Why does my torpedoes bounce off target ships???

[Ahmed_Yjj]

E?
At most times they just bounce off and do not explode!!!
I am using SH3 Gray Wolves.

[Paul Riley]

A few things could be happening here -

1 - The target ship's angle of bow to the direction of the torpedo could be too steep causing the torpedo to glance off.Ideally you want the contact angle to be as near to 90 degrees as is practically possible.When you attack a ship you want to be able to see as much of the beam (the side of the ship) as possible,this will then tell you that you have a decent contact angle for the torpedo.

2 - The torpedo could have been a dud (which IS rendered in the game)

3 - The target ship could be pitching heavily in rough sea causing the torpedo to bounce off the keel (underside)

[Ahmed_Yjj]

A few things could be happening here -

1 - The target ship's angle of bow to the direction of the torpedo could be too steep causing the torpedo to glance off.Ideally you want the contact angle to be as near to 90 degrees as is practically possible.When you attack a ship you want to be able to see as much of the beam (the side of the ship) as possible,this will then tell you that you have a decent contact angle for the torpedo.

2 - The torpedo could have been a dud (which IS rendered in the game)

3 - The target ship could be pitching heavily in rough sea causing the torpedo to bounce off the keel (underside)
So it is normal?
:-(

[Paul Riley]

It is normal probably yes,you could be experiencing any of the things I mentioned earlier.If it happens again explain to me what the conditions were,and your angle to the target ship.
Are you new to the game?

[irish1958]

For the first couple of years in the war, the American torpedoes had a very high failure rate (duds). This was due to the Naval Department of ordinance's failure to test them (they were afraid that if they did, the enemy would learn of the results and develop a counter-measure). In spite of not having tested the torpedoes, the Navy brass refused to believe the sub commanders reports of faulty hits and no testing was done for a couple of years. When finally tested, the found out that the sub commanders were correct: the damn things didn't work.
This is modeled in the game in SHIV.
The German torpedoes had a similar problem with the magnetic exploder, and this is modeled in the game. The BDU issued a directive to not use them until they were fixed and the defective torpedoes were used up.

[Torp III]

Also with the above, make sure your not running the torpedoes to deep. I run mine at from 2 to 2.5 meters when using impact pistols.

[ralphnader23]

Try varying your depth. Like Trop III said, if you are going for impact, make sure you are setting the depth to less than 4m. If you are going magnetic try setting the depth to about a meter less than the draft of the ship. The default depth of about 5-6m will result in you bouncing off the angled part of the boat.

imagine this is a ship with the m's being the waterline (assumes a 90 AoB)
x
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
x
x <====== good, this will detonate, because it's flatter
x
x
x
x <====== bad, this might bounce, because of the slope of the keel.
x

<====== good, this will detonate if you have magnetic set when it goes under the ship.
That's been my experience at least.

[Ahmed_Yjj]

It is normal probably yes,you could be experiencing any of the things I mentioned earlier.If it happens again explain to me what the conditions were,and your angle to the target ship.
Are you new to the game?
Yes, i`m new. Well I am 1939 and have successfully lunched torpedoes only few times, including to Dane ship (such a success, but then at watching drowning and looking on Dane flag remember that I forget to check it!).
I am trying to make shallow torpedoes, but problem is with right angle I guess. But to get 90 degree is so hard for newbie.

That scheme explains lot, thanks.

BTW - how You deal with speadboats if You can not use a deck gun because of weather? What is tactics against warships when You can not use torpedoes? Dive and tray to slip away while repairing damage?

Thanks for answers.

[Gerald]

Yes, i`m new. Well I am 1939 and have successfully lunched torpedoes only few times, including to Dane ship (such a success, but then at watching drowning and looking on Dane flag remember that I forget to check it!).
I am trying to make shallow torpedoes, but problem is with right angle I guess. But to get 90 degree is so hard for newbie.

That scheme explains lot, thanks.

BTW - how You deal with speadboats if You can not use a deck gun because of weather? What is tactics against warships when You can not use torpedoes? Dive and tray to slip away while repairing damage?

Thanks for answers. And good hunting....:up:

[Dissaray]

The best thing you can do with regard to war ships is not get found out by them. Failing that going as deep as you can never hurts. Switching over to silent runing is also a good idea. The simple fact is that distroyers, the most common war ship you are likely to encounter, are biult with two things in mind killing you and killing aircraft; they are very good at what they do. Battleships, aircraft cariers and heavy crusers on the other hand are sitting ducks, having no weapons to counter a sub on them and therefor reliant on the smaller ships. Generaly speeking the renown for sinking distroyers and other anti-sub warfair ships isn't worth the expence of a torpido, save them for the bigger ships if at all possible.

As for your trubles in geting a 90deg torpido strike, ya it is hard. One thing you have to do in order to get this done is plan ahead. The best general plan is to get out ahead of your target and on a perpendicular course. Get accurate speed and AOB readings, if you are using manual targeting, and fire your torpido when your gyroangle is close to 000. This will result in your torpido streeking out from your tube and going in a strait line and if you have all the data correct the ship will reach the point directly infront of you at the same time the torpido reaches out to the distance to target and if all is right with the torpido a fantasitic explosion will be yoru reward.

[Paul Riley]

Yes, i`m new. Well I am 1939 and have successfully lunched torpedoes only few times, including to Dane ship (such a success, but then at watching drowning and looking on Dane flag remember that I forget to check it!).
I am trying to make shallow torpedoes, but problem is with right angle I guess. But to get 90 degree is so hard for newbie.

That scheme explains lot, thanks.

BTW - how You deal with speadboats if You can not use a deck gun because of weather? What is tactics against warships when You can not use torpedoes? Dive and tray to slip away while repairing damage?

Thanks for answers.

Personally I would refrain from attacking warships as much as you can,after all,UBoats were designed to sink merchant shipping (ideally when undetected),the surface fleets are designed to engage warships in a duel.
HOWEVER,there may be times when you are evading a warship and he is perfectly lined up for a stern (rear) shot as he chases you (it is possible to lure warships into chasing you and you are at periscope depth moving away from him,then you can force him to run into one of your stern torpedoes),and the rare moments you may get the chance to sink a capitol ship/battleship etc etc,in which case an attack would be too irresistable to refuse!

And forget speedboats,they are not worth the time and effort,giving something like a meagre 50-100 tonnes? for bagging one,simply evade them and stay down until they are out of sight,then surface.If you REALLY wanted to attack one maybe using the AA guns would seem a better choice.

[Pisces]

Speedboats are too fast, too small and move around too much. Don't bother with them. Just go for big merchants, freighters... basically anything that has big cargo holds. Trampsteamers and bigger should be your prey.

[iambecomelife]

Speedboats are too fast, too small and move around too much. Don't bother with them. Just go for big merchants, freighters... basically anything that has big cargo holds. Trampsteamers and bigger should be your prey.

I agree; speedboats can kill your deck crew pretty quickly (if you are playing with GWX or another realistic mod). Plus, they will often call destroyers for backup.

[timmy41]

dont forget that until 1940-41 that a third of the torpedoes were duds

[krashkart]

BTW - how You deal with speadboats if You can not use a deck gun because of weather? What is tactics against warships when You can not use torpedoes? Dive and tray to slip away while repairing damage?

Thanks for answers.

Hi Ahmed_Yjj. Those little torpedo boats aren't worth the ammunition. They move too fast for the deck gun, so if one spots you while you are surfaced it is best practice to dive and slip away. Don't waste any torpedoes on them, either. The only real good thing about them is that they aren't equipped with detection gear. :DL

Welcome to Subsim! :sunny:

[Iranon]

Playing GWX. There is no good way to sink speed boats.

They are too small and agile to hit with torpedos.
They are hard to hit with the deck gun, and the damage model baffles me a little (they can continue to harass you after a dozen 105mm hits).
They will die to flak, but probably not before shooting you up a bit.

Smaller means harder. Killing destroyers is easy (nail on the approach, or even by intuition if they circle), armed trawlers have a nicely rounded bottom, making magnetic torps less reliably lethal, speed boats are definitely better evaded than fought.
I'm just happy there are no armed rubber ducks.

[HW3]

Another thing that will cause torpedoes to bounce off is if you are too close to your target. A torpedo has to run about 400M before it will arm. Torpedoes will usually explode if your angle is within 30 degrees of 90 degrees either side but, the closer to 90 degrees the better. :yep:

[Gerald]

Another thing that will cause torpedoes to bounce off is if you are too close to your target. A torpedo has to run about 400M before it will arm. Torpedoes will usually explode if your angle is within 30 degrees of 90 degrees either side but, the closer to 90 degrees the better. :yep: Must run at least 300m for example ,but are 400m to prefer :salute:

[Paul Riley]

I like to use around 500m as the minimum safe distance,don't ask me why I just do,300m feels too close,400m is ok I guess,500m seems JUST about right :yep:
This of course doesnt apply if ever I get the chance to attack a convoy from within (firing ranges will then be very short),which is not that often,and would only be attempted really early in the war! :o

[donw]

Welcome aboard Ahmed_Yjj
Since you are new to the game, thought I'd jump in here real quick and just clarify what the other folks have already covered, regarding the angle the fish hits your target..

Just wanted to make sure you understood, it is not so much the 90 deg angle that your boat is to the target at the time you fire that is so important.. as it is making sure the torpedo IMPACTS at said 90 deg.. or as close to that as you can get..

Your boat may be as much as 30-40 deg away from a perfect 90 deg when you fire...but if you fire from a long distance, by the time it arrives at the impact point, it should be as close as you can make it to 90 deg.. which will "improve" your chances of not bouncing off..

However... as stated...it will never be 100% assured.. there are many variables built in, which makes game-play as accurate as possible to actual conditions during that time period

[Paul Riley]

Don't forget turbulent sea affects the flight of the torpedo quite a lot too causing it to pitch up or down (and the latter causes the torpedo to pass right under the keel of the target,VERY annoying!)
Another tip is to never use magnetics in rough sea! mag tips can be used fairly safely in calmer seas,and remember using mag tips increase the chances of premature detonations.I almost exclusively use impact tips,unless the target is over say 10.000 tonnes and a mag tip or two would 'break the back' of the target if all goes well :cool:

[irish1958]

Having faulty torpedoes is realistic. Imagine the frustration of the sub commandeers who put themselves and their crew in danger, set up a shot, fire it and become a target of the destroyers when detected. Now the shot misses. :damn:
By the way, do you have dud torpedoes enabled in the options?

[Paul Riley]

Having faulty torpedoes is realistic. Imagine the frustration of the sub commandeers who put themselves and their crew in danger, set up a shot, fire it and become a target of the destroyers when detected. Now the shot misses. :damn:
By the way, do you have dud torpedoes enabled in the options?

I have duds activated mate,only option I still leave on is the 'god's eye mode' , not quite ready for plotting contacts manually,maybe one day ;)
95% realism.

[MarinS]

I agree with Torp III and ralphnader23! You can set torpedo depth run even on 4 meters below the water line and make successful hit!

[maillemaker]

If your torpedo does not detonate on impact, here are the reasons:

1) Dud torpedo (assuming you have this turned on)
2) Too steep an impact on the hull of the ship. This can happen in two axis - to steep an angle relative to the surface of the water, or too steep an angle by striking too deep on the hull of the ship.
3) Too close for torpedo to arm (about 300m).

Magnetic torpedoes will not detonate if they pass too deep under the ship, or if they are duds. Chances of magnetic duds increases greatly at ranges over 1000m.

Steve

[dfscott]

Here's a good thread that will help you get set up for those 90 degree angle shots:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88961

I found this invaluable when I was getting started and still use a lot of it today.

[donw]

Great reference dfscott.. probably one of the best written for that task

[MarinS]

The German torpedoes had a similar problem with the magnetic exploder, and this is modeled in the game. The BDU issued a directive to not use them until they were fixed and the defective torpedoes were used up.



... So, when I can use the magnetic pistol for final solution?? I mean, from what year???

[donw]

Somebody jump in here and correct me if I'm wrong.. but I believe setting magnetic always automatically includes impact ..

Setting impact, will disable magnetic

[irish1958]

Somebody jump in here and correct me if I'm wrong.. but I believe setting magnetic always automatically includes impact ..

Setting impact, will disable magnetic
That is correct.

MarinS: "... So, when I can use the magnetic pistol for final solution?? I mean, from what year???"
I think the BDU lifted the band in 1942. Jimbuna probably knows for sure and he will be along soon.

[donw]

Jimbuna probably knows for sure and he will be along soon.

OMG! :o He actually DOES log off???
:)

[pickinthebanjo]

That is correct.

MarinS: "... So, when I can use the magnetic pistol for final solution?? I mean, from what year???"
I think the BDU lifted the band in 1942. Jimbuna probably knows for sure and he will be along soon.

as I recall it is just after Norway falls to the Germans

[iambecomelife]

I actually wish there were more duds. I never experience duds when a torpedo impacts the target at about a 60-90' angle and is launched from beyond the minimum range. Yet another reason why I keep getting high tonnages even on 80-95% realism.

Come to think of it, I will dig around with S3ditor right now to see if I can alter this!:DL

[Paul Riley]

I agree with Torp III and ralphnader23! You can set torpedo depth run even on 4 meters below the water line and make successful hit!

4 metres is VERY deep,you would be lucky for the torpedo to detect the ship's magnetic field at that depth,I would say set it no deeper than 2m.
Most people agree that 1 - 1.5m below the keel is a good depth.
Also bear in mind that early war torpedoes had problems with depth keeping mechanisms,causing torpedoes to suddenly drop to the bottom before making contact,and this has happened once or twice with me,doesnt happen a lot but it CAN happen.The Germans finally solved this problem later on,I forget exactly when,sometime after the invasion of Norway I think.

:hmmm:

[donw]

Paul..
He said 4 meters below the water line.. not the keel :doh:

[Paul Riley]

Paul..
He said 4 meters below the water line.. not the keel :doh:

Sorry,didnt realise :-?:doh:

[Cabaron]

I notice this thread is dead, but i had a question on this. Just starting GWX, i fired 4 torpedos set for impact,
depth: 2 meter
range: 600
Speed: Slow
Target Hunt Class Destroyer:
All 4 passed directly under the Destroyer, and he proceeded to depth charge me to the bottom. Did i do something wrong?

[Gargamel]

Well, vs a dd at close range I Usually use electrics so they dont detect them. If you're going to use steam eels, set them for fast. Also I'm not sure on the draft of that dd, but it seems they were too shallow. Set them for magnetic, and either an impact or a near miss will hit them.

He could have also rode a wave over them. If he noticed them, accelerated and turned into them, the AOB could have been too shallow for an impact to occur and they could have glanced off and continued on. A magnetic setting would have allowed a ricochet to detonate.

And if all 4 passed underneath, your spread was waaaaaaay too tight. 1 eel would have sufficed. Maybe 2 to protect against duds. Save your eels for tonnage that really counts.

[Cabaron]

Yes i fired on his bow he was headed at me was the only angle i could get, he wasn't zig zagging though all 4 showed on the attack map as impact, with no detonation. Also i always set them for impact, warships call for the big M?

I figured one of them would hit damn thing stalked me out of gibraltar for ages.

[Frenchy849]

Yes i fired on his bow he was headed at me was the only angle i could get, he wasn't zig zagging though all 4 showed on the attack map as impact, with no detonation. Also i always set them for impact, warships call for the big M?

I figured one of them would hit damn thing stalked me out of gibraltar for ages.
Normally I set them to magnetic and fire at a depth of 2 meters.
I know how crazy that sounds but it works.

[Tinman764]

If he was heading straight at you and you were using impact triggers then the likelyhood of any of those fish detonating is slim to none. Did they continue after passing under the ship, or did they hit the hull and sink?

If you have no choice but to take a 0 degree AOB shot then it's best to set a few feet below the draft and use a magnetic trigger.