North American Suckup Adminstration...

[SteamWake]

So lets take the Space out of NASA.... :o


NASA Administrator Charles Bolden said in a recent interview that his "foremost" mission as the head of America's space exploration agency is to improve relations with the Muslim world.

Though international diplomacy would seem well outside NASA's orbit, Bolden said in an interview with Al Jazeera (http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/talktojazeera/2010/07/201071122234471970.html) that strengthening those ties was among the top tasks President Obama assigned him. He said better interaction with the Muslim world would ultimately advance space travel.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/05/nasa-chief-frontier-better-relations-muslims/

Okay I understand that maybe someday Burka wearing women may be in space but dont we already have forigen relations offices?

[Betonov]

Don't know should I laugh or cry. And I'm not even american.

[Sailor Steve]

Gee, and here I always thought the foremost mission of America's space exploration agency was to...explore space.

Silly me. :doh:

[Weiss Pinguin]

"Islam... The Final Frontier..."

[TLAM Strike]

Damn it that is a violation of General Order #1!

Non interference with less advanced civilizations:

No identification of self or mission. No interference with the social development... No references to space, other worlds, or advanced civilizations.Starfleet Command will hear of this!

[UnderseaLcpl]

There's a lot of space inside some Muslims' heads. Sounds like a legit mission to me:up:

[August]

Just picture Jackie Gleason saying:

"Some day Mohammed, pow, right to the MOON!"

[SteamWake]

In a scathing reaction former NASA Chief...


"NASA ... represents the best of America. Its purpose is not to inspire Muslims or any other cultural entity," Michael Griffin, who served as NASA administrator during the latter half of the Bush administration, told FoxNews.com.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/06/nasa-official-walks-claim-muslim-outreach-foremost-mission/

[tater]

This should not be A goal of NASA, much less an important goal.

WTF. Seriously, WTF.

[razark]

Oh, what the hell...

I mean why not? It'll give us something to do while we're busy not going anywhere.
:nope:

[breadcatcher101]

The reason for this is simple. It is so easy to see.

The Space Shuttle Program is at an end. We are going to need another way to provide transport to and from orbit.

Obama intends to replace the Shuttle with flying carpets. Who else but the Islamic Peoples of the word know who to operate those tricky things? The answer of course is no one.

Enter Iran.

With its know how of making large Persian rugs--world famous--the flying carpet can achieve things that have only began to be dreamed of. Vast Persian rugs would be able to haul large payloads into space and later perhaps onward to mars and beyond.

Best of all it is all green friendly, no pollution, and when the flying carpet fleet becomes too aged to carry on they can be sold off in second hand shops to old aunts who need a rug for their summer room.

A win win for everyone.

[AVGWarhawk]

The reason for this is simple. It is so easy to see.

The Space Shuttle Program is at an end. We are going to need another way to provide transport to and from orbit.

Obama intends to replace the Shuttle with flying carpets. Who else but the Islamic Peoples of the word know who to operate those tricky things? The answer of course is no one.

Enter Iran.

With its know how of making large Persian rugs--world famous--the flying carpet can achieve things that have only began to be dreamed of. Vast Persian rugs would be able to haul large payloads into space and later perhaps onward to mars and beyond.

Best of all it is all green friendly, no pollution, and when the flying carpet fleet becomes too aged to carry on they can be sold off in second hand shops to old aunts who need a rug for their summer room.

A win win for everyone.

I would have to agree with this. Why not, there are so may other crack headed notions on the table this one fits right in. I want my carpet made with the finest wool. :stare:

[FIREWALL]

I don't mean to say the OB administration is out of touch with NASA and the space program.

I mean to say their out of touch with REALITY.!!! :haha:

[krashkart]

If the White House wants to use NASA as an outreach to the Middle East, more power to them. I truly hope that their efforts to spread a better understanding of our strange and exotic civilization succeeds with beneficial results for all involved parties.

And while they are at it I would certainly hope that they stay on track with NASA's intended mission of exploring space. Mars is a long, long ways away from the primitive ISS missions.

[Betonov]

What we need is another space race.
If ESA (european space agency) would also get their thumbs out their behinds and give a decent competition to NASA, situation on both sides of the atlantic would improve

[krashkart]

What we need is another space race.
If ESA (european space agency) would also get their thumbs out their behinds and give a decent competition to NASA, situation on both sides of the atlantic would improve


As long as it doesn't involve ICBM development this time. :up:

[razark]

As long as it doesn't involve ICBM development this time. :up:
Well, if we ever intend to get to Mars, we're going to need Inter-Planetary Ballistic Missiles. ICBMs just would be enough.

[Betonov]

As long as it doesn't involve ICBM development this time. :up:
that is actually the Individual Cab Ballistic Mobility system, one person shuttles for high speed EU-USA transit. You sit inside the rocket and get launched towards your destination

[robbo180265]

"Charles Bolden, the Nasa administrator, talks to Al Jazeera's Imran Garda about the US relationship with the Middle East after Obama's so-called Cairo initiative, reaching out to the Muslim world, international contribution to the space mission, the constellation project, Nasa's challenges, militarisation of space, the US leadership role in space, and life in space".


Out of context much?


If the White House wants to use NASA as an outreach to the Middle East, more power to them. I truly hope that their efforts to spread a better understanding of our strange and exotic civilization succeeds with beneficial results for all involved parties.

And while they are at it I would certainly hope that they stay on track with NASA's intended mission of exploring space. Mars is a long, long ways away from the primitive ISS missions.

Couldn't agree with you more (as usual):yeah:

[krashkart]

that is actually the Individual Cab Ballistic Mobility system, one person shuttles for high speed EU-USA transit. You sit inside the rocket and get launched towards your destination

:haha:

That does come with braking chutes, I hope? :DL Would make for a rather messy arrival without them. :hmmm:

[Betonov]

:haha:

That does come with braking chutes, I hope? :DL Would make for a rather messy arrival without them. :hmmm:
a giant baseball glove on US side and a giant fishing net on EU side

[Moeceefus]

This is what happens when you try to fly on just a left wing.

[krashkart]

a giant baseball glove on US side and a giant fishing net on EU side

Aim for this and see if you can get it to roll around:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Uniroyal_tire.jpg/800px-Uniroyal_tire.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Park,_Michigan#World.27s_largest_tire)


:D

[Buddahaid]

Sounds to me like a fishing expedition for investors, and let's not forget that Persia was at the cutting edge of scientific thought way back when.

[Moeceefus]

I hear NASA is aiming towards a space colony mmo game. If it was any good that would be a fine way to raise funds and educate the masses.

http://news.bigdownload.com/2009/02/19/feature-first-look-at-nasas-unreal-engine-3-based-mmo/

There is a free early concept game on Steam now, though I have not tried it.

http://ipp.gsfc.nasa.gov/mmo/

[thorn69]

Terrorism in space?! :doh:

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii101/kitty2318/Misc/AchmedtheDeadTerrorist.jpg

[Betonov]

I hear NASA is aiming towards a space colony mmo game. If it was any good that would be a fine way to raise funds and educate the masses.

http://news.bigdownload.com/2009/02/19/feature-first-look-at-nasas-unreal-engine-3-based-mmo/

There is a free early concept game on Steam now, though I have not tried it.

http://ipp.gsfc.nasa.gov/mmo/

as far as I heard is going to be free, like americas army. but situation could have changed

[Moeceefus]

as far as I heard is going to be free, like americas army. but situation could have changed



The concept on Steam is free, but the big one they're working on using the Unreal 3 engine will be subscription based.

[Betonov]

The concept on Steam is free, but the big one they're working on using the Unreal 3 engine will be subscription based.
thanks :up:

[krashkart]

I hear NASA is aiming towards a space colony mmo game. If it was any good that would be a fine way to raise funds and educate the masses.

http://news.bigdownload.com/2009/02/19/feature-first-look-at-nasas-unreal-engine-3-based-mmo/

There is a free early concept game on Steam now, though I have not tried it.

http://ipp.gsfc.nasa.gov/mmo/

This I can jive with. :rolleyes::D


Also:

This game will also offer gamers a look back at the history of NASA. The team is working on historical missions that will allow gamers to relive things like the Apollo missions from a first-person perspective – something no Hollywood film or Discovery Channel documentary can compete with.

Very cool. :DL

[tater]

If the White House wants to use NASA as an outreach to the Middle East, more power to them. I truly hope that their efforts to spread a better understanding of our strange and exotic civilization succeeds with beneficial results for all involved parties.

And while they are at it I would certainly hope that they stay on track with NASA's intended mission of exploring space. Mars is a long, long ways away from the primitive ISS missions.

Look, saying that education, even worldwide is A goal of NASA is fine, just fine. Saying that it is an important goal or focus to reach out to medieval religious nuts is, well, insane.

How's the NASA reach out tot he Luddites coming? How about reaching out to the "moon landing was faked" whackos?

[krashkart]

Look, saying that education, even worldwide is A goal of NASA is fine, just fine. Saying that it is an important goal or focus to reach out to medieval religious nuts is, well, insane.

How's the NASA reach out tot he Luddites coming? How about reaching out to the "moon landing was faked" whackos?

:har: Yeah, the conspiracy nuts. I don't think they can be changed. They've already made up their mind that the government pulled off the biggest hoax in human history. Reality escapes them I guess. To each their own strange beliefs. :DL

Personally I would have liked to see another US moon shot per the previous administration's initiative. Unfortunately the current administration scrapped it and as such that may have set the space program back twenty or thirty years. I can gripe about that all day and still not feel any better for it. *poof*

I guess that the cultural differences between the tribal mentality of (much of) the Middle East and our own equally strange and bass-ackwards mentality are vast at this point. The way it looks to me, the Barack of Obama is trying to bridge those gaps in any way he can. More power to him because the road ahead looks to be long and treacherous. I think sometimes that our great-grandkids (on both sides) will still be dueling it out before the dust can settle. Somehow this great divide in ideologies we see today must be resolved with benefit to both parties in order for our species to progress. If it requires using the best and brightest in our nation to reach out on some level, so much the better.

...As long as it doesn't sap NASA's potential. :-?

[razark]

Yeah, the conspiracy nuts. I don't think they can be changed. They've already made up their mind that the government pulled off the biggest hoax in human history. Reality escapes them I guess. To each their own strange beliefs.
But it's so much fun yelling to the folks on the tram that it was all done on a sound stage.:D

Personally I would have liked to see another US moon shot per the previous administration's initiative. Unfortunately the current administration scrapped it and as such that may have set the space program back twenty or thirty years. I can gripe about that all day and still not feel any better for it. *poof*
But doing a moon shot would be setting the program back. We did it 40 years ago. What would doing it again prove? That we can still do what we did 40 years ago?
If we want to make progress in space exploration, we need to go places we haven't been yet. The moon offers very little to us right now. Our next goal should be setting up a sustainable outpost on Mars. Planting flags and leaving footprints is not going to get us anywhere.

[tater]

Why should I, an American taxpayer, fund ANY education in Muslim countries that presumably will only go towards building missiles, or other things to murder unbelievers?

Or am I missing a point?

[razark]

Why should I, an American taxpayer, fund ANY education in Muslim countries that presumably will only go towards building missiles, or other things to murder unbelievers?

Or am I missing a point?

There's a lot that NASA does besides the space flight part. That's just the most visible. Much research is done that applies to other areas. One of the greatest benefits is the spinoff technologies that get used for completely different applications.

Rocket science isn't just used for rockets.

[Betonov]

Why should I, an American taxpayer, fund ANY education in Muslim countries that presumably will only go towards building missiles, or other things to murder unbelievers?

Or am I missing a point?
you shouldn't. altough educating those regions might moderate muslims but as the thread says: this is not the job of NASA

[krashkart]

But it's so much fun yelling to the folks on the tram that it was all done on a sound stage.:D

:rotfl2:


But doing a moon shot would be setting the program back. We did it 40 years ago. What would doing it again prove? That we can still do what we did 40 years ago?
If we want to make progress in space exploration, we need to go places we haven't been yet. The moon offers very little to us right now. Our next goal should be setting up a sustainable outpost on Mars. Planting flags and leaving footprints is not going to get us anywhere.This is the 'moon shot' that I was referring to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_program

President George W. Bush (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush) originally offered the proposal[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_program#cite_note-NASAaddress-19) as a way to "establish an extended human presence on the Moon" to "vastly reduce the costs of further space exploration." Inclusive to this would be the "harvesting and processing of lunar soil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_soil) into rocket fuel or breathable air." According to Bush, experience gained could help "develop and test new approaches and technologies and systems"[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_program#cite_note-NASAaddress-19) to begin a "sustainable course of long-term exploration."[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_program#cite_note-BushView-20)

It would be more than just landing a couple of guys and a dune buggy on the surface of the moon. :D

[razark]

This is the 'moon shot' that I was referring to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_program

Meh. The moon is not very useful. Mars is the target we should be aiming for.

[SteamWake]

Why should I, an American taxpayer, fund ANY education in Muslim countries that presumably will only go towards building missiles, or other things to murder unbelievers?

Or am I missing a point?

Its all about 'hearts and minds' there are plenty of pepole in the Muslim comunity whom are not muderous extremist. Unfortunatly your not going to sway the latter with good intentions.

But to me its simple .. the space administration is about space and the foriegen relations departments are about forigen relations.

Unfortunatly I think the previous poster whom implied 'give them something to do' may be closer to the truth that you might want to think.

Im guessing the reasoning goes like this NASA has good relations with a number of forigen factions. NASA got smacked up with the program roll backs and yea look to loose thousands of jobs. So why not take advantage of those good releations and make a few jobs while there at it... Very few.

Then theres the enevitable path of the Muslim community getting 'offended' because we gave them this or that technology but witheld other key technology due to security concearns. So there goes the good working relationship with NASA.

[TLAM Strike]

Meh. The moon is not very useful. Mars is the target we should be aiming for.

Since they found water on Luna it can be a useful stop over for any Mars mission since water is useful not just for drinking but as fuel. Luna's lower gravity makes it easier to transfer fuel to say a Mars bound spaceship being built a L1 than sending that fuel from Earth.

Also its strategic, I hope Iran or China get it in their heads that a mass driver there pointed at Earth is a good idea. I think keeping Americans and our allies on Luna is a good way to maintain its demilitarized status.

[Platapus]

I think that NASA should concentrate on building satellites that work.

Once they get that down, then we can work on the international marketing BS.

[krashkart]

Since they found water on Luna it can be a useful stop over for any Mars mission since water is useful not just for drinking but as fuel. Luna's lower gravity makes it easier to transfer fuel to say a Mars bound spaceship being built a L1 than sending that fuel from Earth.

Also its strategic, I hope Iran or China get it in their heads that a mass driver there pointed at Earth is a good idea. I think keeping Americans and our allies on Luna is a good way to maintain its demilitarized status.

:up:

[razark]

Since they found water on Luna it can be a useful stop over for any Mars mission since water is useful not just for drinking but as fuel. Luna's lower gravity makes it easier to transfer fuel to say a Mars bound spaceship being built a L1 than sending that fuel from Earth.
A moon base makes no sense in going to Mars. The energy required to go from LEO to Lunar orbit to Mars orbit is much higher than LEO directly to Mars. It makes as much sense as driving from New York to Washington D.C. by stopping for gas in Dallas. Sure, it might be cheaper to get the gas there, but getting there doesn't make it worth it.

Water has been found on the moon, but not in large enough quantities to make it worthwhile. You'll end up importing it to the moon in much greater quantities than you will producing it on site, using up fuel to haul it there. Imagine using a supertanker to move a single barrel of oil. Quite inefficient. Mars has much higher quantities of water. Technology has already been demonstrated that can produce methane fuel and oxidizer to fuel ships. Mars would also make a better springboard to future missions to the asteroid belt and outer planets. The higher gravity and existing atmosphere, along with a rotational speed giving it a day of slightly over 24 hours, make it much easier for humans to operate. The moon has a 28 day day, with quite extreme temperature variations. The almost standard length day also means that farming would be easier to do on Mars, meaning that you would be able to produce more food locally, instead of having to import it from Earth. The available mineral resources on Mars also make production of building materials much easier than on the Moon.

Also its strategic, I hope Iran or China get it in their heads that a mass driver there pointed at Earth is a good idea. I think keeping Americans and our allies on Luna is a good way to maintain its demilitarized status.
That is one angle to think about. I don't think we'll need to worry about the mass driver for a few years yet, though.

[antikristuseke]

Azis the Combat Fighter!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyl9FMHRfOE

[TLAM Strike]

A moon base makes no sense in going to Mars. The energy required to go from LEO to Lunar orbit to Mars orbit is much higher than LEO directly to Mars. It makes as much sense as driving from New York to Washington D.C. by stopping for gas in Dallas. Sure, it might be cheaper to get the gas there, but getting there doesn't make it worth it. Not if they use the ITN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Transport_Network) for the trip from Earth Orbit to Luna. Then its free (just takes time.

That is one angle to think about. I don't think we'll need to worry about the mass driver for a few years yet, though. I don't know, the USN is working on an impressive rail gun right now. :hmmm:

[krashkart]

I don't know, the USN is working on an impressive rail gun right now. :hmmm:

Yes, all we need now are myomer bundles and neural control interfaces. :D

[razark]

Not if they use the ITN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Transport_Network) for the trip from Earth Orbit to Luna. Then its free (just takes time.
But it still doesn't make a lot of sense to go there. Much better to build a semi-self sufficient outpost at Mars, then a high-maintenance one on the Moon. We can always go back to the moon later.

I don't know, the USN is working on an impressive rail gun right now.
And how soon until they build a lunar emplacement for it? Building a gun is one thing. Putting it on the Moon is another.

[TLAM Strike]

Yes, all we need now are myomer bundles and neural control interfaces. :D Don't want to make it too sophisticated else it try and teach its operators they don't need to be servants to Earth governance. ;)

But it still doesn't make a lot of sense to go there. Much better to build a semi-self sufficient outpost at Mars, then a high-maintenance one on the Moon. We can always go back to the moon later. The harshness of Luna can work for it as an outpost. Think solar collectors. What are they made of? Silicon. Lunar regolith contains lots of Silica that can be refined in to Silicon. So now that we got the mother of all solar farms on Luna what do we do?

We hook it to a laser...

... no it is not going to be my "Death Star".... (that comes latter... :03:)

we shoot it as the rear end of spaceships to propel them! Either hitting solar sails allowing the photons of the laser to push them or hitting propellant on the spaceship burning it instead of using a (heavy) engine on the ship.

And how soon until they build a lunar emplacement for it? Building a gun is one thing. Putting it on the Moon is another. Emplacement? Theoretical it could put it's self on the moon. Jon's law cuts both ways. ;)

Stick a big metal rod in ground, stick the rail gun around it (like a ramrod in a musket) then fire the rail gun at an insane power level. :o :cool:

[razark]

The harshness of Luna can work for it as an outpost. Think solar collectors. What are they made of? Silicon. Lunar regolith contains lots of Silica that can be refined in to Silicon. So now that we got the mother of all solar farms on Luna what do we do?

We hook it to a laser...

... no it is not going to be my "Death Star".... (that comes latter... :03:)

we shoot it as the rear end of spaceships to propel them! Either hitting solar sails allowing the photons of the laser to push them or hitting propellant on the spaceship burning it instead of using a (heavy) engine on the ship.
I don't really see how using the laser to ignite propellant would gain you anything, since most of the mass that you're accelerating is still going to be propellant. And I'm not familiar with any really workable solar sail materials (yet). Also, your solar collector will only be working half the time. The rest of the time, it will be on the dark side of the moon. How well would that coincide with being able to point it in the direction you want to push the spacecraft?

Oh well, either way, Moon or Mars, it's not going to happen anyway. Not any time soon, on government funding. Maybe if some rich folks could start investing in it, without having to worry about seeing a return on it in the near future.

Emplacement? Theoretical it could put it's self on the moon. Jon's law cuts both ways.

Stick a big metal rod in ground, stick the rail gun around it (like a ramrod in a musket) then fire the rail gun at an insane power level.
My comments were based on the hypothetical Iranian/Chinese mass driver you mentioned. Do they have the technology to build it and get it there?

[TLAM Strike]

I don't really see how using the laser to ignite propellant would gain you anything, since most of the mass that you're accelerating is still going to be propellant. Free floating Hydrogen gathered from space collected via ramscoop comes to mind. Too bad its as yet beyond our technological proficiency.

And I'm not familiar with any really workable solar sail materials (yet). Also, your solar collector will only be working half the time. The rest of the time, it will be on the dark side of the moon. How well would that coincide with being able to point it in the direction you want to push the spacecraft?A series of stations around the Lunar equator would provide power all month long, or one mobile station on a massive crawler. Reflect the beam off a mirror in Polar orbit to direct it to a ship out of the LOS.

Oh well, either way, Moon or Mars, it's not going to happen anyway. Not any time soon, on government funding. Maybe if some rich folks could start investing in it, without having to worry about seeing a return on it in the near future. Sadly true... :cry:


My comments were based on the hypothetical Iranian/Chinese mass driver you mentioned. Do they have the technology to build it and get it there? China is obviously behind us unless they are doing it totally in secret. Iran would need to buy it from someone.

[breadcatcher101]

For those of you concerned about the a new program involving some sort of weapons system I am afraid my earlier post about flying carpets does in fact have a very capable weapons system, delivered by carpet bombing of course!

We at one time did have a program to reach Mars by the mid '80's. This was way back in the mid '60's. At the time it was all on paper of course and got cancelled due to budget cuts.

I think this was a good idea at the time. Putting ships in orbit to deploy sats, Skylab, all that reaped much more than a trip to Mars. What has always concerned me was the fact that we have been very careful to prevent microbes from being introduced back to Earth yet until recently we have not done so in introducing Earth microbes elsewhere.

It is possible we have already killed some sort of life on Mars with earlier landings in this way.

I feel the number one goal should be to get a replacement program for the shuttle and maintain it.

[razark]

We at one time did have a program to reach Mars by the mid '80's. This was way back in the mid '60's. At the time it was all on paper of course and got cancelled due to budget cuts.
If the Russians had beat us to the Moon, we'd probably have gone to Mars. Apollo has always annoyed me for that reason. One of mankind's greatest technological achievements, and it was nothing but a pissing contest with the Russians. We went, we won the race, and then we quit.

What has always concerned me was the fact that we have been very careful to prevent microbes from being introduced back to Earth yet until recently we have not done so in introducing Earth microbes elsewhere.

It is possible we have already killed some sort of life on Mars with earlier landings in this way.
If I recall correctly, this was one line of thinking that went into the Viking landers. The scientists running tests for life were concerned that any microbes from Earth would throw off the results, so they were quite careful to eliminate them.

I feel the number one goal should be to get a replacement program for the shuttle and maintain it.
I think NASA should be in the research and exploration business. NASA, using its government funding, should research and develop the technologies that are not viable in the commercial sphere. They should also run the exploration missions that private industry would not be willing to undertake. As new technologies and materials are developed, they could be licensed, sold, or given to private industries, and the private sector could take over running commercial launches and operations. Perhaps allow contractor companies that work with NASA first grab at new technology. For example, NASA says "Boeing, help us develop this new Hozenfartzen rocket engine, and you get a 5 year exclusive license once we release it". Have NASA build the space station, and then rent space on it for companies to do their own research. (That might be hard to do, what with all the international agreements involved.) If a company wants to develop a tourist industry, let them rent time at a docking port, and charge for oxygen, water, etc. Allow private industry a way to provide funds to maintain the station, and NASA can move on to their next project.

[TLAM Strike]

I feel the number one goal should be to get a replacement program for the shuttle and maintain it. Oh please no! NASA ignore him! That cursed thing has kept us stuck in LEO far too long. Leave LEO "Scuttles" to the Private Industry while NASA "Boldly Goes". We don't need another shuttle we need something better and more versatile.

If the Russians had beat us to the Moon, we'd probably have gone to Mars. Apollo has always annoyed me for that reason. One of mankind's greatest technological achievements, and it was nothing but a pissing contest with the Russians. We went, we won the race, and then we quit.
Funny thing when we beat the Russians to the Moon, they switched over to "beating" us in LEO with space stations so they could test the endurance of hardware and humans for a long trip to Mars. But Star Trek was then canceled and everyone forgot why we were going to Mars... to have sex with green skinned alien babes...

Yes I place the failure of manned spaceflight squarely on the shoulders of the National Broadcasting Company... :stare:

[UnderseaLcpl]

I think NASA should be in the research and exploration business. NASA, using its government funding, should research and develop the technologies that are not viable in the commercial sphere. They should also run the exploration missions that private industry would not be willing to undertake. As new technologies and materials are developed, they could be licensed, sold, or given to private industries, and the private sector could take over running commercial launches and operations. Perhaps allow contractor companies that work with NASA first grab at new technology. For example, NASA says "Boeing, help us develop this new Hozenfartzen rocket engine, and you get a 5 year exclusive license once we release it". Have NASA build the space station, and then rent space on it for companies to do their own research. (That might be hard to do, what with all the international agreements involved.) If a company wants to develop a tourist industry, let them rent time at a docking port, and charge for oxygen, water, etc. Allow private industry a way to provide funds to maintain the station, and NASA can move on to their next project.

That's quite clever of you, razark.:salute:

NASA has actually already entered into agreements resembling what you posited, but it hasn't worked out yet, simply because the economic potential of doing anything other than just putting up comm satellites is negligible. Behind satellites, tourism is the next industry with the most potential, if that tells you anything about what kind of economic potential lies in space at the moment. In any case, hybridizing NASA with private industry is a wise move, one whose benefits we will see as soon as we can figure out a way to make space productive.

[TLAM Strike]

That's quite clever of you, razark.:salute:

NASA has actually already entered into agreements resembling what you posited, but it hasn't worked out yet, simply because the economic potential of doing anything other than just putting up comm satellites is negligible. Behind satellites, tourism is the next industry with the most potential, if that tells you anything about what kind of economic potential lies in space at the moment. In any case, hybridizing NASA with private industry is a wise move, one whose benefits we will see as soon as we can figure out a way to make space productive.
I agree with both of you on that. I think that mining of Near Earth Asteroids maybe what that will make space productive. (I've posted on this subject before in other threads so I won't repeat my self here, its late and I'm tired).

[razark]

That's quite clever of you, razark.
Whatever it takes to make sure I still have a job to go to tomorrow, and the next day, and the next...
:D

[Weiss Pinguin]

Stick a big metal rod in ground, stick the rail gun around it (like a ramrod in a musket) then fire the rail gun at an insane power level. :o :cool:
And then watch as it plows right through the moon :O:

[Betonov]

Stick a big metal rod in ground, stick the rail gun around it (like a ramrod in a musket) then fire the rail gun at an insane power level. :o :cool:
wouldn't that be like sticking the musket on the ramrod, not the ramrod in the musket :hmmm:
and that wouldnt be smart, it would shoot earth out of the orbit and into the sun :o

[TLAM Strike]

And then watch as it plows right through the moon :O: :doh: Doh did think of that...

but I think it could fire rounds at the Moon to slow down.

wouldn't that be like sticking the musket on the ramrod, not the ramrod in the musket :hmmm: Correct...

and that wouldnt be smart, it would shoot earth out of the orbit and into the sun :o
You forget the mass driver has much less mass than the Earth. Its pushing against the Earth when it fires- in essence using the Earth as its reaction mass. It would only impart the momentum it gained in relation to its mass when it fired on the Earth.

In other words the force required to send the mass driver to the moon is far less than the force required to send the Earth there.

[krashkart]

:doh: Doh did think of that...

but I think it could fire rounds at the Moon to slow down.

Could do that, or.... we could fill a moon crater with a few million tons of surplus breast implants (big boobs are 'out' in Hollywood right now) and hope our aim is really good. :know:

[Platapus]

Funny thing when we beat the Russians to the Moon, they switched over to "beating" us in LEO with space stations so they could test the endurance of hardware and humans for a long trip to Mars.



In my Master's program, one of my papers was on how the American's lost the space race. It addressed exactly the points you just raised.

[TLAM Strike]

Could do that, or.... we could fill a moon crater with a few million tons of surplus breast implants (big boobs are 'out' in Hollywood right now) and hope our aim is really good. :know:

My plan to fire our really big gun at the moon to slow our really big gun down for landing on the moon has the advantage of us getting to say we shot a really big gun at the *******ing Moon. :03: :rock:
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/7426/tumblrl4j3vsenwm1qb25dg.jpg

In my Master's program, one of my papers was on how the American's lost the space race. It addressed exactly the points you just raised. Neat! Normally when I mention those points people just stare off in to space and think I'm crazy. :salute:

[Gerald]

My plan to fire our really big gun at the moon to slow our really big gun down for landing on the moon has the advantage of us getting to say we shot a really big gun at the *******ing Moon. :03: :rock:
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/7426/tumblrl4j3vsenwm1qb25dg.jpg

Neat! Normally when I mention those points people just stare off in to space and think I'm crazy. :salute: or they will have an atmospheric autograph from you.... :hmmm:

[Betonov]

You forget the mass driver has much less mass than the Earth. Its pushing against the Earth when it fires- in essence using the Earth as its reaction mass. It would only impart the momentum it gained in relation to its mass when it fired on the Earth.

In other words the force required to send the mass driver to the moon is far less than the force required to send the Earth there.
It was a joke :DL

But still, if the railgun exerted enough force, and I do mean ENOUGH force, it would move the earth. third newtons law, the railgun would be sent plowing trough pluto, but earth would move :o

[tater]

http://article.nationalreview.com/437842/bedtime-stories-for-the-islamic-world/rich-lowry

A good bit:
NASA administrator Charles Bolden caused a furor when he revealed that President Obama had directed him “to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with predominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science . . . and math and engineering.”

This shouldn’t be hard to do, so long as Bolden is well versed in accomplishments rising out of the Middle East many centuries ago. It gave us what we know as Arabic numerals (although they originated in India). It gave us algebra and the rudiments of trigonometry. It gave us medical pioneers in the tenth and eleventh centuries. (A significant proportion of these scientists and physicians were Christians and Jews, according to Lewis — a fact Bolden had best keep to himself.)

It’s wonderful to feel good about the work of Ibn Sīnā of Bukhara, who compiled an indispensable medical encyclopedia before his death in 1037, but it implicitly raises the question of what Muslim science has done for us over the last millennium or so. The Muslim world would be better served by a frank discussion of how so much of it came to be sunk in backwardness and ignorance, although NASA’s administrator is not the natural person to lead such a discussion (nor, if he’s as smart as advertised, will he volunteer for the task).

Historian David Landes puts it starkly: “The vast bulk of modern science was of Europe’s making, especially that breakthrough of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries that goes by the name ‘scientific revolution.’ Not only did non-Western science contribute just about nothing (though there was more there than Europeans knew), but at that point it was incapable of participating, so far had it fallen behind or taken the wrong turning.”



And the almost always spot-on, Charles Krauthammer:
Apart from the psychobabble — farcically turning a space-faring enterprise into a self-esteem enhancer — what’s the sentiment behind this charge? Sure, America has put a man on the moon, led the information revolution, and won far more Nobel Prizes than any other nation — but, on the other hand, a thousand years ago al-Khwarizmi gave us algebra.

[Weiss Pinguin]

... but, on the other hand, a thousand years ago al-Khwarizmi gave us algebra.
I fail to see how that is reason to help them. In fact I'd say that was reason enough to nuke them into oblivion ;)

[Task Force]

soo... since they are dealing with the crazys in islam now. Then why are they called NASA, shouldnt they be called NIRA? National Islamic Relations Association...:hmmm:

[krashkart]

soo... since they are dealing with the crazys in islam now. Then why are they called NASA, shouldnt they be called NIRA? National Islamic Relations Association...:hmmm:

Maybe they are reaching out to the moderates before the crazies have a chance to brainwash them. :hmmm:


*dons flame suit*

[razark]

Maybe they are reaching out to the moderates before the crazies have a chance to brainwash them.
While I'm not saying that's a bad thing to do, NASA really isn't the group to be doing it.

NASA can be used to build international relations. That was the idea behind the Mir missions, and the reason we have the *International* Space Station. Using NASA to reach out and engage other nations in cooperation to further exploration is a great thing.

But making that international outreach a goal above exploration and research? No. It diverts way too far outside the reason NASA exists. If you want something like that, create a new group, and give them that mission. But not NASA.

[SteamWake]

Time for damage control now...


White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said Monday that NASA Administrator Charles Bolden must have misspoke


Gibbs huh... rest assured its a crock...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/12/white-house-muslim-outreach-task-nasa/

[tater]

Maybe they are reaching out to the moderates before the crazies have a chance to brainwash them. :hmmm:


*dons flame suit*

Moderates? Sure, there are individuals who are "moderate" WRT science. Just like there are creationists that turn off their brains for the creationism part, but do other sciences that don't stray into those sensitive areas where no science is needed (since god already told us all we need to know!).

If this is an attempt to create muslim atheists, I'm fine with it—but again, it's not NASA's job.