What's a successful mission?

[dfscott]

I'm a pilot in RL and I've always said that a successful landing is any one you can walk away from. And I imagine that that holds true for a large extent for U-boat captains.

However, I've noticed that my tonnage numbers are significantly lower than many others on the forum. I'm not interested in playing a numbers game, but I do want to make sure that I'm maximizing my value to the Kriegsmarine!

For reference, I'm in a VIIB in Sept of 1939, running GWX3 at about 97% realism (everything clicked except no map contacts and the event camera). I've run 3 patrols (not counting the initial pre-war "pleasure cruise"), and I'm ending up in the neighborhood of 8-10K sunk per patrol. I usually end up having to return due to being out of fuel rather than out of eels. In comparison, I see people talking about hauling in 10-20K in a IIB, and some people are even talking about sinking well over 50K.

Part of what seems to be the problem is that I end up burning tons of fuel chasing down contacts that end up being a trawler or fishing boat (i.e., not worth wasting a torpedo on). This early in the war, I would expect to have a pretty target-rich environment, but I'm guessing about 2/3 to 3/4 of my potential targets end up being either neutrals or worthless targets.

So, all you well-seasoned Kaleun out there, share your tricks and knowledge with this green freshly-minted Kaleun -- is this type of experience typical at this realism level, or are there some tricks I can use to increase the number of tasty merchants I can send my eels to visit?

[maillemaker]

I don't recall numbers of tonnages, but I routinely sink 10 or more ships per patrol from 1939-1940.

I come out of Wilhelmshaven, head to the mouth of the channel, the cut north and follow the English coastline. I usually bag 3-6 ships along the east coast. Sometimes little guys, sometimes larger merchants, all alone. Every once in a while I'll hit a convoy on the east coast. I nailed one last week where I drew off the 4 destroyers, and then wiped out the entire convoy of 12 ships! But that is a rarity.

Then I duck between Lerwick and Scapa Flow, and cut West across the north coast of England. I usually do not find ships there.

I then hit Rockall Bank, and if that's not good for anything, AM52 and AM53 just north of Ireland are always very good hunting grounds.

I almost never come home with torpedoes in the boat, unless damage drives me home.

Also don't forget to use your deck gun whenever weather permits, at least until the merchant ships start being armed.

Now bear in mind that I'm playing the game, and not terribly realistically. I'm set to 100% realism (but I have map contacts turned on). I will reload torpedoes at any time (surfaced or submerged), and I'll pull in external eels at any time, regardless of weather. And I've used the TDC, with map contacts on, to dial in firing solutions while watching the little ship icon move around on the map. And I've been known to press "L" a time or two to lock up ships I could not see, though I'm trying to break myself of that habit. :)

Steve

[Weiss Pinguin]

Well, for one, where are you patrolling? On the way to and from your assigned grid, you might want to do a bit of fishing along the major shipping routes. (Check the pullout map on the top left of the navigation map station) Periodic sound checks can only help your chances further. And as Maillemaker said, AM52 and the Rockall banks are good places to check, if you get assigned near there, and I've caught convoys all around BF17 and the northeast corner of the BE sector.

Also, I'd say that up until 1941, you can expect to see quite a few neutrals. This past convoy (December 1941) I accidentally fired upon a French merchant that was travelling with a British large cargo. (Thankfully it didn't sink, even though I probably sent several dozen rounds into it)

Finding something to sink is probably half the game, and the more you check around the better your chances are of finding a fat tanker or somesuch. :arrgh!:

[schlechter pfennig]

I can't say that I've ever had to return to base because of low fuel. It's always been because I'm out of eels or due to battle damage. I normally run at ahead one third since that seems to give me my most fuel economy, and I don't usually persue anything outside of 50 km range that's headed away from me.

Yeah, it bites spending a bit of time chasing something only to find out it's neutral or tugboats or trawlers. Try surfacing after getting a sound contact and chasing down . . . a schooner ::mutters and grumbles:: Like a sailing ship would generate screw caviation??

My suggestions would be to 1) travel at ahead one-third, 2) take your time and learn where the best areas for targets are likely to be. maillemaker's suggested travel route is excellent, and very similar to one of the ones that I use.

Patience is the key to successful hunting: knowing when it's worthwhile to burn off litres of fuel in a flank speed chase, and when it's better to just let a 'maybe' pass by.

[dfscott]

I don't recall numbers of tonnages, but I routinely sink 10 or more ships per patrol from 1939-1940.
- snip -


Thanks for the feedback.

Based on your path, we're taking a similar route. I do use some self-imposed realism options (no external loading in bad weather, no internal loading unless submerged, must go to assigned patrol grid). The last two grid assignments were in BF, but this time I got AM -- maybe I'll get lucky this time? Also, I've been "following orders" and they've said no guns against merchant craft (although I will cheat and use it to finish off one I've already torpedoed).

I probably *could* sink 10 ships, but I just don't want to waste my torpedoes on fishing boats...

I can't say that I've ever had to return to base because of low fuel. It's always been because I'm out of eels or due to battle damage. I normally run at ahead one third since that seems to give me my most fuel economy, and I don't usually persue anything outside of 50 km range that's headed away from me.

I typically run at "standard" since I thought it was... you know... standard? In any case, I'll try 1/3 and see if I can make my fuel outlast my eels.

The last two patrols it's been storming on my way past Scapa Flow, so that definitely didn't help my fuel economy or hunting any...

[timmy41]

one third is the most efficient travel speed.
in a VIIC, i think you get about 20k at one third, and 8k at standard. far less at full and flank.

[frau kaleun]

Most of my patrols in fall/winter 1939 have ended up bagging between 25-50K GRT each. All in a VIIB running out of Wilhelmshaven.

I still play at a very low realism level which makes most things having to do with sinking ships much easier. I don't do manual targeting, so really all I have to worry about once I'm setting up to attack is being in range and getting a good enough AOB to make things go BOOM. I use magnetic fuses whenever possible, and even in rougher weather when the target is tossing around a bit I've still had good luck with them by setting the depth 1-2 meters *above* the ship's listed draft. If it actually runs into the ship, it still goes off, and that's good enough for me.

The overwhelming majority of my kills have been lone merchants, so I haven't spent a lot of time or fuel running away from escorts or dodging depth charges. With one-on-one attacks I try to stick to the "1 ship, 1 torpedo" rule unless it's a large merchant or something that size or bigger. As long as I can use the guns to finish off what the torpedo started, there's no sense in sending another eel to do the job.

I've gotten most of my tonnage in the AM grids already mentioned, NW of Ireland, and in the BF "teens" in the lower Western Approaches. I've also sunk several ships while running north or south off the west coast of Ireland in between those two areas. Usually coastal freighters but once or twice a large merchant in the 10K range. Overall I've seen a pretty good variety of ships - large merchants, ore carriers, Granville freighters. But I don't turn my nose up at anything that's out there. I used to cringe every time I'd get a contact and it would turn out to be yet another 2K coastal freighter... but I've found they do add up, especially if you're using one eel a piece on 'em. Which means when the large merchant does show up, I've usually got more than enough ammo on board to take it out as well.

My normal cruising around speed is 8 knots - this seems to give the best range figures when I inquire of my navigator. I have never had to end a patrol that early in the war with leftover eels because my fuel ran low. Sometimes I've still had half a tank when I got back to base.

[Brag]

I go wherever BDU sends me. After the 24 hours, move to prosperous hunting grounds.

Before the fall of France, I like opening holes on single traffic heading NE for the Fair Isle Passage.

I can't remember the exact BF grid, but locating yourself on a line Between Bristol and the Azores, off the continental shelf is a rich area for convoys.

My standard goal for a convoy attack is 10,000 BRT for four torpedoes.

Coming back to base is as satisfying as a nice greaser landing on an airplane. :D

[maillemaker]

Just wanted to add: I always hit my assigned patrol grid for 24 hours also.

I have changed my config file to give me renown for doing so. :)

Steve

[dfscott]

Ok, thanks all. Looking at the map, I now realized that don't follow the course you mentioned. Once I leave the docks at Wilhelmshaven, I head straight for Scapa Flow -- I don't stop by the channel or skirt the coast. Maybe that's why I'm missing all the good stuff. I have yet to even see a convoy...

[sergei]

Get yourself round to the Western Approaches.
Plenty convoy there :DL

[schlechter pfennig]

Here is an excellent area for finding traffic:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=168607

[KL-alfman]

for the VIIB which I ride atm I can say that with Wreford-Brown's "Deck awash and fuel economy"-mod the range at 1/3 is about 32,000km.
that's pretty enough.
speed ranges from 6kn (in extremely heavy seas) to 8kn in calm wheather.

[frau kaleun]

Ok, thanks all. Looking at the map, I now realized that don't follow the course you mentioned. Once I leave the docks at Wilhelmshaven, I head straight for Scapa Flow -- I don't stop by the channel or skirt the coast. Maybe that's why I'm missing all the good stuff. I have yet to even see a convoy...

I never skirt the British coast in the run north out of Willy, and usually don't do it on the way home either. Occasionally I'll get a ship somewhere in the North Sea on the way home, but I usually stay far to the east of Britain because if I attack anything on the way back through there it's gonna be with the guns and I don't want to be near the British coast in that case.

Almost all my tonnage comes from the Western Approaches, or the occasional ship when I'm coming over the top of the British Isles on my way there. Or once in a while out to the west of Ireland on my way to and from the BE/BF sectors which is where my orders are usually telling me to go.

[Weiss Pinguin]

The east coast is pretty good hunting for Type II's, as the Scapa Flow is just about at the edge of the IIB's operating range. The D can go further, of course, but with only 5 torpedoes there's not really much point.

But you're not in a Type II, so anyways :lol:

[Brag]

Here is an old thread with good hunting locations :DL

Happy Hunting Grounds (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114147&highlight=spinnenetz)

[pickinthebanjo]

Generally I get 10-20k while being very cautious, (usually the patrol after I get beat up by escorts) but when i'm trying to get promoted I tend to do stupid thing resulting in at least 40k but heavy damages.

Harbor attacks are good if your feeling brave, just remember there are mines, nets, surface batteries and very shallow depths.

I agree that AM52 and it's surrounding grids are great spots also

Good luck

[gazpode_l]

Pretty new to career mode within SH3, but one area i've found is peachy spot just SW of holyhead. I'm running a IXB out of Lorient in Oct 1940 and am on my 2nd Career. On my first I hit a huge convoy there and bagged four or five ships before running out of eel's and getting D/C'd to my grave! :dead:

In my current career I again hit a convoy SW of holyhead just the other night, so I wld suggest giving the irish sea a try. Also keep an eye on where you are on the map cause the darker colors highlight the deeper depths.

[Snestorm]

If fuel is the problem, just use "Slow" as your primary travel speed.

Tonnage comparisons around here aren't realy possible, as we all use different realism settings, and SIR (Self Imposed Restrictions).
Not to mention the differences in mods, and modding.

Your best, and most evenly matched competitor, is your own past carriers.

[Hook]

Ahead slow was probably the most efficient speed in the stock game. It set the RPMs at 40%. GWX sets ahead slow at 25%.

A quick test today at various speed settings on the GWX VIIb without updates:

Speed setting - Speed - Max range at current speed

Ahead slow - 4.5 kts - 18800 km
7.5 knots - 7.5 kts - 33000 km - speed set manually
Ahead 1/3 - 10 kts - 22000 km
Ahead standard - 14 kts - 11500 km
Ahead full - 16 kts - 8500 km

Hook

[Snestorm]

Ahead slow was probably the most efficient speed in the stock game. It set the RPMs at 40%. GWX sets ahead slow at 25%.

A quick test today at various speed settings on the GWX VIIb without updates:

Speed setting - Speed - Max range at current speed

Ahead slow - 4.5 kts - 18800 km
7.5 knots - 7.5 kts - 33000 km - speed set manually
Ahead 1/3 - 10 kts - 22000 km
Ahead standard - 14 kts - 11500 km
Ahead full - 16 kts - 8500 km

Hook

I don't use GWX.
Slow = Turns set for 7 knots.
(That's something I never altered.)

With all the different mods, and modding habits, one size sure doesn't fit all.

[Wreford-Brown]

Ahead slow was probably the most efficient speed in the stock game. It set the RPMs at 40%.

The most fuel economic speed is between 44 and 46% depending on u-boat type so stock was pretty close to the best value.
Believe me, I've done a lot of research: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=139019

[Hook]

Excellent! Thanks. That's going to save me a lot of research.

Hook

[timmy41]

one should note that in GWX, fuel is added to compensate for the fact that the in game earth is flat, not round.

[MoN]

This just happened ... once in a lifetime luck i guess.

Excuse the German.


Feindfahrt 2|U-103, U-Flotilla Saltzwedel|Ausgelaufen: Dezember 30, 1939, 06:39|Von: Wilhelmshaven|Befehle: In Planquadrat BF44 patrouillieren
.
.
3rd Jan. 40
Schiff versenkt!|Planquadrat AF 78|HMS Hood, 48360 BRT
.
.
12th Jan. 40
Schiff versenkt!|Planquadrat BF 41|HMS Nelson, 36000 BRT
.
.
25th Jan. 40 returned to Wilhelmshafen
Ergebnisse|Verluste: 0|Versenkte Schiffe: 8|Zerstörte Flugzeuge: 0|Versenkte Tonnage: 120271 Tonnen

Bad times for the RN...

[dfscott]

Thanks, all, for the tips! I finished my 6th cruise last night and came home with fuel to spare and no eels and bagged over 40K of merchants. So it looks like I'm starting to get the hang of this!

Two questions:

1) I ran into a huge convoy made up of about 20 merchants and 3 warships. I tried to get their speed via hydrophone contacts, but there were too many to keep straight. I eventually just eyeballed their course, popped up ahead of them, and launched a 4-eel salvo, which got me two. I'm not sure what the best strategy is with a group that size where you also have to look out for the warships?

2) I've started another patrol where I ran into 3 unescorted French merchants traveling in a line (Two large merchants led by a Granville). After stewing over the best way to take them, I decided to take the sure shot from abeam. I put 1 into the trailing ship, two into the middle one to make sure of the kill, and threw a token one at the Granville in the front. None were sunk outright, but the middle one was crippled badly. I elected to ignore him for now, assuming I could come back and get him with my guns. So, I spin about for a stern tube shot on the other large merchant. I hit with it although not a good shot (in my excitement, I forgot to open the tube doors!). As I'm surfacing to finish him with the deck gun, I get the cheering and see the other merchant breaking up. However, I don't get the shipwreck image on the screen. Does that mean I didn't get credit for him? I wasn't very far away from him (no more than 5 km). Should I have finished him off right away and then chased the others down?

[KL-alfman]

Thanks, all, for the tips! I finished my 6th cruise last night and came home with fuel to spare and no eels and bagged over 40K of merchants. So it looks like I'm starting to get the hang of this!

Two questions:

1) I ran into a huge convoy made up of about 20 merchants and 3 warships. I tried to get their speed via hydrophone contacts, but there were too many to keep straight. I eventually just eyeballed their course, popped up ahead of them, and launched a 4-eel salvo, which got me two. I'm not sure what the best strategy is with a group that size where you also have to look out for the warships?

2) I've started another patrol where I ran into 3 unescorted French merchants traveling in a line (Two large merchants led by a Granville). After stewing over the best way to take them, I decided to take the sure shot from abeam. I put 1 into the trailing ship, two into the middle one to make sure of the kill, and threw a token one at the Granville in the front. None were sunk outright, but the middle one was crippled badly. I elected to ignore him for now, assuming I could come back and get him with my guns. So, I spin about for a stern tube shot on the other large merchant. I hit with it although not a good shot (in my excitement, I forgot to open the tube doors!). As I'm surfacing to finish him with the deck gun, I get the cheering and see the other merchant breaking up. However, I don't get the shipwreck image on the screen. Does that mean I didn't get credit for him? I wasn't very far away from him (no more than 5 km). Should I have finished him off right away and then chased the others down?


@ 1) for me it's important to track the nearest lane for a certain time (on the edge of visual contact!). this reveals speed, course and distance of the column I like to attack.

@ 2) shipwreck symbols show randomly ....
always check your patrol-log (hitting "k") where you can verify your successes.

[frau kaleun]

@ 2) shipwreck symbols show randomly ....
always check your patrol-log (hitting "k") where you can verify your successes.

Yep, I've had ships I hit go down right in front of me and the "sunk ship" icon never showed up on the map. But as long as it's recorded in the patrol log in-game, I always get credit for it when the patrol is over.

[Jimbuna]

You can only be certain the 'kill' has been registered to your account when the game engine recognises said accomplishment and it acknowledges the fact via the message "she's going down".

[dfscott]

@ 2) shipwreck symbols show randomly ....
always check your patrol-log (hitting "k") where you can verify your successes.

Ah, thanks -- I didn't realize you could get to the patrol log before the end of the mission. That's good to know!

You can only be certain the 'kill' has been registered to your account when the game engine recognises said accomplishment and it acknowledges the fact via the message "she's going down".

Sometimes I see that message and other times I don't. It seems to have to do with whether or not the Navigator position is occupied?

[frau kaleun]

I believe the navigator is the the one who makes that announcement in-game, so probably yeah, if there's no one at his post, you won't get the message.

There should always be officers at the CE and NA stations in the control room IMO, too many important things get done or reported through them to have those posts unoccupied.