Just to get this straight..

[Torvald Von Mansee]

You ALWAYS have to prestige pay for your new boat when upgrading? You are never "comped" one due to your extraordinary heroism and tonnage total?

[HW3]

:yep:

[Jimbuna]

I believe many players up they're DeltaRenown to the cost of the new boat to give the impression the Kaleun was issued a new command as later sub types came off the stocks.

[PappyCain]

Quite frankly I would prefer if the sim upgraded my boat (as if it came as a directive from Bdu) based on performance parameters especially in the campaign mode. I do not understand "paying" for it as it to me is an immersion or historical skew as no one had the option to "buy" into a new boat with selectable "options" like a car. Seems silly or arcade like. But hey, that is my opinion. Still the best sim out there! Renown actually refers to earned recognition (points) for job well done not "money" to buy stuff.


:salute:

[desirableroasted]

The renown system would work well if you didn't pay renown points... the idea of getting a new boat but being busted back down a pay grade is absurd.

But I use SH3 Commander, and tweak the .cfg files to ensure a boat costs nothing. However, I do not take a new boat until I have been promoted, received medals, and reached a certain renown.

[fw66]

I actually think that the renown system to gain new boats would be great, if there was one tweak to the cost of each boat.

As boats start coming of the production line, it is sensible that higher ranking captains would gain the first boats. However as more roll out, lower ranking captains would gain the upgrade.

How I would like to see this happening is a reducing cost of each boat as time goes by.

Something like this, based on month of launch: (assumption of 2,500 renown needed)
Month 1-3 - 2,500
Month 4-6 - 2,000
Month 7-9 - 1,500

and so on, until there is only a renown of 500.

This would simulate more boats becoming avaliable to lower ranked players. I would go as far and say this would work on all upgrades and not just on new boats.

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but I thought that this does happen in the game, but only on a yearly basis (though only with boats, not the other upgrades)

[Zedwardson]

The way I look at renown is that it is "political capital"

Lets say I am a Ace II-A captain in the 1st, and I want to upgrade to a VII, the cost of renown is that I call in favors and some of my shine to get a new boat, BdU expects me to keep up the good work or improve my totals. The equipment is basicly me calling in favors, "quartermaster, My new VII needs a 105 deck gun, (as am in the office wearing my Iron Cross with oaks) will get me the gun, but I can only pull that off so many times before it just doesn't work.

[sharkbit]

The way I look at renown is that it is "political capital"

Lets say I am a Ace II-A captain in the 1st, and I want to upgrade to a VII, the cost of renown is that I call in favors and some of my shine to get a new boat, BdU expects me to keep up the good work or improve my totals. The equipment is basicly me calling in favors, "quartermaster, My new VII needs a 105 deck gun, (as am in the office wearing my Iron Cross with oaks) will get me the gun, but I can only pull that off so many times before it just doesn't work.

I generally look at renown that way as well. It's not "money".

From Webster's:

Main Entry: 1re·nown
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈnau̇n\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English renoun, from Anglo-French renum, renoun, from renomer to report, speak of, from re- + nomer to name, from Latin nominare, from nomin-, nomen name — more at name (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/name)
Date: 14th century
1 : a state of being widely acclaimed and highly honored : fame (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fame)


So far, I've never used to upgrade to a new boat type, I've used it more to upgrade weapons and such.

I seem to recall Herbert Werner in "Iron Coffins" searching for and trying to beg, borrow, or steal a schnorkel for his boat. (Ducks and runs for cover at mention of "Iron Coffins"-:O:)
I guess he didn't have enough "renown" at the time.

:)

[Zedwardson]

Just curious, is "Iron Coffins" thought of as a bad book? :06:

[Sailor Steve]

No, it's regarded as a very good book. It does, however, contain quite a few 'exaggerations' by the author. Doesn't make it a bad read, just bad history.

[timmy41]

Renown, from my understanding, is simply a point system to somewhat simulate that the better you do, the more toys you can use. We all know that such is not true in real life, as if they had 20 XXIs available, they wouldnt just send out 5 of them because only 5 captains were prestigious enough to captain one. I think that if you want to play the game in a realistic manner, then you should edit the game so you get a rediculous amount of renown, and youll be able to freely loadout a submarine as it would have been historically.

[lafeeverted]

What file would I have to edit and how?

[Zedwardson]

I just give myself points for getting to my patrol area, and since I have done that it GWX, when I am ready for a new sub, generally I have the points to fit it out. Right now my main guy is at 2000 and change, and after the move the france, will be buying a IX, and he should have enough points to buy one and fit it out. :yep:

Of course, it is kinda funny that everyone thinks that since a new boat came out, that there players should be the first users, even if many commanders where using VIIs deep in the war till they where put on the bottom. ;) (Of course, the main point is to have fun, and by god, when the XXI comes out, I am going to get a pimped out one...)

To edit you some renown, make sure your guy is in port, ready to go out, and go to the save folder, and there is a DeltaRenown in one of the config files, and give you the points you want.

[flag4]

Just curious, is "Iron Coffins" thought of as a bad book? :06:


from the authors own introduction:

"my account of the u boat struggle was written with the aid of notes i took during the war, along with photographs and letters..."

"though i relied heavily on memory..."

+ i think he wrote it over the twenty years after the war. as Sailor Steve says it is - in parts bad history, but a very good read and i think it will remain a classic.

[lafeeverted]

I am re-reading it now

I do not see a delta renown folder/file? In my career save file there is a line that is renown=500.000. Is that the line to change?

[schlechter pfennig]

I'm none too pleased about how the renown system works, either. On the one hand, I agree with picturing using one's renown to 'play politics' and get equipment sooner, or get better equipment, a better U-boat, more productive patrol areas, etc. because you're a successful commander. On the other hand, I strongly dislike my rank tied to renown that goes down when I use said influence, and I dislike as well that I'll never get any upgrades no matter how long they've been out. And I also loathe the fact that, if you 'buy' a special torpedo but don't use it by the time you finish your patrol, you lose it and the spent renown!

I've decided to switch how renown works for me. I hope some wiser heads can help me do the final tweaking here. :)

I've decided to set the renown cost for everything except U-boats to zero. That way my rank --which is based upon renown-- won't be effected. I'm going to keep a scratch pad by my desk, with two columns. The left column will be total renown, while the right one is current.

If I want to upgrade, whatever the 'cost' of that upgrade will be deducted from the right column. As long as there is enough renown to cover the upgrade I can get it.

For example, say at the start of my 5th patrol my total renown is 5,000, and my current is 1,000 (because I've been upgrading). At the end of that patrol my total renown is now 6,500. I'd record 6,500 underneath the 5,000 in the left column. The difference between 6,500 and 5,000 is 1,500, which I'd then add to the right column, now giving me 2,500 renown available as 'influence' to get upgrades.

Where I need help, advice, suggestions, etc is this: I do feel that, as time passes, that the renown cost of things should decrease. Does anyone have ideas as to what would be a reasonable 'depreciation'?

[Sailor Steve]

NYGM does exactly that. They removed the renown requirements and made the wait time for new items be longer. It has a subtitle: "Tonnage War".

[Jimbuna]

I am re-reading it now

I do not see a delta renown folder/file? In my career save file there is a line that is renown=500.000. Is that the line to change?

Go to C:\Documents and Settings\Jim\My Documents\GWX\data\cfg\Careers\Kaleuns name

You will see a CFG named Patrols_0 open it as a text file and the third line from the bottom is DeltaRenown....change that figure to any number you wish.....but only after you have docked at the end of a patrol.

[PappyCain]

I wait until I have accumulated 7K - the Donitz himself sez 'give that man a new boat and whatever he needs!!'

:salute:

[sharkbit]

Just curious, is "Iron Coffins" thought of as a bad book? :06:

Here's a thread in the SH5 forum about it:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=167387&highlight=iron

Not the first thread about the book and won't be the last one either.

A good story(I just re-read it a month ago) but take some things with a grain of salt.

:)

[lafeeverted]

Thanks Jimbuna, I overlooked that section of the file:salute:

I did the like the way NYGM handled renown. If the equipmwnt was available you should be able to have it at no "cost" to you. My question would be, has it been modded or can it be modded so that the upgrades are limited as they were historically. Just because a new and iproved version was made available by time, they were not avaible for everyone. Can they be tied to flotillas that actually recieved them at a certain date ?

I have also wanted to change it so at the beginning of the war you have better trained crews. Do I do that through SH3 commander?

[Jimbuna]

Thanks Jimbuna, I overlooked that section of the file:salute:


Your welcome http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[Hook]

Renown, from my understanding, is simply a point system to somewhat simulate that the better you do, the more toys you can use. We all know that such is not true in real life, as if they had 20 XXIs available, they wouldnt just send out 5 of them because only 5 captains were prestigious enough to captain one.

Usually it's the other way around. There are 20 captains and 5 new submarines. Who gets the upgrade in a case like that? The guy with the most renown.

It's unfortunate that the game didn't make you use renown to buy promotions for yourself, permanently spending the renown points. This would get people's head in the right place about promotions and personal rank.

Of course, it is sometimes possible to take a cut in rank to get some juicy assignment in real life, so maybe the game isn't that far off after all.

Hook

[pickinthebanjo]

Renown is related to promotions to some extent.

[frau kaleun]

Renown is related to promotions to some extent.

Yeah, but only in the sense that the game auto-promotes you once your renown goes above a certain level. However if you then choose to spend some of that renown on upgrades, and it drops you below the amount necessary to hold a certain rank, it demotes you back again.

If instead you could choose to spend x amount of renown on a promotion, you'd have that rank and keep it - but you'd lose however much renown it cost you, and not be able to buy a new boat or upgrades until you went out and accumulated more. Still not perfect since having more renown should IMO allow for both a promotion AND access to mo' better stuff without having to choose between the two... but IMO it's better than being auto-demoted because your renown qualified you for an upgrade on equipment and you chose to take advantage of that.

[Sailor Steve]

Agreed. Promotions should be based on time-in-rank plus a renown-based bonus, and should be permanent and not cost anything.

[schlechter pfennig]

Just curious what people think of my idea. And if you have any suggestions as to a logical time decremation for upgrade costs.

[Zedwardson]

The computer should keep track of your total renown earned, and once you get over X amount, you should get promoted, even if renown in burned obtaining equipment.


The fact is if you want to be realistic, there was shortages all the time in the war, and you would have a dozen commanders and potential XO's for each new U-boat.

[LGN1]

Another annoying aspect of the renown system is that it is independent of the boat you are using. Sinking three ships per patrol in a Type II is very good, but gives you the same renown as sinking three ships in a Type VII.

Starting the war in a Type II and trying to get a VII is quite hard. I guess a commander who did 3-4 successful patrols in a Type II got a Type VII. Assuming that on average you can sink 3 ships with a total of 500 renown per patrol (that's quite hard), you need at least 4 patrols to get a VIIB in GWX (assuming 500 starting renown). So, before you can get a VIIB you have to sink 12 ships. I don't think any commander ever sunk 12 ships in a Type II.

In order to take into account the influence of growing experience, I have re-activated the renown you get for reaching a grid and the objective. Thus, I get some renown just for surviving and the increasing experience.

[fw66]

Another annoying aspect of the renown system is that it is independent of the boat you are using. Sinking three ships per patrol in a Type II is very good, but gives you the same renown as sinking three ships in a Type VII.

Starting the war in a Type II and trying to get a VII is quite hard. I guess a commander who did 3-4 successful patrols in a Type II got a Type VII. Assuming that on average you can sink 3 ships with a total of 500 renown per patrol (that's quite hard), you need at least 4 patrols to get a VIIB in GWX (assuming 500 starting renown). So, before you can get a VIIB you have to sink 12 ships. I don't think any commander ever sunk 12 ships in a Type II.

In order to take into account the influence of growing experience, I have re-activated the renown you get for reaching a grid and the objective. Thus, I get some renown just for surviving and the increasing experience.


You could also complete the 'exams' in training and then you enter the war with much more renown meaning you have to complete fewer successful patrols in a type II.

It seems silly to get this renown just for completing these boring missions, but it makes sense that a commander who was 'top of the class' would be given a more modern boat with longer range, more torpedoes etc ahead of others.

[pickinthebanjo]

Yeah I do'nt like being demoted for spending renown either. Once I attacked gibraltar in a IXB I bought, and I got demoted though I sunk three cruisers

[Hook]

Renown, influence, political capital, calling in favors, brownie points. It's all the same thing.

It's why your brother, who always made straight A's in school and had an after school job never had problems getting the family car, while you made C's and spent all your time modding video games and were on foot. Later your brother is still working retail and hating it while you have a job with a major game company and love it, and you're making more than both your parents and your brother put together.

That in-game promotion and a nickel will buy you a cup of coffee at WW2 rates. If it has any other use than giving you warm fuzzy feelings, I haven't discovered it.

"I can give you command of this new submarine, or I can give you a promotion. Which would you prefer?" The game simply does the promotion automatically.

I figure all promotions in the game are provisional anyway, and aren't finalized by high command until you've got so much renown that you can't lose them.

And if you Really Care about the promotion, why are you using your renown for other things? Wait until you have enough renown to get both the promotion and the upgrade.

Hook

[Sailor Steve]

Well said, Hook. It makes sense that way.:sunny: