Thailand riots

[OneToughHerring]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8637855.stm

Not exactly new but seems like these riots aren't going away. People dying and grenades and live ammo used on both sides I think. At least one cameraman died, here's some of the last footage he shot.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8616339.stm

Westeners are going over there on vacation and the whole country is in turmoil. Imagine if these were Muslims, eh? The whole country would have been carpet bombed many times over.

[AVGWarhawk]

Westeners are going over there on vacation and the whole country is in turmoil.


Huh?

[OneToughHerring]

Huh?

Hunh? (http://trishatruly.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/understand-huh-hunh.jpg)

[AVGWarhawk]

Hunh? (http://trishatruly.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/understand-huh-hunh.jpg)

Huh?

[Blood_splat]

Huh?
Huh?

[AVGWarhawk]

Huh?

Huh?

[UnderseaLcpl]

Huh?

huh?

[Sailor Steve]

huh?
Et tu, James?

[Happy Times]

Häh, höh, hah.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Et tu, James?

I were bored

[Sailor Steve]

I were bored
Huh?

[GoldenRivet]

its not "huh" nor "hunh"

its Arrrrghghghhhh!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiT_5cr3tYI

[AVGWarhawk]

Hmmmmmm......... :hmmm:

[frau kaleun]

lolwut?

[OneToughHerring]

At least three dead, 75 wounded with foreigners among them in the grenade strikes today.

[AVGWarhawk]

At least three dead, 75 wounded with foreigners among them in the grenade strikes today.

There are 3 dead and 75 wounded...foreigners among them? Why do we need to know there are foreigners among them?

[OneToughHerring]

There are 3 dead and 75 wounded...foreigners among them? Why do we need to know there are foreigners among them?

Because western people don't care about eastern people? Good question.

[frau kaleun]

Christ almighty, how was this not a top story on the news here?

Oh, right, they didn't have time, cuz they were interviewing one of Michael Jackson's sisters. TEN MONTHS LATER, HOW ARE THEY COPING? Yes that certainly qualifies as a major news item to be featured in the first half of your broadcast.

Granted I don't watch the news like a hawk but I do get a good 45-60 minutes of it first thing in the morning 6 days a week, and if this has been mentioned it has to have been wedged somewhere into the rundown of "oh BTW this also happened somewhere" events.

Er maybe I need to pay more attention when BBC News America comes on right after Gordon Ramsay.

[GoldenRivet]

OneToughHerring...


OneToughLesson you need to learn is that when governments fail to address the needs and concerns of the people - throughout history... such activity is almost universally the result.

sucks that people died.

sucks that people die at all.

but the world is a sh*tty place man.

the world sucks in general and you nor anyone else will ever change that.

sad story you have shared with us indeed

but to that story i say "meh" this crap happens everywhere




tough titty said the kitty...

...but the milks still good.

EDIT:

and no it has nothing to do with western people not giving a damn about eastern people (whatever the hell thats supposed to mean... next it will be "people in blue shirts dont care what happens to people in green shirts!") I had the same "concerns" or lack thereof when the LA riots were going on.

[AVGWarhawk]

Because western people don't care about eastern people? Good question.

This is were I'm itching my head OTH, what peoples (western) and peoples (eastern) are you speaking of?

[GoldenRivet]

This is were I'm itching my head OTH, what peoples (western) and peoples (eastern) are you speaking of?

its the same old

"dont care about brown people" bullsh*t we hear from everyone who feels the need to make an excuse for themselves.

whatever.:shifty:

[AVGWarhawk]

Hence my....Huh? :06::06::06:

No foreigners for the north or south were injured in this post.

[krashkart]

Christ almighty, how was this not a top story on the news here?

Oh, right, they didn't have time, cuz they were interviewing one of Michael Jackson's sisters. TEN MONTHS LATER, HOW ARE THEY COPING? Yes that certainly qualifies as a major news item to be featured in the first half of your broadcast.

Granted I don't watch the news like a hawk but I do get a good 45-60 minutes of it first thing in the morning 6 days a week, and if this has been mentioned it has to have been wedged somewhere into the rundown of "oh BTW this also happened somewhere" events.

Er maybe I need to pay more attention when BBC News America comes on right after Gordon Ramsay.

I must have missed that portion of the Jackson tragedy. Was busy shaking off the "baby powder in Lindsay Lohan's shoes" tragedy. :-?

Reminds me that I should tune in to Jim Lehrer tonight. :yep:

[OneToughHerring]

its the same old

"dont care about brown people" bullsh*t we hear from everyone who feels the need to make an excuse for themselves.

whatever.:shifty:

Yes I know you don't care about "brown people", that goes without saying.

[GoldenRivet]

Yes I know you don't care about "brown people", that goes without saying.

how so?

since you obviously know the most intimate details of my life and all.:up:

its an excuse OTH, saying that "the west doesnt care"

a lame ass excuse - and you know it.

[OneToughHerring]

how so?

since you obviously know the most intimate details of my life and all.:up:

its an excuse OTH, saying that "the west doesnt care"

a lame ass excuse - and you know it.

Whatever. I'm not the one living in a country built with slave labour so obviously we must think differently in many fundamental ways.

[GoldenRivet]

Yes because America is clearly the only nation anywhere on Earth at any time through history to ever use slave labor.

you are probably one of those DAs who think that everyone in the Southern USA was a whip cracking slave owner.

please

90% of the Southern United States was poorer than dirt. leaving a very slim minority of wealthy land owners to own black and WHITE slaves. ;)

My great great grandfather did more than his share of work in a cotton field... so spare me the BS

:doh:

Personally im done being "guilted"

I no longer care if someone calls me a racist or a biggot or a red neck... i just dont give a damn.

its the only thing they have to resort to in order to "silence" people they dont agree with - and it no longer works on me.

[GoldenRivet]

You're just pissed because your thread drew not one drop of sympathy.

do you know why?

no?

ok... let me show you where you effed up here...

This is how your post should have looked

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8637855.stm

Not exactly new but seems like these riots aren't going away. People dying and grenades and live ammo used on both sides I think. At least one cameraman died, here's some of the last footage he shot.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8616339.stm

but you had to go and take a condescending tone toward westerners for some reason and add in this little nugget.


Westeners are going over there on vacation and the whole country is in turmoil. Imagine if these were Muslims, eh? The whole country would have been carpet bombed many times over.

[Sailor Steve]

My great-great-grandfather was an 'owner'. So there. Sue me for reparations. I'm sure my unemployment insurance will make your life much better.:D

OTH, I'm sorry your thread got so far off topic, but sometimes people just get struck the wrong way be the wrong things. It happens.

[AVGWarhawk]

This is why "Huh?" is the best response sometimes. :yeah:

[GoldenRivet]

"Huh?"

simple

effective

:yeah:

[OneToughHerring]

You're just pissed because your thread drew not one drop of sympathy.

do you know why?

no?

ok... let me show you where you effed up here...

This is how your post should have looked



but you had to go and take a condescending tone toward westerners for some reason and add in this little nugget.

So people in Thailand are dying and foreigners, possibly including Americans, are getting injured and you personally don't feel any sympathy? How weird.

Some footage from Youtube about the situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMOLHdJ95f8

[GoldenRivet]

So people in Thailand are dying and foreigners, possibly including Americans, are getting injured and you personally don't feel any sympathy? How weird.

is that whay i said?

no...

i dont have sympathy for your thread.

meaning - i dont care for the way you chose to derogatorily share the information.

EDIT:

here is some footage on youtube that is much more appropriate to the original post IMHO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8MDNFaGfT4&feature=related

[OneToughHerring]

is that whay i said?

no...

i dont have sympathy for your thread.

meaning - i dont care for the way you chose to derogatorily share the information.

Well, whatever. I'd be pissed too if my country was losing two wars simultaneously.

[GoldenRivet]

Well, whatever. I'd be pissed too if my country was losing two wars simultaneously.

since we are going the childish route.

Im rubber

you're glue

whatever you say

bounces off me

and sticks to you!

:har::har:

[OneToughHerring]

There's very little childish about losing wars dude.

And here come the travel alerts.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8638552.stm

[GoldenRivet]

huh?

[tater]

A buddy of mine lives in Bangkok. His wife, is a naturalized American from Thailand (they met when he first went there, then she did her graduate work here in the States (he was at the same school, but did his PhD work in Thailand, lol)). I emailed him last time this cropped up (I was concerned), and he was amazingly matter of fact about it.

Not saying there is nothing to be concerned about, as I certainly am, but people there don't seem as bothered as I would expect, LOL.

[GoldenRivet]

One of my associates travels to the region quarterly for about a month at a time.

he never mentions anything about it

[OneToughHerring]

A buddy of mine lives in Bangkok. His wife, is a naturalized American from Thailand (they met when he first went there, then she did her graduate work here in the States (he was at the same school, but did his PhD work in Thailand, lol)). I emailed him last time this cropped up (I was concerned), and he was amazingly matter of fact about it.

Not saying there is nothing to be concerned about, as I certainly am, but people there don't seem as bothered as I would expect, LOL.

Yea I don't mean to paint the situation as a huge disaster or anything, just that there seems to be some political changes there in Thailand that are kind of waiting to happen. Not sure what changes exactly but there seems to be a division between the city folks and the rural folks, to simplify things somewhat. In the past there has been the tsunami and it's effect on westerners, including Finns so this situation is followed quite closely in Finnish media.

[Onkel Neal]

Stop reporting everyone who replies to this thread, Herring.

[GoldenRivet]

Yea I don't mean to paint the situation as a huge disaster or anything, just that there seems to be some political changes there in Thailand that are kind of waiting to happen. Not sure what changes exactly but there seems to be a division between the city folks and the rural folks, to simplify things somewhat. In the past there has been the tsunami and it's effect on westerners, including Finns so this situation is followed quite closely in Finnish media.

Now you're talking.

Your thread would have been taken much more seriously if this had been the tone you used in the OP.

Its unfortunate that such violent exchanges occur, however, radical changes in leadership almost never occur peacefully.

as unfortunate as it really is - its a simple fact of life that people dont get along all that well, and human kind has done extraordinarily well to make it this far without killing itself into extinction

[tater]

Herring,

I pay special attention to Thailand only partly because of my friends there. I have been there twice (I was briefly an illegal alien there when I let my 3 month visa lapse for a few weeks ;) ) and I love the country. Pretty place, nice people.

What had concerned me most—and still does—are the Muslims in the South. The have been murdering innocent people for quite a while now (as Muslims are wont to do), and it gets little reporting. I remember reading recently of some teachers (Buddhists, of course) getting killed. When I was backpacking there in the 80s, a couple—both teachers—offered us a ride and let us stay in their house near the beach, and all I could do was think of them when I read that story.

[SteamWake]

Stop reporting everyone who replies to this thread, Herring.

LOL

Hey you dont hear much about this kind of thing either and it goes on every freakin day down there...


Dozens of gunmen have kidnapped at least six people after storming a Holiday Inn hotel in Monterrey, Mexico's third-largest city.


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/04/22/dozens-gunmen-storm-mexican-holiday-inn-kidnapping-people/

Talk about your travel warnings.

[OneToughHerring]

Stop reporting everyone who replies to this thread, Herring.

Ok Neal, sorry about that.

Now you're talking.

Your thread would have been taken much more seriously if this had been the tone you used in the OP.

Its unfortunate that such violent exchanges occur, however, radical changes in leadership almost never occur peacefully.

as unfortunate as it really is - its a simple fact of life that people dont get along all that well, and human kind has done extraordinarily well to make it this far without killing itself into extinction

Oh I don't think there is anything wrong with my OP. Imagine if these were Muslims rioting, what would the reaction be then? There would be people demanding the bombing of Bangkok etc. And that's just here in Subsim.

Thailand is a very important part of western rule in Asia, a kind of cheap brothel. It's a model for other Asian countries in what they should be like if they want to stay on good terms with the west. I guess the poor in Thailand are fed up being the brothel of the west.

[AVGWarhawk]

Oh I don't think there is anything wrong with my OP. Imagine if these were Muslims rioting, what would the reaction be then?


This is not pertinent to the thread. This is about Thailand. Imagine it is just Thailand. No reason to make comparisons with Muslims or anyone else for that matter. It is nothing but fluff and detracts from the real discussion concerning Thailand.

[GoldenRivet]

Imagine if these were Muslims rioting, what would the reaction be then?

When that was going on in Iran... where there is a significant Muslim population... i thought the world was quite supportive of the people :06:

[OneToughHerring]

This is not pertinent to the thread. This is about Thailand. Imagine it is just Thailand. No reason to make comparisons with Muslims or anyone else for that matter. It is nothing but fluff and detracts from the real discussion concerning Thailand.

Oh that kind of freedom of speech. I'm beginning to get it now. :o

[AVGWarhawk]

Oh that kind of freedom of speech. I'm beginning to get it now. :o

Yes, freedom of speech! Problem is, Muslims are not part of the Thailand issues occurring at the moment. Makes no sense to bring up Muslims or anyone else for that matter in a thread about Thailand riots.

[frau kaleun]

This is not pertinent to the thread. This is about Thailand. Imagine it is just Thailand. No reason to make comparisons with Muslims or anyone else for that matter. It is nothing but fluff and detracts from the real discussion concerning Thailand.

Yeah I would've agreed until I read this:

have been murdering innocent people for quite a while now (as Muslims are wont to do)

Emphasis mine, because, yeah, the Muslim I worked for just murdered another innocent person today, that's two for the week and over three dozen for the year so far.

:nope:

I mean seriously?

[tater]

Oh I don't think there is anything wrong with my OP. Imagine if these were Muslims rioting, what would the reaction be then? There would be people demanding the bombing of Bangkok etc. And that's just here in Subsim.

One, Muslim's rioting would not be news, just another day at the office for them. ;)

Two, Muslims are murdering people in Thailand right now, and it is not covered at all. They are sort of like "youths" in France.

Thailand is a very important part of western rule in Asia, a kind of cheap brothel. It's a model for other Asian countries in what they should be like if they want to stay on good terms with the west. I guess the poor in Thailand are fed up being the brothel of the west.

In my experience by the "west" you must mostly mean Europe. I agree (there was a period—Viet Nam War era—when US dominated this, to be sure). That said, the sex trade is technically illegal, and mostly exists due to Thai corruption (it's also a very sad thing, kids are literally sold into sexual slavery. It's disgusting to see them with fat "sex-tourists" as you do even away from Bangkok.

[tater]

Yes, freedom of speech! Problem is, Muslims are not part of the Thailand issues occurring at the moment. Makes no sense to bring up Muslims or anyone else for that matter in a thread about Thailand riots.

Sadly this is not true. They have a continuing problem in the south of the country.

[AVGWarhawk]

Ok, so we take a look at what tater is speaking of:

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1051833/1/.html

Was OTH realling speaking of this issue or was the comment about carpet bombing just a side deal to ruffle a few feathers? :hmmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

Sadly this is not true. They have a continuing problem in the south of the country.


Yes sir, just looked it up. :hmmm: See above.

[AVGWarhawk]

In my experience by the "west" you must mostly mean Europe. I agree (there was a period—Viet Nam War era—when US dominated this, to be sure). That said, the sex trade is technically illegal, and mostly exists due to Thai corruption (it's also a very sad thing, kids are literally sold into sexual slavery. It's disgusting to see them with fat "sex-tourists" as you do even away from Bangkok.

Man...that is a whole other thread. It is very disgusting.

[OneToughHerring]

Ok, so we take a look at what tater is speaking of:

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1051833/1/.html

Was OTH realling speaking of this issue or was the comment about carpet bombing just a side deal to ruffle a few feathers? :hmmm:

Nope, and as you can see the casualties being Muslims the thing is not covered in western medias in any way. How surprising.

By carpet bombing I meant what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan right this moment and has been going on for close to a decade in Afghanistan and 7 plus years in Iraq.

[AVGWarhawk]

Nope, and as you can see the casualties being Muslims the thing is not covered in western medias in any way. How surprising.

By carpet bombing I meant what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan right this moment and has been going on for close to a decade in Afghanistan and 7 plus years in Iraq.

Yes, I understood the carpet bombing in Iraq, etc. You are correct, the western medias do not follow the Muslim's goings on in Thailand. Why do you think this is?

[OneToughHerring]

Yes, I understood the carpet bombing in Iraq, etc. You are correct, the western medias do not follow the Muslim's goings on in Thailand. Why do you think this is?

The south of Thailand is not really a tourist region, it's a poor region, even poorer then the rest of Thailand. Very few westeners there so no real reason to waste the spotlight on them. That's how it works with the western media.

[AVGWarhawk]

The south of Thailand is not really a tourist region, it's a poor region, even poorer then the rest of Thailand. Very few westeners there so no real reason to waste the spotlight on them. That's how it works with the western media.

But as tater points out, the slave trade in that region, this is usually in the western media news from time to time. Sick activity that it is.

But back to the original question....is it possible that this area lacking in oil is not an interest of the US thus no media attention? Often it is said that Iraq war is about oil. I agree to some degree. Perhaps the carpet bombings would begin if the interest of the US was there?

[UnderseaLcpl]

The south of Thailand is not really a tourist region, it's a poor region, even poorer then the rest of Thailand. Very few westeners there so no real reason to waste the spotlight on them. That's how it works with the western media.

Alright Herring, I'll bite. Let's pretend for a moment that we all live in your perfect world where nobody ignores people because they are brown and Westerners aren't a bunch of ignorant, consumerist oppressors. What then? We'll ferry our vast wealth to Thailand and it will make it all better?

It just so happens that we already send vast amounts of aid to desperately poor and conflicted countries. It rarely does any good, though, because those same countries are in the state they are in because of their own rulers. No amount of money or non-monetary aid will ever change their plight. Centralist governments are like a black hole when it comes to economics. They will swallow every resource you throw at them without yielding anything of value. That's not theory or speculation, that's just how they work.

If you're such a noble egalitarian, how's about you give away enough of your own material wealth that you reduce yourself to the standard of living that an average Thai has? That way, you'll get to see the lasting benefits of your contribution (none) and simultaneously demonstrate actual caring about the plight of Thailand, rather than just demanding that other people care about it. I might even be moved to donate myself, in the face of such selfless generosity. Better yet, you won't be able to afford an internet connection, so this discussion will be over.

Well, what are you waiting for? There are starving babies and stuff in Thailand and about 200 other nations. Hop to it!

[OneToughHerring]

Well, what are you waiting for? There are starving babies and stuff in Thailand and about 200 other nations. Hop to it!

You don't have enough iron in your neck to tell me what to do. :)

[UnderseaLcpl]

You don't have enough iron in your neck to tell me what to do. :)

No, but I have more than enough leather.:D

[tater]

The South is not a Tourist region? Come again? The places hit worst by the tsunami were in that region. Krabi, and other areas accessed vis the South. It's absolutely a tourist area.

And yes, Muslim's habitually attack innocent civilians as their intentional targets. Sort through politically motivated violence for the last few years, and single out attacks where civilians are the intentional target. Many are beheaded, as well. Any Quaker beheadings lately?

[tater]

I should be fair and add the the Muslim violence is farther south than Krabi. Still, I'd think twice about travel into an area that even borders something like that. And the distance to Songkhla or Pattani is only a few hours by car.

I'd fear that Islamists might widen the conflict to nearby tourist areas because, well, that's what they do.

[OneToughHerring]

The South is not a Tourist region? Come again? The places hit worst by the tsunami were in that region. Krabi, and other areas accessed vis the South. It's absolutely a tourist area.

And yes, Muslim's habitually attack innocent civilians as their intentional targets. Sort through politically motivated violence for the last few years, and single out attacks where civilians are the intentional target. Many are beheaded, as well. Any Quaker beheadings lately?

To my knowledge the conflicts with the Muslims have occurred at the very southern part of Thailand by it's border with Malaysia. The touristy areas are to my knowledge further up north. There might be some tourists in the very south as well, don't really know that for sure.

[tater]

To my knowledge the conflicts with the Muslims have occurred at the very southern part of Thailand by it's border with Malaysia. The touristy areas are to my knowledge further up north. There might be some tourists in the very south as well, don't really know that for sure.

No, you are correct, the popular areas are north of the violence, but not far north.

Malaysia is nice, too, though, and tourists go THROUGH that region (I did) to get to Malaysia. I actually took a minibus (really a small van) from the Krabi area to Georgetown, Malaysia. It was myself and my friend, and the rest of the guys were musicians from the middle east—Iran? (was 20 years ago).

[Happy Times]

Well, what are you waiting for? There are starving babies and stuff in Thailand and about 200 other nations. Hop to it!

:har:

[OneToughHerring]

:har:

Oh I'm sorry I must have missed this. What's so funny?

[Morts]

your failed attempts at trolling are just hilarious:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

[Tribesman]

Ok, so we take a look at what tater is speaking of:

AVG how many seconds did it take you to find news coverage of these events tater says are not covered at all?

[OneToughHerring]

your failed attempts at trolling are just hilarious:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

Who's trolling, besides you that is?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8641644.stm

Looks like this conflict will continue for a long time and the travel restrictions are being put into place. Bad news for westeners who would like to travel to Thailand to use their prostitution services.

[tater]

AVG how many seconds did it take you to find news coverage of these events tater says are not covered at all?

You are suggesting that google searching "muslim violence thailand" is how people should have to find out about violence in Thailand?

I meant in the mainstream press. Watch a 30 minute evening news show, and it doesn't even get a bullet.

You can certainly find information about it, but you need to look at the right sites. Even if it gets covered by major outlets (meaning there is a story about it on their site, someplace), you need to dig to find it, it doesn't get put on the front page as a bullet, you need to dig.

[OneToughHerring]

You are suggesting that google searching "muslim violence thailand" is how people should have to find out about violence in Thailand?

I meant in the mainstream press. Watch a 30 minute evening news show, and it doesn't even get a bullet.

You can certainly find information about it, but you need to look at the right sites. Even if it gets covered by major outlets (meaning there is a story about it on their site, someplace), you need to dig to find it, it doesn't get put on the front page as a bullet, you need to dig.

So logically as a response to these riots the US should start bombing the Muslims in Thailand, right? Although there's no oil in Thailand.

Edit. The Thai military is said to be dividing into opposing camps. Not a good sign.

[Task Force]

Looks like a wild night in bangkok... well, its not a real jokeing matter, but still.

[Tribesman]

You are suggesting that google searching "muslim violence thailand" is how people should have to find out about violence in Thailand?

I am suggesting that a claim that issues are not covered in the media don't stand up very well when issues are covered in the media.
BTW this "muslim violence" thing, is that because its people who are muslims killing people who are muslims?
Can we have the next killings in Mexico described as Christian violence?

Watch a 30 minute evening news show, and it doesn't even get a bullet.

Wow thats amazing, surely they can fit it in between the stories about heavy traffic, a cat in a tree and ain't it looking like sunshine next week .:rotfl2:
Even if it gets covered by major outlets (meaning there is a story about it on their site, someplace), you need to dig to find it, it doesn't get put on the front page as a bullet, you need to dig.
You mean that if you want a story about a local issue on the fareast you have to go to the section that deals with news from the far east.
Though maybe its in the world news section and you have to go there to find it which is a bit of a bugger as world news doesn't make the front page unless its a really big important issue....which a hundred year old small local seperatist conflict isn't really.
Hey what about them Corsican seperatists, headline grabbing stuff ain't it.......Oh you probably havn't seen that on the 30 minute evening news as its a media conspiracy and you really have to dig:woot:

[joegrundman]

while it is true that the violence in southern thailand originates in the absorption of the kingdom of patthani by siam in the late 19th century, it is also the case that it has become part of the general increase in tensions found in this world where muslim areas are in contact with non-muslims.

Local grievances are fitted into a global narrative of oppression, fanned, supported and exploited.

The international jihadis have become active in southern thailand, although i think it is already subsiding after a high point around 2003.

The simple fact is that if it were simple muslim on muslim violence, no one would care, but it is not, and has seen murders in schools and other places.

In any case it is unrelated to the political situation in the north, which unfortunately has been brewing for nearly ten years and has the capacity to get much worse.

At heart the political crisis in the north is a clash of democracy (the true form of which is new in thailand, and has already been curtailed), versus the old order of monarchy and hierarchy.

In short, real democracy was implemented for the first time in the late 90s. The first true election resulted in the election of the billionaire Thaksin.

In the run up to this time, the move to democracy was driven by the aspirational urban middle class that envisioned democracy as a way to shift power to themselves and a way to fast track thailand's modernity. The rural poor previously were kept happy with the special protection of the king. And the aristocrats and local elites had the real power

But thaksin identified that democracy meant the rural poor could be the biggest voting block with the offer of populist policies (like a modern-day gracchus). This broke the poor's historical allegiance to the monarchy as sole protector and established democracy as the poor's best hope.

Thaksin won two crushing electoral victories.

This led the aristocrats and monarchy to feel personally threatened by thaksin.

The urban middle class in addition found themselves somewhat disenfranchised, no longer half way up the hierarchy, but rather lower, since too small numerically to count democratically, and too weak financially to have their way against the aristocracy.

Corruption (of which basically all thai elites are guilty of) became the mobilising factor for the urban middle class, who became the yellow shirts (to identify with the king, as it is the colour of the royal flag) These were supported by the monarchy, much of the aristocracy and in the end the military, and finally succeeded in pushing out thaksin and replacing true democracy with a more agreeable form.

they hoped this would be the end of it and the poor was to return to the condition of monarchy worship as sole source of comfort, but that turned out to be not the case.

they have mobilised as the red shirts and are focused around the issue of restoration of true democracy, which of course will mean the restoration of a party able to bring populist policies to improve their lot.

At stake in this is the position of democracy, and the monarchy. Is thailand to roll back democracy as 'unsuitable' and adopt a more agreeable form that preserves the traditional hierarchy?

passions are raised by an ancient prophecy that the chakri dynasty, founded with the capital's establishment in bangkok, would be illustrious and have 9 kings (rama I thru IX) - the present king is the 9th.

In addition, the son and heir is not as universally loved as the king, who is now old.

So, in short this could get a lot worse.

Civil war is not impossible, for although the army officially favours the yellow shirts (who could be mobilised as paramilitaries to avoid overt military interference), it is the case, that as usual, the soldiers themselves are drawn heavily from the rural poor and many are thus sympathetic to the red shirts

[OneToughHerring]

In any case it is unrelated to the political situation in the north, which unfortunately has been brewing for nearly ten years and has the capacity to get much worse.

Yes but precisely because it doesn't involve Muslims irritates people here making it absolutely necessary for them to dig out every even remotely related anti-Muslim aspect they can find, as proven by this discussion.

[tater]

Yes but precisely because it doesn't involve Muslims irritates people here making it absolutely necessary for them to dig out every even remotely related anti-Muslim aspect they can find, as proven by this discussion.

Not at all. I have friends who live in the middle of Bangkok. I'm interested in both stories (my buddy's wife is from Songkhla, after all).

The point is that THIS story, even small violence has been widely reported (I have heard stories on NPR, as well as TV), but at the height of Muslim violence in the south I had to go to alternate news sources online to stay up to date on what was going on.

[Tribesman]

The point is that THIS story, even small violence has been widely reported (I have heard stories on NPR, as well as TV), but at the height of Muslim violence in the south I had to go to alternate news sources online to stay up to date on what was going on.
Wow violence in a capital city gets more news coverage than violence in the provinces.
Thats amazing.

[OneToughHerring]

Not at all. I have friends who live in the middle of Bangkok. I'm interested in both stories (my buddy's wife is from Songkhla, after all).

The point is that THIS story, even small violence has been widely reported (I have heard stories on NPR, as well as TV), but at the height of Muslim violence in the south I had to go to alternate news sources online to stay up to date on what was going on.

I didn't necessarily mean you but then again you're not the only person who has commented on this this thread.

[tater]

Wow violence in a capital city gets more news coverage than violence in the provinces.
Thats amazing.

Why do you invariably chime in to defend islamic extremism and/or violence? Why should we not be concerned about spreading Muslim violence? They have some regional claim, and they murder school teachers. They feel disenfranchied and they burn hundreds of cars. Someone makes a short film they don't like, and he gets murdered (Van Gogh). People lose their lives because of a CARTOON—then the "free" press throughout the western world shoves their tails between their legs and refused to publish them. The list goes on and on.

Seriously. I have no "dog in the fight," as they say, I'm an atheist, or even to borrow Hitchen's term, and anti-theist. I'll happily attack Christian violence, for example. Right now the bulk of world violence done in the name of a particular religion is islamic. Not that long ago it would have been Christian (Catholic) in Africa (Rwanda). Now of course the torch has been passed there to the Sudan (Muslim).

I've traveled throughout Thailand and Malaysia, and I have to say, I prefer the thais, they're a far more tolerant society.

[OneToughHerring]

Why do you invariably chime in to defend islamic extremism and/or violence? Why should we not be concerned about spreading Muslim violence? They have some regional claim, and they murder school teachers. They feel disenfranchied and they burn hundreds of cars. Someone makes a short film they don't like, and he gets murdered (Van Gogh). People lose their lives because of a CARTOON—then the "free" press throughout the western world shoves their tails between their legs and refused to publish them. The list goes on and on.

Seriously. I have no "dog in the fight," as they say, I'm an atheist, or even to borrow Hitchen's term, and anti-theist. I'll happily attack Christian violence, for example. Right now the bulk of world violence done in the name of a particular religion is islamic. Not that long ago it would have been Christian (Catholic) in Africa (Rwanda). Now of course the torch has been passed there to the Sudan (Muslim).

I've traveled throughout Thailand and Malaysia, and I have to say, I prefer the thais, they're a far more tolerant society.

How about you start your own thread among the myriad similar ones started by Skybird & co. This thread is titled, and I quote, "Thailand riots". The subject of this thread are the riots between the so called red shirts and yellow shirts in Thailand.

[Foxtrot]

You should have used keywords like "Muslims", "Islam" and "terrorists" to make this thread a bit more...appealing to general population.

[CaptainHaplo]

Tater, folks like Tribesman, OTH and a couple of others have a tendency to make everything about their little pet issues - like bringing muslims into this discussion - then decrying how everyone is anti-muslim because they won't stop talking about them......

Its all trolling my friend - don't let it bug ya. :salute:

[OneToughHerring]

Tater, folks like Tribesman, OTH and a couple of others have a tendency to make everything about their little pet issues - like bringing muslims into this discussion - then decrying how everyone is anti-muslim because they won't stop talking about them......

Its all trolling my friend - don't let it bug ya. :salute:

How about you start your own thread among the myriad similar ones started by Skybird & co. This thread is titled, and I quote, "Thailand riots". The subject of this thread are the riots between the so called red shirts and yellow shirts in Thailand.

[DarkFish]

How about you start your own thread among the myriad similar ones started by Skybird & co. This thread is titled, and I quote, "Thailand riots". The subject of this thread are the riots between the so called red shirts and yellow shirts in Thailand.well yeah, but you brought the subject of muslims up.
If you say something in your opening post, you can expect people to respond to that.

[Tribesman]

Why do you invariably chime in to defend islamic extremism and/or violence?
Do you have reading problems?
Where have I defended the extremism or violence?
Are you upset that I pointed out that your claim was not true and then that your comments about the news were vacuous.
Now of course the torch has been passed there to the Sudan (Muslim).

Bloody hell:rotfl2:
Would you like to explore the conlicts in Sudan?
Perhaps you had better decide first which of the three main conflicts there can possibly meet your criteria.

Tater, folks like Tribesman,
Wow Haplo is being a troll again, what a surprise.

[XabbaRus]

I'm locking this thread now as it has started to go south and instead of debating the problems in Thailand now seems to be about who can call who a troll.

If people are ready to discuss the thread rationally then I will reopen it.