Playing with the Narwhal is tough

[Bubblehead1980]

Started a career with TMO in December 1941 out of Pearl Harbor in the Narwhal.

First patrol was to the Marshals and on December found a lone Nagara Maru merchant, made a textbook attack and after 8 torpedos(4 prematurely detonated and one dud) fired the ship caught fire, burned for 10 minutes then exploded and sank.After a month in the Marshalls, moved towards Truk to hunt in the Japan-Truk shipping lanes and began encountering patrol planes.

The slow dive time of the Narwhal is a real liability.Were they slow divers in real life? Finally a pair of zeros nailed me as i passed 70 feet on crash dive, blew the side of my sub off with direct hit, 100 damage, all over.:damn:

[Admiral8Q]

Started a career with TMO in December 1941 out of Pearl Harbor in the Narwhal.

First patrol was to the Marshals and on December found a lone Nagara Maru merchant, made a textbook attack and after 8 torpedos(4 prematurely detonated and one dud) fired the ship caught fire, burned for 10 minutes then exploded and sank.After a month in the Marshalls, moved towards Truk to hunt in the Japan-Truk shipping lanes and began encountering patrol planes.
Should have saved your torpedoes and used the duel 6 inchers! :03: Remember that you're a submarine cruiser now. It takes a different strategy. I'd take the mark 10's anyways. More reliable. Maybe a few mark 14's in case you need the range. But ALWAYS turn that damn magnetic exploder off!!!

The slow dive time of the Narwhal is a real liability.Were they slow divers in real life? Finally a pair of zeros nailed me as i passed 70 feet on crash dive, blew the side of my sub off with direct hit, 100 damage, all over.:damn:
Yes, it is a problem, and historical. It may be better to stay submerged durring the daytime, OR when you order crash dive, man the aa guns and do some fancy maneuvering.:salute:

8Q

[Armistead]

What's the dive time? Can't be much worse than the S boat, barely have time to get under even when you hit crash dive when they come up on radar...

Been back playing with contacts and cams off and ran into a small TF near Java during the invasion, sunk one Kuma, no shots on the others. Dang hard tracking without radar.

On the way back to refit at Darwin I ran into a large TF about 300 nms west of Darwin. I think that must be the carrier foray out into the Indian ocean that heads for Christmas Island as it's the right time. Never saw any capital ships, but had them on sonar. Several DD's finally ran me down so I left, couldn't catch it anyway.

[Bubblehead1980]

Should have saved your torpedoes and used the duel 6 inchers! :03: Remember that you're a submarine cruiser now. It takes a different strategy. I'd take the mark 10's anyways. More reliable. Maybe a few mark 14's in case you need the range. But ALWAYS turn that damn magnetic exploder off!!!

Yes, it is a problem, and historical. It may be better to stay submerged durring the daytime, OR when you order crash dive, man the aa guns and do some fancy maneuvering.:salute:

8Q

Well the thing is I try to play as historically accurate as possible, makes the game more challenging.Mark 10's were only used a few times in fleetboats and part of the challenge of early war is having torpedos that do not work most of the time, most did not just turn off the magnetic detonator since they were under orders not to but when they did then they had dud issues.Also, in RL they couldnt simply flip a switch to choose like in game.

I did adopt the pre war and early war doctrine of patroling submerged during daylight like I do when I play early war careers.Thing is I was not in my area yet I was in transit and usually dont dive when in transit except for planes.The Zeros on ASW patrol just show up too fast, patrol planes I can usually get under quick enough but the zeros(which i hope future TMO removes zeros on asw patrol, just bc zeros were not used as dedicated ASW planes)

May try another career with the Narwhal and just stay under more and use the twin deck guns more.

[Bubblehead1980]

What's the dive time? Can't be much worse than the S boat, barely have time to get under even when you hit crash dive when they come up on radar...

Been back playing with contacts and cams off and ran into a small TF near Java during the invasion, sunk one Kuma, no shots on the others. Dang hard tracking without radar.

On the way back to refit at Darwin I ran into a large TF about 300 nms west of Darwin. I think that must be the carrier foray out into the Indian ocean that heads for Christmas Island as it's the right time. Never saw any capital ships, but had them on sonar. Several DD's finally ran me down so I left, couldn't catch it anyway.


I did not time the dive but its well over a minute i believe and the boat doesnt handle so great underwater, no real steep dive angles at flank speed like the fleetboats.Wish you could bombard shore targets, would be cool to do so with the twin deck guns.

[Admiral8Q]

Bubblehead, if you read a lot about the submariners of WW2 in the Pacific, you will find that many disobeyed those orders and had the magnetic exploders disconnected anyways.

THAT is historical.

Take the Mk 14's if you want, but remember that the Narwhal was old at the beginning of the war. Slow, un-maneuverable. But it did have cruiser guns!

[Rockin Robbins]

Yes the Narwhal didn't belong in combat. It's guns were not appropriate for a submarine, where one hit on the sub was death and 100 hits on a target usually wouldn't sink it. Not only did she dive very slowly, but underwater maneuvering was sluggish as well. Evasion was not really a literal term. You were dependent on your enemy making large mistakes if you were to remain alive in the Narwhal.

It would best have been used for shore bombardment, running supplies and covert missions. As far as a hunter/killer mode, forget it. Unescorted, unarmed targets only need apply. Supersubs they weren't.

[Jan Kyster]

52 seconds! That's what she needed for a crashdrive! Official record, btw. :yeah:

From the book "Unrestricted Warfare":

Argonaut (Narwhal class, ed.) dove slowly and clumsily, hindered by two large deck guns and lack of a negative tank for quick flooding. The large planing surfaces made it hard to drive her under when heading into the sea or with the swells abeam. This made for faster but horribly sideways dives. While patrolling off Midway she recorded dive times longer than 2.5 minutes.
Longer than 2 minutes and 30 seconds! :stare:

... but then!
On December 8 [1941] she was attacked by U.S. Marine aircraft while on the surface charging batteries. Usually a slow diver, the crew got her under in fifty-two seconds - a record.


I would say a couple of Zeros would have the same effect! :rock:


Source: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1324708&postcount=660

[Admiral8Q]

I was stuck in shallow waters once with the Narwhal and a destroyer and sub chaser came after me. I surfaced and fought it out on the surface. Blew the crap out of them but took enough damage that I had to return to port.

In my Gato the Drum, that I'm playing now, I had to deck gun a sub chaser and later on a gunboat on the surface because the torpedoes couldn't hit them because of their shallow keels and the waves at the time.

The Narwhal is fun at the beginnig of the war, but becomes obsolete when the Gato's are available.

[Bubblehead1980]

Bubblehead, if you read a lot about the submariners of WW2 in the Pacific, you will find that many disobeyed those orders and had the magnetic exploders disconnected anyways.

THAT is historical.

Take the Mk 14's if you want, but remember that the Narwhal was old at the beginning of the war. Slow, un-maneuverable. But it did have cruiser guns!


I have read plenty and yes some skippers did chance it and deactivate the magnetics against standing orders but it was not common practice to really consider it, thus the reason prematures continued to foul up patrols.Around May of 43 the order from Admiral Lockwood finally came down to deactivate the magnetic exploder and they did, then duds became the big problem until new firing pins were made for the contact exploders.Subs based out of Fremantle were ordered to keep using the magnetic exploder because the Admiral in charge there, Admiral Ralph Christie had been involved in the development of the exploder and still believed in it or was just saving face.

[Admiral8Q]

Well Bubblehead, if after my patrol in an S-boat and having my Mark 10's work, then when I get the Mark 14's and they get all screwy on a patrol in my new boat, I'd demand Mark 10's! Plus they were in surplus.

[Bubblehead1980]

I agree but there was not that big of a surplus, a few fleetboats made patrols in 42 with Mark 10's.To me part of the fun of playing early war is having to work around the faulty torpedos whther is be premature exploders, deep runners or duds, but to each his own.Mark 14's didnt work with S boats anyway, they were too long for the torpedo tubes.For some reason in the game they can be used.Mark 10's are decent though.

[Admiral8Q]

:haha::har:
No worries Bub, can I call you that? As I play I get more and more realistic.

[Diopos]

...To me part of the fun of playing early war is having to work around the faulty torpedos whther is be premature exploders, deep runners or duds, but to each his own...

Boy ... we are a weird bunch after all! :hmmm::lurk:


.

[Chubster]

Im in a sargo at the start of the war and have an "agreement" with the ordinance supply officer at every port to load out the crappy Mk14 with Mk10's each time I visit.

Only costs me a crate of whisky each time :DL

[Nisgeis]

The real mark 10s were all worn out after 20 years of having their gyro angles set in drills, so the gyro spindle would frequently bind, by the time they'd been cleared, the target had steamed merrily away oblivious.

[magic452]

Nisgeis Interesting fact there thank heavens it's not modeled into the game, we have enough problems as is.

Magic