The Brits are absolutely stupid.

[CaptainMattJ.]

im on a patrol and selected the mission of sinking 50k tons of shipping on brit coast. so i patrol, find a ship and sink it.. so then i decide to go up north towards the ports blythe and tyne. i patrol there and thers just like 15 destroyers surrounding the harbor. so i decide to get out of there when i see the black line of a merchant. i zoom in and theres an INSANE umber of black lines. turns out this is a TWENTY ship CONVOY WITH NO ESCORTS AT ALL! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

i cant catch them underwater so i go on surface and get in range of one and fire two torps. it gets her health down pretty low, but doesnt appear to be sinking. so i fire 2 more at another ship and sink it. then i look back and that ship STILL isnt sinking. so i fire another torp (which misses) :( my only stern torp. so i leave that one and fire another torp at a ship, and it JUST barely hits the bow. if the ship wad reversed it wouldve miss. so i fire another but THAT one misses. so i leave that one alone and search for better targets. by now the convoy is in disarray and 1 is going north and im going east, so its a very nice shot. i line is up and fire. it hits

i ready up another torp and unfortunetely, it misses the damaged ship, but ends up hitting another ship of the same type. by then im out of torps. so i wait a few minutes for the conoy to get away from me a little and surface and use my deck gun. the first 15 shots miss cause im at long range, but then i get close enough so that i dont miss. i sink a fully healthy ship, then go after the two ones i hit with 1 torpedo each. i sink them both, but am starting to use up ap shells as my he were gone.

then i spend about 5 minutes hitting another healthy ship to death. by then i had but 20 shells left, so VERY VERY VEEEEEEEEERy reluctantly, i leave the convoy and sail back to port for resupply. i check the mission meter and its JUST barely shy of 50k.

so basically, the brits let a 20-ship convoy armed with nothing but aa guns ride ALONE without ANY escort through the seas. thats why the brits are just retarded

[W_clear]

I can tell you ,SH5's AI is very stupid,Even you adjust the property of the AI to Elite,But it still is very stupid. Hope that the patch 3 can to solve.I remember AI stronger after adjustments are in patch 3 _SH4

[slikster]

There's a patch 3 comming?

[Zedi]

Is 39', the beginning of the war. Brits got unprepared and at that time convoys were not escorted yet as they were not aware of the incoming u-boat threat. That's why that period was called Happy Times. Only later in 40 convoys start to be escorted and also merchants have their own protection, like deck guns and such. So this is normal, nothing retarded or unusual.

[W_clear]

Is 39', the beginning of the war. Brits got unprepared and at that time convoys were not escorted yet as they were not aware of the incoming u-boat threat. That's why that period was called Happy Times. Only later in 40 convoys start to be escorted and also merchants have their own protection, like deck guns and such. So this is normal, nothing retarded or unusual.


I edit a mission“SUB VS 3DD”all DD's property ---- Elite and late.Then use my hard AI MOD. Run mission to test .

Test results: DD's depth charges can never be sunk without moving SUB，However, the submarine just 50 meters underwater and stoped。
Until DD left the submarine.This is too funny.
Another. DD will not be sailing close to the submarine Z word。Even you attack DD with torpedoes ，DD still walk a straight line to grave.

So I think SH5 is a sightseeing tour of the game, rather than fighting simulation games.

[Zedi]

I agree that the AI has serious issues, but not in 39' as the OP stated.

In 43' I had my fun with the escort AI who will chase you (playing only with stock game, no moded AI), but soon as u dive under 50m.. they lost you. But, they camp the place pretty much time and drop a lot of DC's around the las contact area.

Not sure that the AI behavior is not hard coded as I tried few mods where the thermal layer effect was disabled and still the AI lost me under 50m. And thats with the gramophone and engines at max :nope:

TDW said that he is working on AI, finally somebody who work on the biggest problem in the game.. I'm really curious about his results...

[Sailor Steve]

Is 39', the beginning of the war. Brits got unprepared and at that time convoys were not escorted yet as they were not aware of the incoming u-boat threat. That's why that period was called Happy Times. Only later in 40 convoys start to be escorted and also merchants have their own protection, like deck guns and such. So this is normal, nothing retarded or unusual.
The A/B convoys out of Freetown suffered from lack of available escorts, and the small coastal convoys were the same, but the first tansAtlantic convoy, HX1, which departed Halifax for Liverpool on September 16, 1939, had four destroyers escorting.

All transAtlantic convoys were escorted. They may have been incompetent at that point, but they would never flat-out ignore a torpedoing or a u-boat sighting.

[Nisgeis]

TDW said that he is working on AI, finally somebody who work on the biggest problem in the game.

There have been about six AI mods so far. Were those modders not somebodies?

[janh]

There have been about six AI mods so far. Were those modders not somebodies?

Weren't all the AI problems of escorts and aircraft patched by modders already? I thought only wolfpacks remained a problem to be dealt with?

[Webster]

There's a patch 3 comming?


we can only hope but i know of no official hints that one is being considered

[SteamWake]

There's a patch 3 comming?

:haha:

and thats how rumors are started ;)

[ottoramsaig]

All I can say is to install "Feard Hunters Mod".......The Brits become very good. Its actually a challenge if you get detected.

[Zedi]

There have been about six AI mods so far. Were those modders not somebodies?

Those mods were a must have before the 1.2 patch, no need to use them since then. Now the AI is smarter and they actually hunt you without any mod installed, only problem is that they lost ur track if u dive under 50m. And no mod fix this as far as I know, not even those which disable the thermal layer effect.

Anyway, TDW is working on something different as far as I know, is not only about making the AI to attack you, but surprise you. Like including random events &stuff. I don't wanna talk about to much as I don't know the all the details. I was reading a single post where he said he found out some interesting stuff about the AI in the game, some scripts and stuff that are not used so far in the game and he wanna bring it to life. He is pretty silent lately, so he must be cooking some "special meal" for us :P

[CaptainMattJ.]

well, but i encountered FOUR of the 20 ship convoys and just went to town. and the funny thing is there WAS a destroyer nearby, but didnt do ANYTHING at all. so the brits are still really retarded, because they shouldve known by then that surface ships arent the only things that can decimate convoys. i mean it happened in WWI.

[IanC]

Just hold on a cotton pickin minute here! What's all this about escorts losing contact if you dive below 50 meters bug? If true, that's a game breaker.
Jesus just when I think I can't read anything else wrong with this game...

[Nisgeis]

Those mods were a must have before the 1.2 patch, no need to use them since then. Now the AI is smarter and they actually hunt you without any mod installed, only problem is that they lost ur track if u dive under 50m. And no mod fix this as far as I know, not even those which disable the thermal layer effect.

Er, well, the AI scripting wasn't changed in patch 1.2, nor was the effect of the thermal layer, or any of the AI sensors, so there was no improvement in the AI (an un-necessarily wide ranging term). There are mods out there that do change the thermal layer and consequently do affect the ability of the 'AI' to find you at depths over 50 metres. Some people have even complained about the depth not protecting them enough with some of those mods. There are mods out there to fix this.

[Nisgeis]

well, but i encountered FOUR of the 20 ship convoys and just went to town. and the funny thing is there WAS a destroyer nearby, but didnt do ANYTHING at all. so the brits are still really retarded, because they shouldve known by then that surface ships arent the only things that can decimate convoys. i mean it happened in WWI.

Yes, the stock AI in game is very poor. However to address the original post about un-escorted convoys, in real life a convoy that had no escort was still prefereable to single merchants travelling alone. The U-Boats would avoid any convoy to concentrate on single targets instead, even if the convoys were un-escorted. It was just much easier pickings to sink single merchants. The convoy system worked, regardless of what escort they had.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Yes, the stock AI in game is very poor. However to address the original post about un-escorted convoys, in real life a convoy that had no escort was still prefereable to single merchants travelling alone. The U-Boats would avoid any convoy to concentrate on single targets instead, even if the convoys were un-escorted. It was just much easier pickings to sink single merchants. The convoy system worked, regardless of what escort they had.

if i had more torpedoes the system wouldve failed and thats a fact. hell i just sunk a 12 ship convoy. so if i had more torps and shells any 20 ship convoy would be history. convoys with no protection might as well be singles, cause think about it. 20 ships packed together is WORSE than having them go the ocean and have the uboat scower around. if you had two uboats any unescorted convoy is just dead.

youd make it harder for uboats cause theyd have to patrol longer, spend more fuel and such. you think a uboat captain would pass up the chance to sink multiple ships in a few hours and try and search around the ocean for a single ship that could easily get past a uboat.

[Sailor Steve]

if i had more torpedoes the system wouldve failed and thats a fact.
No, that's a game. And the game is nothing like real life. You're basing all your comments on your performance in the game, and...well, nothing is ever as easy as the game makes it.

[IanC]

No, that's a game. And the game is nothing like real life. You're basing all your comments on your performance in the game, and...well, nothing is ever as easy as the game makes it.

But Steve, what about that quote from the U-boat kaleun who was playing a subsim and said something like "real life was never this hard"... :haha:

Who was that again, and what sim was he playing...

[CaptainMattJ.]

true it be harder. you may not entirely decimate a convoy. but youll get more ships faster than if you just kept patrolling around for a boat

[Sailor Steve]

But Steve, what about that quote from the U-boat kaleun who was playing a subsim and said something like "real life was never this hard"... :haha:

Who was that again, and what sim was he playing...
He was talking about the difficulty of surviving. The game, like every one before it (including our beloved Aces Of The Deep) gives way too many encounters in the first place. And then it is way to easy to sink them.

If you don't believe me, start researching how many u-boats sank entire convoys. Kretschmer did it best, sinking several ships from each of several convoys ("several" being five or six), but the ones in which he was most successful were wolfpack actions with anywhere up to seven boats all attacking at roughly the same time, so there wasn't as much heat on any one of them.

My point is that gamers like to talk as if they think they would have done better than the men who did it for a living.

[CaptainMattJ.]

and i wasnt talking about real life, i was talking game-wise

[sergei]

and i wasnt talking about real life, i was talking game-wise

Really?
It sounded as if you were.

[aergistal]

and i wasnt talking about real life, i was talking game-wise

Kind of a poor choice for a title indeed. It looks like a cheap journalism trick.

[Nisgeis]

and i wasnt talking about real life, i was talking game-wise

You could use the provided mission editor and remove all the convoy spawn points. It should be fairly quick to do, as they are all near the ports, so no hunting around for them. The mission editor has changed a bit since SH4, but it shouldn't be too much trouble if you are just removing things and not adding anything in.

[Zedi]

Er, well, the AI scripting wasn't changed in patch 1.2, nor was the effect of the thermal layer, or any of the AI sensors, so there was no improvement in the AI (an un-necessarily wide ranging term). There are mods out there that do change the thermal layer and consequently do affect the ability of the 'AI' to find you at depths over 50 metres. Some people have even complained about the depth not protecting them enough with some of those mods. There are mods out there to fix this.

Right after patch when the mods were not 1.2 compatible yet, I started a mod free session and I was surprised to see how mad the escorts became. This may depend on ur strategy as I always attack from the middle of convoy, so I had all escort on my head and was really fun to zig zag through the convoy shotting merchants and try to shake down the heavy DD tail. But soon as I dived under 50.. game over. Before patch and without mods, I could even surface and got no reaction from escorts.

Later on I installed back my favorite mod, Feared Hunters. The difference was that the AI got so aggressive that they gathered all around me and drooped so many DC's that they damaged they own ships. Anyway.. point me out to a mod that completely remove the thermal layer, I wanna try it out. FH did that but soon as I dived under 120m I was safe. And safe means that I'm loling hard with the gramophone and engines at max, still the escorts fail to track me.

[Nisgeis]

It's a setting in a /data/cfg/sim.cfg. Here is the original line:

Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=5.0 ;[>0], 1 means no signal reduction, 5 equals signal reduction to 20% You can adjust this with a text editor (like notepad), if you want to change the effectiveness of the thermal layer - the line shown is from stock, so stock reduction, once you get under the thermal layer, the enemy hydrophones are 20% as good as they were with you above the thermal layer, so they pretty much have to be on directly above you to find you

If their initial detection range was 1 KM, then when you are under the thermal it will be a detection radius of 200m, but you are 120 m away from them already at 120 m depth, so they'd have to drive 80m from your position and they'd have to be within 80m for the amount of time that it takes their sensors to pick you up. That's not going to happen very much.

[IanC]

My point is that gamers like to talk as if they think they would have done better than the men who did it for a living.

Yes of course Steve, I agree 100%. My post was more about that funny quote... I have a feeling it might've been Kretschmer talking about Aces. I'll have to dig around.

[Sailor Steve]

Yes of course Steve, I agree 100%. My post was more about that funny quote... I have a feeling it might've been Kretschmer talking about Aces. I'll have to dig around.
Gotcha. I thought it was against my saying the game is easier, when a real kaleun said it was harder.

Of course it could have been Topp and SH2 or Oesten and SH3. I have all the videos, but it wasn't there it was said, so I don't know either. Good luck finding it.