What's so great?

[ERPP8]

I don't see why people love SHIII soooooo much.:hmmm:


The bad graphics and simplicity make it seem pretty boring.

[Bothersome]

Mostly because it comes off as an actual simulation of the situation that was at 1939 to 1945.

If there was a nuclear power station simulator that only had one text screen of a bunch of numbers that represented the actual predicted happening of the internal states within that unit, versus a game where you only had two graphical bars that represented demand and the other, power output... In the former, you had to controll all known aspects to make success. Whereas in the latter, you just had to make sure you didn't over push the reactor output. The former states "you are dead" if it blows and the latter shows a grand super mushroom cloud going off with a city burning and people screaming as they run down the street... Which would you play. And your answer will probably say a lot about you.

[Task Force]

ya know, I would probably play that nuke power plant sim.

Games just arnt graphics, and IMO SH3 can look great with mods. It also feels more realistic than 5.

[Immelman]

I don't see why people love SHIII soooooo much.
The bad graphics and simplicity make it seem pretty boring.

What realism level are you playing with?? You obviously haven't experienced 100% realism or some mods such as GWX or NYGM. Give that a try and then come and tell me all about the simplicity.

Graphics I will not argue with you because honestly I don't give a crap about them to me its about realism, strategy and re-playability and that SH3 has got in spades. If these factors are not part of what you are looking for then you are playing the wrong game friend. This is after all a U-Boat SIMULATION game.

[ERPP8]

To me SHIII seems boring, SHIV WAS boring and SHV is the best game ever made!!!

[ERPP8]

What realism level are you playing with?? You obviously haven't experienced 100% realism or some mods such as GWX or NYGM. Give that a try and then come and tell me all about the simplicity.

Graphics I will not argue with you because honestly I don't give a crap about them to me its about realism and re-playability and that SH3 has got in spades.
I've never played it, that's why I'm asking.

[Lord_magerius]

To me SHIII seems boring, SHIV WAS boring and SHV is the best game ever made!!!

*facepalm*

[Bothersome]

To me SHIII seems boring, SHIV WAS boring and SHV is the best game ever made!!!

We're not say you're wrong. After all it's your opinion.

You asked so we're just saying that we all don't need fancy graphics to engage our imaginations. We see the actual awsomeness of what happened in our heads.

Gee, I may be in need of help, now that I think about it. Too much SH3?? Naaa. :hmmm:

[Immelman]

I've never played it, that's why I'm asking.

If you haven't even played it what exactly are you basing your judgment on???

[sergei]

As much as I admire certain technical aspects of SH5, it seems to be missing something (for me).

SH3's got soul.

[ERPP8]

We're not say you're wrong. After all it's your opinion.

You asked so we're just saying that we all don't need fancy graphics to engage our imaginations. We see the actual awsomeness of what happened in our heads.

Gee, I may be in need of help, now that I think about it. Too much SH3?? Naaa. :hmmm:
The reason I'm asking is because I've only seen one gameplay video and a few screenshots that were mostly the same.

[Fozzy22]

I think the fact that SH3 actually WORKS as a sub sim could be a main selling point. I'm getting the feeling you might be comparing it to SH5 due to you're comments on graphics, am I right? Well it really isn't that bad and you get used to it very quickly. I have forgotten about SH5 because I'm having so much fun on SH3. Considering SH5 got a PC Zone score of 49/100 when it's predicessor SH4 got 82/100 shows how it should have never been released when it did.

Enjoy SH5 if you like it but it's just not as good as SH3. :03:

Edit: If you've never played it how can you even comment? Never judge a book by it's cover....or a couple of screenshots. lol :nope:

[Bothersome]

Well, a game play video isn't going to represent the game very much. It will only represent the interface and the graphics. Which we all admit isn't as fancy as SH5. But there is more to the game than fancy graphics.

Like historical accuracy and accurate probabilities for success or failure.

Everybody likes pretty graphics and fancy explosions. But after you've seen them 20 times, you kind of want to get back to the numbers of the simulation and get real as possible.

[ERPP8]

I think the fact that SH3 actually WORKS as a sub sim could be a main selling point. I'm getting the feeling you might be comparing it to SH5 due to you're comments on graphics, am I right? Well it really isn't that bad and you get used to it very quickly. I have forgotten about SH5 because I'm having so much fun on SH3. Considering SH5 got a PC Zone score of 49/100 when it's predicessor SH4 got 82/100 shows how it should have never been released when it did.

Enjoy SH5 if you like it but it's just not as good as SH3. :03:
Graphics is all I really know about it so that's all I have to use.

[Lord_magerius]

Imagine setting up a shot on a random ship in a convoy. Suddenly you look to your left and you see a destroyer closing in.
Do you
A) dive to 160m and rig for silent running
B) Fire the torp and then try and make a run for it
C) Crash to desktop

If you answered C then you will have had the exact experience I have had playing SH5 :damn:

[sergei]

Don't get me wrong.
I like flashy graphics as much as the next guy.

But the thing that will keep me playing a game, is the gameplay experience.

Which is not something you can easily judge from a quick video.

[flag4]

I don't see why people love SHIII soooooo much.:hmmm:


The bad graphics and simplicity make it seem pretty boring.

for me, it isnt just the game. i like to go to the books, the history, the photographs - documentaries: but it is the books that do it for me. to read about the people who fought and died. the convoys of merchantmen the u boats and crews - their stories. THEN, i come to the game and immerse myself in the history a little more and its CHUFFIN' brilliant:yep:

SH5 can wait. i dont have the money to upgrade anyhow. and also there are some quite beautifull mods out there for SH3. they are simply brilliant pieces of work. Hell, i was reading about Carl Zeiss Lens's the other day, thanks to HITMANS optical mod-periscopethingy.

all the time and effort these Kaleuns put into their mods - they are artists!!!

so, if you cant find something of interest in SH3-World, then i guess it aint for you. but if you look below the surface there is a lot.

[tomfon]

I've never played it, that's why I'm asking.

:hmmm:

:shifty:

[STEED]

The GWX team made a good game into a bloody great game and for that I am pleased to play SH3, well done guys. :yeah:

[Fozzy22]

Silent Hunter 3
http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/sim/silenthunteriii/review.html?tag=tabs%3Breviews
8.9/10
The Good


Beautiful to behold
Simulation elements complement gameplay
Compelling dynamic campaign
Packed with detail
More games need a gramophone.
The Bad




Higher resolutions would be nice
Where are the wolf packs?
Save-game system is annoying.

Silent Hunter 5 (Consider this is 4-5ish years after SH3)
http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/sim/silenthunter5/review.html?tag=tabs%3Breviews
5.0/10

The Good (not a long list is it?)


Deep, immersive sub sim (really?)
Tense combat that can really suck you in. (If the aircraft or destroyers can be bothered as the AI is so bad)
The Bad (Note this list pretty much includes the core of the game)




Packed with bugs and design flaws
Worthless in-game tutorial and manual
Sub captain interface is bothersome and tedious
Performance hog that drags even the best systems to low frame rates
Getting into online games is a significant challenge.

.....I rest my case! :arrgh!:

[Platapus]

I've never played it, that's why I'm asking.


Well we like SH3 because we have played it. :03:

I can understand that if you have never played SH3, you don't have any experiences to base your opinion on.

SH3 is not for everyone. Especially on the harder realism settings.

I don't even think SH3 and SH5 are in competition with each other. There are so many differences between the game, one should not have to choose between them.

[KL-alfman]

To me SHIII seems boring, SHIV WAS boring and SHV is the best game ever made!!!


if this is your opinion, I'm alright with it.
but don't expect too many people agreeing with you. :D

funny thing is, in the SH5-board many people refuse to compare SH5 with SH3 because "it seems unfair because SH3 has 5years of modding in it".

so pls tell me, ERPP, do you really like to get anwers or did you just stop here to provoke? :hmmm:


edit: congrats, Platapus, for your 5000th!!!!

[ERPP8]

Silent Hunter 3
http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/sim/silenthunteriii/review.html?tag=tabs%3Breviews
8.9/10
The Good


Beautiful to behold
Simulation elements complement gameplay
Compelling dynamic campaign
Packed with detail
More games need a gramophone.

The Bad




Higher resolutions would be nice
Where are the wolf packs?
Save-game system is annoying.

Silent Hunter 5 (Consider this is 4-5ish years after SH3)
http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/sim/silenthunter5/review.html?tag=tabs%3Breviews
5.0/10

The Good (not a long list is it?)


Deep, immersive sub sim (really?)
Tense combat that can really suck you in. (If the aircraft or destroyers can be bothered as the AI is so bad)

The Bad (Note this list pretty much includes the core of the game)




Packed with bugs and design flaws
Worthless in-game tutorial and manual
Sub captain interface is bothersome and tedious
Performance hog that drags even the best systems to low frame rates
Getting into online games is a significant challenge.

.....I rest my case! :arrgh!:
I respect your opinion but here's my list


SHV
The good:
Addicting campaign
Great graphics
Amazing realism
Gets me to really understand what's happening unlike SHIV


The bad:
Several bugs but most are minor
Few U-Boat Models
Low (but avoidable) framerate

[Platapus]

i
edit: congrats, Platapus, for your 5000th!!!!

Holy crap! That's a lot of posts saying practically nothing!!

Ok, so now I have 5,000 posts, when do the chicks start likin me?

:D

[ERPP8]

if this is your opinion, I'm alright with it.
but don't expect too many people agreeing with you. :D

funny thing is, in the SH5-board many people refuse to compare SH5 with SH3 because "it seems unfair because SH3 has 5years of modding in it".

so pls tell me, ERPP, do you really like to get anwers or did you just stop here to provoke? :hmmm:


edit: congrats, Platapus, for your 5000th!!!!
A little of both.

But what I'm seeing it that all people are doing is commenting on my opinion.
Nobody is giving a straight answer.

[Fozzy22]

I respect your opinion but here's my list


SHV
The good:
Addicting campaign
Great graphics
Amazing realism
Gets me to really understand what's happening unlike SHIV


The bad:
Several bugs but most are minor
Few U-Boat Models
Low (but avoidable) framerate


Fair doo's. :) I do think SH5 has a lot of potential and I know the modders are hard at work and they can really work their magic. I own SH5 so in time will go back to see how they have made it playable. I also agree with the above comments about SH3 having many years of mods to make it even better so a comparison right now is certainly difficult. I'm going on it's state on release more than anything.

For me SH3 is a bit more realistic to how U-boat combat was and the dynamic campaign is more engaging. I never did understand why 5 went with "sink this many ships" to progress the story. :doh:

[KL-alfman]

A little of both.

But what I'm seeing it that all people are doing is commenting on my opinion.
Nobody is giving a straight answer.



:06:

stock SH3: played the game for over a year, only then I found out of SubSim and mods and more
stock SH5: hasn't even a compass

nuff said?

[Exakt]

Here is my opinion:

SH3 is better than the current state that SH5 is;

Good points
SH3:
-Full war, 1939 to 1945
-A whole selection of boats.
-Far more mods right now available (such GWX3, which is a must have).
-Stock, SH3 feels more real than SH5
-"True" dynamic campaign.
-Even with a 5 yrs old engine, graphics are still on part of some newer titles (except for the stock resolution)
-Can work on almost any PC (I recently had to revert to an ATI X1650Pro and it can run this game with GWX with hardly a stutter).
-Digital copies without StarForce or other dreadful DRM.
-Good tutorials.

SH5:
-Nice graphic
-Able to walk the entire boat.

Now the bad:
SH3:
-Stock has bugs (most of them corrected with mods)
-If you have an original DVD, (just like me) you have to deal with StarForce, which can be circumvated.
-Graphics are starting to show their age.
-No Wolfpacks.

SH5:
-Interface is cumbersome and non-intuitive.
-Have to practically walk to each station to do something.
-Awful implementation of RPG-style gameplay
-A resource hog even on my previous video card.
-Awful DRM.
-Lots of bugs (such as if you encounter a friendly sub, their torpedoes will just get out of the sub and then sink to the bottom).
-Still no Wolfpacks.
-Campaign ends before the end of the war (watch for an expansion I'm sure).
-Useless tutorial.
-Limited to a boat (the VII series).
-AI is clueless.

Personally, I gave up on SH5 for all the bad points I have stated above.
SH3 is still keeping me hooked.

And just to tell you my story with SH3, I bought it about 4 years ago, installed it, played for about 20 mins and then shelved it for about 3.5 years. Reinstalled earlier this year (or late last year, can't really remember the exaKt date) and now I am deeply "committed" to it. The last few games that got me hook like this were the Pre-Vegas Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon (the first one plus its expansions, not the GRAW stuff), Dawn of War and its expansions and FreeSpace 2 (which the SDK has been released about a decade ago and now it could compete with a lot of space sim games of today).

[krashkart]

I think the main reason why there are so many SH3 fans is because of the maturity of the mods that have been released for it. It's like a good stew: tastes better after it's been in the fridge overnight because the flavors have had time to develop.

My personal take on SH3, primarily, is that it will actually run on the machine I own. SHIV's requirements would probably give me some serious migraines, and SHV? Forget it - there's no way my system could handle it.

[Snestorm]

Eye Candy rates at the bottom of my list, and seems to be all that SH5 offers, so it's SH3 for me.

PS
I love my IXB!
And the possability of the whole war.

[nemo7]

A little of both.

But what I'm seeing it that all people are doing is commenting on my opinion.
Nobody is giving a straight answer.

That's funny. You seek for a straight answer, BUT you have already a negative opinion WITHOUT playing (even once) the game! Do yourself a favor. Try SH3+GWX3.0+mods and then come again to discuss it. Otherwise, stay with Ubisoft's DRM-SHV and be happy...:nope:

[flakmonkey]

Simply put sh3+supermod is the most complete uboat simulator out there. Its had five years of loving care and attention by modders to mould it into what it is today.
Compared to the only other option for u-boat guys (shv) it has the more exacting realism, it has the wider variety of merchant traffic, a truely dynamic campaign and to top it all apps like sh3 commander to further sweeten the experience.
In comparisson shv feels more like Call of Duty: Battle of the Atlantic, its very pretty but not really a nuts & bolts simulator....yet!

[RConch]

That's funny. You seek for a straight answer, BUT you have already a negative opinion WITHOUT playing (even once) the game! Do yourself a favor. Try SH3+GWX3.0+mods and then come again to discuss it. Otherwise, stay with Ubisoft's DRM-SHV and be happy...:nope:

This guy is just a troll and no use wasting time on him.:yep:

[Immelman]

Agreed

[Randomizer]

This guy is just a troll and no use wasting time on him.:yep:
Ditto

[Sailor Steve]

This guy is just a troll and no use wasting time on him.:yep:
I disagree, because the question of what we see versus what he has played is a valid one, to my mind anyway.

But what I'm seeing it that all people are doing is commenting on my opinion.
Nobody is giving a straight answer.
I'll do my best, without going into SH5 which I haven't played. Not a comparison, but a straight answer on the pros and cons of SH3 (and SH4).

Five years ago SH3's now-dated graphics were state-of-the-art and quite amazing to those of us who had Aces Of The Deep and SH1 to compare it to. It had a 3D interior and a crew who did things and talked to us.

That said, SH5's graphics blow it out of the water with their almost photo-realism. But comparative claims have been made about SH5's poor state at release. I said I wouldn't compare, but this is to illustrate the dev's new work and the modders art. A year or two from now SH5 may make SH3 seem like a bad dream, but now for a lot of folks SH5 itself is a nightmare. And I will have to do a little comparing, for good and for bad, just to show what SH3 is.

SH3 on release got a lot of complaints about bugs and instability. Most of the bugs were fixed by patches, but a couple still remain. But, to the SH3 experience.

When I load up SH3 I do so through SH3 Commander. The first thing I see is the name of my captain. I can choose this myself or I can let it select the name for me. I choose to start a campaign. I am asked what month of what year I would like to start the campaign in - anywhere from September 1939 to March 1940. If I choose the start of the war I am then asked which of three flotillas I would like to start in - 1st, 2nd or 7th. If I choose 1st I am based out of Kiel in a Type II 'dugout canoe' u-boat. If 2nd I'm at Wilhelmshaven in a Type VII, and if I choose 7th I'm in Kiel with a Type VII. If I wait until December I can start in the 2nd with a Type IX.

So I choose a u-boat and I look at the crew list. All of my crew members have names, and they are chosen from a list that presents a combined total of more than 1.7 billion possible names. I can run as many careers as I want and will almost certainly never see the same name twice.

Setting out on patrol I have a harbor that is not as accurate as the ones in SH5. The locations of the buildings and harbor parts are not much like the reality. SH5 is better there, but they still made some amazing gaffes, so it doesn't worry me too much. But I see all sorts of ships in my harbors, believable ships docked, coming and going. I can sail not only through the Kiel Canal, but the locks are there - at both ends. I lay out waypoints to my assigned KM grid (SH5 doesn't have any). Oh, the map in SH4 has both latitude and longitude and the KriegsMarine grids.

Anyway, If I approach an enemy convoy on the surface the escorts will certainly see me and attack. I notice that sometimes they tag-team me. One will stop dead still and listen while the other makes a depth-charge run. If I stay at silent running I stand a good chance of being nailed. If I wait until I'm under his sonar cone and go to flank speed, the other one will hear me and start his run - and he knows exactly where I am. On the other hand one of the mods in SH3 makes the depth-charge blast radii realistically small, so I can be bombed all day long and still have some chance of surviving.

A convoy can contain over 70 different types of merchants, with more being added all the time.

If I'm patrolling later in the war I might be attacked by a hunter/killer group, complete with aircraft and hedgehogs. If I'm off the American coast I might even see a K-ship - a blimp. Much to my regret, of course.

After my patrol is over and I return to base, I recieve a patrol report that tells me not only what type of ships I've sunk, but the name of each ship, what kind of cargo it was carrying, how many crew were aboard and how many of them were lost.

If I'm lucky enough to survive the war I can play all the way until May 1945, and I might even get to finish up in a type XXI u-boat.

Now a lot of this is due to mods, and in time SH5 may have those same or even better mods. SH4 is a better platform than SH3, and with more potential, and my big regret is that SH4 didn't get the same overall attention that its predecessor did.

SH5 shows more potential than either of them, and I'm looking forward to the day when the bugs are fixed (could be any day now) and the day when it is modded to the point SH3 is. But currently, with SH3 already mostly bug-free and modded nearly to perfection (and more being made every day), and SH5 still crippled with shortened war, lack of u-boat types, bugs and (yes, it has to be mentioned) DRM, which keeps some of us from playing at all, SH3 is the best all-around experience for those of us don't want to play a u-boat game but want to vicariously experience the actual Battle Of The Atlantic.

[flag4]

I disagree, because the question of what we see versus what he has played is a valid one, to my mind anyway.


I'll do my best, without going into SH5 which I haven't played. Not a comparison, but a straight answer on the pros and cons of SH3 (and SH4).

Five years ago SH3's now-dated graphics were state-of-the-art and quite amazing to those of us who had Aces Of The Deep and SH1 to compare it to. It had a 3D interior and a crew who did things and talked to us.

That said, SH5's graphics blow it out of the water with their almost photo-realism. But comparative claims have been made about SH5's poor state at release. I said I wouldn't compare, but this is to illustrate the dev's new work and the modders art. A year or two from now SH5 may make SH3 seem like a bad dream, but now for a lot of folks SH5 itself is a nightmare. And I will have to do a little comparing, for good and for bad, just to show what SH3 is.

SH3 on release got a lot of complaints about bugs and instability. Most of the bugs were fixed by patches, but a couple still remain. But, to the SH3 experience.

When I load up SH3 I do so through SH3 Commander. The first thing I see is the name of my captain. I can choose this myself or I can let it select the name for me. I choose to start a campaign. I am asked what month of what year I would like to start the campaign in - anywhere from September 1939 to March 1940. If I choose the start of the war I am then asked which of three flotillas I would like to start in - 1st, 2nd or 7th. If I choose 1st I am based out of Kiel in a Type II 'dugout canoe' u-boat. If 2nd I'm at Wilhelmshaven in a Type VII, and if I choose 7th I'm in Kiel with a Type VII. If I wait until December I can start in the 2nd with a Type IX.

So I choose a u-boat and I look at the crew list. All of my crew members have names, and they are chosen from a list that presents a combined total of more than 1.7 billion possible names. I can run as many careers as I want and will almost certainly never see the same name twice.

Setting out on patrol I have a harbor that is not as accurate as the ones in SH5. The locations of the buildings and harbor parts are not much like the reality. SH5 is better there, but they still made some amazing gaffes, so it doesn't worry me too much. But I see all sorts of ships in my harbors, believable ships docked, coming and going. I can sail not only through the Kiel Canal, but the locks are there - at both ends. I lay out waypoints to my assigned KM grid (SH5 doesn't have any). Oh, the map in SH4 has both latitude and longitude and the KriegsMarine grids.

Anyway, If I approach an enemy convoy on the surface the escorts will certainly see me and attack. I notice that sometimes they tag-team me. One will stop dead still and listen while the other makes a depth-charge run. If I stay at silent running I stand a good chance of being nailed. If I wait until I'm under his sonar cone and go to flank speed, the other one will hear me and start his run - and he knows exactly where I am. On the other hand one of the mods in SH3 makes the depth-charge blast radii realistically small, so I can be bombed all day long and still have some chance of surviving.

A convoy can contain over 70 different types of merchants, with more being added all the time.

If I'm patrolling later in the war I might be attacked by a hunter/killer group, complete with aircraft and hedgehogs. If I'm off the American coast I might even see a K-ship - a blimp. Much to my regret, of course.

After my patrol is over and I return to base, I recieve a patrol report that tells me not only what type of ships I've sunk, but the name of each ship, what kind of cargo it was carrying, how many crew were aboard and how many of them were lost.

If I'm lucky enough to survive the war I can play all the way until May 1945, and I might even get to finish up in a type XXI u-boat.

Now a lot of this is due to mods, and in time SH5 may have those same or even better mods. SH4 is a better platform than SH3, and with more potential, and my big regret is that SH4 didn't get the same overall attention that its predecessor did.

SH5 shows more potential than either of them, and I'm looking forward to the day when the bugs are fixed (could be any day now) and the day when it is modded to the point SH3 is. But currently, with SH3 already mostly bug-free and modded nearly to perfection (and more being made every day), and SH5 still crippled with shortened war, lack of u-boat types, bugs and (yes, it has to be mentioned) DRM, which keeps some of us from playing at all, SH3 is the best all-around experience for those of us don't want to play a u-boat game but want to vicariously experience the actual Battle Of The Atlantic.


Sailor Steve, this should be pinned to the front door of SH 3, 4 & 5. :up:

(whish i had written it!)

[ERPP8]

That's funny. You seek for a straight answer, BUT you have already a negative opinion WITHOUT playing (even once) the game! Do yourself a favor. Try SH3+GWX3.0+mods and then come again to discuss it. Otherwise, stay with Ubisoft's DRM-SHV and be happy...:nope:
I have no opinion about SHIII, just first impressions.

[Hitman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by nemo7 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images_acpb/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1370419#post1370419)
That's funny. You seek for a straight answer, BUT you have already a negative opinion WITHOUT playing (even once) the game! Do yourself a favor. Try SH3+GWX3.0+mods and then come again to discuss it. Otherwise, stay with Ubisoft's DRM-SHV and be happy...:nope:

This guy is just a troll and no use wasting time on him.:yep:


Well, actually it certainly is a bit hard, BUT Nemo7 has a point. The OP made a provocative first post -that can't be denied, this is the forum for SH3 lovers after all- and what Nemo said is not mindless. You need to play the game, specially with mods, to get a good idea of what it is like, and then you might come here to discuss.

I don't see any infraction here. Keep the debate going, gentlemen :salute:

[ERPP8]

This guy is just a troll and no use wasting time on him.:yep:
Forum rules state:
You may have noticed other Internet forums are filled with aggression, insults, and general immaturity. Check that at the door hereI think that qualifies as an insult

[ERPP8]

Well, actually it certainly is a bit hard, BUT Nemo7 has a point. The OP made a provocative first post -that can't be denied, this is the forum for SH3 lovers after all- and what Nemo said is not mindless. You need to play the game, specially with mods, to get a good idea of what it is like, and then you might come here to discuss.

I don't see any infraction here. Keep the debate going, gentlemen :salute:
This guy is just a troll and no use wasting time on himInsults get you an infraction
Also this is a free country and anyone can post in it.

[Exakt]

Insults get you an infraction
Also this is a free country and anyone can post in it.

Well first of all, the Internet is not bound by any territorial limits, such as countries. The only thing that countries can do is restrict some websites due to having content which is illegal in their own. Now, that said, the US can't close down nor limit access to a website for something as a freelance news site, just like many other western countries (due to Freedom of Speech), but can limit access to site that can get in violations of the copyright acts, such as IsoHunt. In Canada, it is slightly different, you can download copyrighted assets, as long as you don't have a commercial purpose, which means I can download anything as long as I don't:
a)Sell it and/or;
b)Distribute it and or;
c)Present the content in a social event.

But also notice that your rights end where the rights of another person begin. So yes, you can post about almost anything, as long as it doesn't breach:
a)The rights of another person;
b)The rules set by the community.

Thank you for attending "Internet Laws 101".

[nemo7]

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."


Save your fire buddy...:nope:

[ERPP8]

Still no straight answers.
All I'm getting is "SHIII + GWX + FHF +ARR +STAD" crap


You all see I've never played this game.

Could I have a simple answer in English.


Also think and tell me "Was the SHIII stock campaign as addictive as the SHV one?"

[Exakt]

Still no straight answers.
All I'm getting is "SHIII + GWX + FHF +ARR +STAD" crap


You all see I've never played this game.

Could I have a simple answer in English.


Also think and tell me "Was the SHIII stock campaign so addictive?"

Yes because you end your career when you die or in 1945, which ever comes first, but it is even better with the mods, that's what all the people have been saying.

[Sailor Steve]

Still no straight answers.
My answer wasn't straight enough? Your original statement was
I don't see why people love SHIII soooooo much.:hmmm:


The bad graphics and simplicity make it seem pretty boring.
The reason we love it so much is because we can play it without trouble and have a lot of fun doing it. The graphics are only bad by comparison and we've had years to get used to them. You have no idea how 'simple' it is or isn't. A lot of people who have played SH5 and come back to SH5 have said that SH5 isn't just simple, it's retarded. Maybe, maybe not, but that is what has been said.

Also think and tell me "Was the SHIII stock campaign as addictive as the SHV one?"
You say the SH5 campaign is addictive. Others have disagreed. You asked why people still love the older game. You've been answered. Are you actually trying to learn, or are you just looking for an argument?

I defended you against earlier accusations, but it's starting to look like the 'troll' comments may be true. Do we have a discussion, or just throw pies?

[Immelman]

Can some one please explain to me what is addictive about a campaign that ends in '43 when things start getting interesting albeit more difficult for the Germans?? :nope:

All the best technological breakthroughs are left out of the game as well as all the fun from the late war years. WTF people??

If I wanted to stop playing when things got tough I would play a french submarine simulation not a German one. We are French we surrender!

[Flopper]

Still no straight answers.
All I'm getting is "SHIII + GWX + FHF +ARR +STAD" crap


You all see I've never played this game.

Could I have a simple answer in English.


Also think and tell me "Was the SHIII stock campaign as addictive as the SHV one?"

Did you bother to read Sailor Steve's post? You need a simple answer in English? Do some research and you'll see why it's so great. There are many thousands of posts that will testify to this. I don't believe there's much need to have to further justify it to you.

[Exakt]

Can some one please explain to me what is addictive about a campaign that ends in '43 when things start getting interesting albeit more difficult for the Germans?? :nope:

All the best technological breakthroughs are left out of the game as well as all the fun from the late war years. WTF people??

Well, since this is a niche game, the Execs at Ubi probably thought that if they made an add-on, like UBM for SHIV, they could recoup part of the development cost, since they think that most SHV owners will buy it, to get the "full experience". But not only that, aiming for a total tonnage to "move forward in the campaign", to me, is totally nonaddictive. I guess that nowadays the younger players probably needs a "clear" objective or they get ADDed. Sadly, the most popular games are almost all FPS with intense online gameplay, the more "thinking" you have to do in a game is now something that can "kill" the game, because they can't keep concentrated anymore, it has to attract them right away and in the simplest way. We call this in French, "L'Enfant Roi", or the King Kid Syndrome, wants everything and wants it now...I know that the following example is a bit off from a sim but SWG has suffered from that kind of outlook ever since they developed the NGE. "You can now be a Jedi with little to no work at all", which in turn did piss off the older fans of Star Wars.

This is what I believe is a plague in the gaming industry, I have been gaming for 25 years, on old C64, Epson, VIC20 and IBM PS2 for the "PC" side and IntelliVision, Colico, NES, Sega, Genesis (which I still have) for the consoles, but I am more of a PC Gamer than a console one.

[ERPP8]

Can some one please explain to me what is addictive about a campaign that ends in '43 when things start getting interesting albeit more difficult for the Germans?? :nope:

All the best technological breakthroughs are left out of the game as well as all the fun from the late war years. WTF people??

If I wanted to stop playing when things got tough I would play a french submarine simulation not a German one. We are French we surrender!
Well, the campaign seems so fun because the SHIV(only other subsim I've played) is nothing but "Deploy to Luzon and engage enemy merchant shipping"

[tomfon]

Can some one please explain to me what is addictive about a campaign that ends in '43 when things start getting interesting albeit more difficult for the Germans?? :nope:

Who knows? :06:

If I wanted to stop playing when things got tough I would play a french submarine simulation not a German one. We are French we surrender!

You can say that again.

By the way, ''fotia kai tsekouri'' you say. Who do you have in mind? ;)

[Exakt]

Well, the campaign seems so fun because the SHIV(only other subsim I've played) is nothing but "Deploy to Luzon and engage enemy merchant shipping"

What do you think SHV is doing... it is the same thing, the only big difference is that your "playground" is somewhat less restrictive in assigning you more of a region than a specific spot.

[nemo7]

Still no straight answers.
All I'm getting is "SHIII + GWX + FHF +ARR +STAD" crap


You all see I've never played this game.

Could I have a simple answer in English.


Also think and tell me "Was the SHIII stock campaign as addictive as the SHV one?"

This "GWX Crap" means years of Devotion, Hard Teamwork, Extratension, Vision and Talent buddy. Show some respect...

Silent Hunter III is the grittier and far more immersive U-boat Sim ever made. Words just can't describe the feeling; you have to try it. But above all, it is a stand against the online based DRM of Ubi's SH5 and the systematic "arcadeness' of everything around...

[Task Force]

silent hunter 5 seems like a much less serious game to me than 3, Ive played 5, it just dosent have the feeling 3 has.

[HundertzehnGustav]

I respect your opinion but here's my list


SHV
The good:
Addicting campaign
Great graphics
Amazing realism
Gets me to really understand what's happening unlike SHIV


The bad:
Several bugs but most are minor
Few U-Boat Models
Low (but avoidable) framerate


The Good
Freedom in campaiign
realism of SHV doubled
Harder to understand, but the info is available in the gui.
easyer to handle (keyboard)
Modded in good packages.
a lot of development happening
Complete.


The Bad
2005 graphix not up to par
weather can freeze for weeks
Game folder has tripled in size since stock.

PS
IX/B for life, and acoustic torps, Flakvierling and radar developments!

[Madox58]

You guys do know that you can lead a Horse to water.
But as much as you BEAT him?
You can't get him to drink!
:haha:

So I drive a Dodge.
You say Ford.
Then we get that Damned Yugo guy that comes in and has
all your panties twisted!

May be it was a legit post at first?
But it's just fallen into a panty twister thing now.

He ain't going to Drink the water no matter how much you BEAT him!
:har:

[HundertzehnGustav]

Chevrolet for the win!

[Immelman]

By the way, ''fotia kai tsekouri'' you say. Who do you have in mind? ;)

Lets start with the Ubi Execs and moving are way down to the lowliest programmer, Kolokotronis style :arrgh!:
We can stop when they start listening to our demands for a worthy gaming experience

[tomfon]

We can stop when they start listening to our demands for a worthy gaming experience

Well, this might take a lifetime Immelman but as you wish.:ping:

[schlechter pfennig]

My simplest answer as to 'What's so great' is this:

When I can feel, when I'm playing, that I can understand what it may have been like to serve in a U-boat, that's what's great.

When I'm trying to sneak up on a convoy without being spotted, and feel my heart race . . . when I'm desperately diving and twisting, already shipping water and flooding, and my mouth is dry and my belly knotted . . . when it's 1944 and I hear the relentless pings of three destroyers intent on my demise and my palms are sweating and my heart is pounding . . .

That's what's great.

SHIII with GWX* gives me those feelings. How accurate they are is something I'll never know, not having actually served on a U-boat during '39 -'45. But when I can take an objective assessment and, without bias, conclude a game does its dead-level best to permit someone to experience all that, and more . . .

That's what's so great.

Don't get me wrong: I enjoy good graphics, too. There's nothing like good ol' 'eye candy'. :) But graphics are the icing on the cake. If you frost a cardboard box with the world's most delicious icing, you still have a cardboard box. Granted, a nice tasting one, but, well . . .

SHIII with GWX* is, for me at least, not a game so much as an actual simulation. And that's why it's 'so great'.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
* Not denigrating any of the other supermods here, or of their massive efforts. I'm just familiar with GWX as that's the one I play.

[Vandecker]

...or are you just looking for an argument?Man: Is this the right room for an argument?

Mr Vibrating: I've told you once.

Man: No you haven't.

Mr Vibrating: Yes I have.

Man: When?

Mr Vibrating: Just now!

Man: No you didn't.

Mr Vibrating: Yes I did!

Man: Didn't.

Mr Vibrating: Did.

Man: Didn't.

Mr Vibrating: I'm telling you I did!

Man: You did not!

Mr Vibrating: I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?

Man: Oh ... Just a five-minute one.

Mr Vibrating: Fine (makes a note of it, the Man sists down) thank you. Anyway, I did.

Man: You most certainly did not.

Mr Vibrating: Now, let's get one thing quite clear. I most definitely told you!

Man: You did not.

Mr Vibrating: Yes I did.

Man: Didn't.

Mr Vibrating: Yes I did.

Man: Didn't.

Mr Vibrating: Yes I did!!

Man: Look, this isn't an argument.

Mr Vibrating: Yes it is.

Man: No it isn't, it's just contradiction.

Mr Vibrating: No it isn't.

Man: Yes it is.

Mr Vibrating: It is not.

Man: It is. You just contradicted me.

Mr Vibrating: No I didn't.

Man: Ooh, you did!

Mr Vibrating: No, no, no, no, no.

Man: You did, just then.

Mr Vibrating: No, nonsense!

Man: Oh, look this is futile.

Mr Vibrating: No it isn't.

Man: I came here for a good argument.

Mr Vibrating: No you didn't, you came here for an argument.

Man: Well, an argument's not the same as contradiction.

Mr Vibrating: It can be.

Man: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements to establish a definite proposition.

Mr Vibrating: No it isn't.

Man: Yes it is. It isn't just contradiction.

Mr Vibrating: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.

Man: But it isn't just saying 'No it isn't'.

Mr Vibrating: Yes it is.

Man: No it isn't, Argument is an intellectual process ... contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says.

Mr Vibrating: No it isn't.

Man: Yes it is. Mr Vibrating: Not at all.

Man: Now look! Mr Vibrating: (pressing the bell on his desk) That's it. Good morning.

Man: But I was just getting interested.

Mr Vibrating: Sorry the five minutes is up.

Man: That was never five minutes just now!

Mr Vibrating: I'm afraid it was.

Man: No it wasn't.

Mr Vibrating: I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to argue any more.

Man: What!?

Mr Vibrating: If you want me to go on arguing you'll have to pay for another five minutes.

Man: But that was never five minutes just now ... oh Come on! (Vibrating looks round as though Man: was not there) This is ridiculous.

Mr Vibrating: I'm very sorry, but I told you I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid.

Man: Oh. all right. (pays) There you are.

Mr Vibrating: Thank you.

Man: Well?.

Mr Vibrating: Well what?

Man: That was never five minutes just now.

Mr Vibrating: I told you I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid!

Man: I've just paid.

Mr Vibrating: No you didn't.

Man: I did! I did! I did!

Mr Vibrating: No you didn't.

Man: Look I don't want to argue about that.

Mr Vibrating: Well I'm very sorry but you didn't pay.

Man: Aha! Well if I didn't pay, why are you arguing ... got you!

Mr Vibrating: No you haven't. Man: Yes I have ... if you're arguing I must have paid.

Mr Vibrating: Not necessarily. I could be arguing in my spare time.

Man: I've had enough of this.

Mr Vibrating: No you haven't.

Man: Oh shut up!

[timmy41]

who let the toddler in here? the arcade games are down the hall.

[krashkart]

Could I have a simple answer in English.

Certainly. :)

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1370982&postcount=36

;)

[Subnuts]

U-571 is a better movie than Das Boot because the special effects are better. Actually, I've never seen Das Boot, but I saw a couple screenshots of the DVD and the model of the boat looked really fake in them. LOL

[Randomizer]

U-571 is a better movie than Das Boot because the special effects are better. Actually, I've never seen Das Boot, but I saw a couple screenshots of the DVD and the model of the boat looked really fake in them. LOL
Ha! 10-points for a target round. An opinion worthy of someone from another Subsim forum who shall remain nameless. Too bad no mention was made of ignoring all the vast liturature about the movie Das Boot around here or bothering to try and understand what little that might have been actually read. A far, far better thing it is just to stir the pot and leave.

Isn't sarcasm grand!

[kylania]

Certainly. :)

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1370982&postcount=36

;)

While that's a superbly written and stirring recount of how awesome SH3 is today, it's hardly fair to compare SH3 + 5 years of mods + outside research and external programs to Stock SH5... :DL Sure it mentions that "some" of it's due to mods, and the fact that SH5 will eventually get that good, but still. heh

Though, to be honest it's got me itching for another GWX patrol!! :oops:

[timmy41]

U-571 is a better movie than Das Boot because the special effects are better. Actually, I've never seen Das Boot, but I saw a couple screenshots of the DVD and the model of the boat looked really fake in them. LOL
LOL perfect!

[YukonJack_AK]

To the gentleman complaining about the lack of graphics in SH3 comapred to the over the top "theatrics" in SH5... I'd like to point out how much fun games from the early 90's like Aces over Europe, 688I, etc were - THEY WERE GREAT! :D Yes, in comparison to todays 1080p blah blah b.s. they pale in comparison but what made them great was the fact that you still HAD to use a little imagination. So they had pixels the size of thumb-prints, big deal. They were fun and engaging and you could get lost for days. Personally, I'd rather the game dev's spend more time on game play that graphics whoredom - the games would be SO much better :smug: SH3 may not be the prettiest girl on the block... but she's got the best "personality" ;)

[toodrunk]

To the OP, betcha can't wait for Naval Assault, Killing Tide to come out huh? Looks like so much fun, I mean, you can see on the outside of your awesome submarine. I know you can do that in SHIII, but the torpedos don't home in on anything, just make this little wake trail. How the hell does it make a wake? It's 10 feet underwater!Q!!!

[edit] [/sarcasm]

Meh, I'm a go hunt down a convoy or something.

[HundertzehnGustav]

While that's a superbly written and stirring recount of how awesome SH3 is today, it's hardly fair to compare SH3 + 5 years of mods + outside research and external programs to Stock SH5... :DL Sure it mentions that "some" of it's due to mods, and the fact that SH5 will eventually get that good, but still. heh

Though, to be honest it's got me itching for another GWX patrol!! :oops:

I doubt, that SHV will ever rise to the level of SHIII+mods... gameplay wise...
just too darn difficult to create anything for that beast, and too many people pissed off at it.
But let me hope that in 2013 SHV can be a true WWII U-boot simulator ...

[raymond6751]

To me SHIII seems boring, SHIV WAS boring and SHV is the best game ever made!!!

The great thing about these sims is that they are that realistic that you can get bored. That too is realistic. The real submariners spent weeks sailing without spotting another ship.

I agree with the statement quoted except that SH5 has the potential to be good, but it isn't yet so. The modders, as with the previous versions, are going to continue to make it better.

If you are playing a sub sim without the boring part, you are playing an arcade game. Turn on the gramophone and listen to tunes. Pour water over your head for realism. Put a fan on your face for sea breeze. Stick a pail of diesel fuel in the corner of the room for sensory effect. Close all the windows and blinds and live in electric light, red at night.

See, there are things you can do.

[RConch]

I almost felt bad after reading Sailor Steve's specific and reasoned response to this person. Maybe I was too harsh and too quick to call this guy a troll.
Then I see he continued on the same line as before, much like a child always asking "why, why" to every answer given.
I stand by my original assesment.:yep:
Play the game (SH III) and then come back and support your conclusions on the differences and benefits of the two games.

[Sailor Steve]

While that's a superbly written and stirring recount of how awesome SH3 is today, it's hardly fair to compare SH3 + 5 years of mods + outside research and external programs to Stock SH5... :DL Sure it mentions that "some" of it's due to mods, and the fact that SH5 will eventually get that good, but still. heh
I completely agree. I was one of the people saying as much when everybody was slagging SH4.

But question wasn't about comparing stock versus stock, or about comparing at all. The question was why so many people looooove SH3 still. What more can I say, but that I'm very much looking forward to the day SH5 surpasses SH3 and SH4 in every category. And it looks like it will someday.

But not today.

[toodrunk]

Play the game (SH III) and then come back and support your conclusions on the differences and benefits of the two games.

That sounds about like the best advice.

[Immelman]

I agree with the statement quoted except that SH5 has the potential to be good, but it isn't yet so. The modders, as with the previous versions, are going to continue to make it better.

If I understand correctly what you are saying is SH5 has the potential of becoming a great game to the point of even surpassing SH3 as we know it today with all the supermods. I haven't played SH5 so I will not dispute your claims I will leave it in the hands of more qualified people then I.

What I would like to understand is the following:
After all the effort of all the mods that have been done over the years to improve SH3 and make it what it is today why the heck should we encourage a half finished game like SH5 by buying it?

If UBI can't take the hint of what a subsim should look and feel like after all that was done; if they can't be bothered to release a better game then amateur programmers (amateurs only in the sense that they are not paid to do it, no insult intended) can do in their spare time; if they treat this game as a cash cow instead of a labor of love like the community does; then why the heck should we support them??

In fact what they are doing is counting on the fact that the game will be moded and made playable by the hardcore fans. So from their point of view why waste man hours and money when it will be done in due time for free by the fans? Just throw together some eye candy generate profits and let the idiots figure it out while we move on to the next project and do it all over again.

I believe that in buying SH5 we support this type of behavior. This has got to stop it’s gone on long enough. It's up to us to make it happen by our actions.

[maillemaker]

I don't see why people love SHIII soooooo much.:hmmm:


The bad graphics and simplicity make it seem pretty boring.

Well, I have purposefully not moved on to SH4 or SH5 because I have not yet mastered SHIII. It is not an easy game. It is a highly compelling game, as you work hard and invest time in growing your crew and racking up tonnage, while trying to avoid the ever-better escorts.

I have never made it through the war with Dead is Dead, and that is my goal.

I'm personally highly impressed with the SH3 graphics. When you play 100% realism you lose the external camera anyway so frankly your views of the outside world become somewhat limited.

I would like to see more of the interior of my sub, but it's really just eye candy.

I will never play SH5 so long as it contains phone-home DRM in order to play.

[KL-alfman]

even SH3-stock (I played more than a year without any mods - right after its release) is a very immersive and accurate simulation.
only after I installed it again and encountered the "save-game bug" I came here to SubSim and learned how to add even more realism and immersion to the game.
graphics I never considered "ugly" or out-dated, because I prefer the strategical and tactical aspects of the game.

regarding immersion: some convoy-attacks (especially after mid-1943) were so "frightening" (because of the bright and ever-alert escorts) that I had to pause, smoke a cigarette and cool down my nerves to continue playing.

regarding replayability: especially like to open and dynamic campaigning. no patrol is like the former one. you can do whatever you like to achieve your goals, after visiting your patrol-grid you are free to sail whatever hunting ground you estimate to be juicy. e.g., in Operation Drumbeat I travelled to the assigned PG but guessed there might be better grounds with more depth under keel. so I hung out around the SE of Halifax to hit poorly defended gathering convoys there.

as for comparison with SH5:
first I must say that my only impressions are from the SH5-board and some trailer-vids.
I think I'm not wrong when I claim that the majority of the members of SubSim would have been content with a polished and graphically enhanced version of SH3. but SH5 turned out to be completely different.
I really am disappointed how the publisher treated this sequel to the series. not only they established the most rigid copy-protection which has you to allow UBI free access to your PC-data, they also force you to set up a personal account at U-play, which I never will do (just want to play a game, after all). the only "relation" I like to have with UBI is that of a provider-costumer one, nothing more.

also there are some issues in game-play that will bring me to - probably - never buy it (even if DRM is patched out):
- no compass
- no depth under keel
- RPG-elements
- broken AI
- patrols end after achieving the mission-target, even if you are amidst an attack (you will be teleported out of the game)
- and many minor bugs (amongst others the old save-game bug)

sure some of them might be fixed by patches or the modders but I doubt that I ever can make friends with SH5 (pls think about the 3/4 of players who don't know about modding or do searches in the netz about them!, they have to deal what UBI presents them!!).

finally, pls be aware that some more SH5-postings will occur here in the board of SH3. mainly because of provoking and showing how "superior" SH5 is, some others would like us to change the "sides" of our beloved sim. we might have to cope with being adressed as "boring old-farts" because we haven't changed to SH5.
but I can live with that :D


edit: but I do look forward to SH4 with the UBM add-on (Ducimus pictured it in shiny colours, so I surely will give it a try)

[krashkart]

To the gentleman complaining about the lack of graphics in SH3 comapred to the over the top "theatrics" in SH5... I'd like to point out how much fun games from the early 90's like Aces over Europe, 688I, etc were - THEY WERE GREAT! :D Yes, in comparison to todays 1080p blah blah b.s. they pale in comparison but what made them great was the fact that you still HAD to use a little imagination. So they had pixels the size of thumb-prints, big deal. They were fun and engaging and you could get lost for days. Personally, I'd rather the game dev's spend more time on game play that graphics whoredom - the games would be SO much better :smug: SH3 may not be the prettiest girl on the block... but she's got the best "personality" ;)

:up:



also there are some issues in game-play that will bring me to - probably - never buy it (even if DRM is patched out):
- no compass
- no depth under keel
- RPG-elements
- broken AI
- patrols end after achieving the mission-target, even if you are amidst an attack (you will be teleported out of the game)
- and many minor bugs (amongst others the old save-game bug)


No compass? :hmmm:
:/\\chop
No DUK??? How can there... :stare: :hmmm:
:/\\x:
Patrols end after achieving mission target? %$#@ that. :hmph:

[Hook]

- patrols end after achieving the mission-target, even if you are amidst an attack (you will be teleported out of the game)

Well, that's one way to eliminate all those "boring" depth charge attacks. No wonder there's no Depth Under Keel, you'll never need it.

I gotta say I like the idea of the RPG elements, although I'll bet it's pretty annoying after a short time in the stock game. I'm guessing the modders will find a way to make it better.

---

I was never interested in submarine simulations until someone showed me the original Silent Hunter and explained how everything worked: how to track an target, set up an intercept, do a torpedo run, and I was hooked. Silent Hunter 2 (and Destroyer Command) was a considerable improvement in graphics (the original SH was sprites, for gosh sake!), and SH3 even better. The eye candy improved, but the mind candy was always there from the beginning. The mind candy is what makes SH3 and the earlier versions great, and it sounds like a lot of the mind candy is missing from SH5.

I was using a slide rule as early as SH2 to figure torpedo solutions, find target ranges, do time/distance calculations, plot intercepts and the like. I've been using the Flash version of the Wiz Wheel lately, which is much better (it came out since the last time I played SH3). I even assembled my own paper version tonight, feeling like a Jedi building his own light saber. Would I even have a use for it in SH5?

It's not even the mods that make SH3 great. The game was great before we had them, but they made a good game even better.

Perhaps one day SH5 will be better than SH3. I'll find out in a few years after the modders have had a chance to work their magic and the DRM is removed. I bought SH3 (with StarForce) when I got a new computer and I've never quite forgiven Ubi for making XP crash more than ME ever did, not to mention ending up with a dead DVD drive.

Hook

[KL-alfman]

fine post, hook! :up:

especially liked the expression: "mind candy"!!