We shouldnt just be complacent...

[Salvadoreno]

Ive been playing SH5 heavily modded lately and have enjoying the game. But really... Its just ridiculous to have a Uboat game with all the essentials and musts completely left out. And it seems the community is just fine with that. We SHOULDNT be... I still want to say again that i DO enjoy SH5. It has the POTENTIAL to be a good game, but **** guys it shouldnt need POTIENTIAL....

I started thinking lately and its bothering me now, so im just venting...

Im not going to go over what has already been said, cuzz we all know what the game is lacking. I will mention some things that NEED to be in a subsim game..

Obviously wolfpacks... :nope: no... I just cannot believe we can play a German WWII uboat game without wolfpacks.. How did this slip past UBI...


More interactive BdU. From 1940-1943 it would just be so.. SO AMAZING if i leave for my patrol area (gridded square) and suddenly have a radio report from BdU OR another uboat reporting a convoi.. B-Dienst could report of a slow konvoi (SC-###) from Halifax to (insert British Port here) and we could plot intercepts.
Our boat could be sailing to our grid square and BdU could give us a report of a wolfpack forming to attack and that we need to join in! GOD this would fulfill my wildest dreams! I have completed all the things i want to in LIFE, BUT NOT THIS! (kidding)
There could be orders to shadow a konvoi until more uboats arrive.. Then as you sit there you see ships throw up fireballs and u know the battle has begun...
Refueling at sea, actually watching the process (and ability for TC) and being on edge about air raids...

There is just so SO much that NEEDS to be added to a WWII Uboat sim, how can only a FEW of these features be in SH5...

How about playing the lesser known operations?

U-Tankers for one. U-Flaks, Milk Cows.. Mine Layers.. (all could be special missions or you could eeven make careers out of them from 1941-1944)

Special Requests for experienced Captians (different and upgraded boats, NOT a stupid renown system)... Special assignments given to succesful uboat captians (inserting commandoes, channel dashes, support operations, port raiding, bombing of oil fields in America/Carribean)

There is only so much a modder can do, but it shouldnt have to be so heavily reliant on modders. It should be a well polished and great game that could be made AMAZING

[kylania]

Wolfpacks are in. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1121062387/m/8381081568)

[Lister471]

Maybe its just me i dont know, but you will never get a game that you like 100%, now in my eyes what they have done is give us a frame, and they have then provided the tools needed to help us if we want to that is biuld the walls add the windows ect.

Why should it be upto us to add the walls and windows, well thats down to each individual and if that person wants to invest the time, into creating mods for others, or wants to use mods ect.

Now i am not defending Ubi but i dont think they did a bad job.

I think SH5 is ok its not great, i have some mods and its made it better and more fun for me, but i love the fact that it is possible to basically change what ever you want if you know how that is and want to learn.

I have always liked games that give you tools, i think they help increase the lifespan of the game, and also they help to form wonderful communities like this one.

[SteelViking]

Well said Lister471:up:

[Salvadoreno]

I understand that no game is 100% but there are certain games out there that are of high quality. I do like SH5, but im just saddened to know how much is left out. Even little things that make a game great, perhaps sometimes your uboat's diesel engine goes out, or your boat is put into drydock. Of course if this is to realistic u can turn these options off... Modders are the greatest thing that could have ever happen to gaming. BUT they do have limitations and the game has hardcoded progamming that cannot be changed. I am very excited to see in what direction modders take us, but i wish the features were already there, so the modders have even BETTER tools to work with!

::edit:: Kylania though that is interesting. It didnt seem that promising or eeven realistic. Now i hate to be a stickler, but surfacing in the middle of the konvoi in decent visibility? Well im sure modders will do wonders IF that lil scenario wasnt created by the poster.

[kylania]

Modders are the greatest thing that could have ever happen to gaming. BUT they do have limitations and the game has hardcoded progamming that cannot be changed.

That's true for SH3 and SH4, but so far TheDarkWraith has proven time and time again that hard coded issues pose no problem now that modders have the power of IronPython scripting to rely on.

While SH5 seemingly has been completely abandoned by Ubisoft (c'mon Dan, prove me wrong!) it's still only a few months old and getting discouraged because every pet feature you want isn't in game is incredibly premature.

Don't get sad that features aren't in game or that the game didn't ship complete or anything like that. Just make lists of what you want to see and start working on it! :DL

[jwilliams]

Wolfpacks are in. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1121062387/m/8381081568)

OMG!!!!! That's great news....:yeah:
I knew Ubi said they were in.... I thought they where bugged or something?

Now ima have to try a few convoy shadows with reports to BDU.... I wanna see the Wolfpacks in action.:rock:

[Salvadoreno]

Don't get sad that features aren't in game or that the game didn't ship complete or anything like that. Just make lists of what you want to see and start working on it! :DL

hehe ill have to leave that up to the modders :P. I am no computer whiz..

All true.. Cant have every detail.. But i havent gotten the pleasure of spotting ONE detail! :(. I woulda been stoked with a band sending me off.. But guess not... yet

[Zedi]

wrong topic

[jwilliams]

So yeah, sadly there is no working wolfpack in the game, it's just an ilusion :(

Well.... they are in, there just not working as intended, or as we would like them to work.

Maybe they can be modded to work?:ping:

[Sgtmonkeynads]

Something modded to work ?
That would be a fix.
This is the ONLY game I actively play where the company that produced it relies solely on the players to fix obvious problems with the game.

Sometimes I just sit there and wonder why I even play SH5 anymore, then a British fighter flies over, it does not attack, I get pissed and shut the game off. I did that months ago, only recently playin again after patching and modding the game further, but to no avail. No wolf packs, no enemy to attack you from air, no reason to sink ships except to "get to the next level" since renown is worthless due to lack of anything worth haveing.
WHY GET FLAK GUNS? To make a point to my self, I uninstalled all the Flak guns on my ship and went for a cruise without them. I sailed all the way around Britain, only diving when enemy war ships were around. Half this game is eyecandy, the other half is 1/4 modds and 1/4 stuff that doesn't work at all, but was prommised by ubisuck to be ingame or fixed at some point.


Bye Guys Im DONE>

[kylania]

So use Wamphyri's Plane Mod. Planes will attack you now. Or just quit as you seem to be looking for an excuse to do that. :shifty:

Mods fix 90% of what's wrong with the game. If you're still focusing on the remaining 10% (or not using mods since you have a warped idea that Ubisoft should have shipped a fully modded simulator), then quit. Seriously, you'll never be happy.

[IanC]

(or not using mods since you have a warped idea that Ubisoft should have shipped a fully modded simulator)

I think what most of us expected was a finished game from Ubi, not a fully modded one. But I know, it's crazy to expect things like the gramophone to work out of the box...
Sgtmonkeynads makes sense, without mods SH5 is unplayable, and that just ain't right.

[Zedi]

Is not really true, the stock game is playable, but is just very boring without mods... is not much fun in it. Sink/refit... that's all.

[IanC]

Is not really true, the stock game is playable, but is just very boring without mods... is not much fun in it. Sink/refit... that's all.

Then we have different views on the word playable. Just with the AI aircraft problems or the 'ships don't slow down when damaged' bug, I know I couldn't play it. Not as a serious subsim anyways.
And I only named two bugs... :haha:

[algernon]

Regarding wolfpacks. Would other boats join if one found an inbound (juicy) convoy out beyond the Rockall Banks and just stayed in contact, re-transmitting? Has anyone tried?

With SH3 it was possible to make contact reports - especially on the Murmansk convoys - and the Luftwaffe would make an appearance. Different a/c types would show up and attack.

Think I'll give it a go. An inbound convoy as far out as possible, and stay with it. Might be a bit of a chore but we'll see.

With regard to the OP; There IS so much potential in this theater, I agree. Also, it is obvious this program was left unfinished. The lighthouses and cranes don't work, no starshells etc. But the engine is there and I have faith...

{Hmmm just read another post on wolfpacks. They show up but don't join in - they get pounded only. Parallels with my ex gir - never mind.]

And where are my beloved Flower Corvettes?

[mookiemookie]

It's all a moot point now, as there's not going to be a SH6.

[Salvadoreno]

No SH6 and thats whats even worse! Whose going to make another atlantic subsim to include some/all the features that i mentioned in OP. Those features are what make the Atlantic war and Uboat War, and all are left out!!! I cant believe some try to defend the game when its clearly unacceptable to ship a game in this state and leave it to the modders.. The patches did nothing, modders did!

Well unfortunately this is going to turn into another SH5 slam, but i sincerely hope modders can turn this into another Sh3 NYGM or Grey Wolves but with MORE features..

[-Pv-]

Perhaps Grey Wolves will be the game with the features everyone wants, but it takes a large group of talented people to put their shoulders behind it.
-Pv-

[commandosolo2009]

Wolfpacks are in. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1121062387/m/8381081568)


Goddamit, Kylania :damn: It's a fallacy..:down:

[jwilliams]

I think what most of us expected was a finished game from Ubi, not a fully modded one. But I know, it's crazy to expect things like the gramophone to work out of the box...
Sgtmonkeynads makes sense, without mods SH5 is unplayable, and that just ain't right.


It is what it is. Complaining about it wont change it.

You can continue to complain about it and hate the game.

Or take SH5 for what it is (an unfinished product), add mods and enjoy the game.

Mods will get better and this game will be finished with time.

[clayton]

Ive been playing SH5 heavily modded lately and have enjoying the game. But really... Its just ridiculous to have a Uboat game with all the essentials and musts completely left out. And it seems the community is just fine with that. We SHOULDNT be... I still want to say again that i DO enjoy SH5. It has the POTENTIAL to be a good game, but **** guys it shouldnt need POTIENTIAL....

I started thinking lately and its bothering me now, so im just venting...

Im not going to go over what has already been said, cuzz we all know what the game is lacking. I will mention some things that NEED to be in a subsim game..

Obviously wolfpacks... :nope: no... I just cannot believe we can play a German WWII uboat game without wolfpacks.. How did this slip past UBI...


More interactive BdU. From 1940-1943 it would just be so.. SO AMAZING if i leave for my patrol area (gridded square) and suddenly have a radio report from BdU OR another uboat reporting a convoi.. B-Dienst could report of a slow konvoi (SC-###) from Halifax to (insert British Port here) and we could plot intercepts.
Our boat could be sailing to our grid square and BdU could give us a report of a wolfpack forming to attack and that we need to join in! GOD this would fulfill my wildest dreams! I have completed all the things i want to in LIFE, BUT NOT THIS! (kidding)
There could be orders to shadow a konvoi until more uboats arrive.. Then as you sit there you see ships throw up fireballs and u know the battle has begun...
Refueling at sea, actually watching the process (and ability for TC) and being on edge about air raids...

There is just so SO much that NEEDS to be added to a WWII Uboat sim, how can only a FEW of these features be in SH5...

How about playing the lesser known operations?

U-Tankers for one. U-Flaks, Milk Cows.. Mine Layers.. (all could be special missions or you could eeven make careers out of them from 1941-1944)

Special Requests for experienced Captians (different and upgraded boats, NOT a stupid renown system)... Special assignments given to succesful uboat captians (inserting commandoes, channel dashes, support operations, port raiding, bombing of oil fields in America/Carribean)

There is only so much a modder can do, but it shouldnt have to be so heavily reliant on modders. It should be a well polished and great game that could be made AMAZING

It's called Aces of the Deep...

Classic!

[IanC]

It is what it is. Complaining about it wont change it.


Bending over and accepting it will change things even less.

[SteelViking]

It is what it is. Complaining about it wont change it.

You can continue to complain about it and hate the game.

Or take SH5 for what it is (an unfinished product), add mods and enjoy the game.

Mods will get better and this game will be finished with time.

I agree with you jwilliams, complaining will do nothing (unless you take it to the extreme and protest in front of Ubisoft headquarters or something). I know that SH5 has some serious problems, that is why I have started doing mod work.

Bending over and accepting it will change things even less.

I for one, share jwilliams point of view, and I am not doing any bending over. In fact, I am standing up like a man, accepting what was handed me, and working to make it better. So, what jwilliams was saying was not that anyone should just give up and live with something deficient, he was saying "make the best you can out of what you have." Now, if you can find a problem with that logic, have at it.

[IanC]

I for one, share jwilliams point of view, and I am not doing any bending over. In fact, I am standing up like a man, accepting what was handed me, and working to make it better. So, what jwilliams was saying was not that anyone should just give up and live with something deficient, he was saying "make the best you can out of what you have." Now, if you can find a problem with that logic, have at it.

I'm not going to start arguing about SH5, I'll let the horrendous state of the game speak for itself.
But I will add one thing, let's not be shortsighted here. This is not even about SH5 or mods or "doing the best with what you have". You see, complaining is also called consumer negative feedback, and it's to make sure we don't get another unfinished subsim in the future, either from Ubisoft or others.
If you need me to explain more, let me know.

[Nisgeis]

It is what it is. Complaining about it wont change it.

Bending over and accepting it will change things even less.

How can it change things even less than not changing them at all?

[robbo180265]

I'm not going to start arguing about SH5, I'll let the horrendous state of the game speak for itself.
But I will add one thing, let's not be shortsighted here. This is not even about SH5 or mods or "doing the best with what you have". You see, complaining is also called consumer negative feedback, and it's to make sure we don't get another unfinished subsim in the future, either from Ubisoft or others.
If you need me to explain more, let me know.

I assume that you contacted Ubisoft and told them exactly how you feel about the "horrendous" state of the game?

Or are you like a lot of the other negative posters in this forum - preferring to do nothing and expecting Ubisoft to have some sort of psychic link to your brain?

I own the game , play the game and have written to Ubisoft explaining their short-comings (IMO)

[IanC]

C'mon robbo, you don't need to actually contact Ubisoft HQ for them to know about the feedback. :lol:
But I'm glad you did write them, I might just do that myself. :up:

[robbo180265]

C'mon robbo, you don't need to actually contact Ubisoft HQ for them to know about the feedback. :lol:
But I'm glad you did write them, I might just do that myself. :up:

Good man:up: - you should , otherwise they will have no idea of the real reasons you are unhappy with them.

[mookiemookie]

I'm not going to start arguing about SH5, I'll let the horrendous state of the game speak for itself.
But I will add one thing, let's not be shortsighted here. This is not even about SH5 or mods or "doing the best with what you have". You see, complaining is also called consumer negative feedback, and it's to make sure we don't get another unfinished subsim in the future, either from Ubisoft or others.
If you need me to explain more, let me know.

I would like you to explain more. There's been very vocal criticism of the last 2 or 3 iterations of the SH series, and it hasn't done a bit of difference.

[SteelViking]

I'm not going to start arguing about SH5, I'll let the horrendous state of the game speak for itself.
But I will add one thing, let's not be shortsighted here. This is not even about SH5 or mods or "doing the best with what you have". You see, complaining is also called consumer negative feedback, and it's to make sure we don't get another unfinished subsim in the future, either from Ubisoft or others.
If you need me to explain more, let me know.

I am not disagreeing with you that SH5 is in bad shape.....Everyone should admit that. I am saying that actions speak louder than words. If you don't like it, actually do something about it, officially complaining about it directly to Ubisoft would be a good start. Just complaining about it, and not doing anything real, is only counterproductive.

Also, the shortsightedness that is coming into play is people not either realizing or admitting that with enough work, from modders or dev's patches, SH5 will become a great game. It won't be perfect, and it will not fulfill every single person's every desire, but in my opinion it will be better than all past subsims(if we actually DO things to make it better).

I respect everyones opinion, but when people are accused of something like "bending over and taking it" I have to say something. If you would like me to explain why accusation such as this are wrong, let me know.

[Takeda Shingen]

I am impressed with the low level of 'snippyness', as it were. Looks like we are on our way back to normal. Frankly, I gave this thread a relatively short shelf life. You proved me wrong.

BZ everyone.

The Management

[Méo]

btw, I'm encouraging companies to produce high quality electric cars.

Yep, I'm just not buying any of those cars. :DL

[mookiemookie]

btw, I'm encouraging companies to produce high quality electric cars.

Yep, I'm just not buying any of those cars. :DL

I think sales figures speak louder to game companies than anything that could be said on an internet forum.

[Brag]

To get Ubi´s attention one must do NOTHING. Don´t buy the needs to be online monstrousity. Do nothing, nothing, nothing :D yeah, nothing :har:

[IanC]

I would like you to explain more. There's been very vocal criticism of the last 2 or 3 iterations of the SH series, and it hasn't done a bit of difference.

Unfortunately mookie, you're 100% correct. Which just adds to the frustration.


Also, the shortsightedness that is coming into play is people not either realizing or admitting that with enough work, from modders or dev's patches, SH5 will become a great game. It won't be perfect, and it will not fulfill every single person's every desire, but in my opinion it will be better than all past subsims(if we actually DO things to make it better).


But who's not admitting that with mods and patches SH5 might not one day be great? Goshh, I go down on my knees and thank all the modders out there, ever since SH2.
That's all I'm waiting/hoping for, is one day maybe a super-mod for SH5 so I can finally play this sucker (that and no DRM).

Btw this is why the complaining is done in the SH5 forum, not the SH5 mods section. If any complaining is done in the mods section, then I think those guys are seriously out of place.

The only worrying part now (for me) is the lack of quality patches from Ubi. Only they can fix the hard codded bugs.
But like I said before, this isn't about how good SH5 can be in the future thanks to mods. This is about the slap in the face from Ubisoft when they released an unfinished game, at full price.

[robbo180265]

The only worrying part now (for me) is the lack of quality patches from Ubi. Only they can fix the hard codded bugs.
But like I said before, this isn't about how good SH5 can be in the future thanks to mods. This is about the slap in the face from Ubisoft when they released an unfinished game, at full price.

You know - I couldn't agree with you more matey. A little while ago I trawled through pretty much all the games for sale on Amazon , looking for something different to play. As soon as the Ubisoft name came up so did the complaints (via player reviews) and this was long before the DRM business. Buggy unfinished games seem to be the norm for Ubisoft, hell there was even a WW2 flying game that couldn't be played with a joystick for Pete's sake.

I will say one thing though - I was able to buy SH5 at pretty much half price within a few weeks and I believe you can buy it at a quarter of the full price now - so maybe worth the risk for some.

[jdkbph]

I think sales figures speak louder to game companies than anything that could be said on an internet forum.

They would if the sales numbers were properly interpreted. But that's the rub, isn't it?

How much easier for them to attribute the cause of poor sales to lack of interest in the subject matter, than to recognize and admit that the product itself is substandard?

Looking at this from a corporate employee's perspective - and this would include the lowliest coder on up through operational management - if your performance evaluation was bound to the success of SH5, wouldn't you find a way to argue the former?

JD

[robbo180265]

They would if the sales numbers were properly interpreted. But that's the rub, isn't it?

How much easier for them to attribute the cause of poor sales to lack of interest in the subject matter, than to recognize and admit that the product itself is substandard?

Looking at this from a corporate employee's perspective - and this would include the lowliest coder on up through operational management - if your performance evaluation was bound to the success of SH5, wouldn't you find a way to argue the former?

JD


Which is why a few of us have been saying over and over again how important it is to contact Ubisoft and let them know why you are not buying the game if you are boycotting it..

[IanC]

Buggy unfinished games seem to be the norm for Ubisoft, hell there was even a WW2 flying game that couldn't be played with a joystick for Pete's sake.


:o :damn: :lol:

[Fincuan]

there was even a WW2 flying game that couldn't be played with a joystick for Pete's sake.

Kind of like a singleplayer game that can't be played without internet connection eh?

Oh wait... :D

[SteelViking]

Unfortunately mookie, you're 100% correct. Which just adds to the frustration.



But who's not admitting that with mods and patches SH5 might not one day be great? Goshh, I go down on my knees and thank all the modders out there, ever since SH2.
That's all I'm waiting/hoping for, is one day maybe a super-mod for SH5 so I can finally play this sucker (that and no DRM).

Btw this is why the complaining is done in the SH5 forum, not the SH5 mods section. If any complaining is done in the mods section, then I think those guys are seriously out of place.

The only worrying part now (for me) is the lack of quality patches from Ubi. Only they can fix the hard codded bugs.
But like I said before, this isn't about how good SH5 can be in the future thanks to mods. This is about the slap in the face from Ubisoft when they released an unfinished game, at full price.

I agree with you on all accounts here, well said comrade.:up:

[Lord Justice]

I am impressed with the low level of 'snippyness', as it were.

The ManagementI should advise, and upon better footing, one has returned. I have thought it out proper, and in some measure prepaired my mind. Having felt obliged to prematurely withdraw and abandon my previous post. This was due to 4-5 members carrying out a most timely, cordinated verbal attack on my position herein, of which may i say was launched from two separate threads!! :nope:
I made no doubt this was unprovoked, and ill mannered, but having seconded a thunderous volley (response) i was very dubious to their success. :yep: However ragged and undisciplined they were :doh: on the account of it all, left me a trifle bothered, asking oneself some rather gloomy questions. To some Snippyness just stray musket balls, wolfpacks mere ordanance, to many most unwarranted. ;)

[Madox58]

To the OP,
The Milk Cows are a work in progress.
There is a Type 14 nearly completed now that dat files work.
And the scripting is done for them also.
We need to finish a few upgrades as far as animation work
and Normals/Occlusions and FX things.
But it is out there being done.

It's far to early to say Modders are being complacent.
Some of the hardest work/learning is being done.

You just don't see it yet.
We have had only a few months to get things going.
It's sometimes like starting over again.
Files are different, things need to be done different, old Tools need replaced or updated.
And a million other things need to be done before you see major
steps that allow the things you want.

It's called time.
We need more of it to push things where they can go.

There are so many things going on in the background that are
not talked about openly here at SubSim at this time, that you'd be amazed!

Don't give up hope at this time.

[soldat32]

Its amazing to me to see so many people that stood against Ubisoft in the beginning and have now caved in and bought this junk.Many used the "I got it for my birthday" excuse,come on your not fooling anyone.:haha:All that tells the developers is to go ahead and keep releasing inferior products because the community will still buy it regardless.The only way to put them back on track is to not buy,damage their checkbook and they will listen.

I am happy to say that until Ubi reverts back to a better and more complete product with no online save feature,I will not be buying.

[Madox58]

I didn't buy it.
I used a gift certificate to get it.
Had I not had the Gift?
I would not have bought it at full price.
But I would have bought it sooner or later.

And if your "I got it for my birthday" line is calling me a liar?
I am not amused.
:stare:

[Salvadoreno]

I also bought at quarter price from amazon.

At privateer

O i know there are modders out there hard at work making something amazing.

It was said best before in this thread, but products like these should not be put out, its unfortunate it even got out.

I just imagine how good this game could have been. Being extremely knowledgeable on the subject turns me into a harsh critic i suppose. But like i said before.. Little things make great games amazing.

Malfunctions
BdU
etc.. bla bla (dont need to say it again)

Im sure 90% of the features i mentioned will probably be implemented. But would it be great if it came out the box!? :nope: Guess i cant expect that all the time.

[Madox58]

You, I, and thousands of others have vented more then once.

It all comes to nothing. And I've a feeling it will always come to nothing.
I see more frustration from so many people, in so many areas, that even I get worried at times.

I can not list all the people I do talk with.
But the list goes way deep in areas.
And the feeling I get is not good.

That does not mean I'll give up.
It just means I'll try harder in more areas.
Find more contacts to bother.

The Fat Lady has not Sung yet!

[jwilliams]

Bending over and accepting it will change things even less.


I'm not bending over, I will not be buying another Ubi product without knowing the game is finished to a high standard.

But what im saying is, time for complaining about SH5 should end, it is what it is. Complaining will not get the game finished. Ubi, by the looks of it has abandoned SH5. Only sales will possibly change Ubi's view and bring the capital to pay for the game to be patched.

Lets make the most out of what is an unfinished product and finish it. Because it truly can be the best SH game.