WW2:Time of Wrath

[Skybird]

Does anyone know that game? What is it like? I am looking for a strategy game, operational level, hexfield, but it should not be as complex as War in the Pacific, and not as simplistic as Panzer General and clones.

TOAWiii and COTA are known over here, so you must not mention them to me. :03:

[TheSatyr]

I have it,but I haven't been able to get into it or Storm of the Pacific yet. Bought too many games from Matrix recently...lol

[TheSatyr]

The operational level is divisions,corps,air armies (forget what the smaller air units are). The naval units are carrier groups,battle groups,patrol groups and sub groups. (which is usually a named ship with a few destroyers).

I don't remember the hex scale,but one thing I do remember is that their is no stacking.

Combat and movement is based on "action points" so you can combine combat and movement any way you like.

The only manual is a pdf...but that's how most matrix games are these days.

[Raptor1]

Hmm, not too much to pick when it comes to Operational level strategy these days. I have heard some good things about SSG's Decisive Battles series (The older series of them comprising Battlefront, Battles in Italy, Battles in Normandy, Korsun Pocket and it's expansion Across the Dnieper. The newer series being Kharkov: Disaster on the Donets and it's expansion Across the Dnieper: Second Edition), though I have not played any yet so I can't comment about them.

Try any of HPS' games? These are definitely not too complex when it comes to game mechanics, but very large because they cover major campaigns on 2 hour and battalion/company scales.

EDIT: Ah, forgot only the Panzer Campaigns series has 2 hour turns. Their other series' have differing time scales.

[Skybird]

thanks, I meanwhile got the impression nthat the game probably is a bit too simplistic for me.

Never heared of HPS simulations. I'll check their titles, the website looks promising.

[Skybird]

Ah, Point of Attack, now that I have heared of...

[Skybird]

BTW, anyone here knowing Point of Attack 2, and can share his thoughts?

[TheSatyr]

I'd have to say that my favorite game right now is John Tiller's Campaign Series. Only problem is that it is gonna take me forever to finish my East Front Dynamic Campaign. Can't wait till I can upgrade some of my tank platoons to the Mk IV with the long 75. My Pz IIIs got crunched by some T-34s...lol

[eddie]

I have several of the HPS sims, and enjoy them! If you are concidering purchasing one, get them from here, its a lot cheaper!

http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net/noname.html

[Raptor1]

I wish they'd finally release the bloody Thirty Years' War sequel to their Renaissance game already...

[Skybird]

Has anyone experience with the modern campaigns, the three German scenario packs? Fulda Gap, Northern Plain, Danube Front?

[Raptor1]

I have Danube Front '85

[Skybird]

Is there a european retailer for HPS? with shipping and taxes, these games become very expensive when ordering from NA. did that once with Harpoon 3 many years ago, and got a bad wake-up call from custom duty. Will not risk that again.

Danube - stable? Is it a good title? Sorry, but knowing that you have it, Raptor, helps me nothing. I have no idea what to expect of these HPS titles, how they play, how realistic or unrealistic it is, the sequence of play. Found two links promising reviews, but both links broken.

I know an old cosim, the Third World War series by GDW, also the Assault! series by GDW. How does it compare to these two, for example?

[Raptor1]

Danube - stable? Is it a good title? Sorry, but knowing that you have it, Raptor, helps me nothing. I have no idea what to expect of these HPS titles, how they play, how realistic or unrealistic it is, the sequence of play. Found two links promising reviews, but both links broken.

I know an old cosim, the Third World War series by GDW, also the Assault! series by GDW. How does it compare to these two, for example?

Sorry, thought you had a specific question about it.

It's stable, and IMO a pretty good game.

The gameplay is a pretty simple IGOUGO TBS. Units are mostly battalion scale (There are some companies, mostly Recon units) and are represented by an equipment type which has the typical values such as soft attack, hard attack, etc., morale, quality, fatigue and some special attributes. Units have movement points which they expend during the turn on actions such as moving (Obviously), deploying to and from travel mode, firing on enemy units, assaulting hexes and the like. Units of course can also suffer from conditions such as being out of ammo, out of fuel, disrupted, isolated...

A few elements are abstracted, such as wing fixed aircraft (You choose a target to call bombers or attack aircraft on if they're available, and the flight might either go through or be intercepted by SAMs or fighters), SIGINT which tells you the location of certain enemy HQs and jamming which puts HQs out of command.

It's hard to judge how realistic or unrealistic it is as the actual war or anything realistically similar to it has ever happened. The fighting seems mostly realistic to me; there are a few cases where casualties seem too low (If I call an attack aircraft squadron against a battalion of tanks, they would usually lose no more than 1 or 2 tanks), though I'm not the best judge of that.

Here's a review of Fulda Gap, it's still pretty relevant as the game system is mostly the same:

http://www.combatsim.com/memb123/htm/2002/08/fuldagap/

(Some of this stuff, like chemical weapons and helicopters blocking units have been changed since then)

Note that the larger scenarios and grand campaign are enormeous, may take quite a while to complete one of those.

[Skybird]

Thanks, this sounds very much like what I am interested in in scale. I am seriously considering it now.

the product description says that there is some kind of "uber" scenario were the whole front from Denmark to Italy is beign covered - I assume that is in combination with the other two titles in that series? They also say that the changes implemented by Danube, would be implemented into the earlier two titles as well (for which, I assume, they need to be installed, of course).

Is there a scenario editor?

[Raptor1]

The Grand Campaign scenario does not require the other games. You might want the other games for the smaller campaign or scenarios that they cover (I think Fulda Gap's scenarios have been integrated into NGP, not sure though).

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/3200/df85.jpg

(This is modded, of course)

The new features introduced in DF were patched into NGP and FG, they do that to all their series once new games with relevant new features are out.

There's an OOB and scenario editor for making new scenarios. You can't edit the map, but you can use portions (or all) of it for new scenarios.

[Skybird]

I just ordered it.

BTW, for anybody reading this thread and being inzerested in HPS and living not in North America, but Europe:

http://www.store4war.com/public/index.php

Here you can get the games from france, europe. If you consider shipping costs and custom duty, you probbaly get a slightly cheaper ride with this shop, compared to NWS. Also, NWS listed shipping options on a separate info site, but when trying to place an order, via paypal, paypal procedure was launched without me being given a choice for shipping options, nor game price and shipping costs listed on the paypal bill in advance, before you confirm transaction. read again: they wanted me to file a general cheque blanche without listing shipping, shipping costs. If I would have pressed the confirm button, I would have had no clue how much money they actually sack in from my banking account! This is not how it should be.

Paypal via that French shop now did things like they should be: listing all costs in advance on a bill by paypal. Also, since it is inside the EU zone, I think there is no bad surprise on delivery regarding custom duty. at least I never had to pay customs when ordering from British Amazon, and a shop in Holland.

Anyhow, looking forward to it. Now i will check if the manual can be gotten via download somewhere. I put some hope into this game indeed - can't wait!

[Raptor1]

Anyhow, looking forward to it. Now i will check if the manual can be gotten via download somewhere. I put some hope into this game indeed - can't wait!

You can download the update to the the printable documentation from HPS' site, it has the user manual and program manual you can extract.

[Skybird]

Thanks again. You pointed me to all this, and to what seems to be a good game. Thank you indeed! :up:

[Skybird]

I am into the manual which i printed, and I like very much what I read.

I also saw internet entries here and there that gave the impression the giant scenario is nothing else but the earlier two titles of the series put into Danube. Is that so, I mean, does it make sense, if I like Danube, to separately buy the other two titles as well?

[Raptor1]

Basically, the grand campaign is the Fulda Gap, North German Plain and Danube Front campaigns with the addition of the battles for Berlin and AFNORTH; the whole war in West Germany and Austria. As displayed in the screenshot I posted above.

You can play the grand campaign, the Danube Front campaign, the AFNORTH Campaign, the battle for Berlin and a bunch of smaller hypothetical scenarios based on a Warsaw Pact invasion along the Danube River Valley and Southern Germany (And of course variants of all the above) in DF.

It makes sense to buy the other games (Well, NGP at least, I'm pretty sure the FG scenarios were imported into that one) if you want to play the older games' campaign scenarios (The ones that don't include the areas added with DF) or their smaller scenarios. I haven't FG or NGP, though, so I can't say how good their scenarios are.

[raymond6751]

Does anyone know that game? What is it like? I am looking for a strategy game, operational level, hexfield, but it should not be as complex as War in the Pacific, and not as simplistic as Panzer General and clones.

TOAWiii and COTA are known over here, so you must not mention them to me. :03:

Check the link in the signature for a very involved pbem game.

[Skybird]

I see. So if I ant to play the smaller scenarios in the other titles, I need to buy it, but if I want to combine all three modules for the one big minster campaign, I do not need the other two games, for the big game in Danube is not a recued, small version of all three titles combined, but is all three titles combined for the monster round indeed.

I like the monster round over several days! :yeah:

I will play smaller scenarios in anube to learn the game. But my interest really is to go for the big one. Liker I played the already mentioned GDW cosim back then, whcih were three modules combined as well:

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9885/img0819il.jpg (http://img12.imageshack.us/i/img0819il.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Checking that pbem link now, thanks.

[Skybird]

Finally, after fighting with a French shop for 6 weeks in vein, finally successfully disengaging from them and ordering in the US directly and seeing them delivering in just 8 days, I have gotten my copy of Danube 85 and had a first check. I like what I see, and the huge map which is very detailed, I recognised several details of places and city locations that I know.

If only these strategy game developer would not always consider it to be a virtue that there interfaces must be operated with a microscope. the menu and buttons are okay. But the font size and the counter symbols are a torture to the eyes. Nano-interfaces have spoiled quite a number of strategy games for me, and with Danube I again have the problem of a very microscopic display of written data and symbols of on-map-counters. Sitting with my nosetip 20 cm away from my 19" WS monitor at 1680x1050 gives me burning eyes and teardrops after short time, plus a pain in my backbone from sitting badly. Changing the screenresolution in the nVidia panel does not help - the game becomes more blurry, but fonts and symbols on counters, and hexfield size remain all as small as before in relative screen size - just that now it all is blurred, making it even more difficult to read. An ingame option does not exist, only three alternative map displays for different purposes, that do not help at all.

:damn: :damn: :damn:

Always the same mess with these strategy developers. Always makíng fonts as small and unreadable and other stuff as much miniaturised as possible. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Else a good game. But its days already are counted, due to the pain and stress to the eyes. I don't bear it for long. Money lost.

It's really a plague in the strategy and cosim genre, I think.