View Full Version : Virginians can carry in restaurants now
Platapus
07-02-10, 11:39 AM
What a nice Independence Day “gift”
Effective 1 July 2010
HB 505 Concealed handguns; prohibits person carrying onto premises of restaurants from consuming alcohol.
Concealed handguns; restaurants; penalty. Allows a person with a concealed handgun permit to carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of a restaurant or club and prohibits such person from consuming alcoholic beverages while on the premises. A person who consumes alcohol in violation of the provisions of the bill is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. This bill is identical to SB 334. Link to the law. Paragraph J3 applies
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?101+ful+CHAP0709
About time. This is the way to handle it. Prohibit people from drinking alcohol while carrying, but do not penalize those who wish to carry without drinking.
I knew there was something good about living in Virginia. :yeah:
For those non-Virginians, Virginia had a open carry law that allowed pretty much every citizen to carry a handgun openly in a restaurant. However, those citizens who have been issued a concealed weapon permit could not carry concealed in a restaurant. This is what happens when two separate laws may be in conflict with each other.
Anyway, this seems to be fixed now. People can either open carry or, if they have the permit, conceal carry in a restaurant. They just can't consume alcohol.
Which is a pretty good compromise.
Well done General Assembly! :salute:
TLAM Strike
07-02-10, 12:01 PM
How can you enforce such a law? The weapon is concealed so how does the bartender know the person is carrying a firearm and not to serve them alcohol?
Seems to me that the enforcement of the law is in the hands of the person who could be breaking it.
"Oh I don't need to leave my 9mm at home, I'm going to just have one drink and no one will know."
AVGWarhawk
07-02-10, 12:02 PM
Why would you want to carry a weapon in a restaurant? Shoot the waiter for poor service? Take out the cook if the food sucks?
FIREWALL
07-02-10, 12:06 PM
I didn't know Virginians ate in restaurants. :DL
At least if the food isn't quite dead then it can be fixed by the customer rather than the waiting staff. :yep:
Skybird
07-02-10, 12:19 PM
Over the past couple of years, under impression of threads here, and criminological developements in Germany, I must admit that I have very drastically changed my former opinion on these matters, and gave up my opposition to the idea of citizens being allowed to carry handguns. I now favour the concept, and I regret that Germany is getting more and more hysteric about increasing gun prohibition every time there was a new school incident. I see no need for private citizens to carry concealed weapons or to be allowed to own assault guns and semiautomatic MP and military stuff like that, but in principle I support the American basic idea of private handguns being allowed to citizens.
Yes, this is the same Skybird speaking. :)
AVGWarhawk
07-02-10, 12:49 PM
I thought guns were to protect life and property....not to be carried into Cracker Barrell....:hmmm:
Platapus
07-02-10, 12:56 PM
[QUOTE=AVGWarhawk;1433703]Why would you want to carry a weapon in a restaurant? /QUOTE]
For the same reason a citizen may decide to carry in other locations.
AVGWarhawk
07-02-10, 12:58 PM
[QUOTE=AVGWarhawk;1433703]Why would you want to carry a weapon in a restaurant? /QUOTE]
For the same reason a citizen may decide to carry in other locations.
Ok...lets head on in to Chuckie Cheese with my "9" just in case you know...someone else is packing......:timeout: Does this make sense to you?
Yes, this is the same Skybird speaking. :)
I thought you'd prefer a crossbow? :03:
Caring a gun i restaurant is such a pain in a ass:D
Yes, this is the same Skybird speaking. :)
:rotfl2:
SteamWake
07-02-10, 01:42 PM
Maybe go back to the wild west days when you wore your gun on your hip and checked them at the door :yeah:
Platapus
07-02-10, 01:57 PM
[QUOTE=Platapus;1433742]
Ok...lets head on in to Chuckie Cheese with my "9" just in case you know...someone else is packing......:timeout: Does this make sense to you?
Actually it does. Last time I checked, the International Association of Bad Guys have not prohibited n'er-do-wells and brigands from commuting crimes in restaurants.
How about this for a deal. As soon a criminals agree not to commit crimes in restaurants, I will agree that law-abiding citizens interested in self-defense won't need to carry in restaurants.
How's that for a deal? That sound fair? :yep:
Maybe go back to the wild west days when you wore your gun on your hip and checked them at the door :yeah:
Holstered is probably the best option. It's visible, if the pigging tong is clipped over then it's not going to get nicked, and it's within reach if needed.
Blood_splat
07-02-10, 02:11 PM
I think we need to start arming cats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ey9D9HrLl4&feature=related
Sailor Steve
07-02-10, 02:26 PM
Why would you want to carry a weapon in a restaurant? Shoot the waiter for poor service? Take out the cook if the food sucks?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre
UnderseaLcpl
07-02-10, 02:31 PM
Yes, this is the same Skybird speaking. :)
Never thought I'd see the day. Welcome to the club!:yeah:
Platapus
07-02-10, 02:53 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre)
Criminals are generally in favour of gun-free zones. :shifty:
UnderseaLcpl
07-02-10, 02:55 PM
Criminals are generally in favour of gun-free zones. :shifty:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o264/charlie143james/handbill-gunfreezone2.jpg
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt.
AVGWarhawk
07-02-10, 03:16 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre
What are the odds of this happening again?
Platapus
07-02-10, 04:45 PM
What are the odds of this happening again?
100%
Some time, some place, by someone, some where.
Skybird
07-02-10, 04:45 PM
I thought you'd prefer a crossbow? :03:A Korean composite bow, dismountable. :) A truly venomous little beast, and easy to smuggle. :D
Platapus
07-02-10, 04:46 PM
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt.
Catapults don't kill people, it is those big frickin rocks that do.
A Korean composite bow, dismountable. :)
Classy...and probably a bit less of a handful to carry around. :yep:
Sailor Steve
07-02-10, 08:00 PM
What are the odds of this happening again?
Actually it did happen in Anniston, Alabama, in 1999. Two gunmen rounded up everyone in the place and were marching them to the freezer when a customer with a gun killed the two perps. The only innocent harmed was the hero himself, who received a minor wound.
Also here in Salt Lake City three years ago a gunman started killing people at trolley square. He was stopped, and killed, by an armed citizen. The hero in this case was an off-duty police officer, but it could have been any competent person with a weapon.
gimpy117
07-02-10, 08:06 PM
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc326/dgiharris/DoubleFacePalm.jpg
nice job Virginia...Just what we need... alcohol and guns. Just when I thought clubs were dangerous enough. Now you can LEGALLY carry a gun to shoot me with out back.
All this is just to make the Neo cons happy. I remember them trying to pass a law that allowed Guns to be legally stored in cars on college campuses in Michigan. The republican congressmen thought it was a great idea! The 3 chiefs of police for MSU, U of M, and CMU thought it was a terrible idea. but the congressmen just kept on talking. When cops think its a bad idea...then it probably is. Im sure the "wonderful" new law in Virginia is no exception.
Subnuts
07-02-10, 08:14 PM
Y'know, saying "please" and "thank you" is usually enough to keep the waitress from spitting in your coffee.
Sailor Steve
07-02-10, 08:29 PM
All this is just to make the Neo cons happy.
As soon as you break out terms like that, you're putting yourself in the same category as Rush Limbaugh. The only difference is that you're on the other side.
Sailor Steve
07-02-10, 08:31 PM
Y'know, saying "please" and "thank you" is usually enough to keep the waitress from spitting in your coffee.
That one was already used by AVGWarhawk, and answered by me.
Or didn't you bother to read the whole thread?
gimpy117
07-02-10, 08:33 PM
As soon as you break out terms like that, you're putting yourself in the same category as Rush Limbaugh. The only difference is that you're on the other side.
yes, i may have been generalizing. But the radical right is very behind pro gun laws. so im not that far off base. But i know that not all republicans are crazy gun toting wackos, there are plenty of reasonable individuals out there. I was just referring to a very vocal minority who presses these issues. so offense intended. ;)
Sailor Steve
07-02-10, 08:44 PM
yes, i may have been generalizing. But the radical right is very behind pro gun laws. so im not that far off base. But i know that not all republicans are crazy gun toting wackos, there are plenty of reasonable individuals out there. I was just referring to a very vocal minority who presses these issues. so offense intended. ;)
I know. I was just zingin' ya. In the '70s I was very liberal. In the '80s I was very conservative. I'm so in-the-middle these days that I consider everybody's arguments to have some validity and be worth listening to, as long as they're reasoned and reasonable arguments.
I even still listen to Rush occasionally, because I think he's right on some points. But I also read Al Franken for the same reason.
There are too many "I'm right and you're stupid" types on both sides of every argument. I wish more people would actually discuss these things.
AVGWarhawk
07-02-10, 08:50 PM
Actually it did happen in Anniston, Alabama, in 1999. Two gunmen rounded up everyone in the place and were marching them to the freezer when a customer with a gun killed the two perps. The only innocent harmed was the hero himself, who received a minor wound.
Also here in Salt Lake City three years ago a gunman started killing people at trolley square. He was stopped, and killed, by an armed citizen. The hero in this case was an off-duty police officer, but it could have been any competent person with a weapon.
Well Steve...3 incidents since 1999 does not warrant the right to carry a hand gun into Cracker Barrell IMO. Imagine if you would....road rage but this time the driver is fully loaded.....:shifty: Great... a 3000 lbs killing automobile followed up by a nine to the back of the head. You better believe there will be gun posing arms hanging out of car windows over here in the DC area.
gimpy117
07-02-10, 08:51 PM
I know. I was just zingin' ya. In the '70s I was very liberal. In the '80s I was very conservative. I'm so in-the-middle these days that I consider everybody's arguments to have some validity and be worth listening to, as long as they're reasoned and reasonable arguments.
I even still listen to Rush occasionally, because I think he's right on some points. But I also read Al Franken for the same reason.
There are too many "I'm right and you're stupid" types on both sides of every argument. I wish more people would actually discuss these things.
I know how you feel. I own a rifle, I enjoy shooting it. but i also feel that there should be better control of assualt weapons. However just 2 days ago I considered getting an SKS. Talk about split huh. :rotfl2: but if it would be more difficult to get it under new laws i wouldn't be so concerned. I have a clean record so I have no fear for new gun laws.
CaptainHaplo
07-02-10, 09:03 PM
You know whats WRONG with this discussion....
Everyone is going "Why do you NEED the right to do this?" when what SHOULD be happenening is people saying ok - the constitution as ammended gives you this right - so does it need to be restricted - and if so - why?
Not one person has given a reason why a law abiding person should not be allowed to carry a firearm into a restaurant. Because they serve alcohol? Oh wait - that was exactly what the law addressed - no drinking if your carrying.
Instead of looking to government to immediately abridge a right that you - in your own personal opinion think is "stupid" - why not define an arguement sufficient to limit the rights of a law abiding citizen. Until then, all your doing is yelling into a tornado.
Stop looking to limit the rights of others just because you don't like what they do - because one day - others are going to dislike something you do - and there will be no one there to speak for you.
If you have a legitimate, reasonable and logical line of thought for why this is bad, share it. But just because you don't like it - doesn't make it a bad thing.
Sailor Steve
07-02-10, 09:09 PM
I know how you feel. I own a rifle, I enjoy shooting it. but i also feel that there should be better control of assualt weapons. However just 2 days ago I considered getting an SKS. Talk about split huh. :rotfl2: but if it would be more difficult to get it under new laws i wouldn't be so concerned. I have a clean record so I have no fear for new gun laws.
And the only gun I currently own is a seventy-year-old '03 Springfield, with a missing bolt. But I believe in a person's right to defend him/herself.
@ AVGWarhawk: Here in Utah we have some of the most liberal gun laws in the nation (funny way to use the word "liberal", given the current state of politics) and that never happens. However, when the gun control shoe is on the other foot I usually fall into the "What's good for New York is not necessarily good for Salt Lake City" category.
The truth is I'm up in the air about how much difference there really is in the climate in different cities, just as I'm up in the air about how much control the Federal Government should exert in these cases. I don't like the Feds having any control over the states or communities, but I also don't like states and communities being able to deny rights either.
We have exactly that situation here right now. The University of Utah banned guns on campus, and now there is a fight going on as to whether they can contrevene State laws on the subject, which allow concealed carry for licensed owners. And there is currently a debate going on in our State legislature as to whether we should follow Vermont's example and do away with the permits altogether and just allow it to everyone.
Utah actually has a free open-carry law already, but several cities don't allow it. It's a curious situation for the country, I admit.
Platapus
07-02-10, 09:13 PM
When I was living in Utah, it was the first time I ever saw open carry. It was quite the surprise the first time you see it.
Sailor Steve
07-02-10, 09:21 PM
Yes it is. These days I don't think twice about it, mainly because most criminals don't want people to see their guns.
Ducimus
07-02-10, 09:29 PM
Here in Utah we have some of the most liberal gun laws in the nation
Really? I might be moving there in the next year or so. Maybe i'll be able to get the AR-15 and M-14 I've always wanted. :yeah:
Sailor Steve
07-02-10, 09:31 PM
Really? I might be moving there in the next year or so. Maybe i'll be able to get the AR-15 and M-14 I've always wanted. :yeah:
Actually, that should be no problem as far as I know.
Ducimus
07-02-10, 09:37 PM
You know, i was just up there in Provo last weekend. :O:
breadcatcher101
07-02-10, 10:24 PM
M 14's, if you can find one, run about $15,000.
By chance do you mean a M1-A, the semi-auto version?
About $1,200 for those.
Sailor Steve
07-02-10, 10:28 PM
You know, i was just up there in Provo last weekend. :O:
And you didn't PM me? We could have had lunch! :sunny:
Jimbuna
07-03-10, 05:40 AM
When I was living in Utah, it was the first time I ever saw open carry. It was quite the surprise the first time you see it.
I had the same experience in Texas nearly two years ago....I'm not sure of the laws in that state but I'm not sure I should have seen anything :hmmm:
Torvald Von Mansee
07-03-10, 06:07 AM
Why would you want to carry a weapon in a restaurant? Shoot the waiter for poor service? Take out the cook if the food sucks?
Ahem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ysidro_McDonald's_massacre
I know one woman reached for her gun but realized it was in her car because she didn't want to bring a gun into the Luby's in the first instance.
If we're going to have firearms freely available, you should be able to freely carry them ANYWHERE except a private establishment which searches you some way before entry (because law breakers will carry no matter what the laws).
Torvald Von Mansee
07-03-10, 06:11 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre
Oops, I see you already covered what I just brought up. My bad.
(You know, I heard "My bad" was actually created by Manut Bol, who just died :C)
AVGWarhawk
07-03-10, 07:15 AM
Ahem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ysidro_McDonald's_massacre
I know one woman reached for her gun but realized it was in her car because she didn't want to bring a gun into the Luby's in the first instance.
If we're going to have firearms freely available, you should be able to freely carry them ANYWHERE except a private establishment which searches you some way before entry (because law breakers will carry no matter what the laws).
Ahem...two incidents in a restaurant do not a gun party make. For that matter you are painting a picture that everyone should be packing a weapon just to eat a burger. If that is the case we all should just stay home in fear of getting blasted over a plate of fries.
TheSatyr
07-03-10, 07:58 AM
My personal feeling is and always will be that the second amendment is an archaic law that should have been repealed when the USA decided to have a standing army.
The second amendment specifically refers to "well regulated militias" which were needed pre-standing army. The idea that everybody should be able to have a gun is a bastardization of that amendment IMHO.
And no,I'm not a Liberal. I'm a MOR Republican...you know...the ones the right wing whackos want to remove from the party...heh.
Sailor Steve
07-03-10, 09:47 AM
I believe you're missing the important point that the very reason for the militia clause is that a standing army was what they feared most. The standing army is owned by, and subject to, the Federal Government. This includes the National Guard.
And worries over possible abuses by the Federal Government is the reason for the Bill Of Rights in the first place.
Torvald Von Mansee
07-03-10, 04:34 PM
Ahem...two incidents in a restaurant do not a gun party make. For that matter you are painting a picture that everyone should be packing a weapon just to eat a burger. If that is the case we all should just stay home in fear of getting blasted over a plate of fries.
EVERYBODY SHOULD CARRY A FIREARM!!! Me, you, nuns, preschoolers, puppies, et al. ALL OF US!!! :D:yeah:
I keep picturing a punk coming in to get the cash from the register, and about 4 or 5 packin citizens decide there going to be the hero and save the day. Everyone Duck!
Torvald Von Mansee
07-03-10, 05:15 PM
I keep picturing a punk coming in to get the cash from the register, and about 4 or 5 packin citizens decide there going to be the hero and save the day. Everyone Duck!
I just can't wait for "Shotguns and Liquor" night at the ballpark!!!
OneToughHerring
07-03-10, 07:43 PM
Maybe this would be a good thing. :har:
Why would you want to carry a weapon in a restaurant? Shoot the waiter for poor service? Take out the cook if the food sucks?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre
yes why on earth would you want to.
opps Torvald Von Mansee (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=224840) got it first.
TLAM Strike
07-04-10, 03:02 PM
EVERYBODY SHOULD CARRY A FIREARM!!! Me, you, nuns, preschoolers, puppies, et al. ALL OF US!!! :D:yeah:
"An armed society is a polite society"
-Robert A. Heinlein.
:03:
Task Force
07-04-10, 03:26 PM
This should be intresting...:yep:
Torvald Von Mansee
07-05-10, 06:17 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre
yes why on earth would you want to.
opps Torvald Von Mansee (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=224840) got it first.
And Sailor Steve before me!!
Platapus
07-05-10, 12:23 PM
There are lots of dead people who truly believed "It could not happen to me"; "No one would shoot people here"; and "Odds are that I will never be in that situation". :yep:
raymond6751
07-05-10, 03:28 PM
[QUOTE=Platapus;1433742]
Ok...lets head on in to Chuckie Cheese with my "9" just in case you know...someone else is packing......:timeout: Does this make sense to you?
I suppose nobody minds taking their wife and kiddies out for a meal knowing that a gun fight could erupt in the dining room? I think I'll go for drive-thru.
http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/4/26/633763488392596690-Nevertoomanyguns.jpg
thorn69
07-05-10, 03:39 PM
[QUOTE=AVGWarhawk;1433747]
I suppose nobody minds taking their wife and kiddies out for a meal knowing that a gun fight could erupt in the dining room? I think I'll go for drive-thru.
But, what if the cashier aims a gun at you in the drive-thru?
It would be nice to have a gun at lunch time when you really want breakfast! :rotfl2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM8qT9Xop5k&feature=related
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