Bermuda Triangle

[Feuer Frei!]

http://www.destination360.com/maps/bermuda-triangle-map.gif


"The Bermuda Triangle (a.k.a. the Devil's Triangle) is a triangular area in the Atlantic Ocean bounded roughly at its points by Miami, Bermuda, and Puerto Rico. Legend has it that many people, ships and planes have mysteriously vanished in this area. How many have mysteriously disappeared depends on who is doing the locating and the counting. The size of the triangle varies from 500,000 square miles to three times that size, depending on the imagination of the author. (Some include the Azores, the Gulf of Mexico, and the West Indies in the "triangle.") Some trace the mystery back to the time of Columbus. Even so, estimates range from about 200 to no more than 1,000 incidents in the past 500 years. Howard Rosenberg claims that in 1973 the U.S. Coast Guard answered more than 8,000 distress calls in the area and that more than 50 ships and 20 planes have gone down in the Bermuda Triangle within the last century.
Many theories have been given to explain the extraordinary mystery of these missing ships and planes. Evil extraterrestrials, residue crystals from Atlantis, evil humans with anti-gravity devices or other weird technologies, and vile vortices from the fourth dimension are favorites among fantasy writers. Strange magnetic fields and oceanic flatulance (methane gas from the bottom of the ocean) are favorites among the technically-minded. Weather (thunderstorms, hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes, high waves, currents, etc.) bad luck, pirates, explosive cargoes, incompetent navigators, and other natural and human causes are favorites among skeptical investigators.
There are some skeptics who argue that the facts do not support the legend, that there is no mystery to be solved, and nothing that needs explaining. The number of wrecks in this area is not extraordinary, given its size, location and the amount of traffic it receives. Many of the ships and planes that have been identified as having disappeared mysteriously in the Bermuda Triangle were not in the Bermuda Triangle at all. Investigations to date have not produced scientific evidence of any unusual phenomena involved in the disappearances. Thus, any explanation, including so-called scientific ones in terms of methane gas being released from the ocean floor, magnetic disturbances, etc., are not needed. The real mystery is how the Bermuda Triangle became a mystery at all.
The modern legend of the Bermuda Triangle began soon after five Navy planes (Flight 19) vanished on a training mission during a severe storm in 1945. The most logical theory as to why they vanished is that lead pilot Lt. Charles Taylor’s compass failed. The trainees' planes were not equipped with working navigational instruments. The group was disoriented and simply, though tragically, ran out of fuel. No mysterious forces were likely to have been involved other than the mysterious force of gravity on planes with no fuel. It is true that one of the rescue planes blew up shortly after take-off, but this was likely due to a faulty gas tank rather than to any mysterious forces.
Over the years there have been dozens of articles, books, and television programs promoting the mystery of the Bermuda Triangle. In his study of this material, Larry Kusche found that few did any investigation into the mystery. Rather, they passed on the speculations of their predecessors as if they were passing on the mantle of truth. Of the many uncritical accounts of the mystery of the Bermuda Triangle, perhaps no one has done more to create this myth than Charles Berlitz, who had a bestseller on the subject in 1974. After examining the 400+ page official report of the Navy Board of Investigation of the disappearance of the Navy planes in 1945, Kusche found that the Board wasn't baffled at all by the incident and did not mention alleged radio transmissions cited by Berlitz in his book. According to Kusche, what isn't misinterpreted by Berlitz is fabricated. Kusche writes: "If Berlitz were to report that a boat were red, the chance of it being some other color is almost a certainty." (Berlitz, by the way, did not invent the name; that was done by Vincent Gaddis in "The Deadly Bermuda Triangle," which appeared in the February, 1964, issue of Argosy, a magazine devoted to fiction.)
In short, the mystery of the Bermuda Triangle became a mystery by a kind of communial reinforcement among uncritical authors and a willing mass media to uncritically pass on the speculation that something mysterious is going on in the Atlantic."

In closing, a great link:
http://www.bermuda-triangle.org/html/myths___facts.html

Dispelling myth? (Possibly).


What do we all think about the triangle?
Myth? Scepticism? Truth?
I invite discussions, Kaleuns.

[GoldenRivet]

There have been many theories over the years about the triangle. Some of them plausible others down right insane.

You really could fill a small library with all of the printed material written just on the subject of the Bermuda triangle alone.

I think there are a lot of things we dont understand about our world, and the Bermuda triangle is just one of them. I mean... 75% of our planet is ocean... and only something like 1% of it is explored (exact figures anyone?)

That said, you sure hear a lot of strange stories and reports dating back to the days of Christopher Columbus and the ages of the tall sailing ships all the way up to the modern times with flight 19 and the other oddities.

one thing i would like to point out about the triangle:

If you take two areas of the world (we'll call them Area A and Area B, both roughly the same sized areas, both see roughly the same amount of traffic activity etc both areas have roughly the same number of lost aircraft, sunken ships and small boats and other disappearances etc.

but lets add this to the dynamic...

Area "A" has had a mystique about stories told for many many generations about strange occurrences, sightings, disappearances etc.

Area "B"... well, its just some unassuming place, like Delaware... or Nebraska

Which one are people more likely to take notice of when something like a ship or an airplane or some other craft goes missing without a trace, no distress call, no wreckage... the damn thing is just gone?

of course people are going to pay more attention to such occurrences in Area A!

however, i personally believe that something strange is going on in the triangle. Be it some sort of underwater release of gasses, or some sort of strange magnetic anomaly. Who knows. God knows i have had my share of strange experiences while piloting an airplane - nowhere physically near the triangle. Some of those experiences... had they not occurred over dry land in an area familiar to me, who knows? i might have been part of the triangle lore myself!

I dont necessarily buy the underwater UFO base garbage.

I dont buy the lost city of Atlantis' ancient power chrystal BS either.

Truth of the matter is, you have to consider that there is a massive difference between "A person" and "People"

a person - is an individual... usually quite intelligent to some degree.

People - is a grouping of individuals... the larger this group becomes, the more ignorant and gullible they are collectively.

"people" love a good mystery, even if it means they buy this UFO / abduction /ghost stuff wholesale ;)

part of the problem we run into is the nature of the losses.

Flight 19 as an example.

you have a chain of "unknowns" which makes the whole thing a damn good mystery.

Was there malfunctioning equipment?

Was there some sort of emergency?

Did someone have a problem that required them to ditch and the rest of the flight circled thinking help was on the way?

Was some hostile force of some sort encountered?

break one link of the chain by making it a "known variable" and the mystery has a significant chance of no longer being a mystery at all.

truth is, with virtually no substantial or meaningful communications, flight 19 took off, headed out on a routine flight... and never came back.

for the most part, thats all we really know for a fact. even the navy board of inquiry basically openly said "We cant even guess what happened"

Any pilot who tells you he has never been lost is a God Damned liar.

i would rather be kicked squarely in the balls than be lost in an airplane... especially over water. The problem with flying over open water is that it all looks the same. no landmarks

if you make one error in heading, wind correction angle, Time - speed - distance computation, magnetic variation correction... anything - you run the risk of being completely and permanently lost to everything and everyone but God himself.

i believe that flight 19 is a tragedy of human error... but as yet we do not understand the circumstances which caused the loss of the entire flight, we shall continue to blame the Bermuda Triangle.

she is an enigmatic bitch than triangle.

but i end this post with one question; out of all the UFO sightings, and all the claims of fishy activity in the Bermuda Triangle - 99% of them might be BS... but what about that 1%? :hmmm:

[SteamWake]

I spent quite a deal of time sailing in those waters and I'm still here ;)

[Dowly]

Shame. :)

[Weiss Pinguin]

I spent quite a deal of time sailing in those waters and I'm still here ;)
That explains a lot ;)

[SteamWake]

I said I'm still here not all there :03:

[GoldenRivet]

Well i started researching flight 19's disappearance.

It would appear that flight 19 was radio located to be somewhere in position 29° 0′ 0″ N, 79° 0′ 0″ heading west toward the coast of Florida at about 6pm. The transmission that helped radio locate the flights position was a broadcast order from Flight 19s leader to "tighten up the formation" Though the flight was still more or less unaware of their position, several of the pilots in the formation insisted "If we just head west we will find Florida. From this radio located position, flight 19 would have made landfall just before 8pm

about an hour and a half later a PBM-5 search and rescue aircraft (similar to a PBY) was dispatched out of Banana River NAS and took up an approximate intercept course to locate flight 19 and guide them to land.


20 minutes later, and exactly west of Flight 19s radio located position, the PBM-5 search and rescue airplane explodes for an unknown reason. witnesses aboard a cargo ship said the explosion was massive temporarily lighting up the sky, debris fell into the ocean and burned for about 10 minutes.


Because the wreckage fell into the area of the 5 - 6 MPH current of the gulf stream, the wreckage remained afloat for a short time and sank. Any surface wreckage or sinking wreckage would have been dispersed over the course of the current, perhaps by a distance of a couple of miles.

The cargo ship diverted to look for survivors, found an oil slick with all fire extinguished on heavy seas, and no survivors.

It is very rare for airplanes to spontaneously explode, though has happened to a couple of airplanes through history.

It is my belief that the PBM-5 mariner, tasked with locating flight 19 did just that.

With the PBM-5's 13 man crew looking for possibly ditched aircraft, i would assume that a fair amount of the eyeballs aboard the PBM-5 were focusing on the surface of the sea searching for any signs of flames, wreckage or distress flares.

combined with...

Flight 19 trying very hard to navigate, most of their aviators possibly heads down trying to locate radio aids to navigation on their paper work, or trying very hard to peer toward the west fro any sign of lights indicating land. (the sun had been set for over an hour and a half)

I think that the cause for the massive explosion aboard the PBM-5 was a multi-aircraft mid-air collision between the PBM-5 and the tightened formation of flight 19.

If Flight 19 was within visual range of the coast of florida, it is plausible that they had lights in sight in the near pitch dark. If this is the cause it is completely possible that any lights on the PBM-5 would have blended right in with the coastal lights, and would have probably gone mostly un-noticed by flight-19

IMHO, searchers are not looking for intact Avenger bombers resting neatly on the sea floor as if they were ditched.

the should be looking for large pieces that would survive collision, such as engines or large pieces of the empennage of the aircraft.



I think Flight 19, very nearly out of fuel, collided with the nearly fully fueled PBM-5 search plane.

[SteamWake]

I dunno GR I think the flight leader was in way over his head and would not listen to advice. Simple as that.

I suppose its possible that one of them if not the leader doinked the PBM and it went from bad to worst.

[Rhodes]

In a documentary about the triangle and the Flight 19, they said they are many more triangles out there. Ocean area's that a number of ships dissapered unexplain during decades. But only the bermuda has fame and spotligh. I remeber that the did the same shame in the coast of Africa with cabo verde islands or canaries as one triangle point.

[GoldenRivet]

I suppose its possible that one of them if not the leader doinked the PBM and it went from bad to worst.

One thing comes to mind.

Rammstein airshow - frecce tricolori.

a single small jet plowed through a tight formation of other small jets of the same type causing the loss of 3 of the aircraft.

now

imagine a tightly grouped formation of TBMs... in a similar spread and formation size of the Frecce Tricolori chrash.

now, instead of plowing another TBM avenger through the formation, lets take an aircraft roughly 80 feet long, with a wingspan of almost 120 feet and plow it through the formation.

even if one Avenger bomber from flight 19 survived with light damage... he would have been flying a crippled aircraft in the dark, in less than ideal weather conditions, lost over rough seas... a sure recipe for disaster.

sure, the flight leader lost his situational awareness - possibly due to some equipment malfunctions. I further notice through research that not one of the aircraft in flight 19 was equipped with a functioning clock... an essential piece of navigational equipment.

things snowballed on the flight leader (who at one time placed another pilot in command of the flight) - this hints to me that they had finally talked him into heading west against all of his instinct.

unfortunately - and this is only my theory - but the flight headed west right into the point of collision with this PBM.:nope:

[CaptainHaplo]

GR - I have to dispute this theory my friend - for a few reasons. Flight 19 took of at 2:10 pm - while the flight itself was scheduled to go no farther than 123 miles east (over the Bahamas - less than an hour flight at their 140mph cruise speed), all the birds were fully loaded with fuel. This gave them a range of over 1,000 miles. The group was scheduled to make practice attack runs at Chicken and Hen shoals near Bimini Island, and did in fact carry out this activity. At ~3:50, Charles Taylor, the flight leader, reported that his compasses were erratic. Edward Powers, another pilot, was consulted and all the pilots compared compass headings. There was no consensus - but the discussion was overheard by Lt Robert Cox, another flight instructor in the vicinity of Ft Lauderdale. He contacted the flight and spoke with Taylor - who stated he was sure he was in the Keys, but not sure how far down. Cox instructed Taylor to put the sun on his port wing (making him head generally north) and fly till he hit the coast. Once he did - he would find Miami, and further on about ~20 miles, Ft. Lauderdale. He also indicated he would fly south to come assist - Taylor replied that he knew where he was and there was no need. Cox turned south anyway, yet his radio reception with the flight got worse - not better as would have occured had he been heading toward them.

Flight 19 was next heard about 4:25 - by the Port Everglades Rescue Facility. Taylor at that time ordered Powers to lead the flight NE - apparently assuming that Powers' compasses were functional. The only explanation for this is that Taylor was thinking he had somehow flown into the Gulf west of Florida - when in fact it appears (as is seen later) that he in fact was East of Florida - and this move sent Flight 19 out into the Atlantic. At 5:11, Taylor and Powers have an arguement - apparently Powers had turned the flight west. Taylor wanted to go east. However it happened, the flight is then heard stating "We are now heading 270 West". At 5:15, Taylor is heard stating "We will head 270 until we hit the beach or run out of gas." Oddly - radio reception never improved. At 5:54 Taylor refuses a frequency change requested by land stations. At 6:05, still no land - and having headed west, Taylor again asserts they are in the Gulf. An HF fix at this time places them ~225 miles NE of Ft Lauderdale, between New Smyrna Beach and Jacksonville. This means that the whole time they THOUGHT they were heading west, they were heading N. Oddly, neither IFF nor the ZBX gear on any aircraft was ever picked up, though the flight did confirm their IFF equipment was on.

At 5:55 one pilot states "we may have to ditch at any minute" - but then nothing else is discussed for a while regarding fuel. Obviously whatever was going on was affecting the fuel gauges, because Taylow was heard at 6:37 asking Powers what their current course was. The final radio signal, was at 7:04, from Fox Tare 3.

Initial estimates of fuel had them out running out by 6:30, then 7, and later 8pm. Avenger pilots have claimed it could have been as late as even 10pm based on leaning back as much as possible, but given that would have been done from the outset, somewhere between 7-8 is a reasonable assumption.

Which brings us to the Mariner. It exploded at 7:50, and the freighter Gaines Mill reported that it was directly under the aircraft when it exploded. No other aircraft were noted in the vicinity, but that proves nothing.

What does raise a problem with the midair crash theory is the USS Solomon. The Solomon had the PBM on its radarscope at the time of the explosion, and no other objects were noted in the vicinity. Had Flight 19 been in the area - radar contact should have shown up, and that close radio contact would also have been clear. Also, no debris was found that places any Avenger as involved in the explosion. This would indicate that Flight 19 was not involved directly with the loss of the Mariner. What happened to it however is simply another mystery on its own.

Now - as to the triangle itself - there are lots of debate on its actual shape. It is however, not the only area in the world known for disappearances. Check the Devil's Sea off of Japan for example. Also - one of the great lakes - Michigan I think - is know for disappearances at a high and odd rate.

If you want real weirdness when looking at the Bermuda Triangle - do the research on Sting 27. An F4 Phantom II, piloted by a trainee under instruction of John Romero (holder of 2 DFC's), it was lost on September 10, 1971. The standard summary sheet on this incident is highly redacted, but does show a box labeled "suspected point of impact" followed by a later arrow showing "radar contact lost". The distance and verbage indicates SOMETHING hit Sting 27 in midair. Also according to the report - Sting 29 and 30 were in the area and noted an "object" in the area - though what that is - is not defined. The most we get out of it is that Sting 29 dropped to 1500 ft and noted an "area of disturbance" in the water - describing it as "an area of water discoloration, oblong in shape, approximately 100x200', with its axis running N/S, its southern tip appeared to be below the surface, and the northern tip appeared to be above. So basically the pilot saw something sticking up out of the water. Couldn't have been an oil slick. The Coast Guard Cutter Steadfast was less than 5nm away and began searching immediately. No trace of Sting 27 was ever found.

You can also research AB524, the loss of a KA-6 assigned to the USS Kennedy..... its also a rather odd incident.

[GoldenRivet]

Avenger pilots have claimed it could have been as late as even 10pm based on leaning back as much as possible, but given that would have been done from the outset, somewhere between 7-8 is a reasonable assumption.

which could at least in theory put the TBM avenger flight and the PBM aircraft in roughly the same position at the same time. :hmmm:

What does raise a problem with the midair crash theory is the USS Solomon. The Solomon had the PBM on its radarscope at the time of the explosion, and no other objects were noted in the vicinity. Had Flight 19 been in the area - radar contact should have shown up, and that close radio contact would also have been clear.

given the rapidly deteriorating meteorological conditions at the time it is entirely probable... especially in early radar systems in use at the time, that the USS Solomon was experiencing something known as "Anomalous Propagation" wherin various meteorological events can render radar more or less useless at even short ranges.

While one aircraft may be observed, another may not. I have - on one occasion, in particularly poor weather experienced this, as air traffic controllers - even with modern radar did not even pick up my primary contact which - on a clear day - even a flock of birds would likely give off.

(my transponder was not activated at the time) and i was about 10 miles away from the radar site. It was not until some figiting with the transponder and finally getting it to work that my aircraft appeared to controllers out of nowhere. Though i was not located in any rain - there was lots of it around, with rapidly reducing pressure and temperature. with lightning appearing to the distant west.

Based on communications between the controller and other aircraft in the area at the time, he had no problems seeing those aircraft of similar size on radar.

early radar systems were particularly prone to this sort of thing, especially at sea, with rapidly changing temperature conditions, thunderstorm or precipitation activity. - which was the case that night. - furthermore anomolous propogation is more prone to occur after sunset believe it or not as the earth's ionosphere settles in at lower altitudes than it sits during the day.

Reports as to the proximity of the SS Gaines Mills to the explosion it observed differ. I have seen accounts which place the ship within spitting distance of the explosion, to reports that the estimate placed it to within a few miles.

either way, dark had by now set in for at least an hour... it is entirely possible that the first and only indication that an aircraft was overhead would have been the explosion itself... at this time, nobody aboard the Gaines Mills would have likely had any clue as to how many aircraft might have been involved in the explosion just by looking up and seing a ball of fire.

truth is we will probably never know.

however, the mid-air collision theory is not by any means filled with holes. Radio location places the avenger flight about 140 miles east of the location where the PBM exploded, heading due west.

given an average ground speed of 140 - 150 mph - it is entirely possible that these two flights converged at the PBM's crash site

The mid-air theory is plausible, makes sense and is one of the more logical explanations.

[Wolfehunter]

Bermuda triangle always fascinated me. Great way to vanish..:D

[Aramike]

Honestly, the methane gas theory seems to be the most sound, in my opinion.

...although, in the interest of full disclosure, it was far more interesting when I thought of the triangle as just a wierd place things have inexplicably happened than when the science starting coming out.

Unsolved mysteries with an emphasis on the paranormal are just fun to contemplate, I think.

[Reece]

I spent quite a deal of time sailing in those waters and I'm still here ;)

Shame. :):har::har:

[nikimcbee]

I spent quite a deal of time sailing in those waters and I'm still here ;)

Blind luck?
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p69/oaklea/Gilligan.jpg


j/k, couldn't resist:D

[Castout]

Okay I admit it. It's me :haha:(now hide from Jimbuna).


Umm I'm more interested in crop circle phenomenon.

Because I think those are Jimbuna's graffitis after a few beers. :har:

Many things we don't know. The most important thing on these things is never to assume that we do know while in fact we're lacking knowledge.

Our economies and technologies are so dependent on dead animal extract that happens to be volatile that when they're depleted we're going to have big big problems. I sigh every time seeing the space shuttle. Its fuel tanks are bigger than the actual craft. If there were aliens out there I hope they don't find us until much later.

[Feuer Frei!]

Many things we don't know. The most important thing on these things is never to assume that we do know while in fact we're lacking knowledge.

Agree, i just wish some of this would be applied to the "why is the patch late" threads.

[SteamWake]

No... more like this wise guys :haha:

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/UlteriorModem/osrboat.jpg

[STEED]

Okay I admit it. It's me :haha:(now hide from Jimbuna).


Umm I'm more interested in crop circle phenomenon.

Because I think those are Jimbuna's graffitis after a few beers. :har:

Flipping heck...jim, a artist! :o

Modern Tate the next stop. :hmmm:

[STEED]

I think the Bermuda Triangle is all tosh. ;)

[Castout]

Agree, i just wish some of this would be applied to the "why is the patch late" threads.

You had me laughing for that :haha:

[TarJak]

Flipping heck...jim, a artist! :o

Modern Tate the next stop. :hmmm: LOL Pink Lane more like.:03:

I think the Bermuda Triangle is all tosh. ;)Agreed. More bollocks books have been spouted about this than almost any other place on earth.


Umm I'm more interested in crop circle phenomenon.

Because I think those are Jimbuna's graffitis after a few beers. :har:

Many things we don't know. The most important thing on these things is never to assume that we do know while in fact we're lacking knowledge.
One thing we do know is taht crop cirlces are man made. Dunno if Jim has been out on the tap where most of them occur though.:hmmm:

[CaptainHaplo]

The methane theory doesn't explain nearly the number of disappearances. Plus, it fails to account for aircraft losses in generaly. Sure, methane (or some suggest hydrogen) in the water could in theory change its displacement and cause a ship to just drop like a rock, but then - where is the remnants of the ship itself? Remember that the atlantic is pretty wired for sound nowadays, and most ships that have gone missing - have never had any parts found. Then you have the instances where the boat is fine, but all the people on it are mysteriously missing. In fact, in at least one instance this happened TWICE on the same boat - it was found drifting - a prize crew put aboard, and then they all disappeared too.

The only way methane could explain the plane losses is if a plane flew through a "concentrated pocket" of methane - and ignited it. That would cause an explosion granted - but then - why are these never before actually found methane pockets limited to one are? Also, how do they account for things such as aircraft found "parked" upright, underwater, with no physical damage, doors locked? How does Methane account for Sting 27, or AB524.

The key here is you have explainable occurances - and then you have the ones that defy all logic as we know it - that seem to happen specifically in certain areas - like the "triangle". When you combine the fact that its not one type of vehicle - but both aircraft AND boats (of ALL sizes) - something big is going on - and if it were purely environmental then it should have been identified by now.