Will SH5 one day be a measure of greatness?

[Barso]

Does everyone think that one day SH5 will really shine?
What annoys me is the silence regarding ubisoft's news on patches.
Where they like this with the other silent hunters or is this a sign that they will abandon the game?
Maybe Dan could tell us if he is still working on it.
I do really enjoy SH5 and the mods are fantastic but will it see an expansion that will add alot more different types of panes and ships?
Thanks.

[Zachstar]

No I do not think so. SH5 is sinking and Ubisoft knows it.

[Madox58]

There will be many more planes.
That I am sure of!
I've seen them!
:up:

Ships are also on the way.
I've seen the work on them also!

Other then that?
Time will tell.

[THE_MASK]

Quote from someone :rock:
"First they will love us, then they will hate us (with reason) then after patches & mods it will be the only sub sim worth playing. "

[tonschk]

:yeah: I do really enjoy :DL SH5 :rock: and the mods are fantastic :up:



'

[soldat32]

No crew management,no complete war or list of subs and the notorious DRM.What were these idiots thinking by taking away from what came before it?Utter failure.:down:

[Madox58]

Here's a sneak peek of damage modeling of new WIP aircraft.
JU88 will have my head for this!
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll118/v11cu96/ju88dam.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

I think it will shine. I have been playing vanilla since the first day and still do. I find in enjoyable in vanilla form. With the mods being worked and created it will be better. The game as some legs already. Privateer is one of many enthusiastic creative modders making it great. :yeah:

[Ducimus]

Does everyone think that one day SH5 will really shine?


Sure it will. In about one and a half, to two years from now. Color that statement snide if you want, but it is a realistic estimate.

[Madox58]

I agree.
It's not going to happen tommorow no matter how much one
complains or holds one's breath!

It is what it is as far as any massive changes for now.

[Moeceefus]

Sure it will. In about one and a half, to two years from now. Color that statement snide if you want, but it is a realistic estimate.

so it will be like every other one in the series! :D

[jwilliams]

Yes in time, I do believe SH5 will be the best SH game. :yep:

It sure has the potential, just as long as modders dont hit any really annoying hard coded problems that cant be worked around.

:salute:

[SteelViking]

so it will be like every other one in the series! :D

Yup, it looks like it. In time this will be a great subsim just like SHIII and SH4. Some people just don't know(or remember) what they were like when they first came out.

[Nico09]

Nope

[robbo180265]

Nope


Lol - very eloquent answer , based no-doubt on the postings above - especially after seeing the work in progress posts by Privateer.

I can hardly wait for your next posting:O:


Seriously..

Those postings by Privateer really show how far things are coming in just a few months. It will take time and a lot of effort from our modders, but I expect this game to be as good as SH3 if not better:arrgh!:

[AVGWarhawk]

I agree.
It's not going to happen tommorow no matter how much one
complains or holds one's breath!

It is what it is as far as any massive changes for now.

Agreed. It is what it is for now. In knowing this I play it straight out of the box. Even with the bugs and what not the game is enjoyable. At least I'm having a good time even thought my dumb sonarman still can not hear himself break wind let alone props in the water. :doh: The more things that changed in the SH5 from SH3/4, the more they stayed the same. That would be me working everything with exception of the deck gun. Those guys are good.

[Faamecanic]

I agree.
It's not going to happen tommorow no matter how much one
complains or holds one's breath!

It is what it is as far as any massive changes for now.

:yeah: What privateer said. But I still reserve the right to complain and hold my breath until I turn BLUE!

[robbo180265]

:yeah: What privateer said. But I still reserve the right to complain and hold my breath until I turn BLUE!

Lol - sometimes I really love your style:rotfl2:

[Faamecanic]

Lol - sometimes I really love your style:rotfl2:

My passive agressive negativity can also be misconstrued as that dry "Monty Python" like humor. It all depends on how one takes it :salute: :har:

[Nico09]

Lol - very eloquent answer , based no-doubt on the postings above - especially after seeing the work in progress posts by Privateer.

I can hardly wait for your next posting:O:


Seriously..

Those postings by Privateer really show how far things are coming in just a few months. It will take time and a lot of effort from our modders, but I expect this game to be as good as SH3 if not better:arrgh!:

You will be surprised to hear that i am not known for my eloquence, but i did try in that post. :O:

As for the game, i gave up on it after the patches failed to be released when they said, although i tried it with 1.02 and a few mods but tbh lost total interest in it way before then, ahhh well an expensive coaster i suppose, although i may blow the dust of it someday.:yawn:

[JU_88]

JU88 will have my head for this!


Not at all mate :)

[Letum]

For some round here, AOTD is still the measure of a great subsim.
With good reason too.

[Brag]

Judging by the number of posters and the nature of the posts, only a handful of users are still playing.

SH5 with its OSP-DRM-Uplayskool is going to greatness like a Guatemalan sink hole.

:dead:

[IanC]

For some round here, AOTD is still the measure of a great subsim.
With good reason too.

Yeah, AOD set the bar.

[robbo180265]

Judging by the number of posters and the nature of the posts, only a handful of users are still playing.

SH5 with its OSP-DRM-Uplayskool is going to greatness like a Guatemalan sink hole.

:dead:


You're semi right....

I'm not playing SH5 at the moment because I am so bored sinking the same seven ships over and over and also because my pooter (which only has a single core processor) has started to struggle when playing it, since the last patch.

I have only once had a problem with the DRM , since that one time I've not had any troubles at all.
In fact I don't even think about it unless someone brings it up here.

Sorry to rain on your parade Brag...

[Brag]

You're semi right....

I'm not playing SH5 at the moment because I am so bored sinking the same seven ships over and over and also because my pooter (which only has a single core processor) has started to struggle when playing it, since the last patch.

I have only once had a problem with the DRM , since that one time I've not had any troubles at all.
In fact I don't even think about it unless someone brings it up here.

Sorry to rain on your parade Brag...

LOL, not my parade.
The DRM is not so much a failure issue for subscribers but the large number of people who won't buy this DRM over privacy and other problems.
:DL

[AVGWarhawk]

What is DRM? Nevermind.


SH5 will see greatness. It is only a matter of time. :03:

[Rockin Robbins]

I just don't like the fact that three off-switches stand between your ability to play the game and the end of the game. In less than a second, nobody would be able to play SH5 without some really heroic hacks. Chances are those hacks would result in prosecution, even if they only allowed those who bought the game to play it.

Basically, private servers would have to be run and players' computers would have to have their HOSTS files altered to redirect website calls to those servers. And that would only work if the game works in certain standard ways. If it doesn't, even that may not be possible.

So there's your main problem. Mods could make SH5 the best subsim in the world and the next day Ubi can just shut it down, rendering all that work worthless.

I hope someone with the foresight to see the problem and the wisdom not to release or divulge the solution until it's needed is working on the situation.

[Barso]

It's a real shame the game doesn't seem to be more popular than SH3 and SH4 but then I only came back to PC gaming last year.
I was able to buy SH3 on steam for £5 and DL GWX and also SH4 and uboat missions from ebay for £10.
I was not around to play and experience the bugs they had at launch.
So I am currently playing SH3 and 4 fully patched and modded.
I am really enjoying SH4 and monsun and it's fantastic at 1920x1200 with not one framerate drop but SH5 with all it's eye candy really does need a mod like GWX.
The lack of ships and planes really kill any longevity for me and the fact it ends so early is a shame. I know it finishes when the uboats were being hunted and destroyed but should it not be part of the game to become the hunted rather than do the hunting?
I am finding it hard to adjust to GWX with the ageing graphics but I guess that's what only coming back to PC gaming has done for me.
But I honestly can never see SH5 getting a mod like that as the ubisoft forums are empty and I can just see the ubisoft CEO stopping development due to the low sales with not even an expansion coming.
But I will be happy with SH4 for a long time to come.

[The General]

So there's your main problem. Mods could make SH5 the best subsim in the world and the next day Ubi can just shut it down, rendering all that work worthless.
Please don't hold back from making SH5 the greatest Subsim of all times because of something that might happen.

[IanC]

I used to think it was just a matter of time untill SH5 became great, but now I'm not so sure.
SH3 achieved 'greatness' with GWX because, patched to 1.4b, it had a pretty solid foundation to build on.
But with SH5... how great can you build a building if the foundation is rotten? Ubi needs to pour some high quality cement and give us a couple more patches.

[Barso]

Why do ubi not give an update on what's happening?
I understand Dan posts on here, can Dan not let us know if he's working on a patch or if an expansion is in the works?

[Madox58]

Not at all mate :)

I didn't think so.
:up:
So here's a shot of a ship in progress.
It's an Ambient Occlusion testing Render.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/AOYew.jpg

The Type 14 Milk Cow in Goblin.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Type_14_New.png

[AVGWarhawk]

So there's your main problem. Mods could make SH5 the best subsim in the world and the next day Ubi can just shut it down, rendering all that work worthless.



I would suspect that legally it can not be done. But, if you look closely at SH5 in the Document folder for SH5 there is the rich saved game and saved game folders. This begs the question....if my games are saved on the server why do I need these two saved game folders locally? These are the same folders used by SH4 yet SH4 does not have DRM. In short, the game is ready to be played without having to be connected with DRM. The folders are there to save locally much like SH4. The only switch that will be hit is the one that eliminates having to be connected by DRM. I think UBI would be in a world of trouble if the server was just switched off and UBI said, "Oh well." Let's not forget the nice .exe file loaded on patch 2 for SH4 that eliminated having to use your disc to start the game.

[AVGWarhawk]

Nice work Privateer. Can these be imported to the game? I heard that might be an issue. :hmmm:

[Madox58]

The only issue I and others have found is the exact steps needed to get
things right for importing the new dats.
I'm working on programs to speed this up.

The biggest slow down is that my system will not run SH5.

I do theory based work, then send the files off for testing.
(unless I can get on my Stepson's system)
Then reports come back and I adjust as needed.
That process can take 2 days for a minor adjustment.

But I can say that things are looking very good for useing dats
in many ways!
:yeah:

[Madox58]

I would suspect that legally it can not be done. But, if you look closely at SH5 in the Document folder for SH5 there is the rich saved game and saved game folders. This begs the question....if my games are saved on the server why do I need these two saved game folders locally? These are the same folders used by SH4 yet SH4 does not have DRM. In short, the game is ready to be played without having to be connected with DRM. The folders are there to save locally much like SH4. The only switch that will be hit is the one that eliminates having to be connected by DRM. I think UBI would be in a world of trouble if the server was just switched off and UBI said, "Oh well." Let's not forget the nice .exe file loaded on patch 2 for SH4 that eliminated having to use your disc to start the game.

Ubi would be sued to the ends of the Earth should they not keep that final promise.
Class Action LawSuit is a phrase no business likes to hear mumbled about!
Unless your business is a Law Company.
:haha:

[Barso]

That work looks fantastic Privateer.
How did you start getting into modelling those?
My wife has a computer science masters degree and she hates computers!
Strange!

[Madox58]

The 3D models are by Ju88.
I do 3D models but not as well as he does!
I'm merely the one who spends way to much time figureing out
how to get them in the Game properly.

My computer skills go way back with no real training at all.
I even had my own ISP at one time!
:haha:
Then worked for Lawyers and Judges for awhile,
did some repair work for several Major system Builders.

Mostly?
It's just my hobby.

I do construction work to earn my money.
:o
But I am VERY good at that.

[Barso]

I am in construction myself,self employed.
I think it's amazing how you guys can mod these games.
For me it's why pc games stand the test of time and why I never delete them from my HDD.
It's a great hobby pc building, only last year did I build my pc and already it's watercooled and my wife thinks it's like something NASA built!

[JU_88]

So there's your main problem. Mods could make SH5 the best subsim in the world and the next day Ubi can just shut it down, rendering all that work worthless.

And also the next day, China could just randomly decide to nuke us all to radioactive dust, this would equally make Sh5 mods usless.
Hell, I could steal my lunch tomorrow instead of paying for it, but it doesnt mean I will.
Ubi has already stated that if the servers go off, the patch comes out. .. :woot:

[Sailor Steve]

But it doesn't mean you won't, either, you evil nasty person, you!

"Always look on the bright...si-ide of life, doo doo, doo doo doo dee doo..."

[Bubblehead1980]

Only 7 ships? That is just ****ty

[Madox58]

They probably have Tuna Sandwiches anyway.
:nope:
Or cold McDonalds which heated up in a microwave taste worse then Tuna!

Now I have to duck because the Evil DRM is flying over me.
:haha:

[Rockin Robbins]

And also the next day, China could just randomly decide to nuke us all to radioactive dust, this would equally make Sh5 mods usless.
Hell, I could steal my lunch tomorrow instead of paying for it, but it doesnt mean I will.
Ubi has already stated that if the servers go off, the patch comes out.:woot:
Has Ubi actually said that? I think not. If I remember properly, the question was directly put to them, "if you turn off your servers, we're out of business. What assurance do we have that you won't do that?" Ubi's reply was a weasely "well at this time we have no plans to do that and we would certainly hope to issue a patch if that ever happened."

Wishful thinking is no basis to enter into a contractual arrangement with a company who has the right to shut you down for no reason and with no warning. Ubi has that unquestioned and unlimited right.

There is no language in the EULA requiring the patch to happen. Therefore any legal action would be laughed out of court. EA did disconnect the servers for two games less than a year old and it stuck. No judgments against EA. No apologies from EA. Just "in your face bubs." Corporations can get very cold and hard-hearted. We need to expect it and govern our behavior responsibly.

You wouldn't buy a house if the seller had the right to bulldoze it without warning at any time in the future, would you? Or would you say it was OK because China could nuke us all into talcum powder anyway? No, you would insist that your rights be protected in the contract or you wouldn't enter into the agreement.

So unlike the bad analogy with China, where there is no historical evidence of China ever going to war for the purpose of conquering even close neighbors (Tibet is arguable either way). They are not and never have been an imperialist nation. They do not have a European outlook on the glory of conquest.

However game companies regularly engage in the behavior of cutting their losses by withdrawing support for a game, and in the case of servers, eliminating them to save money. It is no stretch to predict that Ubi would do the same. Already, silence says that we will see no future patches, there is no dev team, no work is being done on their part to give SH5 a future. SH5 is dead. The only life it has left is right here at Subsim.

Isn't it ironic that Jagex has over 150 servers for a free game and Ubi has 3 for a formerly premium priced one? It says something about commitment. It's essential that someone work on the private server angle without implementing it so that when those three switches move to the off position owners of the game have recourse.

[Sailor Steve]

Has Ubi actually said that? I think not.
I don't remember the exact thread or I'd quote it, but someone has alread quoted that it's in the EU-whatever it is. They actually have it officially written in the official comes-with-the-game official statement.

Or so I've been unofficially told.

[Madox58]

Meh!
Ubi can shut things down tommorow for all I care.
:haha:
They missed the boat months ago!
They know it, you know it, We all know it!

Let's talk in the REAL WORLD!
Not the fabricated world created by Ubi DRM haters.

Ubi tried and failed in a most glorious way to stop
you from useing the software as and when you wish.

They did all the calculations, followed the standard curve.
And what happened?
They got burned!

And if they shut down the servers without a patch?
There's a billion scum suckers waiting to launch Class Actions on them.
They won't risk that!
Not with BP dumping Oil in the Gulf!

[mobucks]

i read in interviews that duh if the DRM gets dropped they patch it out. Not really hard to do that to an EXE guys. Direct2Drive has to do it to their games.

I swear i love this quote i read on NMA.

"Pessimism is, in brief, playing the sure game. You cannot lose at it; you may gain. It is the only view of life in which you can never be disappointed. Having reckoned what to do in the worst possible circumstances, when better arise, as they may, life becomes child's play."
~Thomas Hardy

[jwilliams]

Has Ubi actually said that? I think not. If I remember properly, the question was directly put to them, "if you turn off your servers

Yes Ubi have said that....

It's in the EULA


3- Use of the Multimedia Product

The User is authorised to use the Multimedia Product in accordance with the instructions provided in the manual or on the packaging of the Multimedia Product.
The Licence is granted solely for private use.

It is not permitted:
- To make copies of the Multimedia Product,
- To operate the Multimedia Product commercially,
- To use it contrary to morality or the laws in force,
- To modify the Multimedia Product or create any derived work,
- To transmit the Multimedia Product via a telephone network or any other electronic means, except during multi-player games on authorised networks,
- To create or distribute unauthorised levels and/or scenarios,
- To decompile, reverse engineer or disassemble the Multimedia Product.

The Multimedia Product can only be played after the User registers the Multimedia Product and obtains a unique ubi.com account. This Multimedia Product is distributed solely for use by the authorized end User who has registered the Multimedia Product and obtained a unique ubi.com account.

The User cannot transfer, sell, resell, sublicense, rent or lease the Multimedia Product to a third party.

You understand and agree that this Multimedia Product requires an online connection at all times and the Multimedia Product must be played through the Internet services provided at ubi.com. In the event Ubisoft terminates or discontinues Internet services associated with this Multimedia Product, Ubisoft will provide a software update that will allow the User to utilize the Multimedia Product without connecting to Ubisoft's servers.C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\Ubisoft Game Launcher\EULA

So i guess that, if they dont release the patch to remove the DRM should the servers get switched off. Then they'll be in court.

[JU_88]

Has Ubi actually said that?.

Yes. :)
Why would it be in Ubi's intreast to break consumer law and render their own product usless?
That is a bridge to far even for them.
And TBH if someone is so worried that this might happen, then why did they buy SHV in the first place?

Anyway my point was that, anyone who refuses to do something over some highly unlikely worst case scenario, may as well not bother getting out of bed in the morning.
By the same logic and we may as well just drop everything and live in fear of what 'could 'potentially happen in every single day to day scenario.

Dont get on a plane, as it might crash
Dont buy expensive goods, as they might get stolen.
Dont eat food, as it might be poisoned
Dont have loved ones as they might turn on you one day.
etc etc

'Can' and 'Will' are two very different things and nothing in this life is without risks.

[robbo180265]

Yes. :)
Why would it be in Ubi's intreast to break consumer law and render their own product usless?
That is a bridge to far even for them.
And TBH if someone is so worried that this might happen, then why did they buy SHV in the first place?

Anyway my point was that, anyone who refuses to do something over some highly unlikely worst case scenario, may as well not bother getting out of bed in the morning.
By the same logic and we may as well just drop everything and live in fear of what 'could 'potentially happen in every single day to day scenario.

Dont get on a plane, as it might crash
Dont buy expensive goods, as they might get stolen.
Dont eat food, as it might be poisoned
Dont have loved ones as they might turn on you one day.
etc etc

'Can' and 'Will' are two very different things and nothing in this life is without risks.

+1:up:

Very wise words indeed.

[AVGWarhawk]

Has Ubi actually said that? I think not. If I remember properly, the question was directly put to them, "if you turn off your servers, we're out of business. What assurance do we have that you won't do that?" Ubi's reply was a weasely "well at this time we have no plans to do that and we would certainly hope to issue a patch if that ever happened."

Wishful thinking is no basis to enter into a contractual arrangement with a company who has the right to shut you down for no reason and with no warning. Ubi has that unquestioned and unlimited right.

There is no language in the EULA requiring the patch to happen. Therefore any legal action would be laughed out of court. EA did disconnect the servers for two games less than a year old and it stuck. No judgments against EA. No apologies from EA. Just "in your face bubs." Corporations can get very cold and hard-hearted. We need to expect it and govern our behavior responsibly.

You wouldn't buy a house if the seller had the right to bulldoze it without warning at any time in the future, would you? Or would you say it was OK because China could nuke us all into talcum powder anyway? No, you would insist that your rights be protected in the contract or you wouldn't enter into the agreement.

So unlike the bad analogy with China, where there is no historical evidence of China ever going to war for the purpose of conquering even close neighbors (Tibet is arguable either way). They are not and never have been an imperialist nation. They do not have a European outlook on the glory of conquest.

However game companies regularly engage in the behavior of cutting their losses by withdrawing support for a game, and in the case of servers, eliminating them to save money. It is no stretch to predict that Ubi would do the same. Already, silence says that we will see no future patches, there is no dev team, no work is being done on their part to give SH5 a future. SH5 is dead. The only life it has left is right here at Subsim.

Isn't it ironic that Jagex has over 150 servers for a free game and Ubi has 3 for a formerly premium priced one? It says something about commitment. It's essential that someone work on the private server angle without implementing it so that when those three switches move to the off position owners of the game have recourse.

The problem here with this RR is UBI has much more invested in other games requiring DRM and these games are revenue generators. These game share the same server as SH5.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Anyway my point was that, anyone who refuses to do something over some highly unlikely worst case scenario, may as well not bother getting out of bed in the morning.
By the same logic and we may as well just drop everything and live in fear of what 'could 'potentially happen in every single day to day scenario.


:yep:

http://i106.piczo.com/view/2/y/h/0/s/0/5/d/4/f/n/5/img/t327665939_57772_6.gif

[AVGWarhawk]

Anyway my point was that, anyone who refuses to do something over some highly unlikely worst case scenario, may as well not bother getting out of bed in the morning.
By the same logic and we may as well just drop everything and live in fear of what 'could 'potentially happen in every single day to day scenario.



Like RDP..I agree lock, stock and barrel.

[tonschk]

Yes. :)
Why would it be in Ubi's intreast to break consumer law and render their own product usless?
That is a bridge to far even for them.
And TBH if someone is so worried that this might happen, then why did they buy SHV in the first place?

Anyway my point was that, anyone who refuses to do something over some highly unlikely worst case scenario, may as well not bother getting out of bed in the morning.
By the same logic and we may as well just drop everything and live in fear of what 'could 'potentially happen in every single day to day scenario.

Dont get on a plane, as it might crash
Dont buy expensive goods, as they might get stolen.
Dont eat food, as it might be poisoned
Dont have loved ones as they might turn on you one day.
etc etc

'Can' and 'Will' are two very different things and nothing in this life is without risks.

:rock: This is a Excellent post :yeah:, I totally and completely Agree:up: :DL

[scratch81]

:rock: This is a Excellent post :yeah:, I totally and completely Agree:up: :DL
I disagree, simply because you might be wrong. :D

[Madox58]

If you were not around when SH3 came out?
You missed pretty much the same crap posts.
Same with SH4.
We were ripped off and and on and on and on!
Get over it Guys!
You are Adults right?
(Based on averages gathered by unknown sources not totally Legal)
Do us all a favor please.
Just stop the BS!
SH5 will be a Master Piece down the line!
But demanding this to happen in less then 3 months?
What World do you live on that makes you see this happening?
I might want to move there!
:har:
We (Myself included) have trashed the Dev's
so bad it's no wonder they no longer post here.
Yet you demand they answer your petty blettings?

We rate ourselves way to high at times.
Then slam on others we barely know because they did not do what we want.
When we want it and how we want it.
:nope:

In truth?
We are a sorry lot of people at times.

[Sailor Steve]

I beg to differ. I'm a sorry lot of people all the time!:D

But I agree that given time this could well be the most memorable sim ever. :rock:

[Madox58]

I'll modify my post then to say:
We are a sorry lot of people at times.
Except for Sailor Steve.
He's sorry all the time.
(Richard!)
:har:

[Rockin Robbins]

Actually, what JU 88 posted makes no sense at all since it merely replaced pessimism based on EA's past behavior, logically extending it to Ubi's direction. Why would a game company?..... Why DID EA? It stuck. No lawsuits prevailed. Wishful thinking does not refute pessimism. It merely replaces one opinion with another.

However, what jwilliams posted, quoting from the EULA, makes tons of sense. Ubi thereby entered into a couple of thousand (however many copies they/ve sold to the end user) written contracts to patch out the DRM if they disconnect the servers. Therefore, I can heartily state that the Sword of Damocles is made of cardboard in this case. Ubi would disconnect the servers and leave players hanging at their peril.

So the only real negative effect of the DRM is that you can't play the game without a full-time connection and the secondary market, your fair use right with all other copyrighted material, has been denied to you. However, this devalued the product to the point that the primary market prices are depressed to where the resale market would have been without the DRM nonsense. Looks like a home run for Ubi to me!:D

Still, I say the only life SH5 has is right here at Subsim. I'm glad that Privateer and company aren't wasting their time and hope all of you have great success with the game. You certainly have your work cut out for you. Maybe next year this time SH5 will be a real subsim. You guys certainly are capable enough if there aren't horrible obstacles in the hard coding.

[Nordmann]

Ubi would disconnect the servers and leave players hanging at their peril.

What peril would they face, if the company had already gone out of business? None.

[Rockin Robbins]

Ubi's not going out of business no matter what SH5 does. Their console games are selling well and don't need any quality to sell humongous numbers.

[JU_88]

Actually, what JU 88 posted makes no sense at all since it merely replaced pessimism based on EA's past behavior, logically extending it to Ubi's direction. Why would a game company?..... Why DID EA? It stuck. No lawsuits prevailed. Wishful thinking does not refute pessimism. It merely replaces one opinion with another.

Even though my 'wishful thinking' was actually based on the very Eula Agreement which made perfect sense to you?
Well ok then....

Basically, Some folks where going off on a tangent saying they (Ubi) for no apparent logical reason, could decide to kill off the servers and not patch, thus rendering the game worthless.
All I was mearely saying is that is rather unlikley (insert Eula agreement) and therefore I woudn't let such hysteria effect me from modding the game.
Im not trying to replace blind pessimism with blind optimistism as you seem to be suggesting, I was just trying to be realistic.
That is all.

Out of interest, what laws have EA broken recently?

[THE_MASK]

I think people are forgetting one important fact in all this , the devs . They have put there heart and soul into this series . I dont think they will just let it dissapear .

[Sonarman]

Ubi's not going out of business no matter what SH5 does. Their console games are selling well and don't need any quality to sell humongous numbers.

I think people are forgetting one important fact in all this , the devs . They have put there heart and soul into this series . I dont think they will just let it dissapear .


@ Rockin Robbins
True but despite selling 9 million copies of AC2 Ubi is still having a problem showing a profit as shown in this GameDaily Article (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/the%20studio%20has%20grown%20to%20almost%20400%20i n%20its%20heyday%20and%20has%20now%20downsized%20t o%20only%2050%20staff-specialists%20in%20different%20fields%20of%20activ ity).

@Sober
Also true, but at the end of the day the devs are employees of Ubi and must do as they are told if they wish to remain so. To quote Wikipedia "the studio had grown to almost 400 in its heyday and has now downsized to only 50 staff-specialists in different fields of activity" The "best" of the series SH3 was released before this happened..."Romania joined the European Union on January 1, 2007. Romania is now an upper-middle income country with high human development" (Wiki)

I just hope that they factor in the effect on sales of making SH5 the poster boy for DRM when making any decisions about the future although according to Neal SH5 is the last we'll see of the Silent Hunter series, let's hope for once he is wrong!

[Rockin Robbins]

Even though my 'wishful thinking' was actually based on the very Eula Agreement which made perfect sense to you?
Well ok then....

Basically, Some folks where going off on a tangent saying they (Ubi) for no apparent logical reason, could decide to kill off the servers and not patch, thus rendering the game worthless.
All I was mearely saying is that is rather unlikley (insert Eula agreement) and therefore I woudn't let such hysteria effect me from modding the game.
Im not trying to replace blind pessimism with blind optimistism as you seem to be suggesting, I was just trying to be realistic.
That is all.
Where did you quote the EULA? Where did you mention the EULA? You just made an unsupported statement that you didn't think the servers would be shut off. I concluded that you, being a reasonable person, would back up your assertion if there were any backup.

Out of interest, what laws have EA broken recently?
I never said EA broke any laws. They disconnected two servers without notice for games less than a year old. Absent any written contract to the contrary they have a perfect (ok, imperfect because it sucks and nobody can do anything about it) right to do as they please. Without the specific clause in the EULA, which is normally not even able to be read until the box is opened and so is not a voluntary contract on the part of the game purchaser, Ubi would be able to do that too.

I'm glad that Ubi is holding themselves to a slightly higher moral standard than EA.

[Nisgeis]

Where did you quote the EULA? Where did you mention the EULA? You just made an unsupported statement that you didn't think the servers would be shut off.

The post immediately preceeding JU88's post quoted the EULA, so I don't think it was necessary for him to quote it again. He said 'Yes' to the question of had Ubi said they would patch out the DRM after the post that quoted the EULA, so it wasn't really an unsupported statement.

Is all this really necessary though. I mean the point is even if Ubi will explode and anyone you ask pretends they never heard of Ubisoft, you'll still be able to enjoy playing it now, if you do.

[Moeceefus]

some people just prefer to wear foil hats no matter what the facts are. :yawn:

[Nisgeis]

some people just prefer to wear foil hats no matter what the facts are. :yawn:

Well, that's just a sensible precaution. The cost is minimal and the benefits are great.

[Rockin Robbins]

And unlike SH5 the foil hat is mine, not rented for a limited time. I can also sell, lend, rent or give away my foil hat. And all its features work properly. It has no insipid cook asking me to try his soup. In a pinch I can use my foil hat to barbecue some great corn!

By the way, is the cook really in the game?
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/hangin.gif

[AVGWarhawk]

And unlike SH5 the foil hat is mine, not rented for a limited time. I can also sell, lend, rent or give away my foil hat. And all its features work properly. It has no insipid cook asking me to try his soup. In a pinch I can use my foil hat to barbecue some great corn!

By the way, is the cook really in the game?
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/hangin.gif

Yes and his only thing on the menu is stew......

[AVGWarhawk]

I think people are forgetting one important fact in all this , the devs . They have put there heart and soul into this series . I dont think they will just let it dissapear .

Heart and soul are one thing...if the numbers are not there then it make no difference. There is a old saying, "It's business. You understand."

[John Channing]

And unlike SH5 the foil hat is mine, not rented for a limited time. I can also sell, lend, rent or give away my foil hat. And all its features work properly. It has no insipid cook asking me to try his soup. In a pinch I can use my foil hat to barbecue some great corn!

By the way, is the cook really in the game?
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/hangin.gif

Yes he is and, interestingly, has never offered me any soup. Not once.

I now believe that to have been a bit for the opening video only.

JCC

[JU_88]

The RPG element might as well be replaced with some practical orders you can give to your crew.
i would much rather ask my hydraphone guy to sweep for contacts rather ask him the latest gossip.
And the special ablilties? they really need to GO.

[Nordmann]

Ubi's not going out of business no matter what SH5 does. Their console games are selling well and don't need any quality to sell humongous numbers.

Exactly. Which means the servers won't be coming down any time soon, that is unless of course a DRM activist bombs their host! :haha:

[Madox58]

There is a old saying, "It's business. You understand."

I've adapted that saying somewhat.

"Business is bad you say? ******* You! PAY ME!"
Seems Ubi stoled that.
Should I sue them?
:hmmm:

[Platapus]

Perhaps SH5 will be as good as SH2?

[Madox58]

Perhaps SH5 will be as good as SH2?
Now that's just down right insulting.

[Safe-Keeper]

The answer is yes, of course -- provided we let it, SH5 can surpass even SHIII. It certainly has the moddability, and several of the most significant bugs are fixed by mods already. The only question is really how long people are gonna stick with it. The answer, I think, is a long time. Once the first big mod is launched (or the first SHIII-style campaign, whichever comes first), people will come back in droves.

[Sonarman]

deleted

[tonschk]

It's a real shame the game doesn't seem to be more popular than SH3 and SH4 but then I only came back to PC gaming last year.

.

I think you are WRONG

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/8963/nn80.png (http://img709.imageshack.us/i/nn80.png/)

[robbo180265]

I think you are WRONG

HUGE PNG SCREENSHOT



Actually - I frequent this forum first then move on to the SH3 forum. I haven't played SH5 for weeks but like to keep abreast of whats going on with it. I also try to help newbies as much as I can.

For the last few weeks (and I've said this in a number of other posts here) I've got my U Boat fix from SH3 only.

So I'm afraid that your huge PNG screenshot is certainly not accurate when it comes to me tonschk.

I'd also hazzard a guess that there are quite a few other members like me - who would have pushed the figures up:03:



Edit to add: For the love of all that's holy tonschk please, please, please post jpg's

[Fincuan]

I'd also hazzard a guess that there are quite a few other members like me - who would have pushed the figures up


I don't even own the game, and yet I browse the forums almost daily to keep up with its current state and to enjoy the occasional drama. My WW2 submarine fix comes strictly from SH4, but there's not much new to discuss about it so I don't hang around its forum that much. Judging by the posts and threads around here there's indeed quite a lot of us doing the same thing.

[Karasunx]

I know I haven't posted much and so what I have to say doesn't carry the merit or weight as someone with 1000+ posts, but...I really enjoy SH5 and think it's great for what it is. The game does have its issues but after the patches there's been less I've come across that makes it a bad gaming experience. I appreciate what the developers have done in trying for not only a submarine simulation but also an immersive submarine experience. In SH2 I was blown away with being able to stand on the bridge of my u-boat and sail a 3 dimensional sea. Now I can walk around the entire submarine and talk with my crew (albeit in tiny, one dimensional conversations) but it still is one step closer to feeling like I'm actual commanding a submarine in the Atlantic. I mean to have a game company that strives to provide as best a game they can for such a niche market is admirable. I think people have been too harsh on a game that's only going to get better, we just have to support it. Anyways, I apologize for that becoming a rant, but I like the product I purchased.

[robbo180265]

I know I haven't posted much and so what I have to say doesn't carry the merit or weight as someone with 1000+ posts, but....

Your view is every bit as important as any others.

1000 posts just indicate that the person concerned has posted a lot, it doesn't necessarily mean their posts are worth reading :rotfl2:

[MrYenko]

I think you are WRONG

MASSIVE SCREENSHOT



Your default Windows XP colors almost made my eyes bleed. Seriously, your on-patrol night vision must be terrible after starting software up from that desktop.

;)

[Sailor Steve]

@ Karasunx: First let me repeat what Robbo said - your opinion is as good as anybody's, as long as it's given fairly. And yours was. It didn't read to me like a rant at all.

I would disagree about SH2, as I had my own reasons for not liking it. It's irrelevant to go into them now; I just wanted to point out that just because I disagree doesn't mean I think you are necessarily wrong.

And it's true of SH5. You have your reasons for liking it, others have their reasons for not liking it, and others have their reasons for not buying it yet. All are valid. where they become invalid is when people say useless things like "It's wonderful" or "It stinks" or "I still refuse to buy it and you're an idiot for doing so!"

SH2 had problems that were insurmountable. SH3 has problems that have never been fixed, but we ignore them because the good far outweighs the bad. SH4 still has problems, but it's got some cool stuff as well. SH5 has problems, and the general concensus seems to be that at present it is still suffering and needs much more attention. Except for the "haters" and the "lovers", neither of whom give honest appraisals nor add anything worthwhile to the debate, the general concensus also is that once SH5 recieves that attention it stands a good chance of surpassing anything that's gone before.

Some put up with the problems and still like the game. Others feel that the older games give more satisfaction at this point. Both are right. They just need to see that.

As I said, your opinion is valid because it was an opinion and nothing more. Despite your disclaimer, it was hardly a rant. :sunny:

[krashkart]

If you want a rant, hang out with me the next time something goes wonky on my computer (you probably won't hang out long after that :rotfl2:). Stating your opinion in a clear manner is just that: stating your opinion in a clear manner. It's when someone shoves their opinion down our throats that it becomes "sporty". :03: Sailor Steve, as always, said it better than I do. Very eloquent for a Navy guy. :D *dons helmet and awaits ton of bricks*

@tonschk - Please, please young grasshopper; big PNG's are hard on some of our connections. Try a full quality JPEG instead. Just as good in smaller size. ;)

[Barso]

I loved SH5 as soon as it came out. I was in love with the graphics and the fact I could walk around the sub but then the problems set in for me.
Where are all the different ships and planes? Why can I not communicate with my crew from the bridge and the bugs were Insurmountable.
But I perservered because I loved the graphics and after reading how much better SH3 and GWX were, I just couldn't get used to the aged graphics.
But for me the turning point came and that was the realization that until SH5 had been fully patched, fixed and modded it was better left on the shelf.
So I went back to SH3 GWX and bumped up AFx16 AAx32 and as I stood on the bridge, watched the band play and planes fly overhead, I realized what SH5 was missing and that's the real atmosphere and feeling if being in a German sub leaving port at the beginning of WW2.
I guess it's up to ubisoft now to fix the bugs and AI and that's where my real frustration sets in as I have a feeling ubisoft has washed their hands of the SH franchise.

[tonschk]

I know I haven't posted much and so what I have to say doesn't carry the merit or weight as someone with 1000+ posts, but...I really enjoy SH5 and think it's great for what it is. The game does have its issues but after the patches there's been less I've come across that makes it a bad gaming experience. I appreciate what the developers have done in trying for not only a submarine simulation but also an immersive submarine experience. In SH2 I was blown away with being able to stand on the bridge of my u-boat and sail a 3 dimensional sea. Now I can walk around the entire submarine and talk with my crew (albeit in tiny, one dimensional conversations) but it still is one step closer to feeling like I'm actual commanding a submarine in the Atlantic. I mean to have a game company that strives to provide as best a game they can for such a niche market is admirable. I think people have been too harsh on a game that's only going to get better, we just have to support it. Anyways, I apologize for that becoming a rant, but I like the product I purchased.


:rock: I Totally 100% AGREE , :yeah:


.

[Karasunx]

Thank you guys for your opinions and feedback. This is the first forum I've been a part of and I know how people can act online (I play Modern Warfare 2 on X-Brick Live:O:). I can definitely see how people can be upset with what was given as far as SH5, but I think the game has yet to reach its apex. I just don't understand protesting things like DRM by not buying the game. Yeah it is annoying and almost insulting to honest people who bought the game. I just think not buying it and outright saying you won't buy it makes it seem like a financial loss to Ubi which in turn makes them question why they should even support it. I hope I'm wrong because I think the developers still want to refine it and get it closer to what they would want it to be. In an interview with an EA developer who was asked why he put in the long hours at work, he said something to the effect of yeah it sucks, but this game is my baby. Back on topic, with the mods and *hopefully* future patches SH5 will be awesome.

[krashkart]

I forgot: welcome to Subsim. :salute: I am one of those who won't go along with the Ubi protection scheme, but it's not the ultimate spoiler of my day, either. A failed coffee filter at 3AM? That's a day ruinator in my book. I honestly do hope that SH5 pulls through, and would really like to see what kind of stellar alchemy the modders will have up their sleeves for this one.

[Sailor Steve]

I just don't understand protesting things like DRM by not buying the game. Yeah it is annoying and almost insulting to honest people who bought the game. I just think not buying it and outright saying you won't buy it makes it seem like a financial loss to Ubi which in turn makes them question why they should even support it.
My problem is that I'm extremely poor, and when push comes to shove the first thing to go is my internet connection. Right now I have a good connection, but I consider it bullying by UBI to tell me I can't play the game all the time. Many others have gaming computers they keep separate from the internet just to decrease the risk of contamination. Others still have mentioned playing SH3 and SH4 on planes and buses while they travel, or owning cabins or hidaways where there is no internet.

Basically it's the principle of the thing. I'm not protesting to UBI, and I'm not trying to hurt UBI. I just won't be dictated to about playing what is essentially an offline game but being forced to be online while I play it. If they never free up the DRM I'm going to be the loser, but in the end the bottom line for me is that it's wrong and I won't support it. It's that simple.

[Ducimus]

Regarding the DRM.

I reinstalled the game this morning. Installed a few mods, which meant i had to exit and restart the game a few times.

The DRM stalled and failed to produce a login like 5 freaking times, so i had to kill the program and restart it.

And yes, i have a decent internet connection.

[Karasunx]

Regarding the DRM.

I reinstalled the game this morning. Installed a few mods, which meant i had to exit and restart the game a few times.

The DRM stalled and failed to produce a login like 5 freaking times, so i had to kill the program and restart it.

And yes, i have a decent internet connection.

Okay, that sounds like a pain in the arse. I've been playing with a mostly vanilla copy of the game and haven't had many issues aside from when my internet provider hiccups.
I do agree that it's a stupid idea to have an offline game need an internet connection. I guess I'm just more forgiving of what I need to go through to get my u-boat fix...which probably means I'm an addict :cry:

[Jimbuna]

I know I haven't posted much and so what I have to say doesn't carry the merit or weight as someone with 1000+ posts, but...I really enjoy SH5 and think it's great for what it is. The game does have its issues but after the patches there's been less I've come across that makes it a bad gaming experience. I appreciate what the developers have done in trying for not only a submarine simulation but also an immersive submarine experience. In SH2 I was blown away with being able to stand on the bridge of my u-boat and sail a 3 dimensional sea. Now I can walk around the entire submarine and talk with my crew (albeit in tiny, one dimensional conversations) but it still is one step closer to feeling like I'm actual commanding a submarine in the Atlantic. I mean to have a game company that strives to provide as best a game they can for such a niche market is admirable. I think people have been too harsh on a game that's only going to get better, we just have to support it. Anyways, I apologize for that becoming a rant, but I like the product I purchased.

Everyone here should be treated equitably.

NONE OF US IS AS CLEVER AS ALL OF US http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[tonschk]

I just won't be dictated to about playing what is essentially an offline game but being forced to be online while I play it

.

Probably the SH3 online multiplayer crowd can actually have a bit different opinion about DRM

.

[Faamecanic]

My problem is that I'm extremely poor, and when push comes to shove the first thing to go is my internet connection. Right now I have a good connection, but I consider it bullying by UBI to tell me I can't play the game all the time. Many others have gaming computers they keep separate from the internet just to decrease the risk of contamination. Others still have mentioned playing SH3 and SH4 on planes and buses while they travel, or owning cabins or hidaways where there is no internet.

Basically it's the principle of the thing. I'm not protesting to UBI, and I'm not trying to hurt UBI. I just won't be dictated to about playing what is essentially an offline game but being forced to be online while I play it. If they never free up the DRM I'm going to be the loser, but in the end the bottom line for me is that it's wrong and I won't support it. It's that simple.

Not to mention there are still PLENTY of places in the USA that STILL do not have broadband internet access.

I lived in one place that DID have broadband, but it was so crappy (the ISP overloaded a 200 home/unit node with over 800 units/homes) I couldnt even get the cable modem to sync between the times of 3pm - 3am. And this went on for 2 years.

[Placoderm]

Probably the SH3 online multiplayer crowd can actually have a bit different opinion about DRM

.


The difference, Tonschk, is that they have the CHOICE of whether to be online or not...as well as the CHOICE of where and when they wish to play singleplayer or multiplayer.

But perhaps you already knew that little detail...

:cool:

[Sailor Steve]

Probably the SH3 online multiplayer crowd can actually have a bit different opinion about DRM

.
Absolutely. But nobody says they can't play it.

[Ducimus]

Well, i have to say, i have been giving SH5 the ole "college try".

Running just these mods, as i feel they addressed most of the games shortcomings from a functionality standpoint.

NewUIs_TDC_2_9_1_ByTheDarkWraith
MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 Stock faces
U-boat Historical Specifications 1.4
U-Boat Killer AI mod v1.02

(edit: side note: they also produce no file conflicts and work harmoniously together)

And overall the game seems to play well, and i have to say that DarkWraith deserves some major kudos for his UI work. It's very well thought out, and it made the game VERY accessible.

So, i did the tutorial mission, and embarked on my first patrol. Ran accross a task force..well.. more like they ran accross me north of the british isles. I drived thinking it was a HK group (yea yeah i know.. in 39?) Turns out they were escorting a BB. So, i took a whack at it from a range of 3000 meters with a 4 fish salvo, and sank him.

Going great right! Im pretty happy. Well, i spend all day getting out of the area. Nisgesis done his search patterns well was my thought. As it turns out, an old bug re emerged. The shadowing tin cans. TWO of them. No matter what i did they always trailed me. That, just straight out killed the game for me as quick as a gunshot to the head.

Bottom line, aside from DRM issues, the biggest drawback in the game i can see now, is the "Follow you tell the ends of the earth Tin cans." Im not sure that can be fixed by mod, but i don't think i'll play Sh5 again until that issue goes away, it REALLY kills it IMO.

Other then that though, i really enjoyed it.

[Madox58]

Nice point Ducimus.

I was working on the AI type-14 and had the Undine AI Sub in the test Mission.

Also a German unit sailing by.
The Undine shadowed me and totally ignored the German ship!!
It passed within 300 meters of us!

The Undine was surfaced and moved out of the ships way.
:nope:

Seems alot of work on the AI Scripting needs done.

[Hitman]

But isn't the AI editable? I mean, even if it takes lot of work, it can modded and such bugs eliminated, right?

[Madox58]

Yes it is editable.
The scripting needs looked at much like TDW is doing the UI stuff.

But there is also unfinished AI Scripting stuff that may need a new patch.
Did you know that Q-Ships were to be included?
But the programmers never finished the Code.
That's in the files not made up!

[Nisgeis]

I thought the shadowing DDs was a problem with SH5, I never had it is SH3/4. Have you got any idea how to get the problem to show up? I've only ever seen it once and unless I can reproduce the error, I can't debug it. Do you know how to induce it?

[Madox58]

I think I have the final test mission without the Type-14.
I removed it to see if that was the problem.
The Undine still shadowed me and ignored the Ship.
The Undine also fired torps at nothing!
I was behind it, the Ship was to the right over 5000 meters away!
:o
If you want this mission, I'll post a link.

[Ducimus]

I thought the shadowing DDs was a problem with SH5, I never had it is SH3/4. Have you got any idea how to get the problem to show up? I've only ever seen it once and unless I can reproduce the error, I can't debug it. Do you know how to induce it?

yes, shadowing DD's is a problem with SH5. WHen i said, "old bug" i meant old bug with SH5, one that i encountered before.

I am not sure how to enduce, it seems random. But, if i were to make a guess, i think its unfinsihed or buggy wolfpack coding. The shadowing DD acts like a Uboat shadowing a convoy. Always maintaining contact, but staying at a distance. It makes me think that somehow, some wolfpack coding is being applied to the wrong object for whatever reason.

For example, if i head directly away from them at flank speed, they will maintain roughly the same amount of distance from me. If i do a 90 degree turn, that would close the range between me and them and put me in a very vulnerable position, one that a DD would normaly take full advantage of. Not in this instance, he will continue to maintain a distance from me, even though he could easily run me down if he wanted to.

[Madox58]

As the Ships and the AI Subs have different scripts?
It's a clue to where the problem may be.

[Ducimus]

Well, im told that saving and reloading will fix the shadowing DD. I'll try that tonight when i get home from work and see if that works. If it does, im back in business of sinking ships, if not i guess im starting a new game in dragon age origins. :rotfl2:

[kylania]

Well, im told that saving and reloading will fix the shadowing DD. I'll try that tonight when i get home from work and see if that works. If it does, im back in business of sinking ships, if not i guess im starting a new game in dragon age origins. :rotfl2:

It does fix it, but it's far more fun to take this new found total control over the destroyer and make it run aground! :DL:O:

[Madox58]

The AI Type XIV we've been working on goes out for testing very soon.
:)

It's got alot of work to be finished yet.
But by releaseing to testers?
It will help speed things in many areas up and show that things can be done.
:rock: