15th anniversary of Srebenica massacre

[caspofungin]

post title says it all

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/10589614.stm

[Skybird]

Another day of shame for UN blue helmets.

Day of shame for the Dutch military as well.

Lessons to be learned:

1. Think about your rules of engagement at least twice.

2. Don't send a military expedition corps without the ability to project superior firepower.

3. In military matters, never accept to depend on the good willingness of your opponent.


4. Pick your side wisely.

[DarkFish]

4. Pick your side wisely.lol :lol:

Anyway, they're IMHO much too often trying to blame it all on the Dutch military. As if we were the ones who did all the killing.
We may have not exactly acted valiantly, but we can't be blamed for the killings as we didn't kill anyone.

[Skybird]

By not stepping in when it should have done that - to hell with the UN - the dutch military, which was in place, contributed to the massacre becoming a reality.

If one were in place although one was not potent to defend that position, that rates as a mistake of the Dutch, and the UN. If you accept - no matter your motives and considerations - to play the part of the guardian- you guard. Period. If you are not willing or not capable to do that, do not claim that role for yourself.

I think the whole Western policy in that era and in that part of the world was seriously misled and distorted.

[Betonov]

the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
skybird is right, being able and not doing anything is the same as handing the AK's to the serbs yourself.

one of my co-workers, a bosnian... the germans would say gastarbeiter... was a survivor of Srebrenica. Couldnt speak for 5 years. we dont know how he survived. we were just given strict instructions not to ask any questions so we dont upset him or anything

[krashkart]

To a former coworker; I remember.

[Skybird]

skybird is right, being able and not doing anything


That is not my point.

My point is that the West, NATO and the UN, and the Dutch, brought themselves into a position where they probably could have done nothing indeed.

Either you go in in force, or you don't. Either you give the troops you send the means they need to enforce their objectives, or you do not send them at all, and thus do not make any claims at all. Symbolism is no compensation for lacking ability.

Whether or not the Dutch could have achieved something by symbollically making a stand and challeniging the Serbs, forcing them to commit the massacre only at the price of opening fire at the UN blue helmets, is something different. Morally, as UN blue helmets, they would have had the moral obligation to do right that. Militarily, it was stupid to run the mission in a way where one depended on symbolical gestures.

I hate symbolical gestures. I hate them in politics. In military issues. In economis, in ecologics. I hate symbolical gestures for what they are: stupid meaningless idiotic pathetic theatralic symbolic gestures posturing without having a substance in themselves.

Remember that scene from the first Indiana Jones movie where Indy faces that sabre-swinging man, just draws his pistol and shoots him down? That'S how I think about pathos, boasting and symbolics: shooting it down, and moving on and not wasting any more thought on this nonsense.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Lessons to be learned again:

1) Never send the UN to do the job of a professional fighting force.
2) Refer to rule 1 next time something like this happens.

[Betonov]

That is not my point.
OK, also agree with this point

[Betonov]

Lessons to be learned again:

1) Never send the UN to do the job of a professional fighting force.
2) Refer to rule 1 next time something like this happens.
Just make someone like Teddy Roosevelt as secretary general, Kim Jong Il would be pissing his brown and red pants

[krashkart]

Just make someone like Teddy Roosevelt as secretary general, Kim Jong Il would be pissing his brown and red pants

How about R. Lee Ermey? He'd scare the daylights out of anybody. :D

[Oberon]

How about R. Lee Ermey? He'd scare the daylights out of anybody. :D

x2 :yep::yep:

[Betonov]

How about R. Lee Ermey? He'd scare the daylights out of anybody. :D
-The president of iran has the stage: we will not bow to international pressure...
-WHATS YOUR MAJOR MALLFUNCTION NUMBNUTS !!!!!!!
-I am so s-s-s-orry mr s-s-s-secretary general, I meant to say we open borders, allow inspectors and we shutdown all nuclear programs

[thorn69]

How about R. Lee Ermey? He'd scare the daylights out of anybody. :D


I wonder why? I think it's his eyebrows! :hmmm:

[krashkart]

I wonder why? I think it's his eyebrows! :hmmm:

Definitely the eyebrows. :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Definitely the eyebrows. :yep:

Well it certainly wouldn't be the lipstick :DL

[krashkart]

Well it certainly wouldn't be the lipstick :DL

Agreed, although that would crank up the intimidation factor. The Gunny in drag?? RUN AWAY!! HE"S GONE MAD!! :DL

[TLAM Strike]

Remember that scene from the first Indiana Jones movie where Indy faces that sabre-swinging man, just draws his pistol and shoots him down?

Sky do you know the true origin on that scene? Originally there was going to be a big Saber vs. Whip fight but Ford (and most of the crew) at a bout of food poisoning and was unable to do any major stunts. So Ford suggested to Spielberg that he just shoot the guy and that was what ended up being filmed.

[krashkart]

Sky do you know the true origin on that scene? Originally there was going to be a big Saber vs. Whip fight but Ford (and most of the crew) at a bout of food poisoning and was unable to do any major stunts. So Ford suggested to Spielberg that he just shoot the guy and that was what ended up being filmed.

One of the best scenes in the movie. :yep:

[Skybird]

Sky do you know the true origin on that scene? Originally there was going to be a big Saber vs. Whip fight but Ford (and most of the crew) at a bout of food poisoning and was unable to do any major stunts. So Ford suggested to Spielberg that he just shoot the guy and that was what ended up being filmed.

Yes I know that background story for that scene. I even was about to tell it, but said to myself "what for...".

[HunterICX]

How about R. Lee Ermey? He'd scare the daylights out of anybody. :D

:yeah:

If only he was a General :rock:

HunterICX

[Betonov]

Sky do you know the true origin on that scene? Originally there was going to be a big Saber vs. Whip fight but Ford (and most of the crew) at a bout of food poisoning and was unable to do any major stunts. So Ford suggested to Spielberg that he just shoot the guy and that was what ended up being filmed.
do you also know that the guy who played the swordman was so pissed of (cause he was training for weeks) that they put him on the poster just to appease him

http://www.driveinmovie.com/NY/HunterMountain/schedule/Raiders.jpg
upper right head

P.S. Karen Alen looks hot on this poster

[TLAM Strike]

do you also know that the guy who played the swordman was so pissed of (cause he was training for weeks) that they put him on the poster just to appease him

http://www.driveinmovie.com/NY/HunterMountain/schedule/Raiders.jpg
upper right head

P.S. Karen Alen looks hot on this poster

Yep! He was pissed. In an interview I read once they said in the first take were Indy shoots him he took five minutes to die.

EDIT: Speaking of the Gunny anyone see his new Geico commercial?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APwfZYO1di4

[krashkart]

Yep, saw that commercial. Instant classic. :yep:

[Skybird]

do you also know that the guy who played the swordman was so pissed of (cause he was training for weeks) that they put him on the poster just to appease him


No, that I did not know. :har: You don't pull my leg, yes?

[Jimbuna]

No, that I did not know. :har: You don't pull my leg, yes?

Yes it is true :DL