View Full Version : South Park incurs the wrath of Mohammed
Onkel Neal
04-21-10, 02:51 PM
Here we go again. (http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/TV/04/21/south.park.islamic.reaction/index.html?hpt=C2) :roll: These idiots walk the streets of New Yawk, no less.
Go ahead, Skybird, this is a free fire zone. :cool:
AVGWarhawk
04-21-10, 02:57 PM
I wonder if Kenny gets it again? :hmmm:
HunterICX
04-21-10, 02:58 PM
Radical Islam?
F*ck'em
HunterICX
Sailor Steve
04-21-10, 03:00 PM
Their faith allows them to watch silly cartoons? Who woulda thunk it?
Islam means "peace."
:har:
"We have to warn Matt and Trey that what they are doing is stupid," the posting on Revolutionmuslim.com says, "and they will probably wind up like Theo Van Gogh for airing this show. This is not a threat, but a warning of the reality of what will likely happen to them."
Not a threat, just Muslims themselves telling us that other Muslims ()not the poster!) are likely to murder people over a cartoon.
Got it.
How many were murdered over the cross in a jar of piss in that museum? Or the collage of the Virgin Mary made out of pictures of female genitalia cut from porno mags?
Hmm, let me think. Yeah, that's right, ZERO.
AVGWarhawk
04-21-10, 03:17 PM
And Mohammed said he also doesn't see anything wrong with his messages -- he dislikes the United States and he yearns for a Muslim world.
But I will keep my dead arse in NY and enjoy the freedoms of speech along with everthing else the United States has to offer. What a blow hard. :88)
Jimbuna
04-21-10, 03:22 PM
But I will keep my dead arse in NY and enjoy the freedoms of speech along with everthing else the United States has to offer. What a blow hard. :88)
LOL :DL
krashkart
04-21-10, 03:57 PM
Would they have laughed if it had been a gimp suit instead? :DL
Nah, maybe they'd laugh if he was portrayed wearing the flayed skin of their enemies.
Freiwillige
04-21-10, 04:01 PM
"Mohamed commands us to terrorize the non believers, Its a commandment!"
That says it all folks.:timeout:
These guys are starting to bore me. Radical islam has to go, like the plague and the Spice Girls.
Happy Times
04-21-10, 04:53 PM
The creators of South Park being Jewish i doubt they really care about the threat, they are by birth target to these idiots.
Schroeder
04-21-10, 05:00 PM
This isn't true Islam. True Islam is peaceful and respects everyone else.... :roll:
Spoon 11th
04-21-10, 05:35 PM
This old news, but...
Mohammed's appearance on South Park fails to spark outcry (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1509667/Mohammeds-appearance-on-South-Park-fails-to-spark-outcry.html)
An episode of South Park, the controversial American cartoon show, which featured a visual portrayal of the prophet Mohammed, has been screened on British television twice and can currently be viewed on the internet.
The episode, entitled The Super Best Friends, did not attract a single complaint from Muslim clerics when it was aired by Channel 4 in 2002 and 2003. The lack of protest is in stark contrast to the controversy over the recent newspaper publication of cartoons depicting Mohammed.
TLAM Strike
04-21-10, 05:46 PM
This old news, but...
Mohammed's appearance on South Park fails to spark outcry (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1509667/Mohammeds-appearance-on-South-Park-fails-to-spark-outcry.html)
An episode of South Park, the controversial American cartoon show, which featured a visual portrayal of the prophet Mohammed, has been screened on British television twice and can currently be viewed on the internet.
The episode, entitled The Super Best Friends, did not attract a single complaint from Muslim clerics when it was aired by Channel 4 in 2002 and 2003. The lack of protest is in stark contrast to the controversy over the recent newspaper publication of cartoons depicting Mohammed. These guys thrive on old news Spoon, they are ticked off about the Crusades and the Reconquista. :doh:
Jimbuna
04-21-10, 06:04 PM
These guys are starting to bore me. Radical islam has to go, like the plague and the Spice Girls.
What's wrong with the Spice Girls? :stare:
Task Force
04-21-10, 06:05 PM
Aaaahhh. anouther reason I cannot stand those radical islamics.
conus00
04-21-10, 06:30 PM
Myself, I am not tainted by any religion. I live by "live and let live."
In other words, do whatever you please as long as it does not affect me and, definitely, do not to try to enforce your beliefs on me.
You like to get up on Sunday's morning and go to church, well, I like to sleep in....
To each his (her) own.
But here is what I believe: Radical faiths (of any kind) constitute more danger to the humankind than global warming, tidal waves, Earth's pollution etc.
So my mind is clear on the subject: (to all radical religious groups) GO F*CK YOURSELVES AND LEAVE ME IN PEACE!
Spoon 11th
04-21-10, 06:48 PM
These guys thrive on old news Spoon, they are ticked off about the Crusades and the Reconquista. :doh:
I suppose so. The only reason Parker and Stone are still alive I think, is that (radical) muslims are uninformed about this old episode. OTOH prophet Muhammed was depicted in a positive way in this episode. It shouldn't make a difference though.
Here's a clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h69pnKjCRx8
AVGWarhawk
04-21-10, 07:00 PM
What's wrong with the Spice Girls? :stare:
I'm with Jim on this one. It was the likes of the Spice Girls that spurned the Pussy Cat Dolls. :rock::D I always wondered what happend to Stinky Bum Spice. LOL :O:
TLAM Strike
04-21-10, 07:30 PM
I suppose so. The only reason Parker and Stone are still alive I think, is that (radical) muslims are uninformed about this old episode. OTOH prophet Muhammed was depicted in a positive way in this episode. It shouldn't make a difference though.
Here's a clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h69pnKjCRx8
You are right they are uninformed, but it doesn't make a difference people in the ME with an agenda will turn anything in to something against their religion.
Remember this image?
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5079/jim050815pigsquealhmed8.jpg (http://img217.imageshack.us/i/jim050815pigsquealhmed8.jpg/)
There were outcries all over the ME claiming it depicted the Prophet as a pig (a major insult in Islam). It was a picture from a French Pork Festival. Some cleric made something out of nothing just to anger and enrage his supporters.
Ishmael
04-21-10, 09:48 PM
Maybe it's time to redo THIS Iconic image with a new subject:
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8682/nl022jan1972ad7.jpg
Is Nothing Sacred?
Wolfehunter
04-21-10, 09:54 PM
Myself, I am not tainted by any religion. I live by "live and let live."
In other words, do whatever you please as long as it does not affect me and, definitely, do not to try to enforce your beliefs on me.
You like to get up on Sunday's morning and go to church, well, I like to sleep in....
To each his (her) own.
But here is what I believe: Radical faiths (of any kind) constitute more danger to the humankind than global warming, tidal waves, Earth's pollution etc.
So my mind is clear on the subject: (to all radical religious groups) GO F*CK YOURSELVES AND LEAVE ME IN PEACE!This +1 :yeah:
Ducimus
04-21-10, 10:17 PM
"Mohamed commands us to terrorize the non believers, Its a commandment!"
That says it all folks.:timeout:
Call me a brown shirt if you want, but i think people like that need to be rounded up, and deported to a country outside of CONUS. Period.
Aaaahhh. anouther reason I cannot stand those radical islamics.
Well, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups#Largest_religions_or_belief _systems_by_number_of_adherents), there's about 1,300,000,000 to 1,600,000,000 people to tolerate.
conus00
04-22-10, 12:20 AM
Call me a brown shirt if you want, but i think people like that need to be rounded up, and deported to a country outside of CONUS. Period.
Hahaha. That's funny to see my nick in somebody post.... Even though my screen name has nothing to to with CONtinental US.
'Conus, is Latin version of my "real world" last name. Oddly I have moved to USA (CONUS) in 2000 hence conus00.
Back on the subject: I 100% agree.
nikimcbee
04-22-10, 12:27 AM
Islam means "peace."
:har:
don't you mean "piece" such as "you in pieces" (not you tater, in general?):D
nikimcbee
04-22-10, 12:30 AM
What's wrong with the Spice Girls? :stare:
Yeah, there's the lesser known Spice girl from Newcastle; Bunaspice
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/teparadox/FatChicks.png
krashkart
04-22-10, 01:22 AM
I certainly don't mean to "lose my head", however I bring you more parody and - Allah forbid - humor.
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/4/21/129163893842766182.jpg
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/4/21/129163888892422000.jpg
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/4/21/129163890456963263.jpg
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/4/21/129163901214688362.jpg
Today's Special: Visit the US and ride with Captain America for half price!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWhgLjim6Rc&feature=related
:DL
Jimbuna
04-22-10, 04:31 AM
I'm with Jim on this one. It was the likes of the Spice Girls that spurned the Pussy Cat Dolls. :rock::D I always wondered what happend to Stinky Bum Spice. LOL :O:
LOL...my favourite...Old Spice :O:
http://content.artofmanliness.com/uploads/2009/02/old-spice.jpg
Blood_splat
04-22-10, 08:23 AM
Just another stupid religion bringing our species down.
don't you mean "piece" such as "you in pieces" (not you tater, in general?):D
It's a gag based on the BS we heard after 911 that Islam means peace and was hijacked.
Islam in fact means "submission" or "submission to god."
Call me a brown shirt if you want, but i think people like that need to be rounded up, and deported to a country outside of CONUS. Period.
Well, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups#Largest_religions_or_belief _systems_by_number_of_adherents), there's about 1,300,000,000 to 1,600,000,000 people to tolerate.
I'm fine with reciprocal tolerance. They can walk around in hijab and buqua as long as foreigners can walk around in miniskirts in their countries (not you of course, no one wants to see that :) ).
I'm still concerned about basic doctrine that is not in dispute, even by the most "moderate" Muslims, however. Apostasy has the required punishment of death. The most moderate response (from a super moderate Imam) was that we need not worry, because death for apostasy is not practical---not undesirable, but impractical. Yeesh.
That doesn't mean that all Muslims murder all apostates, but it's there, as a desired punishment---and where they have absolute power, it frequently becomes law.
Live and let live but screw with my SECULAR government, and you should be in deep doo doo. Other fundies in the US are roundly abused, but the Muslims get a pass for some reason. IMHO it should always be open season on idiotic belief systems.
Spoon 11th
04-22-10, 08:14 PM
Original post from revolutionmuslim com:
"The episode went beyond just showing him, but it outright insulted him, salaa Allahu 'alayhi wa salam, by showing him in a bear suit and making fun of our beloved Nabi, salaa Allahu 'alayhi wa salam."
Well it turned out that inside the costume was santa claus. Pretty smart. Bet they anticipated the reactions. Did this make (radical) muslims look stupid? Sure did. Amongst 700 trillion other things.
Castout
04-22-10, 08:19 PM
@Tater
Hey what's with the notion idiotic belief systems.
If you're one of those atheists who seem to hate people with beliefs different that yours then you're being part of the problem and what's the difference between that and the Muslim fundamentalists who hate and threaten anybody else?
Pay respect to other people and be tolerable to other people's belief.
conus00
04-22-10, 08:41 PM
@Tater
Hey what's with the notion idiotic belief systems.
If you're one of those atheists who seem to hate people with beliefs different that yours then you're being part of the problem and what's the difference between that and the Muslim fundamentalists who hate and threaten anybody else?
Pay respect to other people and be tolerable to other people's belief.
Idiotic belief is any religion which threatens all infidels with capital punishment (death) for their lack of belief.
What tater is tying to say has nothing with disrespect, he is merely pointing this fact out.
As far as I am concerned any member of any religion which deals in absolutes and, sometimes purposefully, skews their icon (in this case Koran) to threat and carry deadly and cowardly attacks against humankind should be singled out and its members have their human rights removed.
I would be interested to know how big percentage of Muslims are actually radical....
krashkart
04-22-10, 09:21 PM
which threatens all infidels with capital punishment (death) for their lack of belief.
:up:
Capital punishment not only for lack of belief, but for the infidels having a sense of humor they (the extreme haters) cannot understand - or simply cannot/will not tolerate. Must be a very miserable existence they lead. :-?
A belief system is nothing more than a set of ideas that one CHOOSES to believe.
Some are brilliant, some are just meh, others are idiotic.
Nazism is a belief system. Communism is as well. So is enlightened, classical liberalism (ie: Western Civilization).
Islam is another belief system characterized by literalism to an ancient story made up by illiterates who copied much of it from other such stories (some of which had been transcribed to texts). It contains wonderful ideas like treating women as lesser beings, murdering people who through enlightenment cease to believe, taxing people based on holding another belief system (only SOME people, others get to be slaves), etc.
I'm as tolerant of that as am am of any other, similarly goofy set of wrong-headed ideas—religious or non-religious.
Spoon 11th
04-22-10, 10:16 PM
From wikipedia:
According to the South Park Studios webpage, Comedy Central aurally censored episode "201" after delivery but before airing. The censored version bleeps out any mention of the word 'Muhammed', as well as entire speeches given by Kyle, Jesus and Santa at the end of the episode. The episode is not officially available online on South Park Studios because the studio does not have network clearance to air the unedited version. As of April 22, 2010, South Park Studios also no longer streams the episode "Super Best Friends", which portrayed a non-disguised image of Muhammed and had actually been available for streaming prior to the "201" controversy.
On the afternoon of April 22 the creators posted this statement to media outlets:
"In the 14 years we’ve been doing South Park we have never done a show that we couldn’t stand behind. We delivered our version of the show to Comedy Central and they made a determination to alter the episode. It wasn’t some meta-joke on our part. Comedy Central added the bleeps. In fact, Kyle’s customary final speech was about intimidation and fear. It didn’t mention Muhammad at all but it got bleeped too."
As a side note, after just watching ep. 200. Randy Marsh actually showed a depiction of prophet Muhammad in episode 200. But seems like the (radical) muslims somehow missed that. They were only angry about the bear suit.
Castout
04-22-10, 11:36 PM
A belief system is nothing more than a set of ideas that one CHOOSES to believe.
Some are brilliant, some are just meh, others are idiotic.
Nazism is a belief system. Communism is as well. So is enlightened, classical liberalism (ie: Western Civilization).
Islam is another belief system characterized by literalism to an ancient story made up by illiterates who copied much of it from other such stories (some of which had been transcribed to texts). It contains wonderful ideas like treating women as lesser beings, murdering people who through enlightenment cease to believe, taxing people based on holding another belief system (only SOME people, others get to be slaves), etc.
I'm as tolerant of that as am am of any other, similarly goofy set of wrong-headed ideas—religious or non-religious.
People most often worship their ideology be it religious or non religious while they should worship God alone.
This most often come in ways that see people worshiping their religion and religious or non religious establishment.
Religions don't save anyone NONE. Only God does. While non religious ideology is merely that an ideology, a compass which often strayed in practice.
I'm not saying that one should not love his own country but being fanatical is worse than being indifferent.
and I haven't even touched on the subject of people worshiping mere man.....that's probably the most disgusting practice that mankind has ever seen.
But some people seem to demand that people to worship them. They are usually the worst kind of people in mankind while they sprout words such as eugenics.,,haha the irony
Snestorm
04-23-10, 04:50 AM
As much as I realy dislike Southpark,
I dispise people telling others what they can or can't say, or think for that matter.
That goes for both Left AND Right.
Cartoon network bleeped even the WORD Muhammad in the 2d episode. Weak pieces of **** (a network decision entirely according to matt and trey).
BTW, the muhammad character has been shown on the show before, and no one cared, lol.
Sigh.
Makes me want to blaspheme that pedo Muhammad (yes, consummating a marriage with a 9 year old classifies you as a pedo in my book—sue me) on as many forums and blogs as possible, just as an exercise in free speech.
ggregoro
04-23-10, 09:43 PM
BEIRUT — A senior Iranian cleric says women who wear immodest clothing and behave promiscuously are to blame for earthquakes
http://livefeed.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/05/comedy-central-developing-jesus-christ-cartoon-series.html
Comedy Central planning on a Jesus cartoon. Wonder how many deaths result? LOL.
Bilge_Rat
05-06-10, 04:50 PM
since Neal declared this thread a free fire zone, does that mean "Ahmed & Salim" are allowed?
http://www.ahmedandsalim.com/?page=player&play=rXMIQDVOs98
:ahoy:
OneToughHerring
05-06-10, 04:58 PM
http://livefeed.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/05/comedy-central-developing-jesus-christ-cartoon-series.html
Comedy Central planning on a Jesus cartoon. Wonder how many deaths result? LOL.
You'd be surprised. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Temptation_of_Christ_%28film%29#Protests)
And that's just one example.
http://www.jesusandmo.net/strips/2009-06-09.jpg
http://www.jesusandmo.net/
You'd be surprised. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Temptation_of_Christ_%28film%29#Protests)
And that's just one example.
How many died again?
Oh yeah, zero. Gotcha. Looks like the only violence was in (of all places) FRANCE. LOL.
How about the crucifix in urine photo (Piss Christ)? Nope, no violence. Protests, but protest is FINE, as are boycotts—the market at work. Most of that protest revolved around the art being paid for by the government to the tune of $15,000. The Holy Virgin Mary with female genital images cut from porno mags? Nope, no violence there, either.
If you are going to compare, your Religion of PEace (Islam) benchmarks are:
Theo Van Gogh's murder for Submission. (And Ayaan Hirsi Ali's life under guard following that).
The Danish cartoons.
Salman Rushdie.
The list goes on. Note also the self-censorship of the idiotic, PC western press.
So for Christian art, find us some murders, or credible threats at least.
OneToughHerring
05-06-10, 05:22 PM
How many died again?
Oh yeah, zero. Gotcha. Looks like the only violence was in (of all places) FRANCE. LOL.
How about the crucifix in urine photo (Piss Christ)? Nope, no violence. Protests, but protest is FINE, as are boycotts—the market at work. Most of that protest revolved around the art being paid for by the government to the tune of $15,000. The Holy Virgin Mary with female genital images cut from porno mags? Nope, no violence there, either.
We've had cases of blasphemy where the offenders have served time in prisons here in Finland, not to mention the more poorer christian nations where stuff like killing gays etc. is very common. Haven't heard much if anything from the pope condemning any of that. He's too busy organising the acquittals of pedophile priests etc.
We've had cases of blasphemy where the offenders have served time in prisons here in Finland, not to mention the more poorer christian nations where stuff like killing gays etc. is very common. Haven't heard much if anything from the pope condemning any of that.
Wow, nothing personal, but I'd not live in a country where I could be jailed for blasphemy, that's, well, medieval. Heck, I'd not live someplace without explicit separation of church and state for the same reason. Creepy.
I'm not talking ancient history, think in the last decade or so (yes, I am well aware that the Catholic church was complicit in the Nazi regime, and never even excommunicated Hitler (a later pope excommunicated all commies with one signature, however, lol)).
We're talking about ART, and the population at large violently protesting because it is blasphemous.
OneToughHerring
05-06-10, 05:36 PM
Wow, nothing personal, but I'd not live in a country where I could be jailed for blasphemy, that's, well, medieval. Heck, I'd not live someplace without explicit separation of church and state for the same reason. Creepy.
I'm not talking ancient history, think in the last decade or so (yes, I am well aware that the Catholic church was complicit in the Nazi regime, and never even excommunicated Hitler (a later pope excommunicated all commies with one signature, however, lol)).
We're talking about ART, and the population at large violently protesting because it is blasphemous.
Yes, you'd rather live in place where the native population was purged only some 100 + years ago. I think that's creepy.
But yes, my country has religion but to say that there is no christianity in US society would be a lie. In god we trust etc.
What population is protesting against the South Park-thing? Wasn't it just bunch of guys somewhere posting something on the internet...kind of like us, eh? :)
Every country on earth exists because some people at some point banged whoever was there first over the head and took it from them. That's just life for violent Homo sapiens.
I'd be less worried about killing indians over 100 years ago than being an ally of nazi germany 70 years ago—the total death toll of native americans in the USA was only in the thousands, horrible as even that was (the bulk of deaths in the Americas (millions) happened from disease shortly after the Scandinavians and Spanish arrived). That said, both are not relevant to modern history, they are for this conversation "ancient history" with nothing to do with modern people.
As for Christianity in the US, that's true, but again, it is not mandated by the state, and every single time someone brings up even ridiculous claims of the state adopting religion, it gets struck down (the state religious stuff). Every time.
As an aside, examples from here in New Mexico are town seals (the town "logo") that have crosses on them—many dating back hundreds of years to the Spaniards. The funny one is for the town of Las Cruces (the crosses). It has crosses, lol. They want the crosses removed, but apparently not the NAME, heheh. If it goes to the State supreme court, it will be tried in our capital, Santa Fe (Holy Faith). Santa Fe is in the foothills of the Sangre de Christo mountains. LOL. Some stuff is just historical, and they (atheists) need to chill out (and I'm an atheist, myself).
SteamWake
05-06-10, 05:51 PM
Ya know I wasent gonna bring this up but the thread got necro'd. so..
It is a fact that the Times Square bomber set his 'bomb' right in front of Comedy Central. Now it may very well be that it was a convienent parking spot.
Yea I know... (dons tin foil)
YEah, I think I mentioned in that thread that the truck was in front of viacom.
OneToughHerring
05-06-10, 06:03 PM
Btw in front of what building was the McVeigh truck parked? That's right. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_P._Murrah_Federal_Building)
Btw in front of what building was the McVeigh truck parked? That's right. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_P._Murrah_Federal_Building)
What is your point, and how does this relate to Islamic terrorism in New York?
He attacked a Federal Building because he had a beef with the Federal Government. He was caught, and quite properly executed for his terrible crime.
OneToughHerring
05-06-10, 06:11 PM
What is your point, and how does this relate to Islamic terrorism in New York?
He attacked a Federal Building because he had a beef with the Federal Government. He was caught, and quite properly executed for his terrible crime.
Oh that's ok then to attack the federal government but not because of a religious motive which McVeigh 100% didn't have. What he did he did for the right reasons. I get it now.
Also his collaborators weren't tortured in order to obtain information that they refused to tell and have never told.
Foreign people are just that: foreign people.
They have their own beliefs and values and sensitivities and way of thinking etc etc.
There is nothing wrong with that, it's OK, IMHO.
why bother so much?
It's neither the first nor the last time that they find something is offensive, obscene etc.
Oh that's ok then to attack the federal government but not because of a religious motive which McVeigh 100% didn't have. What he did he did for the right reasons. I get it now.
Also his collaborators weren't tortured in order to obtain information that they refused to tell and have never told.
Terrorism is terrorism. I'd have had no problem with him interrogated the same way as islamists—if he was not a US citizen. As a US citizen (this times square guy, too) he deserves better treatment. Regardless, McVeigh was executed, remember? That's rather rougher than waterboarding.
The bottom line is that in the last 10 years there have been THOUSANDS of islamic terrorist events. The anti-federal American loon type? One.
You can always be relied on to post in favor of anyone who hates the US, I'm fine with that, it doesn't matter. The US is in a unique geopolitical position, and the world resents that.
CaptainHaplo
05-06-10, 07:51 PM
Foreign people are just that: foreign people.
They have their own beliefs and values and sensitivities and way of thinking etc etc.
There is nothing wrong with that, it's OK, IMHO.
why bother so much?
It's neither the first nor the last time that they find something is offensive, obscene etc.
Silver - there is no issue when they have their own opinion. There is however a problem when they try - in a country that isn't theirs - to use violence or the threat of violence (direct or implied) to force compliance with their views. As you put it - they are foreign people with foreign views - and if they don't like ours - they can take their foreign A$$e$ elsewhere. We have freedom of the press and freedom of speech, whether they like it or not.
OneToughHerring
05-07-10, 05:28 AM
Terrorism is terrorism. I'd have had no problem with him interrogated the same way as islamists—if he was not a US citizen. As a US citizen (this times square guy, too) he deserves better treatment. Regardless, McVeigh was executed, remember? That's rather rougher than waterboarding.
The bottom line is that in the last 10 years there have been THOUSANDS of islamic terrorist events. The anti-federal American loon type? One.
You can always be relied on to post in favor of anyone who hates the US, I'm fine with that, it doesn't matter. The US is in a unique geopolitical position, and the world resents that.
So torture is ok for non-Americans, well then by that logic non-Americans can torture Americans. Ok then.
Silver - there is no issue when they have their own opinion. There is however a problem when they try - in a country that isn't theirs - to use violence or the threat of violence (direct or implied) to force compliance with their views. As you put it - they are foreign people with foreign views - and if they don't like ours - they can take their foreign A$$e$ elsewhere. We have freedom of the press and freedom of speech, whether they like it or not.
Actually your freedom of speech and freedom of press are very limited indeed especially by western standards.
Foreigners? You're the foreigners. :D
Btw, you claimed in another post to be a priest? Or to have been a priest? Usually religious folks kind of hold together against the common enemy of non-religiousness. I guess you're the exception to that, a muslim-hating priest.
We've had cases of blasphemy where the offenders have served time in prisons here in Finland...
Very VERY rarely. I think the latest prison sentence was in 2000something and that involved hate speech aswell, not just blasphemy. I'd imagine that without the hate speech, he wouldn't have gone to jail.
@CaptainHaplo:
Basically you are right though a little bit extreme IMHO.
It's not entirely their fault.
Some blame should be apportioned to the politicians: (who else make laws?)
They haven't made it clear to these people that the country or place they wish
to live from now on is totally different than theirs and even worse,
it hasn't been founded and built having them in mind.
Occasionally they may find one or more (or all) things offensive, insulting etc.
they are 100% right but there is nothing that can be done about it.
Also what works and is OK in Greece, Greenland and England may not work elsewhere,
(countries and places are completely random, there is nothing wrong or negative
or special with them, just an example) and should they find the situation intolerable
then they should consider Sweeden and Sudan instead. (again, random)
A reply like: 'this is pretty obvious' is only marginally true, if at all.
That would be a fair deal (IMHO) to these people and prevent some of the problems that
emerge too frequently these days. South Park is one of these problems for now, next
month it will be something else.
Perhaps their actions make sense: they have the critical mass and they can influence politicians
and as a result they can get some (or a lot of) concessions, amendments etc. to their benefit.
Who wouldn't want to be re-elected?
CaptainHaplo
05-07-10, 06:02 AM
I think we are in agreement Silver. I admit I tend to come across a little on the forceful side. Its their choice to be offended - and they have the right. Its a matter of what they do with that feeling that matters. After all, blowing people up is kinda offensive to the rest of us, and I am sure the people that experience it don't care much for it.
As for politicians being responsible, I think its society as a whole really. After all, society is the one that has made political correctness into a science, as well as society is the one to blame for continuing to elect the morons.
By the way - welcome aboard!
So torture is ok for non-Americans, well then by that logic non-Americans can torture Americans. Ok then.
One, the GC is intentionally vague about what constitutes torture. US law is far more specific, and is still vague—giving someone a single BEER then questioning them is torture in US law (mind altering substance).
Regardless, if you want to come torture me, you're welcome to invade the US. I won't hold my breath.
Actually your freedom of speech and freedom of press are very limited indeed especially by western standards.
Freedom of the press in the US is pretty absolute. Rights are not granted by the State—if your rights are more explicit, it is because as a SUBJECT, you only have the rights given you by your masters. Or press freedom is NEGATIVE with respect to the government:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Congress can make no law even curtailing press freedom a little.
Foreigners? You're the foreigners. :D
Btw, you claimed in another post to be a priest? Or to have been a priest? Usually religious folks kind of hold together against the common enemy of non-religiousness. I guess you're the exception to that, a muslim-hating priest.
What? I'm an atheist. When religion comes up I say that here in virtually every thread. Actually, much of the time Hitchen's term anti-theist is more apropos. I never said any such thing. I have no dog in the religion fight. I disagree with all of them, and "hate" them only in proportion to their repressive reality. Islam is without question the worst major religion on earth in terms of repression. Women are property, and they've developed not one society on earth worth living in—whereas western, pluralistic democracy came about from within a Christian setting—even if in spite of it, nothing like that has managed to happen in spite of Islam.
SteamWake
05-07-10, 09:06 AM
Oh that's ok then to attack the federal government but not because of a religious motive which McVeigh 100% didn't have. What he did he did for the right reasons. I get it now.
Also his collaborators weren't tortured in order to obtain information that they refused to tell and have never told.
All I have to say to this is .... what the hell?
I grow so tired of folks bringing up McVeigh as if somehow its relevant.
Islam means "peace."
:har:It literally means "submission" :nope:
Everybody is entitled to believe in what he wants as long as he does not force me to embrace his belief. Too bad Islam explicity says otherwise, starting from the name itself down to the content of its sacred book.
Sometimes I look back at our histhory and wonder how men could turn even a peacful religion like Christianity into the blind, fanatical cult it was till the end of the 18th century. And then I realize it was all lust for power.
Same case here, different religion. Excpet that most of those who practice Islam still live in a intellectual "middle age", so no wonder their mindset is so different from ours and can be exploited by clever individuals.
Unfortunately, there's little that can be done. Big social changes must happens from within. Everything we will do, good or bad, will only radicalize their beliefs. Until theb, it's better not to let Islam spread to those countries which already broke free of religion because it will only damage our tenue social tissue based on human rights and respect for everyone. We're facing a culture that is not playing by our own rules.
It literally means "submission" :nope:
Yeah, I said that later (and also put the laughing smiley the first time ;) ).
OneToughHerring
05-07-10, 05:01 PM
All I have to say to this is .... what the hell?
I grow so tired of folks bringing up McVeigh as if somehow its relevant.
Terry Nichols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Nichols) had the info about everyone who was involved in the bombing but never gave up that info. Soo...why not a little torture to make him squel?
Terry Nichols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Nichols) had the info about everyone who was involved in the bombing but never gave up that info. Soo...why not a little torture to make him squel?
We don't torture. I'd argue that waterboarding is—while very close to the edge—within the gray zone of the GC. At the time the GC was signed it required reciprocity, AND virtually every signer at the time beat up suspects routinely (the police). The very first POW captured by the US in ww2 was interrogated with a loaded .45 pointed at his head, and with the naval base still burning, the likelihood of him getting shot was actually pretty good.
WRT McVeigh and Nichols, again, they are/were US CITIZENS. As a result, anything past simple questioning would be illegal. Heck, they were Mirandized.
So again, a US citizen has constitutional rights, regardless of what crap he did. Some Afghani, Egyptian, whatever? No rights past what the GC grants them—and IMHO it should be entirely reciprocal, meaning that if their country did not sign the GC, and they did not observe the GC, they deserve no protection from it at all. The US certainly behaved this way in WW2. The Japs neither signed, nor observed the GC. As a result, we summarily executed them, we gunned them down in life boats, we burned their cities to the ground.
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