Grammar school must be out ....

[PappyCain]

How people play is none of my business but it is dismaying to this old fart how cheating has become the norm - even in a sim.

This sim has to be one of the best world war efforts ever produced. The GMX version is truly better than some of the military sims I have used where training is executed with state of the art million dollar infrastructure.

I am amazed at the accuracy, the level of graphics and the historic research on the technology.

Yet again and again I keep reading how folks paint their boats day glo colors, listen to metallic or rapster music, look to tweak files so boats go 50 knots, carry armament that is ridiculous to the era, claiming a dozen warships and 2 dozen merchants on a single patrol and rack up millions of tons.

I do not understand why someone thinks it is cool to cheat a sim, why? What is the point? The experience, the reward is in playing to the era conditions or go play pokemon if one needs flames and loud noises for stimulation.

Ok. I am old. haha. Old school. Sure I don't twitter, dweeb, thumb text and whatever ... but what a waste to try to have to cheat a sim to boast an ego and then post it as if it was a great acomplishment!!

Anyway, before I am kicked out of this forum for airing ... I sure would love to know who plays this sim properly. Could you please privately post me a short message. Those folks are the ones whose posts I will look to read. Thanks and salute to all. Whatever floats your boat.

:salute:

[TabbyHunter]

I have one mod, XXI in 39. Mainly cause i cant get a career past june of 43. And, i boost surface speed to a max of 30 knots, though my XXI has somehow gotten to 44ish on a realy calm sea.

Main reason is that even at 1024 TC, 15-18knots is slow. And yes, for the longest time i didnt edit the game at all.

[PappyCain]

How you play is your thing and I am sorry if I sound like I am judging anyone in particular - what I am trying to do is find the folks who are true afficinados of history and maybe lobby for a special section or thread here for those who play advanced to era technology and standards with hard core immersion. I recognize there are private sites, but something here would be great for like minded. Salute all!

:salute:

[STEED]

People play the game they like, if we all played it the same way, had the same three square meals a day, voted for the same party...so on, the world would be very, very boring. ;) :haha:

[comet61]

I usually chalk it up to those that have "what if" or "can I" syndromes. No harm in it I guess. There are some cheats out there not to mention tools that make things way too easy to the point that realism is out the door. I re-skin all of my boats myself for each and different boats I use on particular careers and each one is unique to that boat. I did in fact make one skin that was bright pink with white polka-dots...just to see what it looked like in game. It was funny. It was one of my goofy "what if" moments.

I am with you on one aspect and that is I like realism as much as possible. In the real life U-Boat world, it was tough. But they did their job as best as they could with what they had to use. SHIII is one of the best Subsims out there that enables us to use whatever level of play we wish. Granted, there are those that don't like the "complications" of realism and then there are those that are completely opposite. I use GWX and Magui mods not to mention several minor mods as well to enhance the realism. I even have edited *.dat and *.cfg files to further the realism to my liking.:know:

I begrudged no one if they want to make changes out of the oridinary. If they're having fun...so be it.:DL

[PappyCain]

Again, whatever floats your boat!

I am just trying to seek out (for me) those 'like minded' who prefer to play to the sim's maximum potential and to historic parameters - that is all.

Hard to find semi-serious posts related to historic facts as it relates to how best to deploy true tactics, best use technology and measure results against a historic benchmark, not arcade play... and actually appreciate the time machine into the true past, not one's creatively altered imagination.

S'
PC

So, who are we old fuddys? IM me if you care to. I am heading out the door in my wheel chair ...

.

[frau kaleun]

I sure would love to know who plays this sim properly.

I play SH3 to enjoy the experience of playing SH3. As long as I'm enjoying myself, I *am* playing it properly. :O:

"100% realism" is an impossibility anyway. No matter how far I jacked up the realism options included with the stock game, no matter how many mods I added to increase it even more, I'd still be sitting in a comfy chair in my jammies staring into a computer monitor while pretending to command a u-boat. So AFAIK where anybody draws the "realism line" is a matter of personal preference.

[PappyCain]

Again, play as you wish.

My point to be clear is for me to find those like minded folks who play to historic values. I do not wish to lecture or be lectured nor wish this to be a post war. You are all nice folks!!


I just want to find those who like historic values - it is not about realism settings. It is a sim and sims are smoke and mirrors anyway. Some of us have actually lived the real deal in the military, at sea or undersea, so we know it is a 'game'.

Again anyone who likes and appreciates history and applying the sim to history, I would love to hear from ya!

[firefighter26]

I play SH3 to enjoy the experience of playing SH3. As long as I'm enjoying myself, I *am* playing it properly. :O:

"100% realism" is an impossibility anyway. No matter how far I jacked up the realism options included with the stock game, no matter how many mods I added to increase it even more, I'd still be sitting in a comfy chair in my jammies staring into a computer monitor while pretending to command a u-boat. So AFAIK where anybody draws the "realism line" is a matter of personal preference.

I'll echo this as my thoughts are pretty close to it. I am installing GWX3.0 this evening and starting my first career within in. Pretty excited actually, as I have heard nothing but good things.

I like simulations for their truth to history, or at least what we think to be history, but that is another thread!

I find myself doing things in the game that, while I know don't have any real effect on the game, a 'real' u-boat officer would probably do. Case in point, surfacing the boat. I'll go to periscope depth first, ease the scope up till it is just out of the water and have a 360 look for close contacts. After, I'll raise it the rest of the way, doing another 360, looking for distant contacts. Depending on weather or time of day, I'll do a 3rd 360 to scan the clouds for air contacts.

I know that the chance of getting ambushed on the surface because I didn't do a visual check is pretty low. The sonar operator would tell me if there were any contacts, but I play under the pre-tense that it is an imperfect machine manned my an imperfect person, both capable of mistakes; thus as a responsible officer, I will take the time to do a visual check each and every time I surface. Hell, today's modern nuclear boats do the same thing!

I am still learning manual targeting, so I let the Weapon's Office make my targeting solutions. However, I have no problems changing and tweaking them to try to put the torpedo into a different part of the ship, or to have it run shallow or deeper, etc, etc. I figure my own imperfections and lack of experience will offset the WO AI's perfect solution to give me something closer to a real life calculation.

But, there is only so far the simulation can go, only so much the AI is capable of doing. Shelling ships on the surface, for example. The target usually just keeps the same course and speed while I pump a few rounds into it. Might be different in GWX, but so far it is predictable. If I was a merchant captain and a u-boat was on the surfacing targeting me, I would zig zag all over the place, and most definitely plot a collision course to either drive him deep or sink him outright.

[Dimitrius07]

People play the game they like, if we all played it the same way, had the same three square meals a day, voted for the same party...so on, the world would be very, very boring. ;) :haha:

Or we can always establish some sort of cult and declare war on those who don`t play our way.
You boat configuration files different from mine= boom head shot :dead:
You don`t play with 100% realism=boom head shot
You think that Sh5 is a pile of @@@@=boom head shot
You don`t believe that Ubi$oft is our lord and savior :o = BOOM double head shot "resurrected" boom head shot :dead:

Classic :up:

[PappyCain]

Ok. My error for looking for those who might like history! and playing to history. Much could have been worked on a NEW thread that promoted historic issues and play - but hey, my poor judgement for wishing to find 'like-minded'. BTW I had a part in the U.S.–Israeli team finding and identifying at 9,800 fsw your INS Dakar, the former modified British T-class submarine lost in the Med in '68.


... thanks to all those posting positive IMs to me, I appreciate knowing who you are.


S'

[Madox58]

It's a fair question.
I wonder about this need to Hop-up stuff at times.
But then again, I did help Mush abit with his Mod, Ubber Boot.
It was a fun Mod!
Not over the Top and based on many historic designs that never made it
to actual production.

To bad he stopped working on it.
I still have the last test release of it.
And did start looking at makeing it GWX 3 ready with improvements.

[maillemaker]

I basically use the software the way the software allows it self to be used, so as to achieve the goal of the game.

If the game lets me engage destroyers at night with the deck gun from 6000m and I can take them out before they take me out, it's not my fault, it's the game's fault.

Steve

[pickinthebanjo]

The way I play is as real as I can make it. I use dozens of mods but they are all devoted to realism (LRT, Water, Interiors, ect) I even go as far as leaving tubes empty so I can mimic Preheating/Maintaining T2's. I play on 100% and the only thing I do that is not real is I have Fogerty, Fats Domino and JJ Cale in my Gramaphone:)

[Thomen]

Well, to each his/her own. :up:

I do "cheat"... when it comes to renown. The way the game assigns it is, imho, bullocks. As far as I know, and I may be wrong on that, GWX does not assigns renown for time at sea, patrols completed, assigned area patrolled, etc . Only tonnage counts.
Which sucks if you play by certain house rules, such as no attacks in heavy sea states, or you transfer to another flotilla that uses a different type of u-boat, and you can't afford the type that is used in the flotilla because.. well.. you did not sink enough ships. :damn:

Don't get me wrong, I love GWX... but the renown is unfortunately the currency of the game. I think we are getting a bit short changed. ;)

[Madox58]

I don't think GWX short changes you.
Part of the Renown system never worked to start with.
So GWX dropped it.

What should have been done by the Devs?
A renown system based on the situation not the ship!

Sink any Unit?
You get it's assigned renown.
No matter where or how.

Add in a way to get more or less renown because of the situation?
That would ROCK!

[Sailor Steve]

Pappy, I agree about painting the boat funny colors and using all kinds of 'super-boat' mods, but when it comes down to it where do you draw the line? I love the latest graphics mods, especially the ones that revamp the harbors. This is because I love to sail out of the harbor looking at all the sights. Sometimes I get so lost in it I can smell the salt air.

But I don't use manual targetting. I have it set to 'Manual', but I also use 'Weapons Officer Assistance'. Unlike some, I don't try to justify it by saying "The captain had help", because in this case the captain has perfect help who is never wrong and never fails. That said, I still manage to miss a lot. Go figure. To offset the advantage of that I always put the scope up several times, just as I would have to if I really were doing manual targetting. I also finally broken myself of 'force-locking' the periscope or UZO to identify targets at ridiculous distances. If the notepad doesn't note the general type, then it's too far away to identify and that's that. Read the thread on "Private Rules":
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=168479&highlight=private+rules

Many of us discussed this very thing there. I think overall you'll find you're in good company.

Also there's this thread started by Dowly back when SH3 was only one year old:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=91653&highlight=private+rules

There are many things that increase realism for different people. I probably use some that you haven't thought of, and vice versa. By my standards I play very hardcore, but but to '100 per-centers' I'm probably cheating right and left.

I encourage people to play silly easy versions with super subs, if that turns them on. I don't encourage them to brag about their tonnage when they play that way.

Or, as I once noted, in Sid Meier's Pirates I turned the whole 'Spanish Main' into the 'English Main', capturing every city on the map. I was the conquering hero, Alexander and Caeser and Captain Blood all rolled into one.

On level Three.

When I moved up to Level Four I couldn't make it through the first week without my crew mutinying and marooning me on a desert island. I never even tried Level Five. :dead: :rotfl2:

[frau kaleun]

Ok. My error for looking for those who might like history! and playing to history. Much could have been worked on a NEW thread that promoted historic issues and play - but hey, my poor judgement for wishing to find 'like-minded'. BTW I had a part in the U.S.–Israeli team finding and identifying at 9,800 fsw your INS Dakar, the former modified British T-class submarine lost in the Med in '68. Best wishes to all. Ova and Out.


...and thanks to all those posting positive IMs to me.


S'

I've got no quibble with anyone who wants to have a discussion focused on playing with what they consider to be more historically accurate settings and habits.

But, not sticking to those settings and habits doesn't equate to not liking history, or not having respect for the real history of submarine warfare, or not wanting to learn more about it. My guess is that most people who devote a considerable amount of time to a WWII subsim are already very much interested in that history or become so just through playing the sim. There certainly seems to be more evidence of that in these forums than there is to support any implication otherwise.

Starting off by saying you want to converse with people who play "properly" makes it sound like anyone who doesn't adhere to the standards you're advocating is doing it wrong, period. Even the title of this thread seems to imply an attitude that's less than complimentary, or even a bit condescending, to those who don't adhere to that standard... which is unfortunate if the intention was to attract people who do play that way without it also coming across as a dig at people who don't.

My two cents, anyway. :DL

[Sailor Steve]

Are you sure you're not my sister? We seem to thing an awful lot alike.:06:

[frau kaleun]

Are you sure you're not my sister? We seem to thing an awful lot alike.:06:

Don't play the "we could be related" card with me, mister. I'm still mad at you for making me aware of that whole "no periscopes at over 4 knots" thing. :O:

[Madox58]

Umm........ Steve?
I think you ment 'Think' not 'Thing'
And your Sister missed that.
:haha:
(Posted as I dash out the back door!)
:rotfl2:

[PappyCain]

I am old school so sorry if I have offended. To play properly means to me to play with respect to history, to historical technology as it was. Not to deviate to creative manipulation or cheats - that is my point and I will stick to it.

With that said, hey play anyway you wish. Stick a nuclear sub into the game. You paid for it, do what you wish! No offense meant and apologies to those who take umbrage.

I was hoping to find and identify those folks who prefer to play historically and it was those folks I wish to communicate with to help educate myself and others who may have an interest.

I do not apologize for having my standards and you should not have to defend your standards. Do you own thing and enjoy!

[frau kaleun]

Umm........ Steve?
I think you ment 'Think' not 'Thing'
And your Sister missed that.
:haha:
(Posted as I dash out the back door!)
:rotfl2:

I didn't miss it, but as it appeared to be a mere typo rather than something far less forgivable, I chose not to be rude enough to call attention to it. UNLIKE SOME PEOPLE. :O:

[frau kaleun]

I do not apologize for having my standards and you should not have to defend your standards. Do you own thing and enjoy!

Fair enough. :salute:

I would be happier if you could make me un-know the fact that my periscope would probably break off if extended when I'm making top submerged speed, and is rendered useless at anything much beyond slow ahead, because that's one of those little 'realism' things that the game doesn't care about but I do now that I know about it. THANKS FOR NOTHING, SAILOR STEVE. :O:

[Madox58]

Pappy,

I'll admit to you and all here, I rarely play!
But I do mods that realize History!
The K-Ship I started and many beyound that.
I watch threads for requests for better, more realistic mods.
I try to help when and where I can to make it happen.
I don't assist the un-real mods as that's not interesting to me.
I can do Nukes and flying subs if I so choose.
But I don't.
The Game means more to me then that!
Not even the Game really.
But people like you mean more to me then you know!
You want real?
Tell me what you want.
If it can be done, it will be done.

[Thomen]

Pappy,

I'll admit to you and all here, I rarely play!
But I do mods that realize History!
The K-Ship I started and many beyound that.
I watch threads for requests for better, more realistic mods.
I try to help when and where I can to make it happen.
I don't assist the un-real mods as that's not interesting to me.
I can do Nukes and flying subs if I so choose.
But I don't.
The Game means more to me then that!
Not even the Game really.
But people like you mean more to me then you know!
You want real?
Tell me what you want.
If it can be done, it will be done.

:hmmm:

All I could think off, what I would like to see (of course) can't be done unfortunately. Or at least not easily.

[Madox58]

I didn't miss it, but as it appeared to be a mere typo rather than something far less forgivable, I chose not to be rude enough to call attention to it. UNLIKE SOME PEOPLE. :O:


Well I met that mis-speller once.
I think he was loffing about in Houston?
:hmmm:
So I think I do have a rude moment owed me.
(Who was it that chided us for being late to the Texas tour?)

[Sailor Steve]

Don't play the "we could be related" card with me, mister. I'm still mad at you for making me aware of that whole "no periscopes at over 4 knots" thing. :O:
That's okay. My real sister is mad at me too. Nothing to do with periscopes though - something about our dad finding out what she was really like in college...I have no idea who could have told him that...:rotfl2:

Umm........ Steve?
I think you ment 'Think' not 'Thing'
Usually I review and edit my posts, so I don't get caught. Sometimes I'm in a hurry, though.:dead:

I would be happier if you could make me un-know the fact that my periscope would probably break off if extended when I'm making top submerged speed, and is rendered useless at anything much beyond slow ahead, because that's one of those little 'realism' things that the game doesn't care about but I do now that I know about it. THANKS FOR NOTHING, SAILOR STEVE. :O:
OMG, you really are my sister!:har:

Don't forget about never reloading while under attack, and reloading externals at a dead standstill in a dead calm, and all the other stuff.

Anyway, as someone I respect once said, "My work here is done.":D

[frau kaleun]

Well I met that mis-speller once.

If he brought the bass, all is forgiven. :O:

[Madox58]

:hmmm:

All I could think off, what I would like to see (of course) can't be done unfortunately. Or at least not easily.


I dwell on the not easy stuff.
Not to get a big name.
But to at least try for the sake of all here.
If you don't ask?
It will never happen.
If you do ask?
It raises thoughts that seem to happen sometime.

[Thomen]

I dwell on the not easy stuff.
Not to get a big name.
But to at least try for the sake of all here.
If you don't ask?
It will never happen.
If you do ask?
It raises thoughts that seem to happen sometime.

Good point. :up:
I vaguely seem to remember that it was brought up before.

A working Enigma in SH 3 or even SH4, plus the ability send and receive message either per email or IM.. even if it is just for kicks and giggles. :D

Or even just messages limited to the game itself using an enigma, with codebooks and all the bells and whistles. Kinda like an Enigma minigame.. for the long stretches of boredom on a patrol..

[frau kaleun]

That's okay. My real sister is mad at me too. Nothing to do with periscopes though - something about our dad finding out what she was really like in college...I have no idea who could have told him that...:rotfl2:

I remember once when my sister and I (both well into adulthood at this point) were at some family get-together and our mother made a point of saying how proud she was that none of her children ever drank or smoked and all "saved themselves" for marriage and God knows what else she thought we'd all either done or not done.

I can't remember what prompted her to make this pronouncement but I do know that my sister and I made eye contact about halfway through and it was all we could do to make our excuses and get out of there before we both busted out laughing. :haha:

[PappyCain]

Thanks Privateer!

I guess I can say more about where I was going with this ... a few colleagues and I have been approached by a production company whom we worked for in the past using sat diving and ROVs. I am working some up notes on a project involving a U-Boat. Deep water and we will use an ADS system to film. I was hoping to bring this sim into a scene or two so I was looking to work some of the enthusiats here! More later hopefully.

S'

[Madox58]

Interesting!
I have been doing advanced animations for SH3.
Just as a guide as to how and what can be done.
If I can assist?
Please let me know.
I also have a few friends that Saturation Dive.
So I'm aware of things there.

[Madox58]

Good point. :up:
I vaguely seem to remember that it was brought up before.

A working Enigma in SH 3 or even SH4, plus the ability send and receive message either per email or IM.. even if it is just for kicks and giggles. :D

Or even just messages limited to the game itself using an enigma, with codebooks and all the bells and whistles. Kinda like an Enigma minigame.. for the long stretches of boredom on a patrol..


I did post that useing a dll injection could work for many things.
I also did test works useing this idea.
No one paid any attention it seems.
Until skwasjer did this for voice commands for SH5.
Everyone is afraid of this for some unknown reason.

[Sailor Steve]

I remember once when my sister and I (both well into adulthood at this point) were at some family get-together and our mother made a point of saying how proud she was that none of her children ever drank or smoked and all "saved themselves" for marriage and God knows what else she thought we'd all either done or not done.

I can't remember what prompted her to make this pronouncement but I do know that my sister and I made eye contact about halfway through and it was all we could do to make our excuses and get out of there before we both busted out laughing. :haha:
When my younger daughter (the one with the kids) was fifteen she was on her high-school girls' basketball team. She told me what she really liked playing was volleyball. Thinking that the WNBA was big at that time, I told her the only way she could make a living at volleyball was to play on a beach in a bikini and let the boys drool on her. She said, in all earnestness, "I could do that!"

Being a good dad, rather than "No you couldn't!", I said "Honey, you can do anything you want. But there are some things you should never, ever tell your father."

@ privateer: So many doors are opening up for SH3, I don't know where to begin. I'm miserable that SH5 has made it less likely that Kiel will get the treatment that Wilhelmshaven did. I would love to see a combi-mod with WAC's bridges and LSH3's Kiel construction works.

But those aren't things that need a programmer's talents, just someone willing to fiddle with the files until they fit right.

What I would really love to see is all the cool things in SH3 right now slotted into SH4. With its transparent water and crew management, and ease of loading and playing (and saving), I think it could still be the much better game in the long run.

Assuming that SH5 ends up not working, of course. What I'd like to see the most is that road opening up.

[Madox58]

@ Steve and others.
What hurts furter advance in all versions for SH?
Is the ability to use a Hex Editor.
Very, VERY, few can do so.
S3D is a very nice Tool.
But it does limit you to the programers rules.
And sometimes you need to go outside the set rules to learn.
To create new things?
Or learn an unknown area?
S3D is not the answer.

So many new and Good Modders are limited by this Tool.
They see no further than what they can do with it.
It has become a Catch 22 for all I see.

[pickinthebanjo]

Fair enough. :salute:

I would be happier if you could make me un-know the fact that my periscope would probably break off if extended when I'm making top submerged speed, and is rendered useless at anything much beyond slow ahead,:

Even if it didn't it still leaves a wake that looks like a jet going through the air:DL

[frau kaleun]

Even if it didn't it still leaves a wake that looks like a jet going through the air:DL

la la la i can't HEAR you

:O:

[Sailor Steve]

@ Steve and others.
What hurts furter advance in all versions for SH?
Is the ability to use a Hex Editor.
Very, VERY, few can do so.
S3D is a very nice Tool.
But it does limit you to the programers rules.
And sometimes you need to go outside the set rules to learn.
To create new things?
Or learn an unknown area?
S3D is not the answer.

So many new and Good Modders are limited by this Tool.
They see no further than what they can do with it.
It has become a Catch 22 for all I see.
Well, since I can't count to ten without using my fingers, I'm not going to be much help. I look at Hex Editor files and I see a bunch of numbers, none of which make the slightes sense.

I wish I could, but my talents don't lie in that direction.

[DaveP63]

I try to make it as realistic as I can within my own limitations. During the great blows I surface long enough to cram a full charge in the cans and then back downstairs. If visibility is crap, I don't even bother to try to find targets. I do cheat once and a while by using externals to look at what's on the other end of the sound trace because it keeps me from wasting an hour chasing that trawler! (see above) No clown colored boats or 16 inch deck guns for me, though. :salute:

[PappyCain]

DaveP63, Good to meet ya!

U-106 lost it's entire watch overboard in heavy seas - yet in the sim you never lose watch. I never push a boat into heavy seas, I change course to find a better slot or I submerge to wait out the storm.

Heavy seas can wreck havoc on crew and equipment below when plowing seas on the surface - yet in the sim there are no crew injuries or fatigue below while being battered. Unrealistic.

One must use their own common sense!

:salute:

[Brag]

We all ´lay pur own way within certain parameters. This is important for when we are sharing the experience. For example, we can share and create a community staying abreast on what is going on in the war. This adds to the GWXperience, as Jimbuna would say.

Someone playing dayglow subsies at 50 knots with unlimited torpedoes, well, is playing a different game. Nothing wrong with that. As long as he doesn't make false claims, it's all right with me. :DL.

BTW, false claims are easily detected. :D

[ryanglavin]

I pretty much play by Steves' rules.
However fun they may be.
I don't for manual targeting. I just have that turned off.
I did it for a month, was good at it, then just lost my touch one day.
Couldn't hit anything for another 2 weeks. Just gave up on it.
That did not stop me from making a project on Manual Targeting for School, though!

[PappyCain]

ryanglavin, there are experts aboard that can handle that! As long as one plays to historical values is what matters.

I share your sentiment Brag!


:salute:

[Dimitrius07]

U-106 lost it's entire watch overboard in heavy seas - yet in the sim you never lose watch. I never push a boat into heavy seas, I change course to find a better slot or I submerge to wait out the storm.

Well in actual game 3-4-5 we don`t have many necessary function, some are historical important and no matter how you play you will still get a half sim and half Extreme speed ahead :damn:. (yes! Extreme realistic ahead).
Its a endless cycle, unless the devs will care more about the quality of a product that cash.
Know what! Even a not so realistic product can become good, just like Das Boot. To much drama -(compare to reality) but its still one of the best movies about WW2.

[PappyCain]

What I advocate (at least for myself) is to use 'imagination' when the sim does not have a feature. I imagine my 'watch' clipped on jack lines and I run the boat at a safe speed and course in a heavy sea so the sail does not submerge - run her just like in real life if you were a skipper. If the sea is too wild, I just take her down and we dine comfortably on pickled herring and we do not get battered and bruised. It is just a matter of immersion. It would be nice if the sim modeled structural damage and man overboard in heavy seas but alas it does not.

:salute:

[pickinthebanjo]

I hear people bashing the set U-boat speeds, so whats realistic for a VIIB? Mine travels around 5-6 knots at ahead slow and maxes around 12-14, if this still seems off please post your thoughts so I can alter the .cfg's accordingly

[pickinthebanjo]

That did not stop me from making a project on Manual Targeting for School, though!

Thats pretty cool, did you look through the TDC manuals(Real) for more info?

[Sailor Steve]

I hear people bashing the set U-boat speeds, so whats realistic for a VIIB? Mine travels around 5-6 knots at ahead slow and maxes around 12-14, if this still seems off please post your thoughts so I can alter the .cfg's accordingly
The set speeds in GWX are pretty realistic. Ahead slow should be around 4 knots, the next one up should be cruising speed (9-10 knots), Standard should be around 13 knots, Full should be about 16 knots and Flank should be 17.9 for the VIIb and 17.6 for the VIIc.

Have you tried WB's new VIIa mod? Only 11 torpedoes, only 1 at the stern, no external reloads and a max speed of 17 knots even.

[Hook]

Flank should be 17.9 for the VIIb and 17.6 for the VIIc.

Where do these numbers come from? The config files for the two submarines have max speed at 17.2 and 17.0, and the basic.cfg shows the turbocharger having no speed boost.

I'm not doubting your word, just wondering how it's calculated.

Hook

[Platapus]

How people play is none of my business but it is dismaying to this old fart how cheating has become the norm - even in a sim.

I don't follow the use of the word cheating. How can someone cheat in a single player game? No one is keeping score here. It is kinda like golf, the Kaluen is really playing against themselves.

I may think it is silly to enable a mod that allows the submarine to cruise at 50 kts and launch nuclear torpedoes, but I would not think that would be cheating... just being silly.

This is, after, just a video game. People should be playing this game for fun and amusement. If someone wants to enable silly mod for their enjoyment, it in no way, diminishes the way you choose to play a video game.


I do not understand why someone thinks it is cool to cheat a sim, why? What is the point? The experience, the reward is in playing to the era conditions or go play pokemon if one needs flames and loud noises for stimulation.

Well that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. Other people may play this video game for a different thrill. We should be open to all subsim play styles.


Anyway, before I am kicked out of this forum for airing ... I sure would love to know who plays this sim properly. Could you please privately post me a short message. Those folks are the ones whose posts I will look to read. Thanks and salute to all. Whatever floats your boat.

:salute:

I am sorry you feel that you need to judge people's posts on their play style. I don't think this exclusivity attitude is good for this board or for the Subsim community. Everyone plays this video game properly. They just may not play how you choose to play it. But that does not make them any less a subsimmer, simply because they don't emulate your play style.

I wish you luck in floating your boat, for evidently what floats your boat does not float mine. :woot:

[PappyCain]

The post is intended for me to find folks who play the sim to historic values. If you choose to play arcade style that is your business. You do not need to defend yourself. My post. My standards, my request for me to find fellow club members. Some people like professional golf, some like miniature golf. I am looking for professional golf players. Enjoy your miniature golf. You bought the sim and you can play anyway you wish! As a Navy Seal, BUD/S trained, you should understand what it is I am saying.

[Madox58]

I admit that I rarely play.
But I do mod for Historic reasons.
I've never done a Flying Sub for release.
Nor advised for 'unreal' stuff.
And I won't.

This is PappyCain's thread with a simple question.
If it offends your playing/modding style?
Why not start a new thread and go from there.

(And I believe Platapus only got the Navy Seal for posts.
Not that he's a Real Seal.)

[ryanglavin]

On a follow up post, I play as realistically as possible. As in, if I see a destroyer, I go down to 160 meters, not start shooting at it with my main cannon at 6000 meters.

[Sailor Steve]

Where do these numbers come from? The config files for the two submarines have max speed at 17.2 and 17.0, and the basic.cfg shows the turbocharger having no speed boost.

I'm not doubting your word, just wondering how it's calculated.

Hook
I started with Erminio Bagnani's Submarines of World War Two. After that there are many reference works available on German u-boats as well as all other types of submarines. That said, the quickest numbers you will find match those:
http://uboat.net/types/viib.htm
http://uboat.net/types/viic.htm

One of the problems in the stock game was originally pointed out by me, and incorporated into GWX (you'll find it in their manual). That is that the Type VIIa had no superchargers, ever, period. Starting with the Type VIIb they all had them. There were no 'upgrades'; that function in the game is totally bogus.

And that's where it comes from.:sunny:

[Hook]

Thanks Steve, that makes perfect sense. The numbers you quoted were what should have been used in the sub config files.

This link http://uboatarchive.net/Manual.htm has a VIIC manual apparently written by the allies who studied a captured sub. If you search for "page 14" you can see the speeds. There's a setting for 471 RPM that is 100 percent throttle, and it gives 17.7 knots or 17.5 knots, depending on the trim. Close enough to what you've quoted.

I like what you did with the turbo/superchargers. I'd read about that in the GWX manual, and it matches what's in the config files. Your explanation is clearer than what I remember from the GWX manual, thanks.

The most useful thing I got from the VIIC manual was that "Halbe Fahrt" didn't mean 50% throttle, which freed me to use my own settings. These are not necessary intended to be historical, but the most useful for me.

AheadSlow=0.25 ; GWX was 0.40, 2 knots submerged, 2/MaxSpeedSubmerged for each boat
AheadOneThird=0.445 ; LDH was 0.57, setting for max range
AheadStandard=0.67 ; LDH was 0.80, 2/3 throttle, best speed per fuel
AheadFull=0.85 ; LDH was 0.94, HKx2 speed
AheadFlank=0.95 ; LDH was 1.00, GF, near full throttle

AheadSlow is set by GWX to give 2 knots submerged. Useful for maneuvering around the port when surfaced.

AheadOneThird is set to give the maximum range. It will be exact somewhere between 0.444 and 0.447, and appears to be the same for all subs. This is the economy cruise speed.

AheadStandard is set to 2/3 throttle, what seems to be normally used for aircraft and probably ships to give good time without excessive fuel use. You get 50% more speed but doubles the fuel use from economy cruise. This is the standard cruise speed.

AheadFull is the 2xHK setting, 0.85, and is a bit over what the stock game used for ahead standard. It's a good speed for intercepting a target. Not really fuel efficient.

AheadFlank is set to 0.95, about the throttle setting for GF, Ahead full from the stock game. A fast intercept speed.

Note that there's no setting for the actual 100% ahead flank speed. I don't use it often, and I can always click on the 20 knots on the knot meter to get there. That extra 5% uses a lot of fuel or battery life.

Hook

[ryanglavin]

Thanks Steve, that makes perfect sense. The numbers you quoted were what should have been used in the sub config files.

This link http://uboatarchive.net/Manual.htm has a VIIC manual apparently written by the allies who studied a captured sub. If you search for "page 14" you can see the speeds. There's a setting for 471 RPM that is 100 percent throttle, and it gives 17.7 knots or 17.5 knots, depending on the trim. Close enough to what you've quoted.

I like what you did with the turbo/superchargers. I'd read about that in the GWX manual, and it matches what's in the config files. Your explanation is clearer than what I remember from the GWX manual, thanks.

The most useful thing I got from the VIIC manual was that "Halbe Fahrt" didn't mean 50% throttle, which freed me to use my own settings. These are not necessary intended to be historical, but the most useful for me.

AheadSlow=0.25 ; GWX was 0.40, 2 knots submerged, 2/MaxSpeedSubmerged for each boat
AheadOneThird=0.445 ; LDH was 0.57, setting for max range
AheadStandard=0.67 ; LDH was 0.80, 2/3 throttle, best speed per fuel
AheadFull=0.85 ; LDH was 0.94, HKx2 speed
AheadFlank=0.95 ; LDH was 1.00, GF, near full throttle

AheadSlow is set by GWX to give 2 knots submerged. Useful for maneuvering around the port when surfaced.

AheadOneThird is set to give the maximum range. It will be exact somewhere between 0.444 and 0.447, and appears to be the same for all subs. This is the economy cruise speed.

AheadStandard is set to 2/3 throttle, what seems to be normally used for aircraft and probably ships to give good time without excessive fuel use. You get 50% more speed but doubles the fuel use from economy cruise. This is the standard cruise speed.

AheadFull is the 2xHK setting, 0.85, and is a bit over what the stock game used for ahead standard. It's a good speed for intercepting a target. Not really fuel efficient.

AheadFlank is set to 0.95, about the throttle setting for GF, Ahead full from the stock game. A fast intercept speed.

Note that there's no setting for the actual 100% ahead flank speed. I don't use it often, and I can always click on the 20 knots on the knot meter to get there. That extra 5% uses a lot of fuel or battery life.

Hook

Thanks for translating that into speak-easy talk. I actually now understand why I always use ahead 1/3 as my cruise speed on my Pregnant sea cow.

[nemchenk]

I'm trying to play by "historical rules", as much as the game will let me :up:

Submerging during big blows (my last patrol was fun :-? three straight weeks of 10m seas, rain, low visibility, foul foul weather between the Orkneys and the Shetlands), trying to follow the Prize Rules, surfacing for about an hour to "pick up survivors" from merchantmen I've torpedoed, etc. I figure with the GPS available on F5 and my never-failing WO, I've got all the handicap I will need :D

Here's a shot of U-17 helping the crew off a Polish Med Cargo we sunk in AN47:
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7168/helpingpolish.th.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7168/helpingpolish.jpg)

[Jimbuna]

The post is intended for me to find folks who play the sim to historic values. If you choose to play arcade style that is your business. You do not need to defend yourself. My post. My standards, my request for me to find fellow club members. Some people like professional golf, some like miniature golf. I am looking for professional golf players. Enjoy your miniature golf. You bought the sim and you can play anyway you wish! As a Navy Seal, BUD/S trained, you should understand what it is I am saying.


Precisely http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[iambecomelife]

How people play is none of my business but it is dismaying to this old fart how cheating has become the norm - even in a sim.

This sim has to be one of the best world war efforts ever produced. The GMX version is truly better than some of the military sims I have used where training is executed with state of the art million dollar infrastructure.

I am amazed at the accuracy, the level of graphics and the historic research on the technology.

Yet again and again I keep reading how folks paint their boats day glo colors, listen to metallic or rapster music, look to tweak files so boats go 50 knots, carry armament that is ridiculous to the era, claiming a dozen warships and 2 dozen merchants on a single patrol and rack up millions of tons.

I do not understand why someone thinks it is cool to cheat a sim, why? What is the point? The experience, the reward is in playing to the era conditions or go play pokemon if one needs flames and loud noises for stimulation.

Ok. I am old. haha. Old school. Sure I don't twitter, dweeb, thumb text and whatever ... but what a waste to try to have to cheat a sim to boast an ego and then post it as if it was a great acomplishment!!

Anyway, before I am kicked out of this forum for airing ... I sure would love to know who plays this sim properly. Could you please privately post me a short message. Those folks are the ones whose posts I will look to read. Thanks and salute to all. Whatever floats your boat.

:salute:

I like to think of myself as a serious player.

I usually play GWX at about 84% realism.

Dead is dead - no restarting, no matter how successful the captain was.

I actually reduced the effectiveness of the GWX deck gun, because IMHO it was still too easy to sink merchants.

Additionally, I sometimes up-armor escort ships and large merchants that I think are too easy to sink.

No funny colors - the most I will ever do is use an ahistorical conning tower emblem.

No targeting convoy escorts and picking off the whole convoy, because SH3 AI does not program ships to scatter. Taking advantage of this AI flaw to bag 10-15 merchants doesn't exactly give me a sense of accomplishment.

Definitely no hit point mods, 50-knot mods, and the like - I find them boring.

Additionally, my Merchant Fleet Mod is designed to populate SH3 with a larger number of light merchants, thus reducing average tonnage scores.

[pickinthebanjo]

Here's a shot of U-17 helping the crew off a Polish Med Cargo we sunk in AN47:
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7168/helpingpolish.th.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7168/helpingpolish.jpg)

Better be careful going that close to burning ships, I had one explode at about 50m from me and it damaged every compartment causing medium flooding and killed the entire deckgun crew including my watchofficer

[Thomen]

Better be careful going that close to burning ships, I had one explode at about 50m from me and it damaged every compartment causing medium flooding and killed the entire deckgun crew including my watchofficer

Indeed.. some time ago we had someone describing how he was sunk by... a truck.. :haha:

[nemchenk]

Better be careful going that close to burning ships, I had one explode at about 50m from me and it damaged every compartment causing medium flooding and killed the entire deckgun crew including my watchofficer
Roger that :salute: I am usually a bit further out when "helping off survivors" as per the Prize Rules, but this time I wanted to get especially close in. We had just sunk a British Tramp Steamer nearby when my watch crew spotted this Polish C2, and it was actually a bit of a judgement call whether to sink them as well, seeing how they were clearly in the area to help the British sailors. Remembering the instructions to "SINK THEM ALL!" I decided to let the C2 have it, but then make sure that the brave merchant marine sailors made it to their lifeboats and got more than adequate provisions for their journey to Blighty.

It all adds to the immersion and realism! :yeah:

[Sailor Steve]

Better be careful going that close to burning ships, I had one explode at about 50m from me and it damaged every compartment causing medium flooding and killed the entire deckgun crew including my watchofficer
That's okay. I had one explode and take out my whole boat, including me of course.

This was in the Artillery training school.:dead:

[maillemaker]

I don't follow the use of the word cheating. How can someone cheat in a single player game? No one is keeping score here. It is kinda like golf, the Kaluen is really playing against themselves.

If you are playing solitaire, and you peek at the hidden cards, are you cheating? I'd say yes.

[maillemaker]

I will play the game the way the game allows itself to be played.

If I can pick off all the escorts and surface and gun down the entire convoy, I will do it, because the software allows it.

Likewise I will raise the periscope regardless of sub speed.

I have started only carrying steamers in the external stores, though in fact I've switched to all steamers for the range advantage.

Steve

[Sailor Steve]

If you are playing solitaire, and you peek at the hidden cards, are you cheating? I'd say yes.
Good point! I'd never thought of that one before. :yeah:

[PappyCain]

You could run at flank speed in heavy seas and submerge your entire watch AND TECHNICALLY DROWN THEM - it is a software flaw with no penalty attached. Not good seamanship nor accurate to history. Refuse to drown them - go against the flawed software, change course, reduce speed, or submerge and ride out the weather. For me, it is a matter of principle to execute as true as one can. Just because the software allows you to do something bizarre does not mean you have to exploit it. For some of us when used properly it is an era simulation not just a game.

:salute:

[Keel Basa]

...is simply to get what you're looking for out of the game.

For myself, it's a simulation, but it's also an interactive narrative of myself in an alternate persona as a U-boat commander.

So little tweaks? Sure. Loading the game? Absolutely. I look at these as the effects of the expertise a real U-boat commander would have that I do not. I might have done x or y stupid thing, but a skilled German hunter wouldn't have.

I love the experience that SH3 (and its ilk) provides, and I'm an enthusiastic amateur student of history, but I'd rather not have to know EVERYTHING a real U-boat commander would have to know to play what is, at the end of the day, a game.

No disrespect to anybody who plays full realism, I'm just saying that I, personally, don't know everything that I'd need to know to play on such settings.

It's like flight sims - I don't have the equipment, nor the inclination, to be able to control things like fuel mixture effectively, but I still want the experience of slicing into a formation of Heinkels in my Hurricane. Is my experience less full than a serious grognard who plays with a customized rudder/stick/trackIR setup? No, because I spend that time on other parts of my life. I know what's involved, but I fully realize that I am not a fighter pilot.

Nor am I a submarine captain. I'm a professional journalist with a strong interest in such things. I value my experience with SH3, even though I don't play with full realism. Hell, it's even taught me life lessons about things like leadership and being decisive.

So respect to you, if you do play with all settings maxed. I think it's a fantastic achievement that people can relive moments in history with such fidelity, and I'm both amazed and fascinated by the fact that people get as into it as they do.

But don't kid yourself, some of us who don't play at max realism get quite a lot out of the game too.

Happy hunting, everybody.

[Sailor Steve]

Well said.

[PappyCain]

This thread was meant for me to find like minded. I am not interested in 'gamers' or what they think of me. Their right to play it as a game and do whatever. My right to push the educational limits as a simulation, not as a game. I am not asking gamers to join me or debate how to play.



~ PC

[Sailor Steve]

And yet your first post openly attacks 'gamers' as cheaters. I'm on your side of this debate, but when you start off that way you have to expect that people are going to respond. While I value history and only play historical sims, I don't play at 100%, so technically I'm cheating too.

[PappyCain]

Tis, tis - poor choice of words. I am against anyone 'bragging' when they use mods that allow unlimited eels, long range flak, flak guns in heavy seas, re-visiting the same honey-holes (get it?) as if they were skilled. I do not think one has to play 100% realism to enjoy but why brag about million ton patrols. Sort of like a guy who says he got a hole in one in golf but neglects to say it was miniature golf. I stand by my convictions.

[Sailor Steve]

Don't get me wrong. I stand by your convictions too. Million-ton bragging has been one of my biggest peeves since the game was released. I, on the other hand, brag about coming back empty-handed, so I guess I can't complain too much. :sunny:

[Hook]

And yet your first post openly attacks 'gamers' as cheaters.

I think his definition of cheating was fairly narrow.

Yet again and again I keep reading how folks paint their boats day glo colors, listen to metallic or rapster music, look to tweak files so boats go 50 knots, carry armament that is ridiculous to the era, claiming a dozen warships and 2 dozen merchants on a single patrol and rack up millions of tons.

I can even guess which post prompted this thread. At least TabbyHunter had a good time and provided us with an amusing anecdote, docking at Scappa Flow before the war started.

Just because I enjoy playing GWX3 at 95% realism, no map contacts with only stabilized periscope view, doesn't mean I think everyone else should. Play at whatever settings give you the most enjoyment.

I've reverted a few things to the stock game version, because my idea of realism isn't necessarily someone else's. For example, my sub and radio contacts on the map have tails. I've fixed the 1/2 degree skew in the sub overlay. I've restored the bearing indicator to the binoculars, although it's useless for anything beyond situational awareness. I have restored the renown for reaching the patrol area and completing the patrol, and since I always return to base manually, I added the additional renown that a game bug removes to the 24 hours on patrol value.

Most importantly, I'm using a gamma utility so that if I'm playing during the daytime and it's night in the game, I can see something besides a totally black screen in the bridge or periscope views. Gamma 2.2 looks fairly good most of the time, gamma 1.8 is necessary to get a lot of the screens to look good, and I'll go a step or two higher if necessary, although never enough to turn night into day.

I play in a spirit of realism, but even so I will occasionally use exploits built into the game. For example, I'll listen on the hydrophone, and if I find a contact at longer range than my sonar operator can detect, I'll go to periscope view and use the long range target lock exploit to find out what kind of contact it is. In the stock game I used to be able to determine these from the sounds, but GWX changed all the sounds, so I don't consider this a cheat or even an exploit.

If I can see a contact on the surface, but my watch crew can't, I'll use the long range target lock to point it out to them, then take full advantage of the fact that my watch officer can determine range. I still have to plot the contacts manually, and the watch officer isn't always accurate.

Any ship running without lights in a war zone at night is considered an enemy, so I don't have to use the other methods built into the game to determine if I'm in the presence of an enemy, and there are several of these. So far, every ship running without lights has indeed been enemy.

I do not use the TDC, turning it off every time I load the game, using it only to set speed and depth. I use a wiz wheel to determine lead, then position myself for a straight shot. Almost all shots are taken from 700 meters and 90 degrees AOB.

One recent patrol in late '39 I brought back 17 deck gun rounds, 1 aft torpedo, and 76513 tons of sunken enemy logged. The only time I used the deck gun on a target larger than 3000 tons was when I misidentified it. Toward the end of that patrol when I was low on ammo, I was passing up anything under 3000 tons, looking for that large merchant or tanker. Much of the patrol was played at 1x time. I log all my playing time, and that patrol took 107.25 real time hours. I never went more than 2 grid zones from my original patrol zone.

For some strange reason, I had good weather until I was nearing home port. Of course, dead calm weather has its own problems, and once I was detected at around 10 km. Might as well do daring daylight surface attacks at that point. If the weather had been the usual lousy 15 m/s winds, I'd have cut that patrol short.

Oh yes... I reverted the wave height to the stock game values as well. I still get the occasional wave breaking over the bridge if I'm going the wrong direction, but the engines usually keep running. If it gets bad enough, I'll run submerged, but even then you have to surface about every 18 hours to ventilate the boat and recharge the batteries. Yes, I've done this too, for several cycles, until I figured out where to fix the wave height.

There there is the custom fatigue model and reworked throttle settings.

I'll still reload while submerged if the weather is bad, but if it's been bad long enough I'll transfer external torps no matter what the weather, and I'm not going to do it at a standstill. I'm already taking enough of a fatigue hit for the torpedo rooms when the weather is bad. I will not submerge if in the middle of an external torpedo transfer.

I play as if Dead is Dead is in effect, although this mostly just changes the style of play. I don't think I've died more than twice the whole time I've been playing SH3.

So... with all those exploits and modifications and stock game values used, even with 95% realism settings, how much of a cheater am I? Would I even qualify for PappyCain's group? Not that it matters. It's a cool idea, and I'll be following it, but I won't be participating.

Hook

[PappyCain]

Just because I enjoy playing GWX3 at 95% realism, no map contacts with only stabilized periscope view, doesn't mean I think everyone else should. Play at whatever settings give you the most enjoyment.

I agree.

Look fellas. I enjoy everyone's post and exploits. I am rather blunt, not the politically correct guy aboard. I do jab, twist, knot and make points that may upset some types as that is how I grew up in my industry. Cannot claim it is the right way. Not interested in thought police and the warm and fuzzies. I say what I mean but do not try to be mean.

My thing is to help sway some thinking to try to play true to the era as a 'simulator' not a game. I am experienced with military and industrial simulators which are training mechanisms to help raise the bar and develop expertise as an officer, pilot, submersible operator, EOD, etc.

Gaming is for pure fun. Heck everyone games. I try all manner of things out in instant missions to learn or develop skills BUT in a serious attempt to execute well, I work the simulator style and do right by the era conditions I should execute to.

I really like all youse guys! Damn fine bunch o' squids and reprobates.

Enjoy your style. I have said that in almost every post here.

But let me ask one question for thought. Would it not be nice to compare skills with a small cadre who plays under the same set of rules? That is who I seek. Like minded. 'Unlike minded' need not be concerned. right?

My hole in one at Pebble Beach is a tat different than a hole in one at the Brighton Beach Pier! Laugh with me! This is not end of the world me looking for like minded salts.

Speaking of laughing I belonged to a club, a swanky men's club in Houston on company perk. There was this guy who bragged on and on about his big game kills and scores of ducks and grouse and trophy bucks. Now I am thinking I was a good hunter who tracked my deer 5k on a mountain range scouting for days looking for the ridge runners. Learning where they fed, bedded, moved when in rut. I have slept in snow storms, paddled dozens of miles to get deep into territory, I have hunted duck in blinds with Canadian frost bitten limbs and I have bagged trophies.

So this guy seemed to be the best hunter I have ever known when first listening to his tales. Get this. He hunted on a 10,000 acre private preserve in a heated blind where tame deer were pushed to his penthouse. These tame deer were genetically bred for large racks. He dined at night with servants wiping his face. When he bagged limits of duck it was because they were released from pens at his club in the treeline and made a beeline to their daily food source. This guy was a shooter, not a hunter. And when he fished, it was in stocked ponds. If I ever took him in the wild he would pee in his panties and starve to death. So bragging is fine when you brag to others who 'shoot' on the same private game preserve. Not good when you boast to guys who experience the true art of hunting in all weather, on the ridges, in the cedar swamps, out on winter swept ocean ledges ... but I still enjoyed having a drink with him!! He was a nice guy. I just took a hike when he started in on his hunting prowess!!

:up:

[Sailor Steve]

I think his definition of cheating was fairly narrow.
So do I. I've played tabletop wargames for over thirty years now, and my definition of 'gamers' is fairly narrow too. The 'gamers' of my aquaintance aren't interested in the history, or the tactics, or the strategy, on in anything else but playing games. They'll play anything, as long as it's fairly competitive.

Me, I play a small handful of games that recreate history or reality today (such as racing or flight sims). I'm not out to win, I'm out to enjoy the feel of being there. I spend more time cruising in and out of harbors than I do actually sinking things, and when one of my patrol reports complained about coming back empty-handed, and someone else posted telling me where the good trade was, my reply was "I know that, but my kaleun doesn't."

My comment to Pappy wasn't about his definition of either gaming or cheating, since I seem to share them. I was merely pointing out that none of us can post something that blatant and not expect hostile replies. :sunny:

My thing is to help sway some thinking to try to play true to the era as a 'simulator' not a game. I am experienced with military and industrial simulators which are training mechanisms to help raise the bar and develop expertise as an officer, pilot, submersible operator, EOD, etc.
I'm with ya one hundred percent. You should be heartened to know that I've seen more than a few posts that basically said "I first came here as a gamer trying something new, but after reading how you guys play I find myself becoming more hardcore about the realism parts. This is a whole different game."

For myself I still run external views a lot, just because I love the scenery, but if it lets me run one career with and one without, I'll run without for your campaign, just as I would do for Wolves At War.

Looking forward to see what develops.

[flag4]

for me one of the greatest ways of playing SH3 is reading the history, the books, the dvds etc. immersion comes naturally, for me, after that. i love to read the U Boat history, the commanders, the sailors, the men at the top, the unluckly ones the ones who had it all and lost: W.Luth for example. incredible life stories.

...it will be dinner time in my house, i will be on the sea in the Atlantic somewhere. i will go and do my cooking; maybe fish and potatos, a small salad - and in the background the music from the gramaphone is playing - or i can hear the waves breaking against the boat on watch.

...when i have to go out for an hour or two, i dive to twenty-thirty meters, go silent at two knots, put my best man on the hydrophones. i am sometimes sat in the laundrette thinking '..are my crew still alive..?'

...when i come home i am listening for sounds of life as i come up the stairs or are they all 1000 meters below...

these are good playing days - rare now but they still come along - the whole day long is devoted to immersion. its great. i love it. i have mods i like too. sometimes i'll just enter the game and let it run for a few hours as my crew make its way to a grid somewhere - no high TC's - just let them sail. many hours with nothing to show - days sometimes: i dont like to rush; it will come when it comes. Rushing = Impatience & Death. Death will probably come at some point, so why rush, just enjoy it.

[PappyCain]

Flag 4,

I couldn't have said it better. I too do the exact same thing! I even ran my PC 24/7 for an entire patrol in real time just to immerse into the moment, hear the sounds, wake to 'Alarm!' and stumble into action (AOD).

Good show! I salute you.

:salute:

[flag4]

Dinner tonight: Sausage and egg, side salad, Wolf by Jordan Vause: Chapter 11 - Dragons Teeth.....hmm, a small red wine too, perhaps.

Crew relaxing, a rare silence, somewhere in/below AM.

Bon Voyage Kaleu!

[Kempski]

Hello all,

What attracts me to sims is exactly the same thing as Pappycain; the opportunity to jump into that time machine and experience aspects of history that I find fascinating. A good sim only enhances the study of the events protrayed. Whether I am simming the WWII air war, ground conflicts or battle of the atlantic, I have a pile of books and movies covering the same topic. It is extremely gratifying to read about the tactics, technology and human experience and then to be able to submerge (pardon the pun) one's self into what for many of us will be the closest we will ever come to being there. I play as historically accurately as possible which can be extremely frustrating at times. For me the rewards are that much more meaningful. If I want to let off some steam after work then I might play a little "arcade" style but I am fully aware that its just a game and the rewards are different.
Playing with historically accurate tactics, technology and realism for me is also a tribute to the real men who fought and died in the events depicted in our sims of choice. With that said, to each his own, I am just glad that there are sims available. I do welcome discusion about historically accurate game play. Pappycain consider me "like minded".

-Kempski

[Sailor Steve]

Well said, Kempski, and WELCOME ABOARD!:sunny:

[FIREWALL]

After reading the OP's post I thought I pass on reading multiple opinions that just say the same thing in different ways and post what I think says it all.

You can call me a " CHEATER " when you reach in your wallet and buy my game, computer, and my online service.

You would do better to post about your successful missions and worry less how other people play THEIR games.

You;ll face less Flak Attack. :salute:

[Jimbuna]

Welcome aboard Kempski http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/welcome.gif

[PappyCain]

You would do better to post about your successful missions and worry less how other people play THEIR games.

I could care less about how one plays their game or their opinions on who or how I should seek like-minded. Start you own thread seeking gamers who play along your own values!

[FIREWALL]

Are you gonna start crying next ? :wah:
You shot your mouth off. Expect to get some heat. :O:

[Madox58]

What is so hard about seeing the OP's point of view?
:hmmm:
Everyones had thier say, he's had his counterpoint.
So now it starts devolveing into an SH5 type thing?
:nope:
FIREWALL, I'm nearly appalled at that post.
(Well, as close to appalled as I can get. I had to Google it to speel it right.:03:)

So I play at a very low reality setting.
Big deal.
But I don't brag about high tonnage or aircraft shot down.
(Usually lucky to NOT hit the bottom!)

Many have proven Grammer School is out by simpley argueing a mote point!
:o

Don't take the SH3 threads to the level that SH5 threads have dived to Guys!

I'd expect the 'Hitman' to come in here and whack your PeePees.
:har:

[jangles]

real realism would be flooding the downstairs of the house, then cracking open the floorboards and crawling underneath with a snorkel and googles when reparing damage.

Or when switching to the watchman put a blow up mattress under your chair and ask a friend to throw buckets of water in your face at randomn intervals.

buy lots of sticks of french bread and sweat it out in the kitchen by turning the oven to full and loading the 'torpedoes' when needed.

this is what I do anyway , I hope others do

:03:

[Jimbuna]

real realism would be flooding the downstairs of the house, then cracking open the floorboards and crawling underneath with a snorkel and googles when reparing damage.

Or when switching to the watchman put a blow up mattress under your chair and ask a friend to throw buckets of water in your face at randomn intervals.

buy lots of sticks of french bread and sweat it out in the kitchen by turning the oven to full and loading the 'torpedoes' when needed.

this is what I do anyway , I hope others do

:03:

You've obviously never met my wife :hmmm:

[RConch]

Actually the buckets of water must be ice cold and salty.
Also fling yourself around the room you game in to simulate depth charging.:timeout:

[pickinthebanjo]

That's okay. I had one explode and take out my whole boat, including me of course.

This was in the Artillery training school.:dead:

Must have made for an interesting letter to the family

[flag4]

You've obviously never met my wife :hmmm:

...obviously, a Veteran Kaleu of Domestic Survival - when needs must - improvise immediatley: Vacuum Cleaner = Schnorkel, no?