“You can’t turn a tiger into a kitten by stroking it.”

[Skybird]

So damn true that it hurts. A recommended read!

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2010/06/08/goo-goo-genocidaires-the-blood-is-dripping-from-their-hands/#more-3149


It is just not true, historically speaking, that ‘peace movements’ lead to peace or, for that matter, support policies that will bring peace. More often than not, the opposite is true.

[NeonSamurai]

Ah good ol blind uncritical idealism, always ever popular at the Universities. I really have to shake my head in dismay at them so often. Yet one of the big goals in University is to teach critical thought, oh the irony.

I like peace as much as the next person, and prefer not to have to kill. But I am not so foolish as to think that placating an enemy will make them my friend. Sometimes there is no choice. I do though think the Iraq war was a big mistake. Maybe Bush got Iran and Iraq mixed up :woot:

[Oberon]

It must be nice to be so idealistic, to see the world in such soft tones, to be able to completely miss all the crap that there is out there.
Alas, I am a realist. :damn:

[Betonov]

I second that, or should I say fourth that (OK, bad joke)
I wonder how people become such idealist. Dont they ever go out into the world, see how it works. Ponder about actions and reactions. :hmmm:

I guess Teddy Roosevelt knew, avoid war if possible, but kick some behinds if need arises. The developed world is getting soft while the developing world gets tough. The best thing would be is to develop the developing world so they get even softer, but that wont happen in our lifetimes. So the best thing is to deter everyone from attacking by being more than ready to fight. Maybe assasinate some dictators to keep most of them in line. Kirgizia could use some policing right now.

In my country there is actually a petition to disband the entire army. I would signid it IF the slovenian army was the last in the world. Plus, with a 10% unemployment rate (100 000 people) would be a bad idea to put another 5000 on that statistic

[Oberon]

These days it's more Speak very softly and carry a bunch of flowers*

*Flowers must be of plastic variety and wielded in a manner that is non offensive to the recipient.

[NeonSamurai]

These days it's more Speak very softly and carry a bunch of flowers*

*Flowers must be of plastic variety and wielded in a manner that is non offensive to the recipient.

:o plastic flowers?!? they are to be made out of biodegradable cloth and bits of fluff. Think of the environment man!

[Oberon]

:o plastic flowers?!? they are to be made out of biodegradable cloth and bits of fluff. Think of the environment man!


Damn! Damn! Well, that's me fined then :damn: :haha:

[August]

:o plastic flowers?!? they are to be made out of biodegradable cloth and bits of fluff. Think of the environment man!


Oh sure, wrapped around a steel bar maybe... :DL

[Oberon]

Oh sure, wrapped around a steel bar maybe... :DL

The Steel bar must conform to Health and Safety Regulations or someone might get hurt! :nope:
Furthermore it must not be held in an aggressive manner lest someone get offended! :stare:

[Schroeder]

In my country there is actually a petition to disband the entire army. I would signid it IF the slovenian army was the last in the world. Plus, with a 10% unemployment rate (100 000 people) would be a bad idea to put another 5000 on that statistic
Same here. The service time for draftees has just been reduced to six month which means that the "soldiers" can't do much more than clean their gun and the basics of operating more complicated equipment.
But most people here take it for absolutely granted that the world is peaceful and that we don't need armed forces since there is a world full of friends around us.:dead:

There is a saying here which goes: The price for peace is eternal watchfulness.

[Castout]

Sometimes there is no choice.

Exactly sometimes the error needs to be worked out and it lies with the other person(party) and no amount of EMPATHY, REASONING or COMPASSION could sort the problem and would probably even mess things up further for the worse.

The problem with pacifist or peace activist is that they try to relate to the enemy with empathy but the problem with empathy is sometimes the other party is not really comparable to you.

The psychology of people in power or absolute power or corrupt in power are totally different than the psychology of an average people.
Like it or not countries are governed not by its people but by a select individuals who hold power and able to wield it to influence the people either by approval or coercion and often these people are not common people, psychologically speaking.

But it is easy for us and the writer of the article to talk with the benefit of HINDSIGHT.

[Betonov]

Schroeder, germany still has draftees ?? I thought it was 100% profesional soldiers. Interesting

And yes, 6 months will get them to do 50 pushups and learn to shine their boots, not much combat training. Six months is also in Slovenia for a volunteer reservist

[Tchocky]

As far as I know it's a choice between the armed forces and the civil service. A freind of mine spent his service in the Luftwaffe glider corps, doing what he loves :woot:

[Skybird]

the draft is currently being fought over, although nobody wants to admit it. Some conservatives want to crucify themselves ove rit, talking idealistic BS aout how much it brings together different mentalities of different regions of Germany - those who served in the BW will tell you that it is what I just said: idealistic BS that is completely disconnected from reality. Due to the need to cut spendings, the defence minister wants to cut - or already has - the drfat time from 9 to 6 months. But this is just a preparatory step to skip drafting alltogether.

I see it happening in the forseeable future - some years.

we have this conceopt of thinking of soldiers not as warriors, but "citizens in uniform". that'S all nice and well, but seriously hampers the performing and realistic understanding of military duties and war-related acticities, like you can see in Germany'S schizophrenic perspective of how Afghnbaistan is not a war. It is an effort to form a military that never again will become the ruler of Germany, but obediently fits into the framework of a civil, pacifistic society.

what got lost over this attempt is that much of the world is neither a cicil nor a pacifistic place. I prefer to have a military spirit sharp like a laser sword - but having a poltical control over it that shows maximum restaint before letting lose this military. what he have instead since the fall of the wall is a military tame and defining itself as a socially engaged disaster relief organisation that is armed for self protection, and a political class having send this military on an inflational number of "peaceful" missions some of which turned out to be extremely bad surprises, or being more symbolic and uselss than helpful in achieving militarily defined goals.

Warriors are only needed in war, and to protect freedom by showing readiness to defend it. Better to have them and not needing them, than to need them but not having them. Warriors are no social aid workers. The Germans, and also some Europeans, need to learn that.

[Schroeder]

As far as I know it's a choice between the armed forces and the civil service. A freind of mine spent his service in the Luftwaffe glider corps, doing what he loves :woot:
That is correct. One can choose between civil service and the military. Though a lot of young men don't have to do either. There aren't nearly enough jobs for them in both the civil or the military sector (which comes if the military is cut down in size constantly every few years). So all in all it's a pretty unjust system right now.

[GoldenRivet]

You can't turn a tiger into a kitten by stroking it.

No...

But you can turn a modest mushroom into a mighty pillar of stone!




bada-ching

:shifty:

[Betonov]

Ich danke ihnen für den Antworten

just thanked my german friends for the answers on the german drafting system in my usual broken german

[UnderseaLcpl]

Speaking of unrealistic idealism, I have a question about this article. At what point did it become America's responsibility as a nation-state to care about the fact that people the world over suffer and die in genocides or wars or famines or plagues or anything else for that matter? If it is our responsibility then why are so often bent over the barrel for interventionist policies that go awry or are motivated by the "wrong" reasons? We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Why is it our moral obligation to make everyone happy? If it is our obligation, shouldn't we be able to go about it our own way since we somehow got ourselves into that position in the first place and would probably know a thing or two about it?

I see no reason why we are obligated to respond to anything except direct threats with a valid casus belli. Therefore, I fail to see how we can be held accountable for the actions of other nations, even in part.
I personally think that our foreign policy should consist of letting other nations hire us to provide military aid, peacekeeping, and economic aid. We're already whoring ourselves out to other nations' agendas, we might as well make a few bucks while we're at it. We can't pave the road to hell with good intentions if we have an obligation to a contract service. That way, guys like the author (and myself to some extent) can pick and choose our causes, guaranteeing help to all with as little favoritism as possible.

Failing that, I think we should let a coalition of concerned nations that doesn't include us tackle the problem for once and we'll see how they do. I'm tired of America taking a beating from interests abroad and at home for it's actions, inactions, and everything else as well. I think the policy should, one way or the other, be "put up or shut up".

[Schroeder]

Ich danke ihnen für den Antworten

Gern geschehen.:DL

[Blood_splat]

We just need to shower the world with love.:O:

[Dowly]

We just need to shower the world with love.:O:

Tits or GTFO. :hmmm:

[XabbaRus]

And here I was thinking this was a post about Tiger Woods and thinking well a damn large number of women have tried stroking Tiger to make him a kitten. :rotfl2:

[August]

And here I was thinking this was a post about Tiger Woods and thinking well a damn large number of women have tried stroking Tiger to make him a kitten. :rotfl2:

So you're saying you're thinking of Tiger Woods getting stroked? :hmmm:

[krashkart]

So you're saying you're thinking of Tiger Woods getting stroked? :hmmm:

Nooooo not while I'm eating... http://imgcash6.imageshack.us/img110/1235/zombiexv8.gif

[XabbaRus]

Nooo, I was thinking about the women who have stroked Tiger...