Howdy folks...

[nodlew]

Hey Y'all

I've been around Subsim for a while--started with SH3, went to 4, now I'm playing 5. Anyway, good to be back.

I'm kinda glad it took me a few months after release to get the game. By the time I got the game the 1.2 patch had been released and a lot of the short-comings of the retail release had already been fixed by mods. Thank you Modders. Especially DarkWraith and all those who contributed to his UI which improves the experience of the game 500% for me. I play at 96% realism (I turn on the external camera for screenshots and just to look at my sub cruising along). I try to avoid using it for any tactical advantage like watching what escorts are doing while my sub is at 150 m. Anyway, the mods have fixed just about everything. Still a few issues.

I wish it were possible to use the stadimeter without locking on a target so I could get range readings from farther away. I wish it were possible to lock on from farther away so I could identify targets from longer ranges.

I'm playing in '39 right now--haven't finished the first campaign Total Germany, but so far things seem a bit too easy. Every mission I seem to rack up 40 or 50k tns, even in a type viiA with only 11 torpedoes. Escorts are way too easy. One mission I took on a task force of 5 destroyers in a close range battle maneuvering at periscope depth, I sank all of them. The only reason I got damaged was because I sailed into the middle of them in a fog and was shot up before I could submerge. The career I'm playing now I just sank three destroyers and then attacked the harbor at Tyne sinking three Cimmaron tankers. The destroyers are apparently blind in a medium fog. You can attack them on the surface and close to under 1000 yards and sink them with utter impunity. Which is what I did. I'm sure things get tougher later in the war, but I need some kind of mod for visibility in a fog--for my crew and for the enemy. It makes no sense for a ship to be visible to me, but invisible to my crew. A heavy pea soup fog when I can't actually see anything, yeah. But not a few whisps of fog on a moonlit night when I'm clearly distinguishing ships at thousands of yards.

There is a Lot of traffic. In SH3, I could sometimes go a week, maybe two, and not sight a ship. And then it was often neutral and not to be molested. It could get nerve wracking. Getting low on fuel, and haven't sighted an enemy ship and I've been out here almost a month and this storm has lasted for days and days...

In SH5, I rarely go a day without finding a target. And I find lots of convoys. I'm sure there are or will be mods to tone things down for people who want a more hard-core subsim experience. I wonder if others find the game a tad too easy, even on the most realistic settings.

On the other hand, since I installed Wamphyri's Plane Mod, I have learned to be extremely careful in areas patrolled by aircraft. The British seem to have about 1 Hurricane per cubic kilometer of airspace. My watch crew don't identify them until they are diving to attack, and they always attack now. Unrealistic the other way, I think. In '39 the Brits didn't have many aircraft and they weren't good at hunting subs--lacked anti-sub weapons and radar, etc. Oh well. It's good to be scared of something out there until I get a Harder Escort mod.

Cheers all.

[McBeck]

Welcome back :)

As for the destroyers, I think Steve has pointed out again and again, that its actully historic correct. Later in the game, they pick up the pace.

But if you want more agressive destroyers, there are mods for that too ;)

[nodlew]

Hey McBeck,

It might be histtorically accurate that the British escorts should be relatively incompetent when locating subs and employing depth charges, but the fog visibility thing is a bug. All I have to do is wait for a medium fog--which on the English coast is a wait of about 5 minutes--and I suddenly become invulnerable and can attack any British port I desire without fear of reprisal. To prove it, after rearming at Bremen I have plans now to strike Scapa Flow and sink me a Battleship using my super secret medium fog cloak of invisible invulnerability.

[JU_88]

I dont know why the Hurricane was ever in Silent Hunter
It was never used to hunt U-boats ever, Is there even a single recorded instance of a Hurricane attacking a U-boat?

Hurricanes were front line fighters, serving a a largley out numbered Fighter command.
They had a measly 6 seconds of firing time on 8x .303 (rifle calibre) Machine guns - barely suffcient firepower to take down a Heinkel 111 - So they would have been pretty much wasted on a 1,000+ ton U-boat with an Iron pressure hull sitting below the waterline.

The only Aircraft Attacking Uboats in 39 should be;
Ansons, Swordfish and on very VERY rare occasions - Sunderlands as they were in service and on active maritime patrol from the start of the war, but there numbers were very few at that time.

[Sailor Steve]

As for the destroyers, I think Steve has pointed out again and again, that its actully historic correct. Later in the game, they pick up the pace.
Wasn't me this time. Early on they shouldn't be too smart, but they should at least try. I've read some comments that, like the planes, they are very close but just seem to ignore you. If that's true, it needs fixing. :sunny:

[krashkart]

Wecome back, nodlew. :salute:

[nodlew]

Ju-88,

That's what I thought. The Hurricane as coastal defense plane seems to be an attempt by the devs to increase variety and excitement in the game at the expense of historical accuracy. I suppose I'm going to uninstall the Wamphyri plane mod for the nonce. I like historical accuracy and realism as much as possible. It's a "simulation" after all, and the fun is in reliving historical circumstances.

[Nisgeis]

The U-Boat is lower, so it was possible for the U-Boats to see the ship silhouettes against the sky, whereas the ships could not see the U-Boat against just the sea.

The problem though is not that they are blind, it's that they don't react to explosions or torpedoes, due to a logic problem. Try this instead for more 'interesting' harbour raiding and convoy attacks in fog:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165886

I haven't tried it specifically in medium fog on the surface at speed, but give it a whirl.

[nodlew]

Early on they shouldn't be too smart, but they should at least try.

Exactly. I think they would try, if they could see me, but the fog visibility is so badly implemented that they can't. Although last night while blithely blowing up destroyers and whistling "It's a Long Way to Tipperary" my watch crew would call out the destroyer's range and bearing, so I my AI could see them. So I don't know. They didn't shoot, that's for sure. One machine gun would have been sufficient to cause me to radically rethink my strategy.

[nodlew]

Thanks Nisgeis, I'll try that mod. Damn almost to Bremen to refit. Gonna have to rethink Scapa Flow. But if Prien could do it, dammit, I can do it.

"The problem though is not that they are blind, it's that they don't react to explosions or torpedoes"

No, I think there is a fog problem. Had I used the same methods in clear weather I would have been riddled from 3 km away. Experience talking.

[nodlew]

Then again Nisgeis, you make a very point. It should be quite feasible to attack an enemy ship on the surface with the Uzo at night in a modest fog. But once attacked the enemy ship should then become very aggressive and it should spot you if you are close enough to see it. One attack last night: I had just finished off a tanker sitting in port with the deck gun. The watch crew called out an escort sighting. I turned and found the escort sitting still about 3500 m away. I repositioned and launched a torpedo from about 2500 meters. The escort alerted--searchlights on--as the torpedo closed, but then proceeded to sit there and take the hit. A speed of .5 kts would have been sufficient to save them. So. They don't react intelligently. They don't react at all.

[Nisgeis]

There is a problem with any situation where they cannot see you or hear directly. At night, or in heavy rain, or submerged outside a convoy or in fog, when they can't see you or hear you - e.g. you are outside sensor range, then they will ignore you. I've heard it's possible to shell ships without the escorts even coming to investigate.

The mod changes it so they do come and investigate and thus, they close to where they think you are and gives them a chance to get to within foggy visual range of you. They won't always go to the right place, but they will at least search for you.

[nodlew]

Got the mod. The name scares me. Operation Scapa Flow cancelled until further notice.

[Nausicaa]

Planes: It's wrong from almost A to Z at the present stage, even with mods. I know a great deal about the air war. First of all, you would never, ever, see a fighter plane in bad weather or at night in 39-41, and even later it would be extremely rare. They were just not equipped for flying in those conditions at the time, heck, the BF109E didn't even have a artificial horizon. I would invite anyone here to try even flying through a friendly puffy cloud in a blue summer sky without artificial horizon, and to see in what strange position you come out at the other end. Moreover, the RAF had no planes or pilots to spare in 39-41. The omni presence of "scout planes" over the channel end of 39 (that is were I am currently in my campaign, with Wamphyri plane mod installed) is plain ridiculous, you shouldn't see a lot in daytimes, and you should certainly never see it in bad weather or night. Even dusk and dawn with good weather are out of the question, that is what Galland called "Büchsenlicht", translated "tin can light" ...total interdiction to fly. Way too dangerous. Even during Dunkirk, in 1940, RAF squadrons were interdicted to descent under 15,000ft over the channel, because of fear of flak, and despite of the british army being hammered on the beaches. Yes, that is how badly the RAF wanted to preserve it's fighter planes! Of course, at that moment some ignored the order but that is another story. In any case it's one of the reasons the british armies on the beaches complained later on so bitterly about the absence of any air support.
The planes in SH5 need real fixing, but so they did in any SH of the series....they were always plain wrong.


Destroyers: Low shillouette of the U boat ok, but I have been several times in a situation at night were destroyers in IRL would have seen me without any doubt from 2500 meters or so. They would have seen the tower, and for sure the wakes I make steaming away full flank ahead. I mean, those warships had watches on deck that ment business. They are a bunch of blind moles right now.

[Sailor Steve]

Gonna have to rethink Scapa Flow. But if Prien could do it, dammit, I can do it.
Prien didn't do it on his own. Doenitz himself examined aerial recon photos and radio intercepts, and hand-picked Prien for the job. It was coordinated from the top, and never recreated. It was the only major base raid of the war.

[scratch81]

even with uboat killer the port destroyers still just sit round and do not, at least for me. howver the task forces are extremely aggressive with it. i got pounded for 6 hrs after sinking my carrier for blockade of germany. we squeeked away with half a boat from that mess. half a desiel engine, half an electric motor, with half my batteries un useable. that was the most fun ever.

Was looking at my boat and noticed it has bold decoy launchers... is that accurate for 1939 operations on a 7b?

[nodlew]

Whoa there Nelly! I just put the killer mod in there and no sooner had I torpedoed the a...er, aft section 58 of a Hog Island than Hydrophones report "Warship, moving very fast, closing!" So, rather than lazily tail the damaged ship and watch the pretty fires I quickly surfaced, deck gunned the thing to pieces and took off, I thought in the opposite direction. But must have got my bearings mixed up cause I ran right into the thing. I dove with it plowing straight at me shooting up a storm. I came up to periscope depth and when the destroyer came in pursuit, I nailed him with my aft torpedo. Hmm. Maybe rnow we can relax. Nope, Hydrophones report a warship closing fast, bearing 81 deg. I'm running in the opposite direction at flank speed with a hull down to 58% trying to get to deeper water. Now that was fun.

Update: I love the U-Boat killer mod. After returning to home port to get my sub repaired, I'm back trying to complete the 50k tons to complete the Coastal Waters mission. Had a close call with a DD last night just as I got to the patrol area, but it was storming and foggy--he didn't hear or see me. The next day I'm recharging my batteries, sitting still, and a huge convoy runs right over me. Complete with those 16000 ton Troop ships. 5 of them. I submerged, approached two of them and attacked while observing with my periscope under water. Fastest 33k tons I ever sank. Then I dove to the bottom, only 80 m and went silent and stopped to let the destroyers move on. That was an hour ago. There are still a couple destroyers up there hunting for me. They ping me briefly every so often, but no depth charges. I'm sitting as close to the bottom as I can get. If they ever get a lock on me, I think I'm dead. I can't go deep enough to avoid depth charges. Might be able to break contact...don't know. Great freakin' mod.

Got depth charged, batteries damaged, electric engines damaged, crew wounded, flak gun damaged, hull at 65%, water everywhere...so I surfaced and torpedoed the bastard. Easier to kill them than hide from them, apparently. Running for home again, but at least my mission was completed, and, so far, I'm still in the game.


http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=319&pictureid=2245

[scratch81]

I got depth charged so hard by one escort i had to surface and fight him with my deck gun, i barely sunk him before we was gonna be fish food.

P.S. if they're pinging instead of listening on theiir hydrophones, they can and likely will spot you, even hugging the bottom like a log. best to try and dodge em. active sonar means they won't hear you, so flank speed ahead and get as far away as possible.

[nodlew]

Thanks for the tip, Scratch. I can't believe he found me. He would ping me two or three times, go away, come back ping a few times, go away...then it was Ping! Ping! Ping! And I knew he was on me, but from past SH games, I expected his depth charges to be off target, so I thought I'd wait 'till they started going off then dash a short distance at flank speed while his hydrophones were inoperable from all of the noise. Bad move. He was dead on target.

What happened to bad early war sonar? Anyway, as a consolation, on my way back to base, just a minute ago I ran through another convoy, unescorted. Five more 7000 ton Merchants scrapped, for a patrol of over 70000 tons. Coulda sunk one more with the deck gun, but at this point I just want to make it back to port alive and collect some medals. If another escort comes along, I can't dive very deep with my messed up hull, I'll have to try to hide, or fight, and I'm out of torpedoes.

update.
ran into another convoy, or the remains of the first one. Sank two more Troop Transports with the deck gun for a mission total of 10 ships for 105000 tons. this is getting ridiculous. I want an Iron Cross whittled by Hitler himself and my own Volkswagon.

[scratch81]

Thanks for the tip, Scratch. I can't believe he found me. He would ping me two or three times, go away, come back ping a few times, go away...then it was Ping! Ping! Ping! And I knew he was on me, but from past SH games, I expected his depth charges to be off target, so I thought I'd wait 'till they started going off then dash a short distance at flank speed while his hydrophones were inoperable from all of the noise. Bad move. He was dead on target.

What happened to bad early war sonar? Anyway, as a consolation, on my way back to base, just a minute ago I ran through another convoy, unescorted. Five more 7000 ton Merchants scrapped, for a patrol of over 70000 tons. Coulda sunk one more with the deck gun, but at this point I just want to make it back to port alive and collect some medals. If another escort comes along, I can't dive very deep with my messed up hull, I'll have to try to hide, or fight, and I'm out of torpedoes.

update.
ran into another convoy, or the remains of the first one. Sank two more Troop Transports with the deck gun for a mission total of 10 ships for 105000 tons. this is getting ridiculous. I want an Iron Cross whittled by Hitler himself and my own Volkswagon.

I was just gonna ask for second mini fridge just for beer.

*edit* And i answered my own question about bold, it shouldn't be on my boat in 39.

[nodlew]

Of course the real test is not to sink a bunch of ships, but to survive an entire tour of duty. And that is something I must admit, I have never done in any Silent Hunter game, III, IV, or, as yet, V. Which makes this series of games the only video games I have ever liked and played regularly that I have not completed on the hardest settings. Hmmm. Silent Hunter is the hardest computer game I have ever played.

Of course, now that I think about it, it is also the only game where I play Dead is Dead, meaning if my sub gets destroyed, I start a new career. If I played that way in Call of Duty on Veteran, maybe I would still be trying to complete Call of Duty 2.