More "GWX ettiquette" questions -- Prize Regulations

[nemchenk]

Right :D So, sorry to keep asking these silly questions, but I'm kinda new to the whole sub thing :D and I'm curious as to how the "more serious" sim/RP players play SHIII. I mean, I enjoy the sim aspect, but am also very interested in the history and RP...


So, IIRC prior to Unrestricted Sub Warfare, the procedure was to surface and order the merchant to surrender, wait for the crew to abandon ship, then sink her either with weapons or by scuttling her.

I had been under the impression that this would not be possible in GWX SHIII, since I assume an enemy merchant would try to evade or ram you as soon as you surfaced, and would be unlikely to surrender! :hmmm: So when I spotted my first Polish Med Cargo, I promptly shadowed her and put two eels in her side when I got into position. Down she went, and after a few more hours patrolling I spotted a Passanger/Cargo flying the Polish merchant ensign. An eel in her bows and she goes down after a couple of hours in rough seas.

So far so good. Then I get this from GWX OKM:
From: OKM
To: All U-boats
1939/09/03
U-boat warfare against shipping is to be carried out in accordance with international law. Attacks are to be aimed at the following ships which may be sunk without warning:

1.Troop ships, ie. vessels which are observed to be carrying troops or war material or which may be indentified in other ways.
2. Any vessels escorted by enemy warships or aircraft.
3. Vessels taking part in enemy actions or acting in direct support of enemy operations.

Internation law governing the conduct of naval warfare is included in the battle orders for the German Navy. Orders enjoin the strict observance of all rules of neutrality issued by individual countries and observance of the general agreements of international Law. Operations against shipping are to be governed by the revised edition of Prize Regulations. Observance of Prize Regulations is only obligatory for unarmed ships.So, did I just break the Prize Regs twice :oops: Or do they mean by this earlier message that the Prize Regs do not apply to Polish merchantmen:
From: OKM
To: All U-boats
Overt military actions have commenced against Poland. All Polish vessels are to be considered hostile and valid targets that may be attacked at the commander's discretion. Vessels of other nations are to be considered neutral and are not to be attacked.Thanks for your advice in advance! :DL

[TarJak]

As the Kaleun on the scene the decision to sink a ship is yours. How you report the sinking to BdU is up to you as well.

Sink 'em all!:arrgh!:

[Jimbuna]

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Wreford-Brown]

Deny everything, then report them as sunk on your next patrol.

[Kapt Z]

Unless it's a neutral, hospital ship or a ship of the Axis powers.....

Send them to the bottom!!:up:

[STEED]

Neutrals with no light on, tough luck.

USA neutral zone sweeps across half the Atlantic by Sept 41, US warships are fair game and tough luck to Oilers. :arrgh!: We are at war with them, all but in name until Dec41.

I have been know to to use neutrals as target practice, shoot up there cargo! OK, I leave the ships a little singed but hey, there still can sail.

Face facts the world hates are smart uniforms, even the Japanese are not that keen on us. Get out there and sink them, who cares, its war. :arrgh!:

[nemchenk]

I get the distinct feeling there is a gung-ho attitude amongst some of the Kaleuns... :D

[STEED]

I get the distinct feeling there is a gung-ho attitude amongst some of the Kaleuns... :D

Germany is not the flavour of the month, we are a miss understood nation. ;)

[Sailor Steve]

Like most of the messages, that one is there mainly for immersion. That said, I consider it fun to try to follow them - no passenger ships, no French shipping until notified, no warships, then only warships. It must have been confusing for them at that early stage, and I like to pretend I'm also confused (not hard in my case).

As for stopping and boarding, the game doesn't allow that, so I surface next to them (but not too close in case they're armed) and cruise with them for awhile, then sink them. And take a screenshot so I can say "See? I'm stopping this ship and checking his papers before I sink him."

It's all part of the fun for me, and none of it is required.

[nemchenk]

If only I could understand what OKM are trying to tell me, Sailor Steve :hmmm: Those message seems to first state that all Polish vessels can be engaged at the discretion of the Kaleun, but then later OKM starts talking about the Prize Regs... As you say, it was very confusing for the Kriegsmarine skippers in the early days of the war!

Re cruising with the merchantman -- will he not start weaving and trying to evade? I had to chase down a Tramp Steamer who was running flat out, and it was quite tricky to get alongside him and fire on him with my 20mm Flak :88) He kept weaving, trying to ram me while I was getting alongside. How on earth would you hit a target like that with an eel??

[maillemaker]

If they zig-zag or sail at night in the dark, they die.

Steve

[frau kaleun]

If only I could understand what OKM are trying to tell me, Sailor Steve :hmmm: Those message seems to first state that all Polish vessels can be engaged at the discretion of the Kaleun, but then later OKM starts talking about the Prize Regs... As you say, it was very confusing for the Kriegsmarine skippers in the early days of the war!

Re cruising with the merchantman -- will he not start weaving and trying to evade? I had to chase down a Tramp Steamer who was running flat out, and it was quite tricky to get alongside him and fire on him with my 20mm Flak :88) He kept weaving, trying to ram me while I was getting alongside. How on earth would you hit a target like that with an eel??

If you're going to fire a torpedo, best to do it before they know you're in the vicinity. If you surface close enough to a target to be spotted they will begin evasive maneuvers making it very difficult to line up a good shot. And if they turn out to be armed they will start firing on you.

Best bet during daylight is to run fast enough on the surface to get ahead of them on a roughly parallel course to theirs, but staying far enough away to keep from being spotted. When you get far enough ahead of them you can turn in towards their projected path and, if it's still daylight, go to periscope depth and move towards an intercept point that will put you within range of a torpedo attack without them spotting you as they also approach the intercept point.

If it's nightime you may be able to turn in and approach on the surface without being spotted - heavy weather will also help in this respect. Either way, you need to get within attack range before they know you're there otherwise the jig is up.

I have on occasion had a merchant spot me and begin zigzagging, and I just submerged and shadowed them until they stopped doing that and then turned in and fired. Of course if the ship is moving too fast for you to shadow at max submerged speed, that doesn't work.

[Sailor Steve]

I just point and shoot from a very close range. Even with them weaving it's hard to miss from 500 meters.

Of course WE Assistance helps.:rotfl2: oops I mean :oops:.

[HW3]

The second message is referring to other countries ships, not Poland's. Since neutral nations ships did sail to waring nations ports, if they met any of the 3 conditions stated in the second message, they would then be subject to attack. You are already at war with Poland, so all ships flying Poland's flag are considered hostile, and subject to attack.

[Sailor Steve]

True, but prize regulation also insist that where possible the ship be stopped and the crew allowed to abandon ship before it is sunk.

[frau kaleun]

True, but prize regulation also insist that where possible the ship be stopped and the crew allowed to abandon ship before it is sunk.

Oh, I stop them all right.

Okay, sometimes the first torpedo only slows them down, but still. Eventually they do stop.

[Jimbuna]

Pirates!! http://www.clubpenguinfansite.com/forums/images/smilies/Pirate/111.gif

[Sailor Steve]

Oh, I stop them all right.

Okay, sometimes the first torpedo only slows them down, but still. Eventually they do stop.
And you allow them to abandon ship if they're lucky enough to survive the attack?

[Jimbuna]

It's the Penelope wig that does it I tells ya :03:

[frau kaleun]

And you allow them to abandon ship if they're lucky enough to survive the attack?

I have orders to sink ships where I find them. Ask the men who started this war about the rest. :O:

[STEED]

KILL THEM...KILL THEM ALL. :arrgh!:

[PappyCain]

Don't listen to the above reprobates. Disable the vessel with a shot to the screw and rudder. Then if they do not have an armed guard aboard (be careful!) board the vessel and pillage their refer (immersion calls for me to raid my refer for a turkey leg, or a roast beef on rye with horseradish). Only after a good refer raid do you move off and sink em'.

(In the early years, I do not look to kill unarmed merchant seaman who are non-combatants. That will change when theere ships are armed and in escorted convoys and can do harm to my boat and crew. Try to play by history as it really unfolded, you will enjoy the sim better than arcade style.)

:salute:

[Jimbuna]

KILL THEM...KILL THEM ALL. :arrgh!:

LOL :DL

[STEED]

Look...we are at war! Theres no time for this namby pandering lets go by the book and follow all the rules because I'm a wimpy wimp loser.

Set sail and kill every damn last one of them, and burn the rule book as well.

Your in the Kriegsmarine now! Not the bloody axillary womens balloon core.

:arrgh!::arrgh!::arrgh!::arrgh!::arrgh!::rock:

[frau kaleun]

Your in the Kriegsmarine now! Not the bloody axillary womens balloon core


For some reason that reminded me of this, which is awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMqSmiC_xHg

[Jimbuna]

You didn't keep your dress clear of mud for long STEED :haha:

[Sailor Steve]

You didn't keep your dress clear of mud for long STEED :haha:
It's okay. Humor him. I traced his IP to his local psych ward. We have to keep him happy or he might hurt himself.:D

[Jimbuna]

It's okay. Humor him. I traced his IP to his local psych ward. We have to keep him happy or he might hurt himself.:D


Ah....Okay :DL

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FebFCfbHpfM/R6UfYCyZJnI/AAAAAAAAAG4/Rv3p9pMCFBE/s400/crazy_man_straight_jacket_lg_wht.gif

[STEED]

The whole Human race is barking mad and living on the biggest loony bin in the galaxy called earth. :rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:


Right....Sink every damn last one of them.

[naval_noob]

If the South Koreans can't prove it now with the whole Chenoan thing who is gonna say that it was German torpedo that sank that cruise ship....

[nemchenk]

Right -- thanks for all your posts, Kaleuns! I've restarted my career with the decision to only ever patrol what BdU tells me to in an effort to make the playthrough more real :yeah: I'll let you know how it goes!

[Jimbuna]

SINK EM ALL!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif