First post-war patrol with GWX

[dfscott]

Ok, I've started a new career for the first time under GWX3. I've also tossed in a few mods for flavor (and one for cheating, but that's a different story). However, I have a few questions (again). For reference, I'm using GWX3 and SH3 commander with the GWX3 mod.

1. I'm using the SH3 cmdr realistic crew option. However, I noticed it doesn't fill all the slots on my VIIB. Specifically, I'm an officer short (which is a pain since I don't have a officer qualified on the engines - I get "not enough crew" messages a lot, even when the compartment is full). Is it "legal" to add another officer and/or PO, or would this be considered cheating?

2. I'm using both the Integrated Orders mod as well as the WB's Mid-patrol radio orders. However, other than providing a little extra flavor, I can't see that they actually have any game impact. I'll occasionally get info about convoys in certain areas, but locations are given in lat/long and I can't figure out how to do the conversions.

3. My hydrophone seems MUCH worse in GWX than stock SH3 -- is this by design? In my first patrol, I didn't have anyone qualified to run it, but now I do have one PO qualified, but he seems to be hit and miss.

4. I've given up on gray targets. I know it's not realistic, but it drives me crazy spending 30 minutes getting all lined up for a nice shot and finding out he's not an enemy. After about 4 in a row, it's stops being fun. And it also seems to completely eliminate any night hunting. Maybe my eyes are just bad, but I can't tell one flag from another in the dark.

5. Recognizing targets -- I'm thinking this is just a matter of practice, no? For example, I constantly confuse the Liberty and the C2 Cargo, particularly when I'm not directly abeam. Of course, it's not really an issue since a merchant is a merchant and I don't really care about range when I'm making my standard 90 AOB shot with impact pistols, but if I ever use mags, I'd need to know the draft. Any tips here?

6. Magic Ship ID - I've noticed that the scope magically identifies a broad category of ship simply by placing the crosshairs on it (coastal merchant, cargo, etc.). I can't imagine that the scope would have that built-in, so it seem like a bit if a cheat. Am I missing something? If not, is there a way to turn that off?

[Weiss Pinguin]

1) I usually just fill up any slots that I need filled, and then maybe a few extra to assign to Damage Control. I also use the 'realistic' crew option with SH3C, and as far as I can tell (I may be wrong) what it mostly does is assign different qualifications to the crew you start with.

2) Most of those messages are there just to add flavor, and you most likely won't find anything at the locations they specify, so don't bother trying to work out the coordinates given. Any actual contact reports will come with a map marker. (If you play with Map Contacts on, that is)

3) IIRC, yes. It should be noted that the AI won't always detect another ship at the edge of its range, and sometimes they won't report a contact until it's well inside the listening range of your hydrophones, even if you the player can hear it.

4) There's a mod that brightens the flags (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=152479&highlight=flags), and one that restores the contact colors (http://www.filefront.com/13913010/GWX-Contact_Color.7z). Also note that GWX turns down the brightness at night by a good deal, so you're not the only one burning their eyes out identifying flags.

5) Practice, practice, practice, basically. Sometimes I have to pause the game and spend a little time comparing silhouettes in the ship manual. I justify it as the officers all working to identify the target. ;)

6) I forgot what file you have to edit (It's really just a simple fix using a text editor), but you can replace the names of the ship categories with the '-' that the notebook lists when you're not looking at anything. Someone else should know what file to look at.

Hopefully this helps some, and welcome to the brave new world of GWX :arrgh!:

[maillemaker]

4. I've given up on gray targets. I know it's not realistic, but it drives me crazy spending 30 minutes getting all lined up for a nice shot and finding out he's not an enemy. After about 4 in a row, it's stops being fun. And it also seems to completely eliminate any night hunting. Maybe my eyes are just bad, but I can't tell one flag from another in the dark.

My rule of thumb is simple: If it's running without lights and it is near England it's probably a good target. I've only sunk a neutral once by mistake.

5. Recognizing targets -- I'm thinking this is just a matter of practice, no? For example, I constantly confuse the Liberty and the C2 Cargo, particularly when I'm not directly abeam. Of course, it's not really an issue since a merchant is a merchant and I don't really care about range when I'm making my standard 90 AOB shot with impact pistols, but if I ever use mags, I'd need to know the draft. Any tips here?

Since I turned on manual targeting I've had to manually ID ships to determine their length, to determine their speed. You do eventually start to recognize them. Otherwise, you just hit PAUSE and thumb through the recognition manual.

6. Magic Ship ID - I've noticed that the scope magically identifies a broad category of ship simply by placing the crosshairs on it (coastal merchant, cargo, etc.). I can't imagine that the scope would have that built-in, so it seem like a bit if a cheat. Am I missing something? If not, is there a way to turn that off?If you have manual targeting enabled, the scope will simply state that it is a "cargo ship", or "destroyer", or "patrol craft", or "battleship". It is generic, and would be obvious to a u-boat captain (and is obvious to me, too).

If you want a more specific identification, in order to determine depth of keel, or length of ship, you will have to do it via the recognition manual.

Steve

[frau kaleun]

1. I'm using the SH3 cmdr realistic crew option. However, I noticed it doesn't fill all the slots on my VIIB. Specifically, I'm an officer short (which is a pain since I don't have a officer qualified on the engines - I get "not enough crew" messages a lot, even when the compartment is full). Is it "legal" to add another officer and/or PO, or would this be considered cheating?

IMO it's not cheating, altho I don't know how closely the slots allowed for each type of boat mirror how large a crew it was actually possible to stuff into them in RL (or what the typical crew allocation might have been in RL for each boat at any given time during the war). If one considers historical inaccuracy "cheating" then it might be an issue depending on the info available regarding the latter. In terms of "cheating" the game, if the game allows you a given crew size I don't see how it can be called cheating in that sense to take advantage of it. The game does, after all, deduct from your renown if you "enlist" experienced crewmembers to supplement what it or Commander gives you by default, so they aren't just free for the taking.

2. I'm using both the Integrated Orders mod as well as the WB's Mid-patrol radio orders. However, other than providing a little extra flavor, I can't see that they actually have any game impact. I'll occasionally get info about convoys in certain areas, but locations are given in lat/long and I can't figure out how to do the conversions.

The "orders" in Integrated Orders doesn't have to do with the orders you get before or during a patrol from BdU - it has to do with the number of "orders" you can issue to your crew just by clicking on the officer icons. IIRC a lot of them are only available via the keyboard without this mod enabled.

Mid-Patrol Radio Orders will reply to your radio reports with new orders to patrol an additional grid before returning to base, but I think that's all it does - at least it didn't do anything more than that when I was using it but that was only for a few patrols very early in the war. From what I can tell it's mostly an immersion thing for folks who prefer getting specific orders during their patrols instead of staying in the original assigned grid indefinitely or just taking off for somewhere else at their own discretion.

3. My hydrophone seems MUCH worse in GWX than stock SH3 -- is this by design? In my first patrol, I didn't have anyone qualified to run it, but now I do have one PO qualified, but he seems to be hit and miss.

I can't say for sure but if this is the case (I didn't play enough to really notice) I'd be willing to bet that the accuracy/sensitivity/whatever of the hydrophones and other ships' sensors may have been toned down a bit in GWX to bring them more in line with what one could really expect from that technology in RL.

4. I've given up on gray targets. I know it's not realistic, but it drives me crazy spending 30 minutes getting all lined up for a nice shot and finding out he's not an enemy. After about 4 in a row, it's stops being fun. And it also seems to completely eliminate any night hunting. Maybe my eyes are just bad, but I can't tell one flag from another in the dark.

The GWX Contacts Color mod will put the enemy/neutral/friendly colors back into the game when contacts appear on the navmap. It will also add the "wake tail" showing their course direction. IIRC there's also a mod that gives you one back but not the other but I can't for the life of me remember whether it's the colors or the tails that you get back with that one. Someone else can probably elaborate.

There's also a "flags enlighten" mod that may help with making flags easier to identify if you choose not to add the colors back in to sort the enemies from the friendlies that way.

5. Recognizing targets -- I'm thinking this is just a matter of practice, no? For example, I constantly confuse the Liberty and the C2 Cargo, particularly when I'm not directly abeam. Of course, it's not really an issue since a merchant is a merchant and I don't really care about range when I'm making my standard 90 AOB shot with impact pistols, but if I ever use mags, I'd need to know the draft. Any tips here?

6. Magic Ship ID - I've noticed that the scope magically identifies a broad category of ship simply by placing the crosshairs on it (coastal merchant, cargo, etc.). I can't imagine that the scope would have that built-in, so it seem like a bit if a cheat. Am I missing something? If not, is there a way to turn that off?

The ID that shows up on the notepad when you look at a potential target through the 'scope is part of the game's assisted targeting which can be turned off in the 'Change Realism' screen before you load the game. I'm still using it, however, so I can't comment on IDing ships without it. :D

[Weiss Pinguin]

6. Magic Ship ID - I've noticed that the scope magically identifies a broad category of ship simply by placing the crosshairs on it (coastal merchant, cargo, etc.). I can't imagine that the scope would have that built-in, so it seem like a bit if a cheat. Am I missing something? If not, is there a way to turn that off?
Okay, I think I have it. I assume you're talking about the way the notepad lists what class the ship you've targeted is, until you identify it?

To get rid of that (the notepad listing the ship's class), go to your game folder, -> data -> Roster, then open up English.cfg (or French/German, whatever language you use) and starting from ';Warships' and going down replace the names with "-" (Like so (http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/2726/examplepl.jpg)) If there's a certain category you want to keep then leave it alone. (E.g., I still have Icebergs listed)


If that's not what you were talking about, though, then I have no idea. :p2:

[dfscott]

Thanks, all.

I've downloaded a hard-copy of the ship recognition manual so I can pause and peruse at my leisure. As someone said, one person with more time == multiple people with less time.

I'll also give the flags enlighten mod a try. I really want to play with gray, wake-less targets -- the hunt is more than just targeting IMO.

Finally, thanks for the info on Integrated Orders, frau kaleun -- I didn't realize that it had nothing to do with radio messages! :doh:

[Jimbuna]

Integrated Orders: Pages 32-35 of the GWX Manual.

[dfscott]

Integrated Orders: Pages 32-35 of the GWX Manual.

Doh! And I'm usually good about reading the manual! :oops:

I think the 644 pages intimidated me a bit and I couldn't wait to get playing -- skimming FTW!

BTW, as an update: I've gone back and removed the tails and the color coding. I found an interesting post that shows how to use the course bearing indicated to intercept. Now that I'm learning how to use the hydrophone a bit better, I'm having no trouble determining bearing.

And the flag illumination mod has made it so I can identify ships now. Also, I didn't realize you could thumb through the recognition manual in pause mode! I was trying to flip through it really fast in the 30-40 seconds I had before he crossed my bow!

Sadly, although I managed to sink 6 ships in my last patrol, I only netted about 10K tons. I also learned that it's a dumb idea (on so many levels!) to try and torpedo a trawler in stormy weather. :dead:

Next patrol, I think I'll give the Hitman GUI a spin...

[Jimbuna]

Doh! And I'm usually good about reading the manual! :oops:

I think the 644 pages intimidated me a bit and I couldn't wait to get playing -- skimming FTW!

BTW, as an update: I've gone back and removed the tails and the color coding. I found an interesting post that shows how to use the course bearing indicated to intercept. Now that I'm learning how to use the hydrophone a bit better, I'm having no trouble determining bearing.

And the flag illumination mod has made it so I can identify ships now. Also, I didn't realize you could thumb through the recognition manual in pause mode! I was trying to flip through it really fast in the 30-40 seconds I had before he crossed my bow!

Sadly, although I managed to sink 6 ships in my last patrol, I only netted about 10K tons. I also learned that it's a dumb idea (on so many levels!) to try and torpedo a trawler in stormy weather. :dead:

Next patrol, I think I'll give the Hitman GUI a spin...

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[KL-alfman]

Next patrol, I think I'll give the Hitman GUI a spin...


pls tell me then about your experiencies.
I'd like to try it out too, but was a bit scared to some issues I haven't seen before in a GUI.

[sharkbit]

pls tell me then about your experiencies.
I'd like to try it out too, but was a bit scared to some issues I haven't seen before in a GUI.

I just started using it a few weeks ago. It takes some getting used to because it is so different. I've used the ACM v1.x for a long time with OLC's wiz-wheel, so it was pretty different.
I'm getting better at judging things by eye using hitman's gui with the help of the aids he included. I'm not to the point of selecting map contacts off, though I doubt I will ever be ready. The assisted plotting mod will probably be the closest I come to that.

Like all GUI's, there are things I love and things I don't, but I give it two thumbs up...:yeah:.
Manos GUI 3.1 is pretty good as well. It has some nice things about it. In fact, I made a mini mod to use his map tools with hitman's gui.

:)

[dfscott]

pls tell me then about your experiencies.
I'd like to try it out too, but was a bit scared to some issues I haven't seen before in a GUI.

I didn't have any issues, but I did take some notes on my experiences. A couple things to keep in mind is 1) I'm new to SH3 (note the forum join date!) and 2) I'm new to GWX3.

That said, here are my general impressions (about halfway through a patrol):

- It takes a while to figure out where to click the stopwatch. (It's apparently a known issue but he's having trouble fixing it.) It also took me some time to get used to the stopwatch appearance. My screen isn't very large and at first I had trouble telling the difference beween 2 and 3 minutes on the small hand, particularly the draggable one that has a simulated glare effect. I'm adjusting to this fairly quickly, however.

- Tab doesn't seem to work to zoom the optics. I think there's a comment in the manual about this, but just wanted to mention it. The wheel on the mouse works fine however.

- Getting used to the new locations of the TDC gauges on the periscope and UZO took a while. I don't read German, so I kept having to refer to the manual, particularly to find the torpedo bearing (not sure why I couldn't remember that one!). However, I imagine that more experienced SH3 players would already have internalized a lot of this, so I can't really call that a problem.

- Even after reading the Hitman GUI manual several times and doing several forum searches, I can't for the life of me figure out how to use the triangle plotting tool. I haven't needed it since I use the other tools, but I feel like I might be missing something that could make my life easier. If anyone can point me to a step-by-step example of how to use it, I would be eternally grateful.

Overall, here are what I feel are the overall pros and cons to this point:

Pros:
- The extra-large depth gauge is great. Not only is it easier to use, but there's also the aesthetic value of being able to request 40 meters instead of having to ask for 38 or 41 because you can't click accurately enough.

- I absolutely love the large heading gauge. The slide-out one for GWX was a huge improvement over stock, but IMO, this one improves GWX by the same amount. It's nice to be able to click, hold, and slide it to exactly the heading you want. Only when you release it, does the command take place (I think the others work the same way, but it's more useful with this version since you can actually see what you're doing!) And again, the aesthetic of the rotating inner plate is awesome looking!

- Optics are excellent. However, I didn't notice that much different between the observation scope and the attack scope at night. There was a crescent moon out and the visibility was "moderate", so maybe it needs to be darker? I don't worry about range at this point (90 AOB for all my shots), so I can't comment on using it to find range.

- Having the TDC right at your optics are nice. I'd gotten pretty good about flipping back and forth, but being able to switch from manual to automatic and make adjustments right there at scope is really handy.

Cons:
- There seems to be a lot more clicking required to get to the various TDC functions at the periscope/UZO stations. There doesn't appear to be any way to go directly from one display to the next -- you have to click click "Zeiss" to exit the current panel and then click the panel you want.

- Having torpedo depth on a separate panel bugs me. Maybe most people don't change it that much, but I like to give the board a quick review before I fire, and it's an extra step I have to take. I like it better at the TDC station where I can see everything at once. This is likely an issue with screen space, so I'm not sure what to do about it.

- Similar to the above, getting to the stop watch takes some clicking. On stock and GWX, I would typically mark the map, hit F3 to go to the scope, and then click the stopwatch to start timing. With this setup, I have to mark the map, hit F3 to go to the scope, click Zeiss to close whatever display I have up (it always seems to be something other than the stopwatch!), then click the stopwatch button to bring up the stopwatch, and then click the stopwatch to start timing.

- Both the above I think I can get used to, but the one that may be a deal-breaker for me is the whiz wheel. As nice as it is, it seems to come flying out at the drop of a hat and tends to cover a huge part of the screen when it does. I also seem to hit it at the most inopportune times, (such as when I'm trying to do some last minute tweaking to the TDC). I really wish it came out via a button like the enlarged gauges.

At this point, the pros outweigh the cons by a large margin, although if I could figure out a way to disable the whiz wheel, my opinion of this GUI would go up even more! Again, I'm only halfway through a patrol, so I may change my mind after a few more attack runs.

[sharkbit]

@dfscott:
You should post your above thread in hitman's gui thread in the mods section. I'd bet he would be interested in your detailed feedback.

:)

[KL-alfman]

hmm, thx to both of you for the detailed anwers.
as sharkbit mentioned having so much to estimate by eye's estimation only was a bit intimidating to me.

I mostly (and successfully) use the "fast 90AOB"-method.
so range is not that important, but when attacking convoys you sooner or later have to aim at 70-80AOB too. and there's where exact range-data comes into play.
and I don't like the nav-map to use for that calculations .....

and yes, you're right.
Manos nav-map tools are really highly adequate.

[dfscott]

@dfscott:
You should post your above thread in hitman's gui thread in the mods section. I'd bet he would be interested in your detailed feedback.

:)

Good Idea! I'll do that.

[KL-alfman]

Good Idea! I'll do that.


that's fine!
thx dfscott :03:
if any, modders like to get in-game experiencies with their mods. sometimes these even lead to improving former mods .....

[dfscott]

Wow -- I posted over there and immediately got feedback from hitman. I'll link to the thread rather than repost, but he did show me how to disable the wizwheel, which should fix my biggest issue for now.

http://174.123.69.202/~subsimc/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1376382#post1376382