lost ww II battlefield-found

[L.T]

Hope they will have NG with them so we can se it before relic hunters empty the place..:nope:

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/07/lost-wwii-battlefield-found-war-dead-included/

**
Disclaimer

I do not belive all relic hunters are bad persons, but in many cases they show little respect for the dead and have far more interest in getting souvenirs. Any casualty of war should be treatet with respect, anyone dead should be treatet with respect. I cant accept that any grave are disturbed unless its something that is vital to explain national / cultural history. Any ship sunk or bodys found that are part of any historic event should be left alone or realeased to the famely, Not broken apart so someone can get a medal in a showcase to impress there friends, or to be sold as a sensation item

**

[ajrimmer42]

wow, that's amazing, shame there's no more pics. What a find.

[Reece]

That is a very good find, I think TarJak will be interested in this article!:o

[Jimbuna]

When you think about it....the site lay undisturbed for over 60 years because the locals feared the spirits of the dead were still there :o

[Sailor Steve]

Pretty amazing what can turn up after all this time.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Wow :o Imagine stumbling on something like that on a hike...

[krashkart]

Dammit, they specified in the article where the site is located. Hope there's some cordoning-off happening there right now. :hmmm:

[FIREWALL]

[QUOTE=krashkart;1414602]Dammit, they specified in the article where the site is located. Hope there's some cordoning-off happening there right now. :hmmm:[

You shoulda read the whole article. Last paragraph.


/QUOTE]Freeman said they are working with respective governments to repatriate the fallen solders and preserve the site in its “current pristine condition." Until then, no groups will be permitted to trek the site

[krashkart]

Oh, I missed that. :oops:

[L.T]

i know this might be considered stupid, but i have emailed National geografic about this. Hopefully they could make an awsome show about this...

L.T

[krashkart]

That would be great if they did! Good thinking. :sunny:

[AVGWarhawk]

Gosh...what a treasure chest and simply amazing find! After all these years covered 60 miles deep in the jungle. The question is....do the Japanese have the right of way in collecting the remains and material? I would say yes.

[August]

When you think about it....the site lay undisturbed for over 60 years because the locals feared the spirits of the dead were still there :o

With all that ordinance laying around it sounds like a case where superstition saved lives.

[Factor]

Gosh...what a treasure chest and simply amazing find! After all these years covered 60 miles deep in the jungle. The question is....do the Japanese have the right of way in collecting the remains and material? I would say yes.

I would say no. Imperial Japan caused the murder and suffering of millions of people over the pacific. Imperial Japan was there in part of their failed conquest of half the world.

So why should Japan have the right of having these what were, barbarians sent home. These soilders did not care for human life. Imperial Japan soldiers beheaded POWs, and enslaved POWs and the conquered populations to help garrison their war machine.

I have no sympathy for the aggressor, and I am glad they rotted where they were fell for 70 years.

[Schroeder]

But we aren't generalizing now, are we?;)

[DarkFish]

So why should Japan have the right of having these what were, barbarians sent home. These soilders did not care for human life. Imperial Japan soldiers beheaded POWs, and enslaved POWs and the conquered populations to help garrison their war machine.

I have no sympathy for the aggressor, and I am glad they rotted where they were fell for 70 years.In that case you could also say "let all US soldiers who fell in Vietnam rot until eternity".
But I guess that's somehow different?:doh:

Some Japanese soldiers did behead POWs. Some of them did really horrendous things. But you can't punish them all for that.

[Factor]

I shouldn't have posted my thoughts on that I guess. But I, as well as about everyone in my family, is very sensitive to the Pacific War. My grandfather was KIA in the Pacific, and my mother never got to know him. In fact, I am told, my grandfather never got to lay eyes on his daughter. (My mother).

Anyway, about the troops rotting in Vietnam, I think the majority of the US troops there, had NO choice. Maybe the Japanese soldier did not either, but the atrocities committed by them on the whole, can not be ignored. The US commeted atrocities in Vietnam as well, (Mai Lai anyone) but not on the same or even close to the same scale.

Anyway, sorry for the above rant in my previous post.

[AVGWarhawk]

In that case you could also say "let all US soldiers who fell in Vietnam rot until eternity".
But I guess that's somehow different?:doh:

Some Japanese soldiers did behead POWs. Some of them did really horrendous things. But you can't punish them all for that.

Some helped the POW's as well.

[AVGWarhawk]

I shouldn't have posted my thoughts on that I guess. But I, as well as about everyone in my family, is very sensitive to the Pacific War. My grandfather was KIA in the Pacific, and my mother never got to know him. In fact, I am told, my grandfather never got to lay eyes on his daughter. (My mother).

Anyway, about the troops rotting in Vietnam, I think the majority of the US troops there, had NO choice. Maybe the Japanese soldier did not either, but the atrocities committed by them on the whole, can not be ignored. The US commeted atrocities in Vietnam as well, (Mai Lai anyone) but not on the same or even close to the same scale.

Anyway, sorry for the above rant in my previous post.

Had no choice in VN? There was plenty of atrocities in the VN war perpetrated by the US soldiers however this has no bearing on what should be done with the remains of the Japanese or the American remains. When does the spoils to the victor end? Is this find a spoil of war or is it something that requires attention for the Japanese families that did send their young kids off to war much like the Americans did?

[Factor]

^I know the Vietnam conflict has no bearing on what should be done with the remains, I was just commenting on what DarkFish had to say. The parents of these soldiers are more than likely deceased as well. Wonder if there is someone alive today whom one or some of these soldiers fathered?



Anyway, I'm out of this discussion, I am too biased. Biased to Imperial Japan. Not the peaceful nation of Japan today.

[AVGWarhawk]

^I know the Vietnam conflict has no bearing on what should be done with the remains, I was just commenting on what DarkFish had to say. The parents of these soldiers are more than likely deceased as well. Wonder if there is someone alive today whom one or some of these soldiers fathered?



Anyway, I'm out of this discussion, I am too biased. Biased to Imperial Japan. Not the peaceful nation of Japan today.

You can not always assume a parent is dead or a brother/sister/daughter/son is alive and wondering what happened to their family member. For instance, my mothers brother (my uncle) returned home to the states in a box after he was shot down in his B-17 over Kiel Germany. It took us years to find out what happened. The State Deptment gave us classified papers (which are now unclassifed). June 13th 1943 over Kiel is was brought to light after we received the report. Thankfully there was accounts from folks on the ground and one member of the crew that did survive the explosion of the B-17. All of this made my mothers mind rest. We were very fortunate to get my uncles remains back. Others around the world seek closure on their own whether they were Allied or Axis. Most if not all were just kids. My uncle was at the ripe old age of 21 when he died. I do not have any bias against Germans. Hell, I still have family in German that still grow roses for a living. Look up the hybrid Schultheis Rose. That rose was created by my Grandfather. Father to my Uncle who perished in WW2. That is just me though. Everyone is entitle to their thoughts and feelings.

[Jimbuna]

That is just me though. Everyone is entitle to their thoughts and feelings.

Agreed, everyone is entitledto their thoughts and feelings.

TBH though....the closest I come to demonising the axis is usually when I read or watch archived footage of the depicable way some of the Japanese forces behaved toward their prisoners.

[Ducimus]

Japanese war crimes aside (and there were ALOT of them), anyone else wonder about the stability of that rusting ordinance? The grenades in specific had me wondering.

[Jimbuna]

I would imagine bomb disposal units will deal with that in situ.

[L.T]

I would imagine bomb disposal units will deal with that in situ.

Its actualy not that bad. Because of the moist the detanators and impact caps 95% of them wound be dangerous, but there is the last 5%

And about the let them rot....someone should realy read up on there history about the japanese armed forces, atleast ground forces.....

Nothing is easy, and the reson many japanese fought so violent was they were told that they would be tortured and worse....If you want to blame anyone for what comittet you need to blame the officers....many japanese soldiers was dragged away into armed service....only the elite (navy / airforce) was "fanatic" many of the soldiers lived a life not to different from the POW`s read the storys about the few japanese pow`s there were taken, read about there condition, there equiptment etc.....the normal japanese soldier was not regarded any higher than the normal pessant back home.....they were not "samurais" they were the tool for the officers.

All sides had there "bad" guys, but calling them murderes in a general term is just so wrong....

L.T

[AVGWarhawk]

Japanese war crimes aside (and there were ALOT of them), anyone else wonder about the stability of that rusting ordinance? The grenades in specific had me wondering.

That ordinance is probably alive and well. Heck, some of the Civil War cannonballs found were still alive.

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/article_86607e91-89df-5e6f-9229-02d450ab0195.html

I would treat them as if going off is still a viable concern.

[L.T]

That ordinance is probably alive and well. Heck, some of the Civil War cannonballs found were still alive.

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/article_86607e91-89df-5e6f-9229-02d450ab0195.html

I would treat them as if going off is still a viable concern.

Alot of this depends how they where preserved, in mud, in dry conditions what is the soil etc....and the PH value of the ground....

Rainforrests are the worst place for any metal. And the way the impact cap are made and the detonator it self will have a hard time survive in the kind of invirement. Im NOT saying that all are "duds" but a great deal of them will be.

We have to remember this are not something that are down underground 10 feet, but something that have been out in the open for 60 years (ok time will have put it under some growth) but its not like the bombs they find in berlin.....

With what i know about explosives and ordonance i would be carefull but not afraid.....

L.T

[L.T]

small update. Got an evemail back from national geografic giving me a email adress to a person i should send the information to directly, bypassing the normal (2 page) idea thingy....

:)



L.T

[August]

Got an evemail back...

Sounds like someone likes playing internet spaceships! :DL

[L.T]

Sounds like someone likes playing internet spaceships! :DL


G`dammit.:damn:..yes YAAARING since 2005 :har:

L.T

[August]

G`dammit.:damn:..yes YAAARING since 2005 :har:

L.T

2005? Hey me too! Presently I'm in Morsus Mihi. How about you?

[L.T]

2005? Hey me too! Presently I'm in Morsus Mihi. How about you?

resting in X13 until i find out what to do...kinda lost interest in the game....so on kinda a break.....

L.T