Using FAR too MANY torpedoes!!!

[gazpode_l]

During all of my gaming either in single missions or campaign, I'm using far too many torpedoes. :damn:
I had something going a couple of week's ago where id gotten lucky with some small tramp steamers and had sunk them using 1 torpedo. :yeah:

Now it's taking me two to sink them and three or four to kill an medium cargo. (using GWX3 :up:)

Can people give me some tips on the ideal situation for torpedoes, where to aim impact pistol types and also the best depths for magnetic ones.

I'VE LOST MY TOUCH! :doh::damn:

[Iranon]

With impact torpedos, good places to hit them are under the smokestack (engine room) or slightly forward of it (fuel bunker, even better).
If you want to sink them by flooding rather than critical hits, I suggest hitting them close to bow or stern - bow in rough seas, stern in calm. A depth of around 3m should usually be fine, 4-5 for large ships. Draft -0.6m if you want to aim at the keel but I realy wouldn't recommend it in most cases, use magnetics for that.
Impact hits work most reliably at angles close to 90°.

For magnetic pistols, hit them amidships at draft +0.5m in calm and draft +0.8m in moderate seas. Angle on Bow isn't too important, but around 45% is good: the target presents enough of an... erm, target to not miss and the torpedo spends enough time under the ship to go off reliably.
There is no elegant solution for AoBs near 0 or 180° in rough weather.

Stick to the above and you should usually be able to sink most ships with 1 hit and the vast majority with 2.

[sergei]

Yep, pretty much what Iranon said.

I use impact pistols, set to 3 meters depth.
Ships over about 4000 tons get 2 eels from me. One aimed at the forward cargo hold. The other amidships, around the engine room.

9 times out of 10 this will take 'em down pretty quick :DL
(10 minutes or less)

[Immelman]

I avoid the magnetic pistol even in the late war years, I find it unreliable I always go for impact shots. I like to go deep with my eels just to the point where the hull curvature starts to be pronounced. So depending on the ship's hull I act accordingly. If its a Large merchant for instance that if memory serves has keel below the waterline of 8.9 meters I shoot for 5.5m depth in calm seas and 4.5m in rough weather. There is nothing worst then seeing an eel set on impact sail right under the ship due to a heavy swell so make sure to allow for this worst case scenario. It is a large tanker that once again if memory serves has depth of 11.7 I shoot for 7.5 in calm seas and 6.5 in rough.

Like I said make sure not aim lower then where the curvature of the hull becomes pronounced i.e. for a large merchant do not shoot your eel at 7m depth. Odds are that the hull is to curved and the eel will bounce off without exploding. :damn:

I find that this maximizes the flooding, sinking ships faster and with less required hits.

[Threesixtyci]

Magnetic will kill just about every ship with a single torp, but I'd avoid it in rough seas. 1 meter lower than the hull depth is what I usually set them to.

[Platapus]

I use impact pistols only.

Generally I assign at least 1 torpedo for every 3000-4000 tons. However that is not taking into account duds.

I feel it is better to err on the side of using more torpedoes. It is better to sink ships with more torpedoes than to miss ships and save torpedoes.

Any target worth expending one torpedo is worth expending two. :know:

[sharkbit]

Another thing too-with escorted ships/convoys, if you hit them with one or two eels and they don't sink, you may not get a second chance since the escort may keep you down too long.

Even unescorted, if they don't sink, they start zigging all over the place for a while. If you're submerged, it may difficult to get in position again. If they're armed, you may not want to surface and finish them with the deck gun. I've had too many bad experiences with armed merchants. :doh:

I'm like platapus-I tend to err on a pretty liberal sprinkling of torpedoes to ensure a kill.

:)

[gazpode_l]

Hey guys
I've been reading with interest ALL the responses about the differing methods used by the community (well yourselves anyway) when shooting torpedoes.

Last night I had a go at the naval academy mission on torpedoes and played it through. I took out the medium cargo first, using three torpedoes, set for 5m running depth and impact pistols.

I had limited success with a tramp steamer i went after, hit with 1 torpedo, told by the game i'd killed him, though he hung around for another 20-30 mins before he slipped beneath the waves.

Then things began to get really spectacular as I ran after a small tanker, caught up with him and nailed him, first blow, smack in the middle. Now I'm sure I nailed him with an impact torpedo, but the damage profile (shown below) means I cld have used a magnetic
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii66/gazpode_l/Silent%20Hunter%203/SH3Img21-4-2010_11458_338.jpg

Chuffed to bits, I turned away and began running on the surface at flank speed to catch a nearby freighter, medium size....I caught up with him, but hearing all the noise I'd been causing he was zigzagging.

I shot a torpedo at him and missed. I was running low on torps so angrily I configured both my remaining torpedoes I had loaded for fast running and imact pistols and let both go as quickly as a could..First was on target and did alot of damage - the firework show had barely died when the second hit....KABLOOEY!!
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii66/gazpode_l/Silent%20Hunter%203/SH3Img21-4-2010_12821_307.jpg

I've not seen one go up like that in game with my own eyes - seen it done over the web in videos and screenshots but really nice to do it myself.

All in all, your tips are working great guys, and for that - I'm truely greatful! :()1:

[Immelman]

Glad to hear its working out for you :up:

No go out there and sink some real merchants and make us proud :arrgh!:

[desirableroasted]

And remember that the "faulty magnetic pistols" and "depthkeeping problems" are apparently not modeled in the game.

Your magnetics, of course, may prematurely detonate in rough weather because they "leap," and finding the right keel depth is harder in rough weather.

[pickinthebanjo]

In SH3 I Only limit myself to using one torpedo to one ship, and only ships 4000+ tons. If called for I use a second but normally I will wait around for up to 12 hours to wait and see if she sinks. For merchants under 4000 ton I use the 105mm and the 37mm. Also I only take shots on moving targets if they are within 800m and the AOB is close to either 270 or 90. In response to Iranon's post stating that ships with an AOB of 0 or 180 have no viable solution, that is wrong. In order to hit a target with an AOB of wither 0 or 180 you slip in behind or in front of the target set range slightly shorter than needed (to make up for the fact the ship is closing fast) set you AOB accordingly then fire. Speed is irrelevant in this case because the target is on the same course. I disable many ships with 180 AOB shots, as the torpedo almost always destroys the propulsion systems.

Even a battleship can be sunk with just one torpedo:
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/9578/89713066.png
Both the Southhamptons went under in one torpedo, that London class took three.

When attacking merchants, follow everyones advice and aim by the smokestack or just in front of the bridge. For naval ships, aim underneath the main guns. These are the ammunition stores.

When I use keel shots I aim for the center of the ship and set them just under the draft.

In the Type IX it is usually fairly common for me to pull in 60000ton patrols following these guidelines.

[Immelman]

In SH3 I Only limit myself to using one torpedo to one ship, and only ships 4000+ tons.

Umm ok but if it happens to be a dud you will want to hit your head against the bulkhead :damn: unless its a single contact where you can easily reposition for another shot.

If its a convoy you just blew your attack and have nothing to show for it = :damn: Now you have to evade DDs break contact run parallel to the convoy reestablish contact sneak in again without being detected reformulate your firing solution and hope to remain undetected long enough to fire.

As the war progresses this becomes more and more difficult. My advice is get it right the first time and fire two eels at worthy targets. If my stern eel bounces off that tramp steamer not biggy. But if I get greedy and decide to only fire one eel at that Large Tanker (when I have more eels on board) and it turns out to be a dud :x :damn::damn::damn:

I can't even blame that on Bernard I did it to myself, I got greedy... :nope:

[sharkbit]

For merchants under 4000 ton I use the 105mm and the 37mm.

Wait till those dastardly allies start arming their merchants and they start shooting back, quite accurately I might add. :O:
There's a reason I removed my deck gun from my Med career boat in mid 1943. Now the temptation to shoot "defenseless" merchantmen is not even there. :03:

If its a convoy you just blew your attack and have nothing to show for it = :damn: Now you have to evade DDs break contact run parallel to the convoy reestablish contact sneak in again without being detected reformulate your firing solution and hope to remain undetected long enough to fire.


I agree with Immelman here. You can spend alot of time setting up on a convoy only to see it wasted and having to start over. I try for a sure kill. (What's the saying about a bird in the hand?)
Later in the war, you might get lucky to even get in shooting position on a convoy before an escort picks you up and hedgehogs start raining down on you.
I've hit ships with one eel early on and watched them sail out of sight while I'm dodging destroyers for the next few hours, where two eels might have done the trick. I've tried the "one torpedo, one ship", ala Kretschmer, early on and it works, but as time progresses, it becomes more and more difficult. I've had to adapt my tactics as the war progresses.

:)

[Immelman]

There's a reason I removed my deck gun from my Med career boat in mid 1943. Now the temptation to shoot "defenseless" merchantmen is not even there.

I agree that the temptation to use the deck gun is quite great and one must show restraint and control over the need to sink everything without wasting eels. I personally use the Deck Gun only on ships under 3000 tons or ships that are still floating after having been torpedoed.

I have successfully used the aforementioned manner with great success all the way to the end of the war in my last career. The trick is to not push your luck knowing when to break off and knowing how to position your boat giving you maximum advantage over the enemy.

Its the same approach as the Fast 90 torpedo attack really. Position your self infront of the projected ships course (in a perpendicular angle) from one to three km away depending on visibility and sea conditions. This will present the smallest possible target of your ship to the enemy while the inverse is true for your enemy. At all times even when zigzagging you will have a minimum 45 AOB to aim your shots at.

Surface and proceed to ahead slow when the ship is 5 to 10 degrees bearing from 0.
Lob shell on it until the ship is 5 to 10 degrees bearing past bearing 0.
Submerge and reposition as described above.
Lather, rinse, repeat until the ship is sunk.
Try to blow up everything on her deck i.e. cargo, masts, smoke stacks etc and then aim the rest of your shots on the waterline.

This gives you the best possible firing angle the whole time while it gives the worst firing angle to the sip on your sub. You can inflict maximal damage while you minimize the amount of damage you receive. If you don't see what I mean then look for your Uboat from the ship's deck you will see how hard you are to spot if you position this way. Sometimes all you see is a speck of light when your deck gun is fired. :rock:

[pickinthebanjo]

I have successfully used the aforementioned manner with great success all the way to the end of the war in my last career. The trick is to not push your luck knowing when to break off and knowing how to position your boat giving you maximum advantage over the enemy.


Yeah I agree, I use the 88mm for the start of the war sinking everything I don't want to waste a torpedo on, then when the merchants arm themselves I switch to the 105mm and start firing from longer ranges and washed out decks. It gets difficult and you tend to miss more but you can still sink ships with the deck gun all the way to 45'.

And for the others:
Yeah when I get a dud it sucks but I don't beat myself up over it, you just fire another at some other ship. A Type VII carries around 12 torpedoes inside, thats plenty of chances right there:doh: I use a Type IX which carries tons of torpedoes, when I spend time attacking a convoy I get it right, if I miss or get a dud I just move on to the next ship. My patrols seem to stand for themselves.

And in general I give up surface attacks fairly early on (1941-1942) and just get in the convoys path and let it come to me. This mean I just have to sit broadside to the convoy lanes as they pass over, giving plenty of chances to make 90 or 270 degree shots. If I mess up I just dive and call it off, no harm done cause I did not have to calculate anything.

[Lord_magerius]

There is no such thing a using too many torps :DL If it takes six to take down an intermediate tanker, then use six. Well that's the excuse I use to have my crew home for christmas. :D
"i'm sorry herr Donitz, but that fishing trawler required 8 eels broadside. I know it seems suspicous, seeing as we've arrived back on christmas eve but that's the truth of it sir" :arrgh!:

[Immelman]

I play with map contact off so its a b@@@@ and a half plotting the heading of the convoy and all its rows of ships and then getting a firing solution manually to feed the TDC.

Missing because I messed up my observations is understandable. Sometimes I get lucky and hit a ship in the next row.
But missing because of a dud is unacceptable to me so I shoot salvos of 2 eels. There is not right or wrong way its just what your expectations are.

[Platapus]

And remember that the "faulty magnetic pistols" and "depthkeeping problems" are apparently not modeled in the game.


Is this true with GWX????????????? :06:

[pickinthebanjo]

There is no such thing a using too many torps :DL If it takes six to take down an intermediate tanker, then use six. Well that's the excuse I use to have my crew home for christmas. :D
"i'm sorry herr Donitz, but that fishing trawler required 8 eels broadside. I know it seems suspicous, seeing as we've arrived back on christmas eve but that's the truth of it sir" :arrgh!:

:har: Yeah I confess to doing that to. Occasionally to end a patrol early i'll dump a salvo into something and watch the fireworks.

[pickinthebanjo]

Is this true with GWX????????????? :06:

Not to sure about the magnetic pistol but the depth keeping is unhistorical.
Those torpedoes run at the very decimal you set them to (99% sure)
In storms they seem to run worse but really it's just that the ship your attacking is rocking up and down, the torpedo still seems to run at the set depth:nope:

Maybe someone can mod that so that every now and then you get one running way deeper than you set.

[pickinthebanjo]

I play with map contact off so its a b@@@@ and a half plotting the heading of the convoy and all its rows of ships and then getting a firing solution manually to feed the TDC.

Missing because I messed up my observations is understandable. Sometimes I get lucky and hit a ship in the next row.
But missing because of a dud is unacceptable to me so I shoot salvos of 2 eels. There is not right or wrong way its just what your expectations are.

I never really learned how to properly plot a convoy, thats why I attack from the front. Do you know of any tutorials for that or is it something you just pick up? I've been trying all sorts of ways of plotting latley and I'm getting better but If I had to plot a convoy over more than 200km I would lose it for sure.

[Snestorm]

I only use impact. Generaly 3 torpedoes for the big stuff. 1 torpedo for the small stuff. 2 torpedoes for a little tanker.

It may sound excessive but, even with everything hitting target, I'm still finding ships that simply refuse to sink.

Even customized a 3 torpedo spread on a T2 Tanker.
Opened the spread up to 5 degrees.
All 3 hit. Nose, Tail, and Center.
It was hours before she finaly fell out of the convoy, and required a final stern torpedo to finish the job.

[pickinthebanjo]

Those damn tankers are tough, Those whaling ships are surprisingly weak. I've also gotten large merchants in one torpedo but I was pretty surprised.

[Iranon]

In response to Iranon's post stating that ships with an AOB of 0 or 180 have no viable solution, that is wrong. In order to hit a target with an AOB of wither 0 or 180 you slip in behind or in front of the target set range slightly shorter than needed (to make up for the fact the ship is closing fast) set you AOB accordingly then fire.

Keep in mind that I also specified rough weather, by which I meant sea state rather than visibility.
I wasn't referring to aiming problems but the reliability of turning a correctly aimed torpedo into an explosion. The sea state makes the magnetic setting unreliable, the AoB isn't kind to the impact one.

Also I only take shots on moving targets if they are within 800m and the AOB is close to either 270 or 90I don't quite get this in context of the rest of your post, especially...

I disable many ships with 180 AOB shots, as the torpedo almost always destroys the propulsion systems.It's definitely possible to sink ships in any sea state from any angle. However, for minimising duds and marginal hits, I'd try to manoever towards a 90°/270° impact shot in rough seas.
Would you recommend otherwise? If you think 0°/180° is as reliable with high waves complicating things, which depth and detonator setting would you recommend, under which constraints?

*

On another note, does a hit in the fuel bunker take into account whether a ship is powered by coal or oil? From my experience it's a great place to hit regardless.

[gazpode_l]

I never really learned how to properly plot a convoy, thats why I attack from the front. Do you know of any tutorials for that or is it something you just pick up? I've been trying all sorts of ways of plotting latley and I'm getting better but If I had to plot a convoy over more than 200km I would lose it for sure.

there are some great, if not quite advanced plotting stuff on the newbie sections. I'll go browsing and drop the link in here shortly. :up:

It WILL however require a bit of reading and is taxing even for me who has completed his sailing day skipper shore course (which involves alot of CHART work - which is basically what the tutorial is :o :yeah:)

[gazpode_l]

For "pickinthebanjo"

Some great information shown here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88961

Also in the example pictures, the guy clearly has map tool help turned on, so don't forget to select this.

[gazpode_l]

The OTHER thing to remember is that alot of the firing and calculation based to get into the position required is done using manual imputs and calculation towards the TDC. Will be slightly different if you are using automatic, as I sometimes do.

[pickinthebanjo]

Last night I finally learned how to use that nonograph (I think I got that right)
Seems simple enough

[pickinthebanjo]

It's definitely possible to sink ships in any sea state from any angle. However, for minimising duds and marginal hits, I'd try to manoever towards a 90°/270° impact shot in rough seas.
Would you recommend otherwise? If you think 0°/180° is as reliable with high waves complicating things, which depth and detonator setting would you recommend, under which constraints?

*

On another note, does a hit in the fuel bunker take into account whether a ship is powered by coal or oil? From my experience it's a great place to hit regardless.

Yeah about that moving ships quote, I should have rephrased that. I meant to say that I usually try to position myself to either side of the target and go for a 90 or 270 degree shot, sometimes you don't have the time though. (I said moving ships, because I attack alot of harbors and see lots of docked ships

Anyways in bad weather I set the torpedo to run fast and shallow (like 1m and on Impact in storms) and yeah the side shots are ideal but if you set them shallow enough you "should" be able to get just as good results with a 0 or 180 degree shot.
I have set them to deep where they bounced off and then struck it again though this is rare. Works good for closing warships. But be careful cause I took out two american merchants in early 40' like this cause they were deep in British waters and all I knew was that it was a ship at 0 degrees on the hydrophones so I fired two torpedoes at it and like 5 min later It sunk and I found out it was neutral

Yeah I don't know about that fuel bunker question, but Yeah unless it's a warship I always go for that spot. In warships I go for the forward magazine.

In a storm Always set it to Impact