]

All our troubles will be over when the final patch is released.
Here's an insiders leak of the process so far.
:03:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Tools/6-Cartoon_miracle.gif

[Hans Hansen]

All our troubles will be over when the final patch is released.
Here's an insiders leak of the process so far.
:03:


ROFL. Priceless! :up:

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

I only complain as a consumer who bought a defective product. I have no beef with modders who tried and continue to try their best. Ubi need to market a product and have some pride in it and not make a quick buck at our expense. As a personal protest I will not buy another Ubi game until they get their act together. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Madox58]

ROFL. Priceless! :up:


I understand the photo was taken on one of those new IPhones?
:har:

[daft]

SH5: Released to soon, killed by the "fans".

Agreed. There are more guilty parties besides Ubi in this case. A self fulfilling prophecy of ever I saw one. "The subsim genre is dead". Well, it certainly has taken a big step towards that state, but the blame lies not only with Ubi or the devs...

[thyro]

Agreed. There are more guilty parties besides Ubi in this case. A self fulfilling prophecy of ever I saw one. "The subsim genre is dead". Well, it certainly has taken a big step towards that state, but the blame lies not only with Ubi or the devs...


I agree to differ with both observations (your's and Neal's)! Blame lies sole and only with UBI

Please don't be naive and trying to tell paying customers that is our fault because UBI product suck heavily!

Please I don't need to know that you are the only exception this World that when you go to a car dealership to buy an expensive car, you end-up buy any shyte without an engine but if has at least one wheel you are happy with. If that makes you happy then please be, and don't assume all others would follow such low standards too blindly.

Same with UBI and SH5, an unfinished game packed with bugs plus DRM... deadly combination!

Just pity on those that unaware of the problems with this shyte SH product end-up buying such abortion for now to find out that they their money would be better spent feeding peanuts/bananas to real monkeys rather than scammers. All others that bought knowing of the problems with this unfinished shyte, well tough!

But you know what? The remaining good thing is, you got SH5 and in 3 or 4 years time it will be finished thanks to mods... if no better and finished game appears in the market replacing this SH5 abortion... hopefully not UBI crap thank you!

Cheers

[Topo65]

I think, that companies owe to their clients and not vice versa. The only duty of a client is paying for what they buy and customers buy only what suits them.

When the community asked for more simulation, they responded with more automated features.
When the community sayed no more intrusive anti-piracy system, they responded with DRM.
When the community asked for more realism, they responded with a first person game.
When the community asked for a more dynamic campaign, they responded with a campaign 1939/1941.
When the community asked for more and more detailed submarines, they responded with a single type of submarine.
When the community asked for a better simulation ended, they returned with a job unfinished.
When the community asked for support, they were left to the modders.
When the community speaks simulation, they respond about gameplay.

I see Silent Hunter, as a project full of good intentions, trying to grow in an environment increasingly stingy. The proof is, that after each release, we need more and more of our modders.

Now, my question is: Why we pretend that Ubi develop a simulator for us if we know very certainly that Ubi dont have any interest in developing simulators of any kind? :hmmm:

Greetings and sorry for my english.

[Arclight]

I hate to do this, but without anyone to counter claims, it's just going to result in a forum full of complaints and misinformation. :-?

I think, that companies owe to their clients and not vice versa. The only duty of a client is paying for what they buy and customers buy only what suits them.
True, but if you wish to see a product improve and develop, you should provide feedback. Posting "SH5 sux" over and over doesn't accomplish anything, except prove to the dev/publisher that there's no interest.
When the community asked for more simulation, they responded with more automated features.
Without taking anything out. Problem here is the interface is horribly incomplete; all previous functions are still present, but not accesible. (modded in)
When the community sayed no more intrusive anti-piracy system, they responded with DRM.
True enough.
When the community asked for more realism, they responded with a first person game.
Captains didn't generally float around or teleport.
When the community asked for a more dynamic campaign, they responded with a campaign 1939/1941.
Which is more dynamic than the ones before.
When the community asked for more and more detailed submarines, they responded with a single type of submarine.
Which has a fully modeled, detailed interior. iirc the community actually asked for full interiors, not more subs.
When the community asked for a better simulation ended, they returned with a job unfinished.
As always, sadly.
When the community asked for support, they were left to the modders.
Remains to be seen, true enough for the moment.
When the community speaks simulation, they respond about gameplay.
Yes, videogames tend to be about gameplay, sim or not. dev/publisher will always try to promote their product in interviews, can't really expect anything else.

I see Silent Hunter, as a project full of good intentions, trying to grow in an environment increasingly stingy. The proof is, that after each release, we need more and more of our modders.

Now, my question is: Why we pretend that Ubi develop a simulator for us if we know very certainly that Ubi dont have any interest in developing simulators of any kind? :hmmm:

Greetings and sorry for my english.
Agreed, SH5 didn't get the time and money it needed.

As far as simulators go: they published IL2 and LockOn; no doubt those are simulators. It seems you're forgetting about SH3, a praised and popular game (within it's niche) also regarded as a sim.


Thyro; SH5 was perfectly playable from the start, though with a lot of missing functionality. And with the mods at this point it is perfectly enjoyable. No need to wait 3-4 years. I'd even consider that statement a slight to the work modders have already done.

[SteelViking]

Well said Arclight, and thank you.

About that last statement about Thyro's post being a slight to the modders. I actually perceive all statements bashing SH5 as a slight to the modders, unless they are referring to the DRM. Or, unless they are bringing up a valid concern that has truly not been fixed by modders yet.

Basically, if people would truly take the time to get the right mods, I don't think they would complain very much if at all. But, instead, there is this group of people who refuse to buy the game,(or if they have it they refuse to see the good qualities of it or get mods apparently) and those people spam these forums with misinformed and overly negative statements. Frankly, I am getting sick of it.

Again, if your problem is with the DRM, and that is what is stopping you from buying or enjoying, I completely understand, I hate it myself.

[thyro]

Thyro; SH5 was perfectly playable from the start, though with a lot of missing functionality. And with the mods at this point it is perfectly enjoyable. No need to wait 3-4 years. I'd even consider that statement a slight to the work modders have already done.


Thanks Arclight, but I think you missed my point.

Half baked products I simply don't be wasting my money on them!


Not to mention other monster called DRM which the minimum is insulting for a paying customer.

Beside I'm glad you enjoy the SH5 as it is with a very long list of problems and lack of evolution. I wouldn't stand that at all, I wouldn't mind buying a bugged game (I bought so many over the years that I got used too) but half baked game? plus bugs? plus DRM? that is too much rubish on my plate.

Don't get me wrong in one thing... I'm not water down Subsim modders, in time (not days/months but years) SH5 might become a game what UBI was incompetent to achieve before the day of game release.

So actually modders deserve more appraisal than any of UBI devs. Beside who deserves being paid any future purchases of SH5 should be SUBSIM modders and not the monkeys sat at UBI.

I feel no sorry what so ever towards UBI because if this is true and UBI let SH5 to die... then UBI just scam alot of people with this half baked product even forced under DRM draconian idiocy so they deserve no respect.

Cheers

[Faamecanic]

Yes. That is what makes SubSim as great as it is. Where others complain and deride, our members work to solve, to repair, to overcome. I couldn't imagine this community simply giving up and moving on. We only spite ourselves.

For the individuals who come to complain, say 'nay' and accuse us of dishonesty and foolhardy support, I tell you that Silent Hunter 5 will get there. We are hoping it will do so with UbiSoft's support. However, this community will do it with or without; they always find a way. It is what makes them great. It is why people come here. And when they do get results, and you come back to sheepishly download their mods, we won't put our fingers in your face and belittle you, as you have done us; we're better than that. But you will know, and so will we.

Well said.... :up: :yeah: thats why I have been here, and will stay here for many years to come.

[thyro]

Well said Arclight, and thank you.

About that last statement about Thyro's post being a slight to the modders. I actually perceive all statements bashing SH5 as a slight to the modders, unless they are referring to the DRM. Or, unless they are bringing up a valid concern that has truly not been fixed by modders yet.

Basically, if people would truly take the time to get the right mods, I don't think they would complain very much if at all. But, instead, there is this group of people who refuse to buy the game,(or if they have it they refuse to see the good qualities of it or get mods apparently) and those people spam these forums with misinformed and overly negative statements. Frankly, I am getting sick of it.

Again, if your problem is with the DRM, and that is what is stopping you from buying or enjoying, I completely understand, I hate it myself.

I do bash is the idiots in UBI... so please do not rewrite my words in wrong target... I would be more than happy to buy SH5 if the all that money went to SUBSIM modders rather than a scam company called UBI.

So frankly if you are sick then please take the pills or get some glasses to properly read who my target is! Cheers

[Faamecanic]

Agreed. There are more guilty parties besides Ubi in this case. A self fulfilling prophecy of ever I saw one. "The subsim genre is dead". Well, it certainly has taken a big step towards that state, but the blame lies not only with Ubi or the devs...

Thats one comment I will NEVER agree with.

Thats like GM producing crap quality cars then wondering why thier sales are far below that of Ford or Toyota. Blame the car purchasers...ya thats it. :down:

Even the reviews in PC GAMER both pre and post patch suck, which almost NEVER reviews games before and after patch (thier policy is to only review the Gold release). And PC gamer reviewed SH5 as a causal gamer would look at the game.

I do however agree that looking at the fiasco of unfinished state in a negative light and saying "Sh 5 will never be good" short changes our MODDERS here. I feel HONORED to belong to a community where FREE MODS done with the sweat off the brows of modders here can SAVE a game that had a budget and PAID staff to produce. Hence why I feel UBI will never release a SDK (willingly) because our modders will make UBI look VERY VERY bad with what they can do. However...would be nice if the SDK would somehow end up "leaked".....illegal I know..sorry UBI but by releasing crap you brought this on yourself.. (by this I mean like how the SDK ended up in modders hands for Falcon 2.0 or how a dev for BAttlezone 2 eneded up working on and patching the game 8 years latter to something GREAT after the publisher abandoned the title).

[Takeda Shingen]

So frankly if you are sick then please take the pills or get some glasses to properly read who my target is! Cheers

Or, perhaps we can get over the 'Ubi sux' temper tantrums. I mean, it's been months now; it is long past time to either get over it and try to pull something productive out of the mess, or move on.

[TDK1044]

This thread was dead with post #1. How the hell did we get six pages out of it? :)

Subsim has always been a 'glass half full' environment. I don't know what will happen with Silent Hunter 5, but I know that the subsim modders will make it as good as it can be.

[Madox58]

This thread was dead with post #1. How the hell did we get six pages out of it? :)


Lots of hard work and to much spare time.
:haha:

[SteelViking]

I do bash is the idiots in UBI... so please do not rewrite my words in wrong target... I would be more than happy to buy SH5 if the all that money went to SUBSIM modders rather than a scam company called UBI.

So frankly if you are sick then please take the pills or get some glasses to properly read who my target is! Cheers

I did not misread your post(I wear contacts:O:). I know your target is Ubi, but by bashing SH5, you are bashing the people who are currently working on it as well, the modders. There is no way around it. If you post about all the problems in a way that is not meant to be constructive like asking the modders if something can be fixed, or bringing a problem to the attention of someone who has the ability to fix it, then yes in a way you are insulting those working on it. I am not trying to single you out or offend you, I am simply stating this for the benefit of everyone.

Also, if you have a problem with Ubi, they have forums, tell everyone about it there. Why does everyone seem to think that posting bad things about Ubi here is going to make any difference. Of course, posting on their forums won't make much difference either I suppose:hmmm:

Or, perhaps we can get over the 'Ubi sux' temper tantrums. I mean, it's been months now; it is long past time to either get over it and try to pull something productive out of the mess, or move on.

Exactly. A few months ago, "Ubi sucks" rants did not bother me because I was angry too. But, I, as well as many other folks have gotten over it, and are trying to make the situation better, as should everyone.

[seaniam81]

As far as simulators go: they published IL2 and LockOn; no doubt those are simulators. It seems you're forgetting about SH3, a praised and popular game (within it's niche) also regarded as a sim.



While I agree with pretty much everything you said Arc. I'm just going to point out IL2 and LockOn were indeed published by UBI, however they were created by 1C/Maddox (IL2) and Eagle Dynamics (LockOn) and Ubi had no hand in creating either. They just slapped their name on the box out on it's way out the door to the stores.

If anything UBI should be paying attention to 1C/Maddox because they still support IL2, and didn't IL2 come out in 2001?

[Arclight]

Aye, I was considering adding that maybe Ubi should stick to publishing sims instead of developing them, but they gave us SH3 and SH4. I'd also like to point out responses were not very different then to how people are reacting now.

edit: SH4 wasn't in much better condition at launch either.

There's always been a ton of complaining about SH releases, and yet today both 3&4 are mostly praised, instead of berated.


Though I should note I have that from hear-say. Haven't been around on SubSim long enough to have seen it first hand. :hmmm:

[Webster]

i think most people base their opinion of the sh5 game as it was released in its unmodded state and whatever official patches are made.

i think its wrong for people to base their opinion of sh5 with mods added to it if you are discussing the condition of the game as released.

i say this because anyone who is using the modders work to help form their opinion of sh5 is giving ubi undo credit for the modders work which improved the game.

IMO you are giving ubi and sh5 the praise they do not deserve for the hard work put in by the modders to create a better game

ubi and sh5 should only be judged for what sh5 is without any mods added when you are talking about the game as built.

now when you are discussing the games playability or enjoyment factor is the only time mods should be part of the opinion because you are no longer talking about the state it was released in.

[thyro]

I did not misread your post(I wear contacts:O:). I know your target is Ubi, but by bashing SH5, you are bashing the people who are currently working on it as well, the modders. There is no way around it. If you post about all the problems in a way that is not meant to be constructive like asking the modders if something can be fixed, or bringing a problem to the attention of someone who has the ability to fix it, then yes in a way you are insulting those working on it. I am not trying to single you out or offend you, I am simply stating this for the benefit of everyone.

Also, if you have a problem with Ubi, they have forums, tell everyone about it there. Why does everyone seem to think that posting bad things about Ubi here is going to make any difference. Of course, posting on their forums won't make much difference either I suppose:hmmm:



Exactly. A few months ago, "Ubi sucks" rants did not bother me because I was angry too. But, I, as well as many other folks have gotten over it, and are trying to make the situation better, as should everyone.


:nope:

speak for your self since you represent no one else beside you m8

Apology but your view is simply childish (apology if you are an adult) but that is now my perception formed based on th comment... sorry! :rotfl2:

I suggest you to re-read my posts for 3rd time because you are still getting them in wrong context.

DISCLAIM: Anyone as the right of reading text in the right/wrong context, I'm not responsible for wrong interpretation, translation or dyslexic problems that might occur during and after reading. Since words are free of charge and were not submited to scrutiny of UBI's DRM system and provided as it is. Therefore prone to hackers attacks or panic attacks on dearest fanboys on such subject.

BTW if you have a problem with me... lets meet at UBI's front door! I'm sure the front door window won't resist at heavy fire of crosswords :yawn:

[Madox58]

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Stuff/popcorn2.gif

[robbo180265]

i think most people base their opinion of the sh5 game as it was released in its unmodded state and whatever official patches are made.

i think its wrong for people to base their opinion of sh5 with mods added to it if you are discussing the condition of the game as released.

i say this because anyone who is using the modders work to help form their opinion of sh5 is giving ubi undo credit for the modders work which improved the game.

IMO you are giving ubi and sh5 the praise they do not deserve for the hard work put in by the modders to create a better game

ubi and sh5 should only be judged for what sh5 is without any mods added when you are talking about the game as built.

now when you are discussing the games playability or enjoyment factor is the only time mods should be part of the opinion because you are no longer talking about the state it was released in.

I actually agree wholeheartedly with this statement. The game should be judged out of the box and patched. If there really are no more patches coming then I think the game fails on a lot of fronts. This is part of the reason I no-longer play SH5 and haven't for quite some time.

I'm not belittling the modders but untill UBI pays them for their hard work I think it wrong to consider their contribution as anything other than fan mods

And thyro - once you stoop to personal insults you've lost any argument you had:nope:

[thyro]

i think most people base their opinion of the sh5 game as it was released in its unmodded state and whatever official patches are made.

i think its wrong for people to base their opinion of sh5 with mods added to it if you are discussing the condition of the game as released.

i say this because anyone who is using the modders work to help form their opinion of sh5 is giving ubi undo credit for the modders work which improved the game.

IMO you are giving ubi and sh5 the praise they do not deserve for the hard work put in by the modders to create a better game

ubi and sh5 should only be judged for what sh5 is without any mods added when you are talking about the game as built.

now when you are discussing the games playability or enjoyment factor is the only time mods should be part of the opinion because you are no longer talking about the state it was released in.

indeed quite true Webster

the other shenanigan is that in time raw unfinished SH5 will get heavily modded if modders keep enough interest on the game and if no major show-stop appears.

Then SH5 would come back to surface and players start buying the game... But who will win won't be Subsim modders but the company that produced this SH5 abortion.

Beside I think that is time to appear mods pay-for-use than current use-for-free... this only benefit modders. This can be seen in other games and is a good incentive to keep things in perspective from both sides... those who spend time creating mods and those that just grab them for free.

If that would happen in SUBSIM it is a totally different story but... things are changing towards this way... and to be fair if I pay for mods in other games I really wouldn't mind paying mods for this game either. That is win-win situation the modder wins and the player wins coz didn't have the trouble creating something.

edit: even if isn't for modders own wallet... that money could go either to support the community or for a charity like some that I know already do on other games.

[Arclight]

IMO you are giving ubi and sh5 the praise they do not deserve for the hard work put in by the modders to create a better game
I'm not sure, are you adressing me? Pretty sure I made that distinction specifically saying it was playable out-of-the-box, and enjoyable after modders got started with it.

I agree that SH5 at release should be compared to 3 or 4 at release. At the moment though, we can't really compare it to anything since we don't even know if it's reached the end of it's support yet.


An edit I wanted to make about support and people's stance earlier:
The support is tricky at this point. On the one hand, Ubi torpedoed their sales by introducing that DRM and releasing it unfinished. I'm not up to speed on SH5 sales numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were rather disappointing. On the other hand, there's a lot of complaining going on, albeit justified in some cases. The only message this sends to Ubi is "we don't want your crap". Why would they try to improve something that nobody wants? Being a company, they would be better off cutting their losses.

It's not a good policy towards people that already own it. I certainly wouldn't buy a SH6 at this point, given the treatment we're receiving with SH5. But that doesn't mean I'm going to roll over and let it go to waste, while constantly voicing my dissatisfaction at every opportunity. I would much rather contribute to it's possible succes by offering suggestions or even doing some modding myself, if possible.

Maybe, just maybe, Ubi is willing to support it further if they think there's interest for it. The community improving the game at this point can only increase interest for it, making that chance slightly bigger.

Personally, I prefer a slim chance to no chance at all. :)

[OldFrenchy]

after re-reading my comment i feel its important to add this:

sh5 will be a great game at some point even without ubi being involved in it anymore.

IMO it is the modders who made ubi games great and sh5 will be fixed by modders so its only a matter of giving them time.

in a year or two i think there will be a few mega mod choices that resolve "most" issues with the game and while there will still be major bugs and glitches due to ubi's unfinished work, the mods will make the rest good enough to overlook them.

Too true. A big :salute:THANKS! :salute: to all the modders for their tireless work to bring this game up to its potential! I, for one, had given up on it untill after having many mods installed convinced me that I was wrong.
:rock:

[SteelViking]

:nope:

speak for your self since you represent no one else beside you m8

Apology but your view is simply childish (apology if you are an adult) but that is now my perception formed based on th comment... sorry! :rotfl2:

I suggest you to re-read my posts for 3rd time because you are still getting them in wrong context.

DISCLAIM: Anyone as the right of reading text in the right/wrong context, I'm not responsible for wrong interpretation, translation or dyslexic problems that might occur during and after reading. Since words are free of charge and were not submited to scrutiny of UBI's DRM system and provided as it is. Therefore prone to hackers attacks or panic attacks on dearest fanboys on such subject.

BTW if you have a problem with me... lets meet at UBI's front door! I'm sure the front door window won't resist at heavy fire of crosswords :yawn:

I think your insult of calling me childish speaks for itself as to who is the more mature and who is the less mature person in this conversation. I never once belittled you or what you say, I simply stated my disagreement.

Also, I think you should reread my comment, I clearly state that I have no problem with you personally, you must have missed that part.

[Takeda Shingen]

Withdrawn

[tonschk]

I think your insult of calling me childish speaks for itself as to who is the more mature and who is the less mature person in this conversation.

.


:up: Very Good SteelViking , I agree :up:

.

[Madox58]

Withdrawn

[Webster]

I'm not sure, are you adressing me?

no i wasnt responding to your comments, i saw how steelviking was defending sh5 with mods and taking offence at thyro putting down sh5 "as released" and saw where both of them had good points but i felt they were talking about two entirely different sh5 games, one with mods and one without.

so i offered my observation of how i think its really important to think about the way you look at things and put them into context before deciding whats right or wrong in another persons opinion.

[Webster]

Then SH5 would come back to surface and players start buying the game... But who will win won't be Subsim modders but the company that produced this SH5 abortion.

Beside I think that is time to appear mods pay-for-use than current use-for-free... this only benefit modders. This can be seen in other games and is a good incentive to keep things in perspective from both sides... those who spend time creating mods and those that just grab them for free.

If that would happen in SUBSIM it is a totally different story but... things are changing towards this way... and to be fair if I pay for mods in other games I really wouldn't mind paying mods for this game either. That is win-win situation the modder wins and the player wins coz didn't have the trouble creating something.

edit: even if isn't for modders own wallet... that money could go either to support the community or for a charity like some that I know already do on other games.

i dont agree, if we get a game thats good and playable then WE do win.

yes, ubi makes a few more $ but thats going to be at greatly discounted prices that will mostly just cover some of their losses, they certainly wont profit from it.

as for "pay-for" mods :down: that is not what modding is about, for sure its not what subsim modders are about and IMO its more of an abomination then the DRM idea

[Nisgeis]

I did not misread your post(I wear contacts:O:).

Ah, so that's why the sonar man doesn't report them...

Now, you forgot to say you didn't take pills. If you'd taken your pills you wouldn't have forgotten to say that you didn't take pills :DL.

I actually agree wholeheartedly with this statement. The game should be judged out of the box and patched.

That's fine as long as it isn't compared against another game that has been fully patched and modded up to the eyeballs. :yep:

Beside I think that is time to appear mods pay-for-use than current use-for-free... this only benefit modders.

Which games have that system - got a link? Aren't there 'legal' issues surrounding modifying an original file and charging for it? :hmmm:

EDIT: Oh yeah, why do people use a 'car analogy'. It's not as if we're discussing string theory here. A simple concept like a game sold that has not been fully patched should be easy enough to understand without the use of an analogy.

[SteelViking]

Webster, while I respect your point of view that modded SH5 and out of the Box SH5 are different, I just don't see it that way. I think of SH5 with all the mods the same as most people think of SHIII+GWX. When people think of SHIII they usually think of it being already modded.

[robbo180265]

I actually agree wholeheartedly with this statement. The game should be judged out of the box and patched.

That's fine as long as it isn't compared against another game that has been fully patched and modded up to the eyeballs. :yep:


I do agree in fact I've deliberately never compared the two - I may have said that I prefer one over the other at the moment , but that's as close as I've come:D

[robbo180265]

Webster, while I respect your point of view that modded SH5 and out of the Box SH5 are different, I just don't see it that way. I think of SH5 with all the mods the same as most people think of SHIII+GWX. When people think of SHIII they usually think of it being already modded.

You see, I think SH3 was a far better and more complete game out of the box. I can clearly remember playing it and enjoying it long before I found Subsim and discovered all the lovely mods.

[Harmsway!]

You see, I think SH3 was a far better and more complete game out of the box. I can clearly remember playing it and enjoying it long before I found Subsim and discovered all the lovely mods.

It could be that without Subsim your expectations were less then what they are now.

[robbo180265]

It could be that without Subsim your expectations were less then what they are now.

That could be true.Thing is I'm quite picky about my games - they either grab me or they don't. Sh3 grabbed me in a big way, Sh5 hasn't.

As you say I might be more choosey about my subsims because of .....well Subsim. Or it might be that Sh5 doesn't deliver.

I can't be sure to be honest..

[TheBrauerHour]

I played the heck out of SH3 and SH4...still do in fact. I bought SH5, played it 3 times and haven't touched it since.

It seems the devs have alot of work to do. :nope:

[Arclight]

no i wasnt responding to your comments, i saw how steelviking was defending sh5 with mods and taking offence at thyro putting down sh5 "as released" and saw where both of them had good points but i felt they were talking about two entirely different sh5 games, one with mods and one without.

so i offered my observation of how i think its really important to think about the way you look at things and put them into context before deciding whats right or wrong in another persons opinion.
Aye, thanks for the clarification. Getting a little confusing. :doh: :03:

[Nisgeis]

That could be true.Thing is I'm quite picky about my games - they either grab me or they don't. Sh3 grabbed me in a big way, Sh5 hasn't.

That's the same for me. I think that's because SH3 was such a big leap forward. I remember when I first saw the E3 trailer demo thingy where the sub was sailing along next to some icebergs and all of a sidden an enemy battlefleet was revealed and the order to crash dive was given, with the bell ringing and the crew shouting. Then the planes came in and attacked the fleet. Pure PR rubbish, was obvisouly a scripted mission, as you'd never be sailing along and all of a sudden see an enemy task force a few hundred metres away, but all I could think was 'Oh yeah!'. It's because of that that I didn't mind SH3 crashing to desktop when I hit the auto crew management button. I just said 'Oh' and loaded it back up again.

[Topo65]

I hate to do this...

So... dont do it! :cry: (Its just a joke :DL) Thanks for taking your time to read my post and give me your point of view. :up:

Maybe I should not post without a full knowledge of the language, and take the risk of using words that could be misinterpreted. But do not blame me for feeling part of this community, which I appreciate so much and try to express myself. :salute:

I just want to make clear that I really appreciate the work done by the modders. Yes, I'm a little angry with Ubisoft and the treatment given to the saga. But I respect and accept the opinions of others. :yep:

[jpinard]

I've been holding out forever hoping UBISoft will patch out the constant need for Internet access. Comcast is fantastically unreliable and considering I can't load Youtube vidoes half the time, I doubt UBISoft server support will be much better.

That said, are there mods that can patch that out of purchased games? If not, then I still won't buy it and won't be aparty to this crap. But if it is (without resorting to piracy) I will get it on sale.

[Takeda Shingen]

That said, are there mods that can patch that out of purchased games? If not, then I still won't buy it and won't be aparty to this crap. But if it is (without resorting to piracy) I will get it on sale.

Don't even ask that question here.

The Management

[Arclight]

So... dont do it! :cry: (Its just a joke :DL) Thanks for taking your time to read my post and give me your point of view. :up:

Maybe I should not post without a full knowledge of the language, and take the risk of using words that could be misinterpreted. But do not blame me for feeling part of this community, which I appreciate so much and try to express myself. :salute:

I just want to make clear that I really appreciate the work done by the modders. Yes, I'm a little angry with Ubisoft and the treatment given to the saga. But I respect and accept the opinions of others. :yep:
Aye, nothing personal and I'm not out to insult you or anything. That's why I hate it; it's too hard not too offend anyone in this whole SH5 thing. :-?

You have every right to be angry and let that be heard, but I think there should be a bit of counter to that as well. It's not all doom and gloom. ;)

[SteelViking]

it's too hard not too offend anyone in this whole SH5 thing.

You can say that again.:yep:

[Arclight]

Alright: It's too hard not to offend anyone in this whole SH5 thing.

There, even improved the spelling.

[Webster]

Webster, while I respect your point of view that modded SH5 and out of the Box SH5 are different, I just don't see it that way. I think of SH5 with all the mods the same as most people think of SHIII+GWX. When people think of SHIII they usually think of it being already modded.

well its important to understand that many do not see it the same way so when someone comments on the game you just cant assume they are commenting on the mods as well.

with sh3+gwx we are all using the same mod so in that case i can see your point but this is not the case with sh5


IMO sh5 as released and patched from ubi - sh5 sucks :down:

sh5 after it is fixed by the mods made by the modders at this site and others - sh5 rocks :rock:

IMO they are two different games that cant be viewed as the same

[Faamecanic]

This thread was dead with post #1. How the hell did we get six pages out of it? :)

Subsim has always been a 'glass half full' environment. I don't know what will happen with Silent Hunter 5, but I know that the subsim modders will make it as good as it can be.

It was NEVER dead...it was made by the (insert Class C horror flick music here) SUBSIM ARMY OF ZOMBIES.

[thyro]

IMO sh5 as released and patched from ubi - sh5 sucks :down:

sh5 after it is fixed by the mods made by the modders at this site and others - sh5 rocks :rock:

IMO they are two different games that cant be viewed as the same

I hope you right Webster for the sake of all of us and to put a end to all this fire-crossing-words-fight coz atm SH5 rocks but in the bottom of the ocean floor that is where it is now :)

As it stands SH4 is far better game than SH5 is atm and with and without mods and same goes for SH3 with or without mods... and same can be said about SH2 + DC without any mods (put aside bugs and DRM)

So who is the player that in the right mind will be wasting money on an half baked product knowing that is not finished and hopping in a good will of others (forget DRM plus bugs for a second... just looking at playability of the subject... WWII war period)

Now if (big IF) SH5 gets fully modded like SH3 and if (big IF) there are no hardcode constraints that put a stop on introducing all the missing WWII period then agree it will stand some chance of resurfacing... but in the state that SH5 is atm, negative it was a sub that went down and fast.

At end of the day UBI will be laughing if is not already laughing at all this mess of a rushed product out of the window and without minimum of quality standards. They will also be laughing in the future by profiting from game sales of SH5 (half baked) simply because others (unpaid workers) finished the game for UBI and all for free. That only set a very bad example to a corporation that did and does crap and give a damn to all here plus their own customers. Cheers

[Ducimus]

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Stuff/popcorn2.gif

Mind if i borrow that emotican? Me likey.

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

I wanted to torpedo SH5 but all of them were duds.:D But I've decided to give it one more go and so far it's holding up with the help of some mods.

[Sailor Steve]

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Stuff/popcorn2.gif


Mind if i borrow that emotican? Me likey.
As long as you share.

"Don't bogart that joi...popcorn, my friend. Pass it over to me."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWWx_5UE2kw&feature=related

[Madox58]

Mind if i borrow that emotican? Me likey.

Help yourself.
:up:
Just be aware that it might get you noticed in ways you didn't intend.
:03:

[krashkart]

it's too hard not too offend anyone in this whole SH5 thing. :-?
You can say that again.:yep:

Are you implying that I'm easily offended?!?!!! :stare:



Wait... what's the topic?? :O:


Oh I am just so mean, aren't I? :rotfl2:

[Jimbuna]

Help yourself.
:up:
Just be aware that it might get you noticed in ways you didn't intend.
:03:

Yeah....even in places like George Bush International Airport :DL

[Madox58]

Did you have that on your shirt when you ......
Um............
'Borrowed' (Coff, coff)
a Limo?

:haha:

[badaboom]

Well.If UBI completes what we've paid them to do,fix/deliver a bug free game.Or the fantastic mods step up yet again to save UBI's Arce and fix it,I really believe SHV has incredible potential.

[Jimbuna]

Did you have that on your shirt when you ......
Um............
'Borrowed' (Coff, coff)
a Limo?

:haha:

When you go by the name of Mr Wolframm, anything is possible....even 'borrowing' stretched limousines :smug:

http://www.premierlimousine.com/images/limo01animated.gif

[Madox58]

:har:
You should have 'borrowed' it a bit longer then.
;)
The ride would have been less crowded and Neal would gladly have given you the address of the Hotel.
(Not to mention the free drinks on the way!)
:haha:
Not that you would ever have had to pay anything.
Except a vision of Mr. Wolframm wondering why he was left at the airport forever lingering in your mind.
:doh:

[Jimbuna]

:har:
You should have 'borrowed' it a bit longer then.
;)
The ride would have been less crowded and Neal would gladly have given you the address of the Hotel.
(Not to mention the free drinks on the way!)
:haha:
Not that you would ever have had to pay anything.
Except a vision of Mr. Wolframm wondering why he was left at the airport forever lingering in your mind.
:doh:

ROFLMAO :rotfl2:

Of course I didn't think it that funny at the time :oops:

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

Here's what REALLY happened...

On a dark, and stormy night two Ubi execs met.

1st Exec: "Hey, I have a great idea. Let's release SH5 tomorrow."

2nd Exec: "But it isn't completed."

1st Exec: "That's OK, we'll be saving a lot of money. The mods will improve on it...FOR FREE!"

:D

[Takeda Shingen]

Here's what REALLY happened...

On a dark, and stormy night two Ubi execs met.

1st Exec: "Hey, I have a great idea. Let's release SH5 tomorrow."

2nd Exec: "But it isn't completed."

1st Exec: "That's OK, we'll be saving a lot of money. The mods will improve on it...FOR FREE!"

:D

Or more likely:

1st Exec: "Hey, I have a great idea. Let's release SH5 tomorrow."

2nd Exec: "What's SH5?"

[Seeadler]

Here's what REALLY happened...
On a dark, and stormy night two Ubi execs met.
1st Exec: "Hey, I have a great idea. Let's release SH5 tomorrow."
2nd Exec: "But it isn't completed."


Release unfinished games, this idea might also be of Codemasters CEO Rod Cousens:DL
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=255861

[pickinthebanjo]

So I take it, if it's incomplete and there are no more patches being released it isn't worth buying then.

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

The mods makes the difference. I'm not so sorry buying SH5. It's still playable.

[Webster]

So I take it, if it's incomplete and there are no more patches being released it isn't worth buying then.

i wouldnt say its a bad game, IMO while you CAN play it as bought its just "incomplete as released" but you will definately need mods to make it an enjoyable game.

if a friend ask me my opinion of sh5 today i would tell him its a very good game but he must use mods to make it that way and i would (again this is just my opinion) tell him to not pay more then $20 for it

[scratch81]

Webster, while I respect your point of view that modded SH5 and out of the Box SH5 are different, I just don't see it that way. I think of SH5 with all the mods the same as most people think of SHIII+GWX. When people think of SHIII they usually think of it being already modded.

I agree, SH3 out of the box, unpatched, and unmodded is unplayable garbage. The DRM, in my humblest of oppinions, is far less annoying than StarFarce was. And I'll happily pay for a half empty pitcher of beer, as long as i get free refills.

[Sailor Steve]

So I take it, if it's incomplete and there are no more patches being released it isn't worth buying then.
As always, it depends on what you want. Many people say they love it. Read what they say and if what it gives them is also what you want then go for it.

Others say it's okay. Read what they say and if it's enough for you then go for it.

The 'SH3 holdouts' want a complete war campaign with different u-boat types, plus many different merchant types. SH5 doesn't provide that...yet. Whether it can be made to remains to be seen.

Me, I just want the DRM to be gone so anybody can play it. Then I'll buy it, no questions asked. I probably won't play it much, since I'm one of the 'Multiple boats and whole war campaign' crowd. But I will look at the pretties, and I will see what can be done about ships and names.

The DRM, in my humblest of oppinions, is far less annoying than StarFarce was.
The 'Holding Out' is not about being annoying. It's about the fact that a lot of people aren't allowed to play it at all. I can live with annoying. I refuse to live with tyrrany and domination.

[Jimbuna]

As always, it depends on what you want. Many people say they love it. Read what they say and if what it gives them is also what you want then go for it.

Others say it's okay. Read what they say and if it's enough for you then go for it.

The 'SH3 holdouts' want a complete war campaign with different u-boat types, plus many different merchant types. SH5 doesn't provide that...yet. Whether it can be made to remains to be seen.

Me, I just want the DRM to be gone so anybody can play it. Then I'll buy it, no questions asked. I probably won't play it much, since I'm one of the 'Multiple boats and whole war campaign' crowd. But I will look at the pretties, and I will see what can be done about ships and names.


The 'Holding Out' is not about being annoying. It's about the fact that a lot of people aren't allowed to play it at all. I can live with annoying. I refuse to live with tyrrany and domination.

Well put Steve....just about covers everyone to one degree or another :yep:

[Lord Justice]

The mods makes the difference. I'm not so sorry buying SH5. It's still playable.Ive been in the woods to long! stock for me.

[Badger Finn]

So I take it, if it's incomplete and there are no more patches being released it isn't worth buying then.

Depends...

On sale 50% off $68 NZ not cheap enough yet!

$20 then ill buy it and then ill open it up and start pulling out the crapola like the scripted missions and see what can be swapped edited and tweaked with SH3...As privateer stated its become a hobby figuring out what makes this game/sim series tick!

LMAO a corporation using free ware to fix the product they charge for!

:88)

A sign of the times "Corporate Welfare!"

[Gairith]

As always, it depends on what you want. Many people say they love it. Read what they say and if what it gives them is also what you want then go for it.

Others say it's okay. Read what they say and if it's enough for you then go for it.

The 'SH3 holdouts' want a complete war campaign with different u-boat types, plus many different merchant types. SH5 doesn't provide that...yet. Whether it can be made to remains to be seen.

Me, I just want the DRM to be gone so anybody can play it. Then I'll buy it, no questions asked. I probably won't play it much, since I'm one of the 'Multiple boats and whole war campaign' crowd. But I will look at the pretties, and I will see what can be done about ships and names.


The 'Holding Out' is not about being annoying. It's about the fact that a lot of people aren't allowed to play it at all. I can live with annoying. I refuse to live with tyrrany and domination.

My sentiments exactly.

[Madox58]

I refuse to live with tyrrany and domination.

I'm married.
I have to live with it.
:har:

[Sailor Steve]

I'm married.
I have to live with it.
:har:
:rotfl2:

But there are always options.

Suicide comes to mind. :O:

[mikeydredd]

I have two daughters - four and nine.

Tyranny and domination are the exact words that spring to mind.

And as for her Ladyship . . . !

As for SH5 I think it was only a matter of time that UbiSoft stopped any "official" support. Much more likely to have been sooner rather than later.

Surely now they have got nothing to lose by removing the DRM noose. Who knows - people might start buying it again.

Maybe that makes too much sense.

Dredd:arrgh!:

[Iron Budokan]

The 'Holding Out' is not about being annoying. It's about the fact that a lot of people aren't allowed to play it at all. I can live with annoying. I refuse to live with tyrrany and domination.

Very well said. :)

[Nordmann]

After all the negative feedback this game has received pre-launch/launch/post launch, I'm not surprised they have given up.

Good luck getting another SH, I doubt they'll risk it again.

[Dimitrius07]

As the new ComDev stated and elenaiba confirmed, there is no more team working on a patch for SH5. Both call the community to get hand on mods, to enhance the game. There is no patch planned "so far". Seems, as if our badest exspectations become true...

BAAM, there it is. The truth, directly in your face.

:o

:nope:

Let me finish this and say it like Michael did:

(SH5) This is it.

I told you and you didn`t listen, the last thing those monkeys cares about is clients. Got anything on they newest products?

[Shoe]

Ubi is packaging SHII, III, IV(+the mission pack) and V ( The Gold edition) together in one package at 50% off for a limited time. I suppose most of you know this by now. I am on the mailing list and I received the email today.

See there, Ubi hasn't forgot us they're still shaking the trees and raking the leaves. :woot:

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

...and milking us for all we got.:D

[Ducimus]

Ubi is packaging SHII, III, IV(+the mission pack) and V ( The Gold edition) together in one package at 50% off for a limited time. I suppose most of you know this by now. I am on the mailing list and I received the email today.

See there, Ubi hasn't forgot us they're still shaking the trees and raking the leaves. :woot:

And it's called....
Silent Hunter: Triton Class Bundle (http://shop.ubi.com/store/ubina/en_US/pd/ThemeID.8605600/productID.204002300/Silent-Hunter-Triton-Class-Bundle.html)

EDIT:

BTW, what in the hell is SH5 gold edition all about? I'm guessing its the usual copy plus the two patch's on one CD rebranded to get fleece some more cash out of people.

[mookiemookie]

They named it after a class of submarines that have essentially nothing to do with any of the games in the bundle.

Brilliant ubi marketing again. :doh:

[Sailor Steve]

Might work for some. Won't work with me. They know what they need to do to get my money, and once they do that they won't have to offer any tricky deals. I'll pay full price for it.

[Flaxpants]

Well I'm extremely happy with my shiny new SH3 game, which only cost a fiver. I'm also extremely happy that in some small way it's a finger in the face of Ubisoft and their DRM shennanigans. For what it's worth, I live in Thailand and can walk about 50m from where I am right now and pick up a fully functioning pirate copy of SH5 for 2 pounds UK- with no internet requirement, it's all over the place- there are even shops operating inside superstores like Big C and Tesco who will also sell me the copy game. Laughable!

[JScones]

They named it after a class of submarines that have essentially nothing to do with any of the games in the bundle.

Brilliant ubi marketing again. :doh:
No, you misunderstand. The naming has nothing to do with the British T Class submarine (or for that matter, USS Triton of the 1960s); given all the continuous analogies to motorcars here, it's clear to me that they really mean this kind of Triton Class...

http://www.colcrawford.com.au/mitsubishi/images/2009-05-newcar-mitsubishi-triton-4x2-lrg.jpg

See, it's like, well, if I buy a Mitsubishi Triton...

[joegrundman]

Well I'm extremely happy with my shiny new SH3 game, which only cost a fiver. I'm also extremely happy that in some small way it's a finger in the face of Ubisoft and their DRM shennanigans. For what it's worth, I live in Thailand and can walk about 50m from where I am right now and pick up a fully functioning pirate copy of SH5 for 2 pounds UK- with no internet requirement, it's all over the place- there are even shops operating inside superstores like Big C and Tesco who will also sell me the copy game. Laughable!

you got a tesco in nathon now? things have changed in samui!

[Flaxpants]

you got a tesco in nathon now? things have changed in samui!

Oh yes, and one in Chaweng, along with a Big C and Makros. The Thai's love them, sort of a leisure centre for them.....

[Jimbuna]

£67 for that SH pack sounds a little steep but it'll probably appeal to some people who are new to the genre and want the lot in one ourchase :hmmm:

[Reece]

Might work for some. Won't work with me. They know what they need to do to get my money, and once they do that they won't have to offer any tricky deals. I'll pay full price for it.You tell em Steve, I'm right behind you!:yeah:

[Reece]

See, it's like, well, if I buy a Mitsubishi Triton...Yes! do go on Jaesen!:yep:

[TDK1044]

Might work for some. Won't work with me. They know what they need to do to get my money, and once they do that they won't have to offer any tricky deals. I'll pay full price for it.

I'm with you, Steve. Once they release the 'Silent Hunter 5 no internet connection required ethical Edition' I'm in. :)

[Dimitrius07]

Offtopic


(http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/posthistory.php?p=1455990)Last edited by Takeda Shingen (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/posthistory.php?p=1455990); 07-30-2010 at 12:59 AM. Reason: Symbols used as profanity (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/posthistory.php?p=1455990)
(http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/posthistory.php?p=1455990)

What symbols and what profantry? If you want to ban people just because they don`t feet to your stereotypical views there is no reason to make up things:D. I wonder how low can some people go this days :up:. GOOD job!!!

Wait a second..... don`t tell me that Ubi$oft is a ..... religious sect. Oh my!

[Takeda Shingen]

Offtopic



What symbols and what profantry? If you want to ban people just because they don`t feet to your stereotypical views there is no reason to make up things:D. I wonder how low can some people go this days :up:. GOOD job!!!

Wait a second..... don`t tell me that Ubi$oft is a ..... religious sect. Oh my!

You used a series of symbols as a substitute for profanity. That is against the rules as stated in the FAQ. As such, they were removed and you were issued a warning. You can read all about it here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_new_faq_item_language

Your personal views are of no consequence to me and do not play into the matter.

The Management

[Dimitrius07]

You used a series of symbols as

Lies :yep:. You really want to start ovens? Don`t do it man, internet will fall appart without you :down:

[Reece]

Yeh!! Stop being an old party pooper Takeda!!:O::D

[Takeda Shingen]

Lies :yep:. You really want to start ovens? Don`t do it man, internet will fall appart without you :down:

Be advised that any further personal attacks will result in formal infractions.

Anyway, here's your original post. I expect that this will be the last time we will be discussing the matter.

I told you and you didn`t listen, the last thing those monkeys cares about is clients. Got anything on they newest piece of @@@@ products?

[stoneys-nutz]

It makes me sad when i see posts degenerating in to this sort of thing, it really is a load of old pony. (cockney slang).

Dimitrius07, take it on the chin and move on.

Takeda Shingen, don't be so pedantic.

(For those wondering what pony means, what rhymes with pony and trap ? ).

Thats my two bobs worth, now, can we please move on. :sunny:

[Dimitrius07]

What are you on about? Anyway, here's your original post. I expect that this will be the last time we will be discussing the matter.

You right! You just prove my point. One word censored completely. You can find much worse post here gone with silence, so i am going to asume that something deep lies behind this warning. I just wonder what is that :hmmm:
--------
Zombies................................:arrgh!:

[Sailor Steve]

Takeda Shingen, don't be so pedantic.
He's not being pedantic at all. There are rules and as a Moderator it is his job to enforce them.

Period.

[stoneys-nutz]

We will have to agree to disagree on that one.

Number two says it all for me.

pe·dan·tic

–adjective 1. ostentatious in one's learning.

2. overly concerned with minute details or formalisms.

[AVGWarhawk]

This thread has taken a curve. :hmmm:

[robbo180265]

A ban (derived from banishment (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/banishment)) is, generally, any decree (http://www.subsim.com/wiki/Decree) that prohibits (http://www.subsim.com/wiki/Prohibitionism) something.

:03:

[AVGWarhawk]

A ban (derived from banishment (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/banishment)) is, generally, any decree (http://www.subsim.com/wiki/Decree) that prohibits (http://www.subsim.com/wiki/Prohibitionism) something.

:03:

:har:

[TDK1044]

Are we there yet? The topic's this way.......

[krashkart]

The Ubisoft has perhaps decided to give up on SH5. Do we know that for certain?

[Nisgeis]

The Ubisoft has perhaps decided to give up on SH5. Do we know that for certain?

No we do not, hence the problem.

[jdkbph]

He's not being pedantic at all. There are rules and as a Moderator it is his job to enforce them.

Period.

I think you missed the point.

Dimitrius07 was chastised for substituting symbols for what was assumed to be off color or profane words... a common practice, BTW, widely accepted in the internet forum/bulletin board/social networking world when not used gratuitously.

Putting aside the fact that this requires someone (a mind reader perhaps?) to make a judgment as to just what the word was, and assuming no ulterior motive, precise interpretation (the definition of pedantic) and selective application of a necessarily subjective rule is what's at issue.

The latter point was brought home (to me at least) by stoneys-nutz with his use of Cockney slang.

In case you're not aware Cockney slang is a substitution exercise where a benign word or phrase is used in place of another, often off color or profane word or phrase... just as stoneys-nutz did in his post.

Why was that infraction not called out with a warning issued? The answer would most likely end with a comment such as "...good luck with that!"

JD

[TDK1044]

I think you missed the point.

Dimitrius07 was chastised for substituting symbols for what was assumed to be off color or profane words... a common practice, BTW, widely accepted in the internet forum/bulletin board/social networking world when not used gratuitously.

Putting aside the fact that this requires someone (a mind reader perhaps?) to make a judgment as to just what the word was, and assuming no ulterior motive, precise interpretation (the definition of pedantic) and selective application of a necessarily subjective rule is what's at issue.

The latter point was brought home (to me at least) by stoneys-nutz with his use of Cockney slang.

In case you're not aware Cockney slang is a substitution exercise where a benign word or phrase is used in place of another, often off color or profane word or phrase... just as stoneys-nutz did in his post.

Why was that infraction not called out with a warning issued? The answer would most likely end with a comment such as "...good luck with that!"

JD


It doesn't matter that the use of symbols is "a common practice, BTW, widely accepted in the internet forum/bulletin board/social networking world when not used gratuitously."

The rules of this Forum state:

"Please use language that you would use around your mother. No vulgarities, obscenities, hate speech, or foul language. Do not use *******ing w*rds with aster*cks, that's the same thing as vulgar languge. Express yourself with respect to others."

So, when Dimitrius 07 states:

"I told you and you didn`t listen, the last thing those monkeys cares about is clients. Got anything on they newest piece of @@@@ products?"

I would say that the above rule is being broken. The Moderator made him aware of that fact. Simple.

Can we move on now?

[Gairith]

Might work for some. Won't work with me. They know what they need to do to get my money, and once they do that they won't have to offer any tricky deals. I'll pay full price for it.

Ditto

[Nisgeis]

In case you're not aware Cockney slang is a substitution exercise where a benign word or phrase is used in place of another, often off color or profane word or phrase... just as stoneys-nutz did in his post.

Squealer! Now he's in for it when the Takeda gets back.

[AVGWarhawk]

Oh cock a snook


http://www.phrases.org.uk/images/silhouette.jpg

[jdkbph]

Oh cock a snook



I think I've just been aster*cked [sic]!!

:rotfl2:

JD

[Dimitrius07]

A ban (derived from banishment (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/banishment)) is, generally, any decree (http://www.subsim.com/wiki/Decree) that prohibits (http://www.subsim.com/wiki/Prohibitionism) something.

:03:

Well its seems like you well inform, wonder why :yeah:

[Sailor Steve]

I think I've just been aster*cked [sic]!!

:rotfl2:

JD
Better to be aster*cked than asteR*ckr*lled. :O:

[robbo180265]

Better to be aster*cked than asteR*ckr*lled. :O:

:har:

[longam]

http://growabrain.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/dancing_fool.gif

Just hanging in the corner...dancing my asterisk off

[Ducimus]

Are we there yet? The topic's this way.......


Ok.... back on topic!


Silent Hunter 5
http://velossus.com/app/webroot/img/left_4_dead.jpg
"The Hold Out crowd"
No Patch's, No super Mod's, No problem.

[Dimitrius07]

I would say that the above rule is being broken. The Moderator made him aware of that fact. Simple.

Can we move on now?

I got a question before you move.....on. What is it for you to make such details over my message? I don`t remember myself asking our opinion about it. Mind your own business and stay away from "Oven expert", it may be to hot for YA :yeah: .

[Nisgeis]

To post on a discussion forum is to invite discussion of anything you post.

[Madox58]

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Stuff/popcorn2.gif

Yea, I'll probably get a skwinty eyed warning again.
But I'm not the one that keeps this sort of 'Battle stuff' going on.

[Ducimus]

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Stuff/popcorn2.gif


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OjcRBoCbSg
:D

[Sailor Steve]

I got a question before you move.....on. What is it for you to make such details over my message? I don`t remember myself asking our opinion about it. Mind your own business and stay away from "Oven expert", it may be to hot for YA :yeah: .
Anyone can give an opinion, any time, especially where violation of the rules is observed. He doesn't need your permission, or for you to ask. And keeping this forum clean and mature is all of our business, so he is minding his with his post.

And what exactly is "Oven expert"?

[Madox58]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6uQlif-4eIoxpMKI7TZ4dVBfEr1bjf8gh-R8Kl664jQbuWvo&t=1&usg=__2y2ThHt0SSBFZso3unbqJt6tEto=

[robbo180265]

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w181/robbo180265/facepalmsub.jpg

[Dimitrius07]

Anyone can give an opinion, any time, especially where violation of the rules is observed. He doesn't need your permission, or for you to ask. And keeping this forum clean and mature is all of our business, so he is minding his with his post.


Last time i done the same i was send to the brig for basically nothing :D. Is this your idea of "clean and mature", silence people just because they have different opinions or don`t fit to your Guitar fantasy world? Should i mention how you sound like right now, no so hard to figure out.

[Sailor Steve]

Last time i done the same i was send to the brig for basically nothing :D. Is this your idea of "clean and mature", silence people just because they have different opinions or don`t fit to your Guitar fantasy world? Should i mention how you sound like right now, no so hard to figure out.
I will explain to you what I seem to have to explain to so many. You were not sent to the brig for having a different opinion, you were sent to the brig for being rude and insulting, and crossing the line where the rules are concerned. There is a big difference, which you don't seem to understand.

As in this case. Yet again you break the rules, and when a Moderator changes your post you claim you are being attacked. When the Moderator defends his actions you attack him. When someone else pitches in with his opinion you attack him. You also are equating enforcement of the rules with "ovens". Other people are being polite and respectful. You are calling people names and slyly comparing them to nazis.

TDK expressed a support of the rules. You responded with "mind your own business". I suppose when your rude and overbearing behavior gets you brigged again you will yet again claim you were attacked for simply "having a different opinion".

It's not about what you think, or even about what you say. It's about how you say it. You need to learn to discuss things in a polite and respectful manner, like an adult.

[Takeda Shingen]

^^^ Words that every forum member should take to heart. On that note, it is time that this thread close.