torpedoes vs deck gun

[lordofdoom]

What do you prefer torpedoes or deck gun?

[convoy hunter]

it depends if I am using XXI i cant use deck gun because it hasn't one

[convoy hunter]

if i am using ix or vi i may use deck gun on single merchants or unescorted convoys.

[STEED]

In the early war years I use my deck gun and AA gun on the small fry, I'm not wasting my eels on them.

[Leg]

I use the deck gun to sink small merchant ships or to finish off the ones already hit with a torpedo. But as the war goes on I use it less and less.

[Jimbuna]

If your intent on using the deck gun....better do it early on before the merchants become armed and fight back.

[comet61]

I too use the main deck gun on the smaller ships or small craft such as tugs, sailing boats and even torpedo boats. Sometimes I will opt to fire one eel then use the Deck gun to finish it off. However, during and after late 1942 I usually don't use the deck gun much. Sometimes via SH3 Commander I will omit the deck gun altogether...just have AA only.

[Brag]

I use the deck gun as much as possible in early war. Once the merchies are armed, I get gun shy.:yep:

[Scape]

Gun is great but too often the seas are too choppy to use it. High seas may be an issue to a torp strike but at least you can TRY. Besides, a deck gun on a sub is just silly once the merchants can shoot back. Might as well dump them overboard for all the good they do and the flak can go as well since whenever I even hear a plane is coming I crash dive anyway.

[Zedwardson]

Early war, they are quite useful, but it quickly declines as time goes on, of course, my guys have yet to make it to the later war years, so they all enjoy the deck gun. :salute:

[Jimbuna]

Gun is great but too often the seas are too choppy to use it. High seas may be an issue to a torp strike but at least you can TRY. Besides, a deck gun on a sub is just silly once the merchants can shoot back. Might as well dump them overboard for all the good they do and the flak can go as well since whenever I even hear a plane is coming I crash dive anyway.

Oh I don't know.....it can still be handy for finishing off the wounded straggler that the convoy escorts leave behind...especially handy for conserving those precious eels. :hmmm:

[Iranon]

What advantage did the boats get from the removal of the deck guns? For example, did this affect underwater speed or noise in a meaningful way?

Afaik there is no benefit in-game, making me feel like my candy was taken away from me for no good reason.

[downunder]

I only go for tonnage and leave the smaller stuff alone (waste of ammo) so i use it if a hit ship is taking to long to go down.

[RConch]

I don't think this is an "either\or" issue.
I use what is necessary to to sink the ship.
Granted after 1940, most merchants are armed, so the choice of weapon by me, is dependent on each seperate incident.:yep:

[sharkbit]

What advantage did the boats get from the removal of the deck guns? For example, did this affect underwater speed or noise in a meaningful way?

Afaik there is no benefit in-game, making me feel like my candy was taken away from me for no good reason.

AFAIK there is no advantage in performance. I think some people tried testing it in game but I don't recall anything conclusive.

However, I have removed mine from my Med boat in 1943 for the sole purpose of removing any temptation to try and gun it out with armed merchants. I will probably do the same with my other late war careers as well.
Armed merchants seem too good and I've usually gotten worse than I've given, so the crew unbolted the damn thing. It is now a flower holder in the flotilla chief's front yard. :D

:)

[salamis protector]

i prefer torpedoes because i am not good to aim with the deck gun:ping:

[convoy hunter]

i prefer torpedoes because i am not good to aim with the deck gun:ping:
practise makes better

[pickinthebanjo]

I'm big on the deck gun, usually takes 20-30 rounds though once I sunk a small merchant with one but I was to close and was damaged severly

[ryanglavin]

The only time I usually use my deck gun is on trips to the American Coastline.

I don't want to waste my precious torps that I want to use on merchants, so I use my deck gun on the transit.

[maillemaker]

Here is why you use the deck gun:

http://www.forth-armoury.com/SHIII/wreckage.bmp

But from 1941 onwards they shoot back.

Steve

[firefighter26]

I think I will echo what everyone else says, I usually use the deck gun for lone and unescorted merchants. I get especially annoyed when I line up a target and the torpedo bounces off its side when it was on a damn near perfect line to target.

Before I installed GWX it would take 20-30 rounds to sink a ship. These days, I've picked up what parts of the ship seem to be easier to damage.. well, at least have a bigger explosion when I hit them... explosion = damage in my opinion!

One patrol I was frustrated that my last two torpedoes bounced off the ship that I alternated firing on it with the deck gun and while it was reloading, strafing back and forth across its deck with the AA flak gun. It probably didn't do anything to sink the ship any faster, but it helped easy some of the frustrations (though, I am sure the war crimes tribunal would be looking for me if I had have made it to the end of the war)!

[Falkirion]

I only use the deck gun if my targets crippled by an eel I've put into her or its completely black out and early war. Otherwise its periscope depth to 200m in a couple of minutes to escape the DD pounding headed my way.

[Hook]

I figure you don't get renown for bringing back deck gun rounds, so you might as well use them if you can. You can't use them in bad weather, so you're already limited in what you can do.

Someone once mentioned one U-boat captain that used the deck gun to good effect. I don't remember who it was. It would be nice to read about him.

I prefer to limit deck guns to lone merchants under 3000 tons. However, if I'm low on torpedos and I have 200 deck gun rounds and I'm going to be passing just north of Scapa in good weather on my way home, anything I find there is fair game. As long as it's not shooting back.

As far as I'm concerned, once a convoy has started weaving, it's no longer fair game because they'll scatter in real life. I get one good attack, as many torpedos as I can fire, and I'll return later to pick off stragglers. I don't go head to head with destroyers, as that's a good way to end up exercising the Dead Is Dead rule.

I generally avoid convoys anyway. There are a lot of lone merchants available. Under 3000 tons gets the deck gun. Over that gets a torpedo or two.

Hook

[maillemaker]

Someone once mentioned one U-boat captain that used the deck gun to good effect. I don't remember who it was. It would be nice to read about him.

It was me. I'll try and post more often. :D

Steve

[convoy hunter]

Here is why you use the deck gun:

http://www.forth-armoury.com/SHIII/wreckage.bmp

But from 1941 onwards they shoot back.

Steve
what was the tonnage reading after that?

[frau kaleun]

Someone once mentioned one U-boat captain that used the deck gun to good effect. I don't remember who it was. It would be nice to read about him.

Hardegen seems to have used it a lot during his Paukenschlag patrols, which are covered extensively in Operation Drumbeat.

Wasn't use of the deck gun also a part of Kretschmer's "one ship, one torpedo" thing? For single or unescorted merchants, anyway, that's what I favor early on. Especially in daylight and good weather, if one eel doesn't take them down. I've had a couple run-ins with armed merchants as a result but nothing too serious. Granted I've only gotten as far as spring 1940.

[firefighter26]

Someone once mentioned one U-boat captain that used the deck gun to good effect. I don't remember who it was. It would be nice to read about him.

Ironically, I found this earlier today during my random travels.... Amazing resource, this 'internet' thing....

Vice Admiral Lothar von Arnauld de la Perière (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lothar_von_Arnauld_de_la_Peri%C3%A8re)

(March 18, 1886 – February 24, 1941), born in Posen, was a German U-Boat commander during World War I. With 194 ships and 453,716 gross registered tons (GRT) sunk, he is the most successful submarine ace ever. Нis victories came in the Mediterranean, almost always using his 8.8-cm deck gun. During his career he fired 74 torpedoes, hitting 39 times

[Jimbuna]

Ironically, I found this earlier today during my random travels.... Amazing resource, this 'internet' thing....

Vice Admiral Lothar von Arnauld de la Perière (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lothar_von_Arnauld_de_la_Peri%C3%A8re)

(March 18, 1886 – February 24, 1941), born in Posen, was a German U-Boat commander during World War I. With 194 ships and 453,716 gross registered tons (GRT) sunk, he is the most successful submarine ace ever. Нis victories came in the Mediterranean, almost always using his 8.8-cm deck gun. During his career he fired 74 torpedoes, hitting 39 times


He carried out non of those exploits during WWII though.

[frau kaleun]

Ironically, I found this earlier today during my random travels.... Amazing resource, this 'internet' thing....

Vice Admiral Lothar von Arnauld de la Perière (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lothar_von_Arnauld_de_la_Peri%C3%A8re)

(March 18, 1886 – February 24, 1941), born in Posen, was a German U-Boat commander during World War I. With 194 ships and 453,716 gross registered tons (GRT) sunk, he is the most successful submarine ace ever. Нis victories came in the Mediterranean, almost always using his 8.8-cm deck gun. During his career he fired 74 torpedoes, hitting 39 times

Yep - killed in a plane crash whilst flying into France to take up some KM staff position during WWII. I believe he'd left the service after WWI, I think he was teaching at Turkey's naval academy during the 30s. Don't know if he was called back up or returned to Germany when war broke out (or before that).

[Hook]

He carried out non of those exploits during WWII though.

In other words, he did all that with a WWI vintage deck gun. :D

Thanks for the great info, everyone.

Hook

[Jimbuna]

At the start of World War II (http://www.subsim.com/wiki/World_War_II) Arnauld de la Perière was again called up for active duty. Until March 1940, he served as naval commandant in Danzig (http://www.subsim.com/wiki/Gda%C5%84sk) until he was sent to the Low Countries as naval commandant for Belgium and the Netherlands. Promoted to rear admiral (http://www.subsim.com/wiki/Rear_admiral), Arnauld de la Perière was made naval commandant in Brittany (http://www.subsim.com/wiki/Brittany) and later for the entire western French seacoast. He was promoted to vice admiral (http://www.subsim.com/wiki/Vice_admiral) on February 1, 1941. Transferred to take up command as Admiral South, he was killed when his plane crashed on take off near Le Bourget Airport (http://www.subsim.com/wiki/Le_Bourget_Airport). He is buried in the Berliner Invalidenfriedhof (http://www.subsim.com/wiki/Invalidenfriedhof).

[firefighter26]

He carried out non of those exploits during WWII though.

I agree, but it is still an amazing accomplishment irregardless of the era.

It, however, could also be argued that the ASW capabilities of most, if not all, of the major ocean going navies were not much more advanced overall at the start of, and in the early stages of, world war II than their world war I counter parts; despite the invention and refinement of so many specific ASW technologies between the wars.

In fact, a large number of the 50 destroyers "traded" to Britain during the "destroyers for bases" agreement, prior to the US entering the war, were constructed during the last part of WWI and the early interwar period. England would go to use the bulk of these destroyers as ASW platforms until better designs were available.

It can also be argued that the rules of war varied from WWI to WWII. Lothar von Arnauld de la Periere was is famous for his "scrupulous adherence to prize rules, allowing crews of enemy merchant ships to board their lifeboats and giving them directions to the nearest port before sinking their ships"; VS unrestricted submarine warfare carried out during the second half of WWII. In fact, one might almost argue that the evolution of ASW technology and tactics forced the combatants into unrestricted warfare.

I would wager that the Admiral's deck gun tactics used during WWI would have been just as efficient during the early states of WWII until the technology and industrial weight leveraged them into obsolescence.

[frau kaleun]

I agree, but it is still an amazing accomplishment irregardless of the era.

I think it's even more amazing considering the era.

[Sailor Steve]

On the other hand, Arnauld de la Perière was lucky he didn't encounter any Q-Ships in WWI. When they first came out they waited until the u-boat was close enough to board them before opening fire. Bagged a couple of early aces that way.

The also developed them to a fine art during the first war, carrying extra crew who would 'abandon ship', lowering lifeboats and rowing away. When the u-boat approached the 'empty' ship to plant scuttling charges...

BANG!

[Jimbuna]

During WWI in a total of 150 engagements, British Q-ships destroyed 14 U-boats and damaged 60, at a cost of 27 Q-ships lost out of 200. Q-ships were responsible for about 10% of all U-boats sunk, ranking them well below the use of ordinary minefields in effectiveness.

Other methods adapted included the trawler+submarine plan. A trawler put to sea towing one of the older sbmerines, submerged, and connected to it by telephone. If a U-boat surfaced the trawler engaged its attention while the submarine was released for attack.