Questions for getting back to SH5

[Itkovian]

Salutations.

Due to having one U-boat dream too many (seriously, I was going through Kiel *grin*), I've decided to go back to SH5 (at least until July, when the Battle of Britain begins anew *grin*).

I got the sim at release and was impressed with the usual things (including leisurely going down Kiel Kanal *grin*), but decided to wait for a patch due to the crew morale bug (while rather gamey, I like the idea but hated losing all that after a reload). Now that this seems to be fixed, I have a few questions before jumping back in.

1- Has the proper use of the Stadimeter been clarified/identified since release? I could never figure out how to use it properly.

I believe it involved sighting to the waterline and then bringing the black line to some point at the top of the target, but I could never figure out where exactly. Top of the funnel? Top of the bridge? Top of highest mast? All of these seemed to give different results based on the target.

Some help would be appreciated. :)

2- I understand that many mods have been released, as usual in the SH world. Which ones would you recommend as "basic" mods all players should use?

3- I know most mods are installed using JSME, which I've used before but just want to confirm how to use it:

Basically you just copy the JSME exe to the root of the game folder, executed it to have the MODS folder created, and then I just unzip the various mods to the MODS folder, and then run the JSME exe to enable the mods, correct?

4- How is patch 1.2 best installed? I've read some posts saying that the autoinstaller isn't working right. Is it best to manually download the patch file, or does just starting up the game work?

5- Last, but not least: I'm looking for a good gramophone and/or radio mod. Any suggestions? :)

Thank you.

Itkovian

[kylania]

1- Has the proper use of the Stadimeter been clarified/identified since release? I could never figure out how to use it properly.

Nope, still broken. However it has been fixed in TheDarkWraith's NewUI + TDC (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166093) mod.

2- I understand that many mods have been released, as usual in the SH world. Which ones would you recommend as "basic" mods all players should use?

There's quite a few. These mods (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1121062387/m/4861016168?r=3311046168#3311046168) are the ones I personally prefer.

3- I know most mods are installed using JSME, which I've used before but just want to confirm how to use it:

I've posted instructions (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1309434&postcount=2) for how to install JSGME and install a mod with it. I've also posted a video for installing (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1121062387/m/1501050268) TDW NewUI + TDC which is a little complicated.

4- How is patch 1.2 best installed? I've read some posts saying that the autoinstaller isn't working right. Is it best to manually download the patch file, or does just starting up the game work?

It should auto-update when you start the game. If not there are other methods (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1121062387/m/8371057958?r=7191057958#7191057958) for getting the patch.

5- Last, but not least: I'm looking for a good gramophone and/or radio mod. Any suggestions? :)

Yup, here's both (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1121062387/m/2101093268?r=9141014268#9141014268).

[Itkovian]

Nope, still broken. However it has been fixed in TheDarkWraith's NewUI + TDC (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166093) mod.



Thank you!

However, a question: how has the Stadimeter been fixed in that mod? I was looking at it, and while it improves the TDC I don't see where it fixes the stadi.

Though from what I understand, the stadi does work, but its just that you need to align to different points depending on the ship for it to work (the mast, the bridge, the elbow of the crewmen standing on the bow, etc.) Does that mod then tell us where to align the stadi?

Thank you.

Itkovian

[kylania]

The problem with the standimeter is that it thinks ALL mast heights are 20m. So that's why it sometimes works depending on where you measure from, as long as the point is 20m up, you'll get a proper reading.

TheDarkWraith fixed it programatically. What happens behind the scenes is that it reads where your install directory is, compares the locked target's name to the names.cfg file, then takes the ship type given by that and reads the proper mast height from the ship's config files. You as a player only see "Mast Height: 28.4" or whatever, and the standimeter "just works". Measure from the top of the mast and tada!

[Itkovian]

The problem with the standimeter is that it thinks ALL mast heights are 20m. So that's why it sometimes works depending on where you measure from, as long as the point is 20m up, you'll get a proper reading.

TheDarkWraith fixed it programatically. What happens behind the scenes is that it reads where your install directory is, compares the locked target's name to the names.cfg file, then takes the ship type given by that and reads the proper mast height from the ship's config files. You as a player only see "Mast Height: 28.4" or whatever, and the standimeter "just works". Measure from the top of the mast and tada!

Oh awesome! Excellent!

Maybe I can even play without map updates then. :)

Itkovian

[Itkovian]

Hum, I notice that the UI mod (installed, working well) also enables the gramophone (or maybe it already was).

Does that mean that I can install that gramophone mode (that adds more tunes) without problem? I am curious, as it is a mod from the SHIII forums.

Thank you.

Itkovian

[kylania]

Yeah, it works just the same. Dump the files in the folder and they'll play.

[Itkovian]

Excellent, I will install both the gramophone and radio mods.

Hum, does the radio mod requires special key bindings to switch stations or something, or can that be done using the radio UI?

Itkovian

[kylania]

Pretty sure it's controlled by the little radio UI element itself.

[Itkovian]

I have another question:

Is there a way to invert the mouse Y axis? Most games have this option, but not SH5 and it's driving me crazy. :)

Itkovian

[kylania]

I've never seen anyone say they managed to do that.

[Itkovian]

*sigh*

One can hope, though.

[Itkovian]

Some more questions. :)

I finally started my campaign and made my way to the east coast of england for the "coastal waters" mission. After some prowling around and evading a few destroyers, I approached the Firth of Forth and just now made contact with a convoy headed eastwards.

I am in perfect position to move in and lie silently for them to pass at close range, and so I am using the occasion as something of a training ground :).

Now I already made one attempt (albeit a not very scientific one), and fully 3 of my 5 torpedoes detonated prematurely (1 hit, the other missed).

Therefore, my questions are:

1- How do I prevent premature detonation? Is that a problem with the magnetic pistol detonators? Should I rely on explosion on contact instead?

2- What method of attack do you prefer to use when faced with a convoy in perfect formation?

What I mean is: it is simple to get a decent solution on a single convoy member (my first torp hit, after all), but how then do you proceed to fire torpedoes at other members of the convoy? Can you obtain several solutions at once? Or do you simply "eyeball it" using the first solution as reference, knowing the rest of the convoy is on the same heading and speed (so you simply need to adjust the range)?

Of course, once I'm done I'll have to evade the destroyers, and my batteries relatively low after diving away from enemy aircraft, so it should be interesting as well. But I simply can't accept not sinking two of those transports, it is such a perfect opportunity. :)

Thank you.

Itkovian

[kylania]

1- How do I prevent premature detonation? Is that a problem with the magnetic pistol detonators? Should I rely on explosion on contact instead?

Slow down your rate of fire really. The game will let you shoot pretty quickly, but you won't want to. Fire.. pause.. pause.. Fire! Will work better than Fire, Fire, Fire! There seems to be a lot of problems with mag triggers right now, even beyond the historical problems they had, so impact shots below the waterline are a safe bet. Try for the Engine Room (just under the stacks) for shots that'll slow a ship down.



2- What method of attack do you prefer to use when faced with a convoy in perfect formation? This post shows (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1393165&postcount=38) my setup and TDC settings for a convoy attack. Basically set the TDC for one ship, and they'll all be the same settings. The only "gotcha" about the attack is if you're attacking 3-4 ships at once using steam torpedoes the first ones you shoot might be seen by the other ships and that'll trigger them to start zigzagging messing up all your shots.

Of course, once I'm done I'll have to evade the destroyers, and my batteries relatively low after diving away from enemy aircraft, so it should be interesting as well. But I simply can't accept not sinking two of those transports, it is such a perfect opportunity.

To evade the destroyers, once you've fired submerge to around 100m or so (if you have the room!) and head into then turn to exit behind the convoy. You'll be harder to hear if you're under all those screws and hopefully explosions.

Also your batteries should never be low. :) When a plane starts it's attack run, speed up to flank and order a crash dive. As soon as you've dropped below the surface turn hard to port or starboard. As soon as you're 20m down or so, slow down to 1-3kts (Ahead 1/3 or so). That way you're under the surface, on a different course than the planes saw you on, but you're not burning your batteries by remaining at flank speed. As soon as you can't hear any more attack sounds above, raise to periscope depth, check the skies with the Obs scope, and surface if it's clear. Your batteries should recharge quickly.

While on battery power try to not go faster than the first two speeds if you can to save battery power.

[Itkovian]

Slow down your rate of fire really. The game will let you shoot pretty quickly, but you won't want to. Fire.. pause.. pause.. Fire! Will work better than Fire, Fire, Fire! There seems to be a lot of problems with mag triggers right now, even beyond the historical problems they had, so impact shots below the waterline are a safe bet. Try for the Engine Room (just under the stacks) for shots that'll slow a ship down.


This post shows (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1393165&postcount=38) my setup and TDC settings for a convoy attack. Basically set the TDC for one ship, and they'll all be the same settings. The only "gotcha" about the attack is if you're attacking 3-4 ships at once using steam torpedoes the first ones you shoot might be seen by the other ships and that'll trigger them to start zigzagging messing up all your shots.


I read that post, and there is something in that procedure I find strange: Why would the range not matter? You say it "cancels out" why? Obviously if you're shooting at the 3rd rank you need to "lead" your target more than if you're shooting the 1st rank. How come that does not matter using your method?


To evade the destroyers, once you've fired submerge to around 100m or so (if you have the room!) and head into then turn to exit behind the convoy. You'll be harder to hear if you're under all those screws and hopefully explosions.

Also your batteries should never be low. :) When a plane starts it's attack run, speed up to flank and order a crash dive. As soon as you've dropped below the surface turn hard to port or starboard. As soon as you're 20m down or so, slow down to 1-3kts (Ahead 1/3 or so). That way you're under the surface, on a different course than the planes saw you on, but you're not burning your batteries by remaining at flank speed. As soon as you can't hear any more attack sounds above, raise to periscope depth, check the skies with the Obs scope, and surface if it's clear. Your batteries should recharge quickly.

While on battery power try to not go faster than the first two speeds if you can to save battery power.

Well, my batteries are low because for quite a long time there were constantly airplanes in the air (I was sailing by an aerodrome, for one thing), so I sailed on while submerged.

As for sailing towards the back of the convoy, I'm not sure how wise that would be right now, as that would take me deeper in the Firth, likely crawling with escorts, and then I'd have to limp out for a while before I could surface.

I'll see how it goes, I am definitely using this opportunity as practice, though. Made a save game right before contact, and will probably be reloading it a few times to get the hang of things. :)

Itkovian

[kylania]

I read that post, and there is something in that procedure I find strange: Why would the range not matter? You say it "cancels out" why? Obviously if you're shooting at the 3rd rank you need to "lead" your target more than if you're shooting the 1st rank. How come that does not matter using your method?

Range cancels out since you're built in the lead by the gyroangle. See this image here to visualize when to shoot and how the torpedoes will move. Red lines are the ships moving, green is the "lead angle" you've turned your scope to face as indicated by a 000 gyroangle reading, orange are your torpedoes and the blue line is the torpedo path.

You just set your scope and leave it there and fire as ships pass your wire. Farthest target first.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/Silent%20Hunter%204/Manual%20TDC%20Range/OKanemethodanimation.gif



Well, my batteries are low because for quite a long time there were constantly airplanes in the air (I was sailing by an aerodrome, for one thing), so I sailed on while submerged.Yeah, you should slow down to slow though. You won't make as much time and distance, but you'll be more effective. Stay under for an hour or two, then surface again. If planes are really bad, just stay under till dark and recharge your batteries over night on the surface. This won't work so well in later war with radar, but for now it'll be good.


As for sailing towards the back of the convoy, I'm not sure how wise that would be right now, as that would take me deeper in the Firth, likely crawling with escorts, and then I'd have to limp out for a while before I could surface. I just mean "exit" the convoy. When I get to work I'll post a pic with what i mean. :)

[Itkovian]

Aaaah, I see. Drawing does help.

However, how did you know that 10 degrees is the angle needed? From what I understand you simply turn it until you reach 0 gyroangle, but how come 0 gyroangle gives you the exact lead needed?

I assume that's "calibrated" by the TDC or some such? Does that lead change based on target speed and torpedo speed?

So, for example, if the target was moving faster, it would require less degrees to move peri to 0 gyroangle (and, conversely, more degrees if the torpedo speed is lower)?

A pre-requesite is to have your boat's bow pointing perpendicular to the convoy's path, correct? That's why gyroangle 0 is the angle you need to point for?

From what I can tell, this would make this method the best way to attack a convoy moving in ordered formation like this, whereas more traditional techniques (relying on range and not having to point the boat in the right direction) are more useful for less "structured" scenarios?

Thank you.

Itkovian

[kylania]

The lead angle was set by the gyroangle, which used the target speed to determine the amount of angle. The faster the target the more the lead. For something like 5-8kts around a 10 degree angle would be good, if your target is traveling 10-12kts something more like 15-20 degrees would be better.

Torpedo speed is tricky. All the torpedo speed upgrades you get from skills and abilities are not included in the TDC calculations by the game, so I strongly suggest not training them, or use a mod that neutralizes them.

This type of attack above is something called the "Dick O'Kane" method, adapted from the US Fleet Boats he captained. The 000 gyroangle just means that the torpedoes are travelling straight ahead and will hit at a 90 degree angle, all preset.

The TDC is powerful enough so that you don't always have to do this kind attack. As long as you've entered in all the information correctly, you can hit from lots of different attack vectors. Just the other night I was on a parallel course with my target, behind him to his right by about 2000m. I put in all the info into the TDC and fired a torpedo.

It raced a head, then curved towards the target's course. Direct hit! I'd aimed at the funnel, and it hit just a bit behind there, but still took out the propellers. Finished him off with the deck gun.

You're correct, this is a pretty good way of attacking a convoy you've gotten in front of. But other angle attacks can be just as effective, if not as easy to setup.

[Itkovian]

I see, I understand now that the Gyro-angle is the angle for the torpedo, makes sense.

But then, let me see i I understand correctly: in order to actually get a solution (with visual contact of course), the only data the TDC actually needs to calculate the lead-angle needed is the target speed, AOB, and the torpedo speed (I already have that mod, yes), and of course your own heading and speed (which I assume is already known by the TDC)?

So in reality, the target range is not useful for actually hitting, except for plotting the contact and obtaining target speed?

This is when I wish I remembered my geometry. :)

Itkovian

[Itkovian]

The TDC is powerful enough so that you don't always have to do this kind attack. As long as you've entered in all the information correctly, you can hit from lots of different attack vectors. Just the other night I was on a parallel course with my target, behind him to his right by about 2000m. I put in all the info into the TDC and fired a torpedo.

It raced a head, then curved towards the target's course. Direct hit! I'd aimed at the funnel, and it hit just a bit behind there, but still took out the propellers. Finished him off with the deck gun.


I tried using your method last night, and got wildly differing results. I'm talking even if I was just to hit a single ship (not even the whole "hitting the whole line at once"). I've read your instructions, and must be missing an important point.

I think the problem is part of the sequence, where you need to "lock in" the values. Is there a step where you need to point the peri in a specific direction before entering in the data and then locking it in (hitting the green button, turning it red).

Maybe it would help better if you were to explain the procedure you used to perform waht you did in what I quoted above?

Unless... do you mean you got that kill using the TDC normally (locking the target, entering the data, firing)? Because I must admit that of all my attempts last night, the only time I got consistently accurate hits was when I used the TDC normally (locking, getting range, etc.)

Anyway, thank you for the help.

Itkovian

[kylania]

For the fast 90 attack, once I know their speed and course I get into position.

Then basically you don't even need to lock any ships, just point your scope to 000 and set the 90 degree AoB, enter their speed, set range to whatever your farthest target will be just so you can see the yellow line then "lock" the TDC (click the green button so that it's red and you can't adjust the values anymore). Then turn the scope till it's reading 000 on the gyroangle and wait for ships to cross your wire.

It's probably the pointing to 000 before setting that AoB that was causing problems.

The other night I was in a heavy fog, probably only about 150-200m visibility. I caught sight of a ship's shape ahead of me. I estimated it's range at 300, estimated the speed at 10kts just by how far the initial contact was and where we were now and a rough estimate of AoB. Fired blind into the storm and a minute later heard "torpedo impact!" and faintly saw the fire through the fog! Of course the next two times I tried this I missed horribly! heh Never fight in fog, just shadow and wait till you can actually see your targets. heh

[MattDizzle]

Personally i dont bother with this method and just prefer to just attack 1 or 2 ships at a time. Better stick 4 fish into 2 ships than 4 fish into 4 ships in my opinion. Dont waste time with kill shots later on and keep contact with the convoy. I've trailed a convoy for 5 days off the coast of africa before just putting torp after torp into it, and watching the tracers off the horizon during the day as the italian airplanes (vectored in by me) take out the escorts or damage them enough to make them slow down and drop away from the convoy. and approaching for a surface attack at night.

Full real dead is dead 530,000 tons in july 1941 :D same game i made the day i bought the game on launch day

[Itkovian]

Aaah, I see. So this technique only works on those 90 degree attacks then. I had misread one of your prior comments.

Itkovian

[raymond6751]

I'm guessing that you folks got the 'gold' European version of the game?
I just checked my N.American manual and found NOTHING about using TDC at all.

I guess they thought we were too primitive to use it?

[rulez_Cz]

*I've decided to go back to SH5 (at least until July, when the Battle of Britain begins anew *grin*).*

How is Battle of Britain going to begin ? Anything I should know ?:06:

[robbo180265]

*I've decided to go back to SH5 (at least until July, when the Battle of Britain begins anew *grin*).*

How is Battle of Britain going to begin ? Anything I should know ?:06:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121746

No definite date yet AFAIK. Can't wait for this to be released either:yeah:

[Itkovian]

There are several attempts to "relive" the Battle of Britain this year, in honour of its 70th anniversary.

So, in fact, the battle begins July 10th. :)

Itkovian

[kylania]

I'm guessing that you folks got the 'gold' European version of the game?
I just checked my N.American manual and found NOTHING about using TDC at all.

I guess they thought we were too primitive to use it?

"Gold" SH5 was the American version of Europe's Collector's edition, minus actual physical product, soundtrack or added value of any kind.

Everything I know about TDC has been learned during SH3 and SH4 from tutorials from Paul Wasserman (http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/), WernerSobe (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=118923), Dantenoc (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88961), Rockin' Robbins (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146795) and others. The SH5 manual didn't even mention TDC I think. :)

[jwilliams]

I'm guessing that you folks got the 'gold' European version of the game?
I just checked my N.American manual and found NOTHING about using TDC at all.

I guess they thought we were too primitive to use it?

The manual..... all versions had the same manual..... just with the collectors Edition the manuel was a printed manual. It's the same manual. Its still Worthless!!!!:nope:

[Itkovian]

Aye, I admit the manual is pretty much worthless. That said, now that 1.2 is out, and I've got a few mods in, I absolutely love SH5.

Excellent game, and I love the "sim-as-captain" style. We need more of that in simulators, I say. Imagine a flight sim, for example, where you get to step off your aeroplane and walk off to the Officer's Mess, or to dispersal. I'd pay good money for that. :p

Itkovian

[Itkovian]

That said, thank you for all the help, its been priceless.

For my firing solutions, I now use the standard method, inputting all info in the TDC. And it works rather well, admittedly.

Right now I'm in late december 1939, and am working on Blockade of Germany (need to find that carrier).

I do have some more questions though:

What effect does sending mission reports and contact reports have?
Is there a best time to send either?
For a contact report, must you have a ship targeted, or is just being in proximity to a convoy or task force good enough?

Thank you.

Itkovian