View Full Version : Sub on the bottom?
oscar19681
05-12-10, 09:31 AM
when are they gonna fix the freakin 10 meters hover over the bottom when you are trying to let the boat rest on the seabottom?
We need your threads merged into one master thread, your complaints are spamming the forum endlessly... Start one thread called "Oscars complaint corner"... would serve the rest of us quite nicely i think.
Iron Budokan
05-12-10, 02:34 PM
lol
Does that trick even work with SHV? It never did in stock SHIII or SHIV...
oscar19681
05-13-10, 06:24 AM
We need your threads merged into one master thread, your complaints are spamming the forum endlessly... Start one thread called "Oscars complaint corner"... would serve the rest of us quite nicely i think.
Thats not true. I have been positive from the beginning. Its only when they released the patch that barely fixed any of the problems that i start to complain. As a matter a fact i have been more then positive about sh-5 but there are limits ofcourse.
JScones
05-13-10, 06:33 AM
Does that trick even work with SHV? It never did in stock SHIII or SHIV...
What trick? Merging all Oscar's threads into one?
:har:
mookiemookie
05-13-10, 09:52 AM
A real sub captain would not have sat on the bottom. Too much risk of getting stuck in the mud.
convoy hunter
05-13-10, 10:01 AM
What trick? Merging all Oscar's threads into one?
:har:
:har::haha:
SabreHawk
05-13-10, 12:55 PM
A real sub captain would not have sat on the bottom. Too much risk of getting stuck in the mud.
I was about to say something like this. We can do it safely I'd think, but in real life one cannot get a look outside the sub to accuately do this and cannot know what's really under you and what kind of bottom it is be it hard, soft, mud, plant life like seaweed or if there is anything that might damage the hull or anything else.
Seaweed could get into the props for instance, a big rock could damage something, and then there is the fact that the bottom might not be level.
Halface
05-14-10, 02:51 AM
hmmmm i mangaed to set my sub on the bottmon mud throwed up etc....uhmmm
convoy hunter
05-14-10, 07:00 AM
i did get my sub on the bottom but i heard continiusly a banging noise
senjorlossi
05-14-10, 07:40 AM
Well, I have read several times that U-boats have been put onto the sea floor in real live (I´m talking about WW2 subs).
For example, G. Prien "parked" his U-47 outside Scapa Flow to wait for nightfall for his raid. He wrote in his logbook: "East of Scapa Flow on the bottom at 90 meters".
L.G. Buchheim also talked of putting the boat onto the sea floor in one of his books. He describes that the current was dragging the boat over the floor, so that the LI had to put more water into the tanks to make the boat sit properly on the bottom.
One should keep in mind that the condition of the floor is stated on navigation charts (like "rocks", "sand", "mud" etc.), as well as larger obstacles like wrecks and large rocks.
Still, of course, as a commander I would consider very thoroughly the risk of hitting or being entangled into anything that is not mentioned on the chart, being it an unknown wreck, fishing nets or whatever.
But it has been done, at least occasionally.
I was about to say something like this. We can do it safely I'd think, but in real life one cannot get a look outside the sub to accuately do this and cannot know what's really under you and what kind of bottom it is be it hard, soft, mud, plant life like seaweed or if there is anything that might damage the hull or anything else.
Seaweed could get into the props for instance, a big rock could damage something, and then there is the fact that the bottom might not be level.
IIRC I read in a commanders log that he settled his sub on the seafloor waiting for a hydrophone contact. Think it was Hardegen in the beginning of Drumbeat. As soon as I have found the document I will post a link.
Edit: Found it: On page 17 at 17.00 is says he grounded his boat at +25M (http://uboatarchive.net/KTB123-7.htm)
SabreHawk
05-14-10, 09:29 AM
Thanks Wiesia, an interesting read. Yes im sure it was done, but very little due to the risk involved and given the limited info on the seabed at any given location.
I'd think that in the 30's and 40's very little exploration of the sea bottom was done yet, only soundings for the most part. Which can produce depths and contour info but I doubt the type of soil and vegetation could be determined. But I could be wrong.
It certainly has to be risky at any rate, given that one cannot see where one is going and what is directly below other than pinging for depth under the keel.
Something else I've always wondered about was the use of the cable cutter on the bows of the earlier boats and exactly how this is done without getting tangled in a net.
Iron Budokan
05-14-10, 09:50 AM
What trick? Merging all Oscar's threads into one?
:har:
Okay, that made me laugh. :O:
mookiemookie
05-14-10, 09:52 AM
I stand corrected. :salute:
oscar19681
05-14-10, 03:13 PM
hmmmm i mangaed to set my sub on the bottmon mud throwed up etc....uhmmm
In sh5? you can "bottom" the u-boat but the computer thinks that the bottom is 10 meters above the visible bottom.
We need a Mod called 'Bottoms Up'
convoy hunter
05-15-10, 07:50 AM
We need a Mod called 'Bottoms Up'
what do you mean?
robbo180265
05-15-10, 08:03 AM
what do you mean?
He means a mod that would alow your sub to sit on the bottom of the ocean called "Bottoms Up"
Which coincidentaly is what we Brits say when having a drink
(doesn't sound as funny when explained lol)
kylania
06-05-10, 10:54 AM
In sh5? you can "bottom" the u-boat but the computer thinks that the bottom is 10 meters above the visible bottom.
Sometimes it's worse!
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/6766/seafloor.jpg
robbo180265
06-05-10, 12:31 PM
Sometimes it's worse!
That really is pretty poor isn't it?
Considering the depth under keel function came with the patch , which was hardly a rush job was it?
Yeah, pretty poor IMO.:nope:
kylania
06-05-10, 12:53 PM
Considering the depth under keel function came with the patch , which was hardly a rush job was it?
Depth Under Keel has been in the game since launch. It's just a button that was added to the UI with the patch. It's been useable and mapable to a key or UI element since the game came out though.
robbo180265
06-05-10, 01:40 PM
Depth Under Keel has been in the game since launch. It's just a button that was added to the UI with the patch. It's been useable and mapable to a key or UI element since the game came out though.
Actually yeah - I forgot that.
So it would have been bugged since day one, and all they did was add the button by the looks of it.
Bit of a shame really as it's a pretty important function (as you illustrate beautifully a couple of posts above) and one that needs to work.
Sometimes it's worse!
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/6766/seafloor.jpg
Last two days I'm trying to figure out how to solve that bug,but can't figure out anything useful...Can anybody help?...What defines relation betwen sub and sea floor in the game?...
I am pretty sure this is a game code bug ... probably related to terrain data.
Schwieger
10-01-10, 07:00 AM
So the question is, can you beach your submarine on the shore or will it hover?
mobucks
10-01-10, 08:17 AM
Hitting the bottom like a bag of bricks is the only sure way to know your on the bottom.
Hitting the bottom like a bag of bricks is the only sure way to know your on the bottom.
That is exactly what I would like to experience in game...Unfortunately we can't cause of that damn bug...Need to solve that or I will go crazy...:damn:
Any help from more experienced modders is welcome...
tonschk
10-02-10, 01:32 AM
...Need to solve that or I will go crazy...:damn:
Me too
Madox58
10-02-10, 06:57 PM
There's an attachment Node for Room_EXT that is roughly 1 or 2 meters below the main hull.
I'm wondering if this contributes to the problem?
As I'd think a bounding box would include this Node.
One way to test if it has any effect would be to remove it.
I'm not sure but I think I found a possible bugger who is responsible for described problem.There is a node in Waypoints_Room_QR1 approximately 20m below main sub hull.If you open it with Goblin editor,you'll see an entry which name is Cam01_wake_up_box.And I think that one is responsible for we can't dive to the bottom of the sea...
Now I don't know how to edit that file or delete that node.Any suggestion is welcome...:salute:
Madox58
10-03-10, 12:30 PM
That's a 3D object that is near 20m below the Hull.
It is possible to edit the placement of that object in the GR2 file.
It has to be done in a Hex editor,
then tested to assure no weird side effects are caused.
Like a whacked room placement or such.
Uf...Can you explain what should I do in HEXa editor to change the placement of a single node in .GR2 file?:06:
I'm sorry if I'm clumsy...Thanks...
Madox58
10-05-10, 09:25 AM
You can try this file.
http://www.mediafire.com/?a1aoqwxmao5j4ud
All I did was move the vertices of the 3D object "Cam01_wake_up_box".
I did not re-calculate the Normals as it's a hidden object.
The 'Bone' or positional Node, was left in place.
If it works great.
If there are problems we need to move to the Mod thread and work on them.
I try your file,but unfortunately it doesn't work...Screenshot shows minimum distance from sea bottom I achieved.It won't go deeper...
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2961/screeny23.jpg
As I did some further tests,it might be that there is not problem with sub model...
Breaktrough! I finally managed to run aground with my sub...trully amazing...
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2930/screeny24.jpg...it seems that this is related to sphere zones.What I do was that I removed sphere controller from zone file...Now I must figure out how to mix all together...
Ajoj.That algaes are so unreal...like trees under ocean...Don't they suppose to be smaller?...
TheDarkWraith
10-05-10, 03:51 PM
excellent find! Sometimes the most obvious items are overlooked :yep:
Breaktrough! I finally managed to run aground with my sub...trully amazing...
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2930/screeny24.jpg...it seems that this is related to sphere zones.What I do was that I removed sphere controller from zone file...Now I must figure out how to mix all together...
Ajoj.That algaes are so unreal...like trees under ocean...Don't they suppose to be smaller?...
Woohoo!
If you would be so kind, when you have it all working right, to publish this mod for all to enjoy. Thanks! :salute:
oscar19681
10-05-10, 04:12 PM
Yes please! release this in a much wanted mod!
Drakron
10-05-10, 04:57 PM
Problem with deleting it is that collision detection now is likely to fail, granny can use ray-sphere collision detection as it seems what they used in SH5 case.
The way to see if there is a problem is making sure collision is still working by crashing down into the sea floor, run aground and ram the sub into a ship.
TheDarkWraith
10-05-10, 05:08 PM
just looked with Goblin editor and all spheres are normal size (sub and conning tower)....something else is arai here :hmmm:
oscar19681
10-05-10, 05:54 PM
This is supermod stuff guys. since months i feel were slowly getting somewhere.
But if this gets finished maybe somene can fix the " trees" on the ocean floor.
TheDarkWraith
10-05-10, 07:32 PM
since Oby gave some insight as to where the possible problem is I started playing around with the .zon file. I didn't remove any zones or anything, I just disabled some collisions and moved one sphere up some and decreased it's radius. Result:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=285&pictureid=3110
yes the sub is actually going through the bottom. That's not really the problem though. The problem is I did a 180 degree turn to get to the point in the screenie above. Before that 180 degree turn the terrain was sloping down at a shallow angle and the sub was hovering above the terrain. Do the 180 degree turn and sub is going through the terrain now. This means there is a problem with the game's terrain functions. It appears that it calculates a mean depth from a certain area of the terrain and uses that for the collision detection with objects :hmmm:
Great TDW...I agree totally...Although sferes play some role in that problem,the main bugger still exists...As you said,it appears to be something wrong with terrain...Solving that would be a great achievement...:salute:
tonschk
10-06-10, 01:53 AM
It appears that it calculates a mean depth from a certain area of the terrain and uses that for the collision detection with objects :hmmm:
Do you tink is possible to reduce such " area of the terrain " from let say 100 meters square to 10 meters square ? ,or in other words increase somehow the resolution of such mean depth calculation ?
I just couldn't resist not to post that...for some motivation...
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6044/screeny28a.jpg
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2456/screeny29a.jpg
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6044/screeny28a.jpghttp://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6044/screeny28a.jpghttp://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6044/screeny28a.jpg
oscar19681
10-06-10, 05:22 PM
sexy
Great TDW...I agree totally...Although sferes play some role in that problem,the main bugger still exists...As you said,it appears to be something wrong with terrain...Solving that would be a great achievement...:salute:
If you stay long enough under water with the external camera you can see how the sea floor will change. Rocks appear and disapear, same with the algae trees and even the floor level will change time by time. Happened to me once when I was hovering the sea floor at 15m and sudden my crew started to shout that the hull is damaged and we hit the ocean floor. More than that, you can dive with the camera into the ground, same as the sunk ships do after a while.
And this is the 5th version of SH, not the first one... go figure :S
oscar19681
10-07-10, 10:54 AM
Not to mention that my home port dissapeares avery now and then. Geez they must be fidling around with the philidelphia project in kiel.
That's all ?!?
TheDarkWraith or somebody else, aren't you going to produce & publish some better sub ".zon" files ?
I mean, even if the bottom depth isn't very precise, I suppose it should be easy to obtain a much better compromise, than what we get with the actual stock settings.
ACS
robbo180265
10-11-10, 12:24 PM
That's all ?!?
TheDarkWraith or somebody else, aren't you going to produce & publish some better sub ".zon" files ?
I mean, even if the bottom depth isn't very precise, I suppose it should be easy to obtain a much better compromise, than what we get with the actual stock settings.
ACS
Why don't you have a go at modding it instead of ordering the modders to work? :hmmm:
Why don't you have a go at modding it instead of ordering the modders to work? :hmmm:
He robbo180265,
Keep it cool and read better next time !!!
I don't ordered anything to anybody. I just asked if some of the involved modders in this thread, had the intention to continue doing something about that problem. I was just very surprised that this very promising story finished so abruptly. This is why I asked.
I am not going to re-invent what TheDarkWraith already founded & imagined himself. What I have done instead, is to correct the ClimateZones.tga file of the W-clear Environmental mod (see here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1512234&postcount=895 )
And you, by the way, what have you done for the community ?
ACS
robbo180265
10-12-10, 08:33 AM
He robbo180265,
Keep it cool and read better next time !!!
I don't ordered anything to anybody. I just asked if some of the involved modders in this thread, had the intention to continue doing something about that problem. I was just very surprised that this very promising story finished so abruptly. This is why I asked.
I am not going to re-invent what TheDarkWraith already founded & imagined himself. What I have done instead, is to correct the ClimateZones.tga file of the W-clear Environmental mod (see here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1512234&postcount=895 )
And you, by the way, what have you done for the community ?
ACS
Whatever.
Actually I'll add that I don't play SH5 anymore, you will however find many threads where I've praised Modders, helped members with problems with the game etc etc - so if its a p*ssing contest you want...
Takeda Shingen
10-12-10, 08:53 AM
In fairness to Robbo, ACSoft's post did ring a bit like 'Bring me my wine'. I believe that it was not intentional, but it came off that way none-the-less.
Whatever.
Actually I'll add that I don't play SH5 anymore, you will however find many threads where I've praised Modders, helped members with problems with the game etc etc - so if its a p*ssing contest you want...
Please, add to your list of brillant actions for the community "Giving lessons to other", "Writing vulgar provocations" like your actual "if its a p*ssing contest you want".
ACS
robbo180265
10-12-10, 04:11 PM
In fairness to Robbo, ACSoft's post did ring a bit like 'Bring me my wine'. I believe that it was not intentional, but it came off that way none-the-less.
Please, add to your list of brillant actions for the community "Giving lessons to other", "Writing vulgar provocations" like your actual "if its a p*ssing contest you want".
ACS
I think I'm done here - I may have miss-construed your post , however I'll not be pulled into a flame war.
Will-Rommel
10-12-10, 10:05 PM
Good job Robbo. :03:
I think I'm done here - I may have miss-construed your post , however I'll not be pulled into a flame war.
OK Robbo,
Apparently, we both have a "sensitive trigger" :03: !!!
Me too, I positively don't want to be pulled into a flame war.
I admit that my question about what you have done for the Community, was an "arrow" in exactly the same "style" of your advise to me, to start doing a mod myself instead of "ordering" to modder's. Reading your reaction, it had, apparently, produced the same effect on you than your message on me !!!
So accept my appologize for this inapropriate question.
ACS
robbo180265
10-13-10, 09:24 AM
OK Robbo,
Apparently, we both have a "sensitive trigger" :03: !!!
Me too, I positively don't want to be pulled into a flame war.
I admit that my question about what you have done for the Community, was an "arrow" in exactly the same "style" of your advise to me, to start doing a mod myself instead of "ordering" to modder's. Reading your reaction, it had, apparently, produced the same effect on you than your message on me !!!
So accept my appologize for this inapropriate question.
ACS
Indeed matey, we both overeacted :salute:
I too am sorry for any offence
oscar19681
10-14-10, 09:16 AM
What is the possiblity of having this as a take-away mod in the mod section anyway soon?
oscar19681
12-17-10, 10:07 AM
I guess this is as dead as a WWII u-boat!
oscar19681
12-20-10, 07:18 PM
I rest my case.
irR4tiOn4L
01-13-11, 06:11 AM
Sometimes it's worse!
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/6766/seafloor.jpg
This is probably why the 'depth under keel' button was removed from the game in the first place.
Looks like somebody stuffed up the collision model for the sea, game wide.
oscar19681
01-13-11, 06:34 AM
Yes its incredably anti-immersive.
EgoApocalypse
01-13-11, 08:32 AM
I wonder if TDW will be adding this in to the Super - Mod?
TDW?
homsikpanda
01-13-11, 04:12 PM
So the question is, can you beach your submarine on the shore or will it hover?
i accidently beached my sub in a forest once >.>;
oscar19681
03-03-11, 01:47 PM
I,m apalled that this hasnt been fixed so far. Its so absolutly stupid and is another example that sh-5 was never ment to be released and sold a a game but rather a subsim toolsoftware for the community.
But is this really so hard to fix?
Takeda Shingen
03-03-11, 04:24 PM
Let it rest. No pun intended.
oscar19681
03-03-11, 05:05 PM
Let it rest. No pun intended.
why? i like this to be fixed.
Takeda Shingen
03-03-11, 05:38 PM
why? i like this to be fixed.
Then why not mod it yourself? Periodically bumping the thread to the top and telling everyone how lazy they are for not fixing it only makes peole angry.
oscar19681
03-03-11, 06:18 PM
Then why not mod it yourself? Periodically bumping the thread to the top and telling everyone how lazy they are for not fixing it only makes peole angry.
Oh really? I dont see anyone angry here but you. Whoever said anything about me saying the modders are lazy? I just bumped it so it would come under the attention of potential modders and people who feel the same way. I dont understand what your problem is. If you dont have anything to add to this topitc that might be of help then please dont bother do reply at all please.
Takeda Shingen
03-03-11, 06:21 PM
Oh really? I dont see anyone angry here but you. Whoever said anything about me saying the modders are lazy? I just bumped it so it would come under the attention of potential modders and people who feel the same way. I dont understand what your problem is. If you dont have anything to add to this topitc that might be of help then please dont bother do reply at all please.
I'm not angry at all. I'm just curious about your insistence on things. In terms of the modders, just read your posts, I think it is pretty clear that you have an expectation that this be modded; a demand to be served, if you will. I will say again: If you feel so strongly about it, stop posting about it and start working on it yourself.
reignofdeath
03-03-11, 11:24 PM
since Oby gave some insight as to where the possible problem is I started playing around with the .zon file. I didn't remove any zones or anything, I just disabled some collisions and moved one sphere up some and decreased it's radius. Result:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=285&pictureid=3110
yes the sub is actually going through the bottom. That's not really the problem though. The problem is I did a 180 degree turn to get to the point in the screenie above. Before that 180 degree turn the terrain was sloping down at a shallow angle and the sub was hovering above the terrain. Do the 180 degree turn and sub is going through the terrain now. This means there is a problem with the game's terrain functions. It appears that it calculates a mean depth from a certain area of the terrain and uses that for the collision detection with objects :hmmm:
This seems like it would be more realistic though (As long as thats where you got the collision to happen) because wouldnt it seem that the sub going say 8 kts on the bottom would drive itself somewhat deeper into the sea floor?
Poacher886
03-07-11, 03:49 PM
Actually, i've just finished reading "Iron Coffins", where the Author , one of the few survivors from the U-boat war, regulary pitched his U-boat on the bottom, and waited for the correct tide to pull him through tight spots like the English Channel and Gibraltor at speeds reaching 14knots while running on silent running speed!
He said using the current ment a quick speed with zero sound...and worth the wait!
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